How to report practicum site

[hamsterpants]

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Hello Y'all,

Any ideas of how to report an externship site that you believe is operating unethically? I have already notified my program but I feel the need to do more.

hp

 

[Pragma]

It might depend on what they are doing- i.e, systematic vs. situational. I'd imagine a situation would depend on the individuals involved, while a systematic issue could be more complex.

 

[hamsterpants]

Yeah, it's systematic.

 

[Pragma]

Yeah, it's systematic.

Then are there any more details that you can provide? Complaints to a program are definitely one step because they can cut ties.

 

[hamsterpants]

They are working on it. I do have a kick-ass program because they are investigating this seriously. But I have become interested in the big picture and bringing light to this issue.

Currently, there is not a procedure for students to submit grievances or complaints about externship sites. Externships exist as a way for doctoral students to gain necessary hours for internship and additional clinical training. However, some practicum sites exploit this opportunity for unpaid skilled labor.

This site bound externs to a certain number of hours and they were not allowed to "resign" until they met this quota, a form of "indentured servitude". The number of hours had to be met even if the extern was mistreated, promised educational opportunities that did not materialize, or circumstances arose that made completing the full quota unreasonable. I had a verbally abusive supervisor who spoke negatively about other externs in my presence. I did report her to the site but she had left by that time. Even after she left, I was not given adequate supervision or the didactics promised. It was ultimately me, alone on an inpatient unit. My mentor thought about pulling me out but I loved the patients and I felt I could work things out and that it would get better.

Unfortunately, other graduate students were afraid to speak up, especially those from programs that did not have strong internship match rates (not me) as they might hope to match at the practicum site for internship. Other students notified their graduate programs but their concerns were brushed aside (not me) because the programs wish to maintain "cordial" relationships with the practicum site. Some may feel that because they had to serve as free labor for this "rite of passage", upcoming students should as well.

Recently, there has been a lot of press about unpaid internships in various fields:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/nyregion/unpaid-interns-gain-the-right-to-sue.html?_r=0.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/opinion/good-steps-against-unpaid-internships.html

This issue should have similar traction.

 

[Pragma]

They are working on it. I do have a kick-ass program because they are investigating this seriously. But I have become interested in the big picture and bringing light to this issue.

Currently, there is not a procedure for students to submit grievances or complaints about externship sites. Externships exist as a way for doctoral students to gain necessary hours for internship and additional clinical training. However, some practicum sites exploit this opportunity for unpaid skilled labor.

This site bound externs to a certain number of hours and they were not allowed to "resign" until they met this quota, a form of "indentured servitude". The number of hours had to be met even if the extern was mistreated, promised educational opportunities that did not materialize, or circumstances arose that made completing the full quota unreasonable. I had a verbally abusive supervisor who spoke negatively about other externs in my presence. I did report her to the site but she had left by that time. Even after she left, I was not given adequate supervision or the didactics promised. It was ultimately me, alone on an inpatient unit. My mentor thought about pulling me out but I loved the patients and I felt I could work things out and that it would get better.

Unfortunately, other graduate students were afraid to speak up, especially those from programs that did not have strong internship match rates (not me) as they might hope to match at the practicum site for internship. Other students notified their graduate programs but their concerns were brushed aside (not me) because the programs wish to maintain "cordial" relationships with the practicum site. Some may feel that because they had to serve as free labor for this "rite of passage", upcoming students should as well.

Recently, there has been a lot of press about unpaid internships in various fields:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/nyregion/unpaid-interns-gain-the-right-to-sue.html?_r=0.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/opinion/good-steps-against-unpaid-internships.html

This issue should have similar traction.

If your site is a part of a saturated grad program market then there may be a local group to report to. Otherwise, let me think of other ideas and report back.

 

[eremitestar]

Unfortunately, other graduate students were afraid to speak up, especially those from programs that did not have strong internship match rates (not me) as they might hope to match at the practicum site for internship.

If the site is also an internship site, you may be able to make a report to APPIC and/or the APA (if it's an APA-accredited site). If the problems are that egregious and systemic, they may be bleeding over into the internship program as well.

