How To Secure A Residency

[JackieBrown13]

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So I made it! I will be starting medical school this summer at MSUCOM.

Interested in hearing any tips on what I should do during the next four years in order to secure a spot in a residency. Good grades, good COMLEX/USMLE scores (although I believe I will only have to take the COMLEX since I will be class of 2017). What scores should I shoot for depending on different residencies (FM, Med/Peds, IM... Not really positive yet what I want, perhaps rheumatology,ortho,cardiology)? Is it necessary that I continue research, community service, leadership roles, etc? I am concerned about having time for these other activities if they are a must.

Let me know, and thanks in advance!

 

[pattr]

So I made it! I will be starting medical school this summer at MSUCOM.

Interested in hearing any tips on what I should do during the next four years in order to secure a spot in a residency. Good grades, good COMLEX/USMLE scores (although I believe I will only have to take the COMLEX since I will be class of 2017). What scores should I shoot for depending on different residencies (FM, Med/Peds, IM... Not really positive yet what I want, perhaps rheumatology,ortho,cardiology)? Is it necessary that I continue research, community service, leadership roles, etc? I am concerned about having time for these other activities if they are a must.

Let me know, and thanks in advance!

Congrats on your acceptance!

Prepare to take both the COMLEX and USMLE. You don't know what the future will hold (none of us do) and ACGME PD's are simply more comfortable assessing candidates based on their USMLE.

Leadership, research, community service are all good; they are a good break from studying and help your application for residency too. Maintain a good school/life balance so you don't get overwhelmed. Most importantly do well in your classes and try to absorb as much information as possible. Start board prep early (you could even get a first aid book and start looking through it during first year just to get an idea of the level of knowlege expected).

You can look at the WAMC threads and the annual averages (on the AOA and NRMP websites) for scores to aim for depending on the specialty (they vary a lot and it seems like you're pretty open minded - you have FM, one of the least competitive specialties, and ortho, one of the most competitive, in the same sentence).

 

[GUH]

So I made it! I will be starting medical school this summer at MSUCOM.

Interested in hearing any tips on what I should do during the next four years in order to secure a spot in a residency. Good grades, good COMLEX/USMLE scores (although I believe I will only have to take the COMLEX since I will be class of 2017). What scores should I shoot for depending on different residencies (FM, Med/Peds, IM... Not really positive yet what I want, perhaps rheumatology,ortho,cardiology)? Is it necessary that I continue research, community service, leadership roles, etc? I am concerned about having time for these other activities if they are a must.

Let me know, and thanks in advance!

What do you mean by that? Almost all US DO and MD students get into a residency program (or at least an internship year) upon graduating. The exceptions are mostly those who either shoot too high without any backups or those who have failed a year or had some other kind of major problem.

 

[cliquesh]

So I made it! I will be starting medical school this summer at MSUCOM.

Interested in hearing any tips on what I should do during the next four years in order to secure a spot in a residency. Good grades, good COMLEX/USMLE scores (although I believe I will only have to take the COMLEX since I will be class of 2017). What scores should I shoot for depending on different residencies (FM, Med/Peds, IM... Not really positive yet what I want, perhaps rheumatology,ortho,cardiology)? Is it necessary that I continue research, community service, leadership roles, etc? I am concerned about having time for these other activities if they are a must.

Let me know, and thanks in advance!

Take the usmle. The merger, even if it goes through, will not change the fact that acgme program directors want to see a usmle score. Take the test or you'll regret it. However, if you have your heart set on a competitive surgical speciality, such as orthopedics, taking the comlex will likely be acceptable because Acgme surgical subspecalties are unrealistic as a DO.

You'll need around a +600 (~90th percentile or higher) on the comlex to be competitive for AOA orthopedics and other surgical fields like urology, ENT, neurosurgery. If you are truely interested in orthopedics, or one of the other competitive surgical fields, then you should try to get involved with research as soon as possible and join your school's orthopedic club and introduce yourself to your school's residency program director. It's important to network early on if you want to do a competitive surgical speciality.

If you want AOA general surgery you'll need around a 530 (60th percentile) or a 230+ on the usmle if you want Acgme general surgery.

Internal medicine and pediatrics are different. The quality of internal medicine and pediatric programs differs drastically. As a DO you can, realistically at best, match at a solid mid-tier university program for IM/peds. Upper tier matchs are, in general, unrealistic, even if you have amazing board scores

You can probably match at most AOA internal medicine programs with a 500 (50th percentile) on the comlex. You can probably match at an Acgme community IM program with a similar score. You'll need something in the 230s (+60th percentile) on the usmle to match at a decent university program for internal medicine. Pretty much the same thing for peds. People in my class had a hard time matching Acgme pediatrics with only comlex scores, even at community programs. I hope you keep that in mind.

