Prac Site Guidance/suggestions

[The Cinnabon]

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Hello all, since this site pretty consistently gives solid advice I'd figure I'd run by some prac offerings I'll be able to choose from and see which is most likely to bolster my eventual internship application. I'll keep it short and sweet.

Current Internship Goals: "Researchy" VA (or AMC) internship, ideally with good PTSD experience. For context my own PI doesn't have much exposure to the VA, so I've been doing a lot of my homework on what training directors may be looking for, etc.

Sites to pick from this year:

Community Mental Health In-house clinic - Am currently here already. Good experience and a solid supervisor. More child hours than I'd like. I'm leaning against this option in order to diversify training experiences.

University Counseling Center - Offers good outreach opportunities and I enjoy working with college students. Comes with the usual UCC EBP concerns.

Public Hospital - Very EBP focused, primarily focused on SUD/Sex Offender work. LONG commute, population I may be less excited to work with frankly, but probably really good EBP exposure.

I'm currently very torn between UCC and Public Hospital, although I suspect public hospital may suit me better in the long run knowing the VA. I'm still pretty torn and may benefit from some "in hindsight" advice on what others may have picked if they were in my shoes.

 

[PsyDuck90]

Out of those options, I’d go with the public hospital. VAs and AMCs are going to want some sort of hospital experience and if a VA or AMC isn’t available, a public hospital will at least provide more exposure to a more acute population than what people typically consider when they see UCC or in-house clinic on an applicant’s CV. The EBP emphasis is also a plus, as VAs and AMCs tend to prioritize that.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Out of those options, I’d go with the public hospital. VAs and AMCs are going to want some sort of hospital experience and if a VA or AMC isn’t available, a public hospital will at least provide more exposure to a more acute population than what people typically consider when they see UCC or in-house clinic on an applicant’s CV. The EBP emphasis is also a plus, as VAs and AMCs tend to prioritize that.

VA and hospital (health psych) experience in available, but not until our final two years prior to internship. Still, I'm picking up what you're putting down and yeah ... seems like the public hospital is the way to go.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Also voting for public hospital.

 

[Sanman]

Public hospital would probably be best. However, if you end up at the UCC, see if you can do something to focus on substance abuse or trauma. Will resonate with a VA hospital.

 

[R. Matey]

Well, SO work is mixed in terms of its evidence base so it depends on what you're really doing day-to-day. The relapse prevention model will give you broader skills that translate well to SUD treatment, but you may also get this at the UCC depending on how committed they are to EBPs. If not at all (i.e., fears of CBT 'retraumatizing' students), then I'd probably still choose the hospital. The benefits of a UCC is exposure to a broad patient population for you to develop some skill in encountering a variety of problems (depression, anxiety disorder, disordered eating, prodromal psychosis, suicidal ideation, adjustment concerns).

As far as hindsight goes, I hated my UCC internship, but my prac was pretty good in developing me as a therapist. My supervisors were very supportive in helping me developing my skills in cognitive therapy (much more than on internship).

 

[cara susanna]

My friend did a prac at the UCC and is now at the VA (but didn't do a VA internship and is at a more rural VA). I also did an externship there and got a VA internship. I didn't have any actual hospital experience. VAs look at experience with complex patients, EBPs, and also assessment hours. For a research-y internship, I found that publications mattered more than specific clinical experience, once you met a certain threshold.

 

[The Cinnabon]

My friend did a prac at the UCC and is now at the VA (but didn't do a VA internship and is at a more rural VA). I also did an externship there and got a VA internship. I didn't have any actual hospital experience. VAs look at experience with complex patients, EBPs, and also assessment hours. For a research-y internship, I found that publications mattered more than specific clinical experience, once you met a certain threshold.

That's excellent to hear! Do you have a general idea what range would be considered competitive? I've more or less been going off of PCSAS outcomes (https://pcsas.org/wp-content/uploads/Internship-Report-3-4-24-Final.pdf) as a guidelines for what research-"y" students have been matching with.

 

[PsyDr]

If you train in a hospital, it's easy to get a job at a hospital. If you never trained in a hospital, it's nearly impossible to get a hospital job.

IDK why anyone would want the UCC pay.

 

[cara susanna]

That's excellent to hear! Do you have a general idea what range would be considered competitive? I've more or less been going off of PCSAS outcomes (https://pcsas.org/wp-content/uploads/Internship-Report-3-4-24-Final.pdf) as a guidelines for what research-"y" students have been matching with.

It's been a long time, but I think 4 or 5 minimum were recommended. IIRC, I had 5?

 

[The Cinnabon]

Went with state hosptial. Training experiences are more extensive than I thought and I was offered to get a high PTSD caseload as well as PE and CPT trainings.