 

[MCParent]

This site bound externs to a certain number of hours and they were not allowed to "resign" until they met this quota, a form of "indentured servitude". The number of hours had to be met even if the extern was mistreated, promised educational opportunities that did not materialize, or circumstances arose that made completing the full quota unreasonable. I had a verbally abusive supervisor who spoke negatively about other externs in my presence. I did report her to the site but she had left by that time. Even after she left, I was not given adequate supervision or the didactics promised. It was ultimately me, alone on an inpatient unit. My mentor thought about pulling me out but I loved the patients and I felt I could work things out and that it would get better.

I'm a bit confused. Maybe you want to be vague (which I understand) but it seems like the only "ethical" thing listed is inadequate supervision. And then, are you sure it's actually under the numerical amounts required by your program, inadequate to deal with prac scope of practice and type of patients, etc? Prac sites can have weak supervision, hire or be run by jerks, etc., without being *unethical*.

 

[hamsterpants]

I'm a bit confused. Maybe you want to be vague (which I understand) but it seems like the only "ethical" thing listed is inadequate supervision. And then, are you sure it's actually under the numerical amounts required by your program, inadequate to deal with prac scope of practice and type of patients, etc? Prac sites can have weak supervision, hire or be run by jerks, etc., without being *unethical*.

What I find unethical is the ability of sites to hold externs to a certain numbers of hours. Maybe it's 10+ years in corporate America but I cannot imagine a job where you are not allowed to give notice "no matter what". Because you signed a contract before beginning. and you are not even being paid. But this is all legal and a-ok. wtf!

It is unethical (in my global world view, not necessarily in the terms of the super ethical APA) that there is no procedure for students to submit grievances or complaints about externship sites.

No one should be able to force you to work for them. for no pay. This is involuntary servitude.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Practicum is a supervised experience and not the same as paid employment. They can't pay you and you don't have all of the benefits of payed employees.

The normal process is to schedule a meeting with clinical training director and they will talk with practicum supervisor. If you are having issue you could change practicum sites. I don't believe you can file an ethical complaint unless they are breaking ethical codes or are harming you or client's.

Practicum supervisor may often question your performance and provide criticism to help you learn and gain competence. Just some may not have tact and come off like marine boot camp officers and get in your face and raise their voice and sometimes practicum students need such interactions.

If you file a complaint without just cause you could end up in creating career suicide so go through the proper route by discussing with DCT first.

 

[Pragma]

I'm not sure the "contract" is always legally defensible in these cases. People do leave practicum sites or get pulled by their schools sometimes. I'm not sure there is a lot of actual legal action, maybe the threat of it to help coerce people into staying.

In areas where externs do get paid, there may be some differences

 

[hamsterpants]

My DCT is well aware of the situation and supports me 100%. I had multiple meetings with the practicum site and was not allowed to "resign". There were no legal threats but other forms of coercion which I will not go into detail about here. When I finally left after being there for one full year (they required that I stay an extra month to hit my hours target), the practicum director sent a nasty email to my DCT about my unprofessionalism. Luckily, I have received multiple commendations for my professionalism from my school. The site also said they would not officially document my hours (which I know my DCT can do without them). Other externs were not so lucky and their DCTs were not supportive. My biggest mistake was giving into their coercion and empty threats and not leaving the first month.

I know this is legally ok and other practicum sites do this but I think things need to change. Practicums are in a position of power over externs (much like teachers over students, employers over employees) and there needs to be explicit structures outside the practicum site to protect externs and to investigate potential abuses (as there are for teachers and employers). I'm not saying what they did was technically illegal or unethical according to the APA but it could have been much worse. My situation has largely been resolved (thanks to my awesome DCT) but others will not be so lucky in the future. I cannot just ignore this because it may no longer affect me directly. I think there is a gap here that needs to addressed. I have recently received emails from other students (not from my site) after I posted on a student listserv.