Rheumatology and cardiology, if you are not aware, are fellowships of internal medicine and pediatrics. Cardiology, GI, and hem/onc are competitive IM fellowships because they pay well. If you want to do one of those, you should aim for the best Acgme residency you can get into. If you want rheumatology, pulm/critical care, or endocrinology, which are not very competitive IM fellowships, you can go pretty much anywhere and you'll be fine. There are a decent number of AOA cardiology fellowships, but there are few AOA GI, hem/onc, rheum, endocrine fellowships.

You can view all of the AOA residencies and fellowships here. http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/

If you score in the 230s or higher Acgme anesthesia is doable and so is Acgme radiology.

You basically just need a 230+ and you should have many opportunities. However, Acgme orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, opthamology, derm, and rad/onc will still be out of reach.

Acgme family, internal medicine, peds, pathology, Ob/gyn, general surgery, neurology, pyschiatry, PM&R, emergency medicine, radiology, and anesthesia are rountinely do able as a DO.

You can continue service roles if you want. I did a lot of community service and I put it on my residency application. Most places didn't care. From my experience, program directors care most about board scores, clinical grades, LORs and research. Acgme programs did not care I was in the osteopathic honors society.

 

[Instatewaiter]

What do you mean by that? Almost all US DO and MD students get into a residency program (or at least an internship year) upon graduating. The exceptions are mostly those who either shoot too high without any backups or those who have failed a year or had some other kind of major problem.

There is a difference between getting a residency and getting the residency that you want. The OP is asking about the latter.

OP:
Research will be a plus for any academic IM program (ie a university program). Best time to do that is between first and 2nd year. It is basically a must for Ortho.

Do as well as you can in your classes. The pre-clinical grades can hurt you a little but not as much as bad clinical grades. That said, doing well in your courses is the best predictor of step 1 performance.

Go out of your way to be a good 3rd year student. Those grades actually matter, especially the grade for the rotation you are going into (ie Medicine if going into IM, surgery if going into ortho)

Go balls to the wall for step 1. This score matters a lot. A low score will automatically preclude you from certain programs even when the rest of your application is strong.
- what many people do is get step 1 books during first and 2nd year and skim the info while you are doing that part of the class. That way when step 1 comes around you will already be familiar with the books.

At the start of whatever rotation you are going into, tell the residents you want to do that (don't lie). So if you want to do medicine, tell them and they will give you more teaching, spend more time with you and may grade you easier.

 

[babdoc]

I'll echo and add about the USMLE. The advice to take the USMLE includes taking both step 1 and step 2CK (but not the step 2CS). Residency committees like to see both computerized USMLE steps.

For future reference, USMLE step 3 is probably not necessary, but that might depend on the specialty you choose. For instance, I am doing ACGME internal medicine. I'll take COMLEX level 3 to get my license. In medicine, all you need is a license and to have completed an ACGME residency to be eligible to take the ABIM specialty boards. That's probably too much information for a budding MS-1 but worth keeping in the back of your mind.

To summarize, take COMLEX 1, 2, 2PE; USMLE 1, 2CK; and do really well on them. You'll do fine. Congrats

 

[rc4ch]

Be a nice person. Don't be a jerk to people. Have a positive attitude in all your rotations even if you hate it.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I'll echo and add about the USMLE. The advice to take the USMLE includes taking both step 1 and step 2CK (but not the step 2CS). Residency committees like to see both computerized USMLE steps.

For future reference, USMLE step 3 is probably not necessary, but that might depend on the specialty you choose. For instance, I am doing ACGME internal medicine. I'll take COMLEX level 3 to get my license. In medicine, all you need is a license and to have completed an ACGME residency to be eligible to take the ABIM specialty boards. That's probably too much information for a budding MS-1 but worth keeping in the back of your mind.

To summarize, take COMLEX 1, 2, 2PE; USMLE 1, 2CK; and do really well on them. You'll do fine. Congrats

I've always heard, step 1 is usually enough. Is step 2 really necessary?

 

[babdoc]

I've always heard, step 1 is usually enough. Is step 2 really necessary?

It came up in several interviews. It seemed like an "oh you took the initiative to take step 2..." type of thing. I talked to a few PDs/APDs/program coordinators when I applied, the universal response was " you need to take it" or "it won't hurt". I took that to mean you don't want to get your app passed over because we cannot compare you easily as well as that, again, it shows initiative. I know it sucks taking yet another 8 hour test and costs $$$, but you want your options open. It probably depends on specialty and program; it's worth looking into. I'd definitely recommend it to the OP that's interested in some competitive specialties.

 

[Mosonik]

I know to some extent this has been discussed but what about for ACGME residencies (specifically IM) that accept COMLEX, according to their websites? Is there any reason to take the USMLE if they explicitly state that the COMLEX is acceptable?