Am very excited!

 

[R. Matey]

IDK why anyone would want the UCC pay.

I think that's why they mainly hire master's level clinicians now.

 

[futureapppsy2]

That's excellent to hear! Do you have a general idea what range would be considered competitive? I've more or less been going off of PCSAS outcomes (https://pcsas.org/wp-content/uploads/Internship-Report-3-4-24-Final.pdf) as a guidelines for what research-"y" students have been matching with.

It’s old but there was an article on this about a decade back, fwiw: APA PsycNet

Supports the idea that 4-5 publications should put you at the top-ish of the heap and competitive for research internships.

 

[cara susanna]

Went with state hosptial. Training experiences are more extensive than I thought and I was offered to get a high PTSD caseload as well as PE and CPT trainings.

Am very excited!

CPT and PE trainings? I hope this prac wasn't around when I was a student, because I would have loved that 😢

 

[The Cinnabon]

CPT and PE trainings? I hope this prac wasn't around when I was a student, because I would have loved that 😢

They've been off and on.

 

[Dazen]

I applied to a number of research-y internships this past cycle with 10 pubs and 5 under review and had mixed success. I also appeared to be on the low end of productivity when compared to others I saw at those interviews. Successful acquisition of grant funding (e.g., F31) was also overrepresented. I wouldn't be surprised if, like many things, the productivity expectation has gone up over time. As an example, UCSF's training brochure states that top ranked applicants over the past two years have had 14-16 pubs.

As someone who ended up in phase 2, albeit for a competitive specialty (peds), I do wonder whether I ended up in that middle ground where I was not quite prolific enough for the top research sites, but seen as "too research-y" for more clinical sites.

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, I applied to research-heavy internships and it definitely felt like the "all the guys asking the prettiest girl to the prom" situation.

What I found especially hilarious is that I didn't even get an interview at a site that would later accept me for post doc. You'd think internship should be LESS competitive!

 

[R. Matey]

I applied to a number of research-y internships this past cycle with 10 pubs and 5 under review and had mixed success. I also appeared to be on the low end of productivity when compared to others I saw at those interviews. Successful acquisition of grant funding (e.g., F31) was also overrepresented. I wouldn't be surprised if, like many things, the productivity expectation has gone up over time. As an example, UCSF's training brochure states that top ranked applicants over the past two years have had 14-16 pubs.

Yep. Publication inflation for graduate students was very much a thing when I was going out for internship (~7 years ago). It really comes down to what lab you're a part of more than anything else. Some labs are just more productive than others and some people do not always follow the authorship contribution rules to the letter. The secret's out to students and their mentors that more publications equals more competitive internship slots so it's become a bit of an arms race.

 

[RxPsych]

Yep. Publication inflation for graduate students was very much a thing when I was going out for internship (~6 years ago). It really comes down to what lab you're a part more than anything else. Some labs are just more productive than others and some people do not always follow the authorship contribution rules to the letter.

This. My mentor is very generous with authorship. If anyone looks at the manuscript and makes even a grammatical edit, he would allow them authorship. I think it's a function of him often "ghost writing" for his advisor, where he would write almost an entire manuscript and not get listed as an author. Now the pendulum is on the opposite side and he is too liberal with allowing authorship. I think it looks good, especially for the undergrads in the lab, but if anyone asked them about the manuscript or their contributions, they might be backed into a corner.

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, some of my publications by internship were because I started working with a VERY productive faculty member in my dept, even if it wasn't super relevant to my own research interests.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yep. Publication inflation for graduate students was very much a thing when I was going out for internship (~7 years ago). It really comes down to what lab you're a part of more than anything else. Some labs are just more productive than others and some people do not always follow the authorship contribution rules to the letter. The secret's out to students and their mentors that more publications equals more competitive internship slots so it's become a bit of an arms race.

Eh, I got most of my grad school pubs with people outside of my university, actually, but I was a definite outlier in the publication department.

 

[R. Matey]

Eh, I got most of my grad school pubs with people outside of my university, actually, but I was a definite outlier in the publication department.

Yeah, there are always exceptions. I had a few outside collabs but only one resulted in a pub during graduate school. I published a lot more on postdoc, but I was in a NIH-funded research center where the expectations and norms around publishing were very different.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah, I applied to research-heavy internships and it definitely felt like the "all the guys asking the prettiest girl to the prom" situation.

What I found especially hilarious is that I didn't even get an interview at a site that would later accept me for post doc. You'd think internship should be LESS competitive!

I had a well known AMC reject me for an internship interview bc they traditionally don’t take PsyDs, but then a year later reach out through my mentor about their fellowship, hard pass.