This may make me unpopular but I am on a research track with my own grant funding and a decent publication record so I'm in a stronger position than someone who wants to do clinical work and may want to work in an inpatient hospital like my site. Other externs at my site were in that situation and were worried about being blackballed (formally or informally) from other similar hospitals (the hospital is part of a huge managed care network) if they spoke up about anything.

I think my initial post was so vague as to be misleading. I am not as concerned with the actual behavior by my site or the "tough love" practiced by some sites (but it's for our own good, right?), but that there isn't a larger system (as there is for internship) in place to protect externs, to investigate potential abuses, or to allow externs to resign if the situation becomes intolerable.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Practicum is a formalized learning experience under supervision. I had three year long practicums, one was not so good but other two went well. Personality factors often determine relationship with supervisors and I did well with older experience supervisor but not so well with young early career supervisor. Chalk it up as a learning experience and move on is my recommendation. To file a complaint could open up a hornets nest and reflect negative on yourself and your program.

I remember a number of years ago some interns filed a complaints with the Board of Psychologist about some minor concerns with a internship site due to receiving bad evaluations from their internship supervisor. They actually passed but there was a ripple effect as a number of psychologist decided to not accept interns from the specific program based on students filling complaints to the psychology board, and this had negative influence for future students.

There are no perfect practicum or internships and you ought to be thankful of having the opportunity at that practicum site.

Clearly, it could have been a bad match for you but others may have been a good match. It appear you became tangled in a power struggle and of course your supervisor was offended that you wanted to leave early and was not willing to authorize hours or write recommendations. Now that it is done, just move on and use this as a learning experience for when you are supervising practicum students in the future.

 

[cara susanna]

Honestly, I have wondered about practica as they relate to the blowback against "unpaid internships." I know that practica is how we learn, but it does seem like some sites exploit prac students and use them as cheap labor without providing a lot of training and supervision.

 

[Ollie123]

To me, there is a distinction between someone working 5-20 hours/week (practica) vs. 40-60 hours/week (internship). Though for what its worth, my program generally had an expectation that at the upper end (15-20 hours) students should be paid. Seems to have shifted somewhat over the years as things tightened up, but there are still a number of such opportunities. I never did more than 10 hours/week at an unpaid site, but also took a longer time to get through the program so wasn't as desperate for hours.

Save for the lack of supervision, I'm not sure there is really an ethics complaint that can be made here - nor am I certain what recourse could/should exist in this situation. I think OneNeuroDoc's statement that "You should be thankful for the opportunity" is pretty disgusting, though not terribly surprising. It certainly sounds like a horrible environment to me and one that was a departure from what you signed up for. I'm just not sure what could be done other than schools no longer allowing them to take students, since I'm not sure anything rises to legal/ethical complaints. In my eyes, you are a volunteer. Part of your decision to work there may be motivated out of the goodness of your heart (what likely contributes to all of us entering the field in the first place), but also because you expect to derive some sort of educational benefit from it. I think that (within reason) when a site fails to provide that, practicum students should be free to leave.

Its good that your program backed you up. I know mine certainly would have done so too. They have "unapproved" prac sites for things like you describe before or for doing things that were incongruent with the program model or just generally sketchy. To my mind, this should be something it is up to schools to police. It is actually one of the issues I frequently bring up in the prof school debates here...my impression is that many of them foist these abusive situations upon their students just because one can't be too picky while trying to place 300 students a year. A colleague at one prac site had done anotherpracticum where all she did was serve as a secretary for someone's private practice....and the school allowed that. Had it been my program, I'd have been out of there in a week, another practicum would have been found or created, the site banned from taking other students and potentially other consequences (no more referrals, trashed reputation). Issues with practicum sites can certainly happen in all programs, but my general impression (and based on what I heard from the prac students in my area) was that tolerance for it was far higher among students from certain schools.

And yeah...not a lawyer, but I can't imagine any court in the nation upholding a contract mandating continued unpaid employment against your will. They probably wouldn't force the site to sign off on your hours, give you a letter of rec, adjust your grades, etc. (things that in my view, should all be handled by the school) but I'm about as certain as can be that any attempts to enforce a contract to require you to continue working there would be laughed out of court.