 

[cliquesh]

I know to some extent this has been discussed but what about for ACGME residencies (specifically IM) that accept COMLEX, according to their websites? Is there any reason to take the USMLE if they explicitly state that the COMLEX is acceptable?

Yes. Its simply comparing apples (usmle) to oranges (comlex). Its easier for program directors to objectively rank people if they both have taken the same standardized test. You will get so many more interviews and interviews at better places if you take the usmle.

 

[babdoc]

I know to some extent this has been discussed but what about for ACGME residencies (specifically IM) that accept COMLEX, according to their websites? Is there any reason to take the USMLE if they explicitly state that the COMLEX is acceptable?

Depends if 1. the COMLEX is all you need, 2. if it's acceptable but USMLE recommended, or (for completeness) 3. If you have to take USMLE. It is always better to have your all of your options open. Assuming one will apply to 15+ residencies, it's likely that at least one will want or highly recommend (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) the USMLE. Why would one want to close that door?

 

[Mosonik]

Yes. Its simply comparing apples (usmle) to oranges (comlex). Its easier for program directors to objectively rank people if they both have taken the same standardized test. You will get so many more interviews and interviews at better places if you take the usmle.

Depends if 1. the COMLEX is all you need, 2. if it's acceptable but USMLE recommended, or (for completeness) 3. If you have to take USMLE. It is always better to have your all of your options open. Assuming one will apply to 15+ residencies, it's likely that at least one will want or highly recommend (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) the USMLE. Why would one want to close that door?

What you are both saying makes plenty of sense (which I will likely follow). Intrinsic in my question is an unfounded fear that I could rock the COMLEX and do poorly on the USMLE thereby undermining my COMLEX score and doing more damage than good... ultimately closing doors that just taking the one would have given me.
I haven't heard of this happening so maybe it's just paranoia? Granted the scores may not correlate by the "formula" out there but I know they are different beasts so this is somewhat to be expected.

I only asked because I noticed some of the potential programs I was looking at in the SE just had COMLEX listed with the USMLE so I hoped it meant an alternative. Probably wrong assumption

 

[sylvanthus]

What you are both saying makes plenty of sense (which I will likely follow). Intrinsic in my question is an unfounded fear that I could rock the COMLEX and do poorly on the USMLE thereby undermining my COMLEX score and doing more damage than good... ultimately closing doors that just taking the one would have given me.
I haven't heard of this happening so maybe it's just paranoia? Granted the scores may not correlate by the "formula" out there but I know they are different beasts so this is somewhat to be expected.

I only asked because I noticed some of the potential programs I was looking at in the SE just had COMLEX listed with the USMLE so I hoped it meant an alternative. Probably wrong assumption

If you rock the COMLEX and blow on the USMLE, you just apply DO and don't report your USMLE score. However, if you apply MD you must report that you took the USMLE. If it is the other way around and you rock the USMLE and suck on the COMLEX, you apply MD and few PDs will even know what your COMLEX score even means and will focus on the USMLE.

 

[survivordo]

Good advice given above. Most important thing is to work for it like you are going into ortho/super competitive specialty. The last thing you want is to say "man I really love XXX specialty but I slacked and don't have the grades/board scores for it". Don't hold yourself back, but remember to leave time for a little fun too!

Survivor DO

 

[SurgeDO]

.

 

[sylvanthus]

Sure you can be "fine" or you can have more options. Your call.

 

[pattr]

Sure you can be "fine" or you can have more options. Your call.

👍 I'm definitely of the opinion that all DO students should take the USMLE.

 

[swlabr1980]

I know to some extent this has been discussed but what about for ACGME residencies (specifically IM) that accept COMLEX, according to their websites? Is there any reason to take the USMLE if they explicitly state that the COMLEX is acceptable?

Lots of programs say this to appear inclusive and PC. I've spoken to directors of programs that claimed to accept both, and they strongly recommended taking the USMLE.

 

[Mosonik]

Lots of programs say this to appear inclusive and PC. I've spoken to directors of programs that claimed to accept both, and they strongly recommended taking the USMLE.

Valuable insight, thank you! I'm doing my research now so I can start preparing early on for what I will do... which seems like taking both Step 1s, to keep opportunity as open as possible. I'm interested in IM (and maybe ID) but even though its not extremely "competitive" I want to give my best.

 

[California2000]

As someone who just finished their second yr, best advice I can give is just to really focus on your classes and do the best that you can. First year isn't easy and you really need to put all your effort into your classes in order to pass, let alone do well. An M1, let alone a pre-M1, doesn't need to be thinking about the boards. You can worry about them after your first semester of M2.

 

[Charlie Hustle]

As someone who just finished their second yr, best advice I can give is just to really focus on your classes and do the best that you can. First year isn't easy and you really need to put all your effort into your classes in order to pass, let alone do well. An M1, let alone a pre-M1, doesn't need to be thinking about the boards. You can worry about them after your first semester of M2.