 

[erg923]

There are no perfect practicum or internships and you ought to be thankful of having the opportunity at that practicum site.

Is providing training some kind of favor they are doing for you?

I am confused why you think a student should tolerate abusive and/or unethical practice because its a training site...as if they are bending over backwards and doing you the extra favor of actually training you to do the thing that the program was created for in the first place. Complete silliness from you, as usual.

 

[hamsterpants]

Practicum is a formalized learning experience under supervision. I had three year long practicums, one was not so good but other two went well. Personality factors often determine relationship with supervisors and I did well with older experience supervisor but not so well with young early career supervisor. Chalk it up as a learning experience and move on is my recommendation. To file a complaint could open up a hornets nest and reflect negative on yourself and your program.

I remember a number of years ago some interns filed a complaints with the Board of Psychologist about some minor concerns with a internship site due to receiving bad evaluations from their internship supervisor. They actually passed but there was a ripple effect as a number of psychologist decided to not accept interns from the specific program based on students filling complaints to the psychology board, and this had negative influence for future students.

There are no perfect practicum or internships and you ought to be thankful of having the opportunity at that practicum site.

Clearly, it could have been a bad match for you but others may have been a good match. It appear you became tangled in a power struggle and of course your supervisor was offended that you wanted to leave early and was not willing to authorize hours or write recommendations. Now that it is done, just move on and use this as a learning experience for when you are supervising practicum students in the future.

I got along well with my 3 supervisor(s) except for the one who left (who got along with nobody, hence the leaving). There was no power struggle and I received very positive evaluations. One of my supervisors will write me a letter of rec. I'm going into last year so I'm no strange to practicum experience.

I did not try to leave early but I did try to leave on time without staying to "make up" hours I don't need. I did have some issues with the site but this isn't just about my experience.

My main concern is with the big picture: students having no recourse against being used as free labor with little in exchange (I'm not talking about most sites here). There is too much chance for bait and switch where sites promise one thing and then you get there and it is another thing. This is why many employers have probation periods, there are trying you out and you are trying them out, as each may not be what they seem during the interview.

This is not about supervisors yelling at practicum students (though I personally do not think it's the best way to instruct and I would not want to work there), my issue is that the student would not be able to leave. I'm not saying students should be able to leave whenever they choose but that there should be some impartial larger body providing oversight. I don't see why it should be like this for internship but not externship and why my suggestion is so surprising. I think it is at least worth discussion. Sigh.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

In my program, students sign up for credit (P/F) when doing a practicum, even if its an external practicum. The TD confirms with the external practicum to make sure that the student passed. Sometimes, the TD would actually have to provide the supervision if it was a new external practicum of no qualified supervisors were available. If a student ever had a problem with the administration of their external practicum they could always come to the TD for assistance. If the TD agrees that the practicum is not meeting their end of the agreement, the only ramifications are grades. which are controlled by the TD. Meaning, all the power is with the grad program and not the external site.

However, no one was every forced to work anywhere. TDs are responsible to assist students in taking care of such issues. It seems your TD did that exact job. This will serve as a sign to prevent other students in your program from doing that practicum. I think many (if not all) programs in their lifetime have experienced a poor external practicum. The goal is to not repeat those mistakes.

I think you are also concerned for students from other programs that do not have the same ability to advocate for themselves or have advocacy from their programs. This is a real shame. However, its a byproduct of program quality. A lot of the posters on this forum are in favor of increased standards for training programs. Additionally, students are allowed to provide their feedback to accreditation committees. Most students get a chance to do so since accreditation comes in at most 7 year cycles.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Hello Y'all,
Any ideas of how to report an externship site that you believe is operating unethically? I have already notified my program but I feel the need to do more.

FWIW, you could just email all the training programs in your area and tell them your experience. That is about all the "reporting" you need to do since its only used by local programs and there is no oversight for external practica aside from each individual program.