+1

I love your ambition, OP, but there's no substitute for putting in the legwork upfront and actually learning medicine. It's good that you're getting some insight as to what types of decisions you'll need to make in a few years, but for now just enjoy your time off. I agree with what everyone has said up to this point, but it's still probably a little too early for you to be worried about boards. Once your classes start in a few months, work as hard as you can right out of the gate, keep getting advice from those who have been there before, and you'll be in good shape.

 

[Trogghunter]

+1

I love your ambition, OP, but there's no substitute for putting in the legwork upfront and actually learning medicine. It's good that you're getting some insight as to what types of decisions you'll need to make in a few years, but for now just enjoy your time off. I agree with what everyone has said up to this point, but it's still probably a little too early for you to be worried about boards. Once your classes start in a few months, work as hard as you can right out of the gate, keep getting advice from those who have been there before, and you'll be in good shape.

Forget that. Party hard, cram hard. You'll forget it all come boards and you gotta study all over again. Might as well get it out of your system so that you can grind for step 1. No one wants to work with a know-it-all. Develop your social skills.

 

[Dmr6186]

Forget that. Party hard, cram hard. You'll forget it all come boards and you gotta study all over again. Might as well get it out of your system so that you can grind for step 1. No one wants to work with a know-it-all.Develop your social skills.

As long as the person is not a douche then I don't think it should be looked down on to be well-versed with the education you're paying out the nose for.

 

[babdoc]

As long as the person is not a douche then I don't think it should be looked down on to be well-versed with the education you're paying out the nose for.

I might be wrong, but I believe that was what the kids are calling sarcasm.

But really, good bedside manner is very important as is the knowledge. The best docs have both.

 

[Dmr6186]

I might be wrong, but I believe that was what the kids are calling sarcasm.

But really, good bedside manner is very important as is the knowledge. The best docs have both.

Probably sarcasm but who knows. Tough to discern when a lot of current med students tell pre meds not to worry about pre clinical grades!

 

[babdoc]

Ha! True.

 

[QueenJames]

BUMP!!

Hey guys! just got accepted into one of my top choices and am now starting to have a panic attack about the next 4 years... the merger and everything and residency and rotations and COMLEX and STEP and making it past med school...

what is your guys' best advice for all of this?

Do I worry about the quality of rotations? What about research? What should I do to ensure I succeed in medical school? My undergrad stats were not the greatest tbh. I had a 3.46 sciGPA WITH retakes (once I stopped being an immature student) and was able to get a 27 (8,9,10) on the MCAT. These stats probably don't have anything to do with anything but I'm just worried about how things will look 4 years down the road.

Some of the residency programs the school I got into (ATSU-SOMA) to match into for residency are mainly AOA spots which I was told will be shutting down and some will be staying and whatnot. I'm just confused. I've seen the chaos that is match day through other folks' experiences on SDN and want to learn from others' mistakes. I know I should chill out but idk I guess that's the treadmill of life for me lol Thanks guys! I appreciate any help!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No one knows exactly how the next few years are going to play out for AOA programs and especially for class of 2020 which I think will have the unified match. I guess the best thing you can do is pay attention to changes.

If you're worried about quality of rotations then attend an older school or one that's bound to a bigger university. Research you'll do mainly either in your summers or during research electives 3rd and 4th year. I know I'll personally be doing a few electives in research my 4th year since my summers are very short at KCU ( only 4 weeks) and I want time off for real.

Doing well in medical school is not impossible. All you need to do is not get behind, focus or identify things you struggle with and study hard on that, and to not also at the same time not blow off sleep. I wasn't the best student or best test taker but I'm still somewhere above average on most everything and I'm comfortable with that. I don't think I need to kill myself for an A nor am going to honestly invest in more time that I could use to keep myself healthier and not burnt out.

AOA programs could become ACGME by the end of 2020. If they don't then they will stop taking residents. In either case there will be residencies for DOs to match into, however there could be more difficulty matching into more competitive specialties.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I would suggest really reading up on all the stuff on SDN. Try to get an understanding of where the best rotations are from upperclassmen (find ones that rotate with residents as much as you can). For research, DO school are very variable. Some will have excellent research opportunities left and right and others not so much. So make sure you look at the local hospitals or research centers to see if there are opportunities for medical students. As serenade has suggested, you can even try to find research in the hospital you are rotating at as well (better done during 3rd before your auditions). Make sure you have a lot of elective rotations. If there is some in 3rd year, it is a good chance to explore a specialty. If there is a lot in 4th year, you get more audition rotations and have more flexibility in what you learn (maybe take a breather in an easier rotation).

The main thing is the be the best that you can be. Good luck! (And I will probably need the pep talk too if I get in. LOL)