How to study in PBL curriculum?

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davidxavi

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I just started medical school at a school that heavily uses a PBL curriculum. I relied heavily during undergrad on traditional lecture-style learning, so I am a little apprehensive about PBL.
I've read that UpToDate is a good way to prepare for these sessions; does anybody have any other suggestions as to how to best use these sessions to learn material? How can I get the most out of these PBL meetings? Thanks!

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I just started medical school at a school that heavily uses a PBL curriculum. I relied heavily during undergrad on traditional lecture-style learning, so I am a little apprehensive about PBL.
I've read that UpToDate is a good way to prepare for these sessions; does anybody have any other suggestions as to how to best use these sessions to learn material? How can I get the most out of these PBL meetings? Thanks!


I heavily used emedicine (medscape). It will give you an overview of each condition, presentation, differential, workup and treatment. So when you get a case and have an idea what it might be, use emedicine to really understand how that patient will present in real life and what you would do for them. Also the fact that it gives you a list of differentials will help you reason out why those diagnoses would be wrong. Hope this helps!
 
UpToDate is good. It's not foolproof, but has good citations for current literature (hence "up to date"), and tends to give more information than some other sources.

Also, NEJM has archives of clinical learning cases as well, and maybe going through some of these would be good supplements or primers for your PBL cases.


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I just started medical school at a school that heavily uses a PBL curriculum. I relied heavily during undergrad on traditional lecture-style learning, so I am a little apprehensive about PBL.
I've read that UpToDate is a good way to prepare for these sessions; does anybody have any other suggestions as to how to best use these sessions to learn material? How can I get the most out of these PBL meetings? Thanks!

Personally I think PBL is a near complete waste of time and a terrible way to learn material. Oftentimes your group will suck, or your facilitator will be poor, or the cases will just be downright terrible, and it's rare to have a session that are actually productive and accomplishes more than what you could have googled in 5 minutes. PBL is fine to reinforce concepts you've already learned, and a few sessions can be okay to get used to working as a team, but I find it to be a terrible way to teach students. I have no idea how high the quality of PBL is at your school, but I highly doubt even good PBL cases can cover the wide range of topics necessary for step 1. If your goal is to actually learn what you need to learn, I would focus as little time as possible on PBL and using your outside of class time to watch lectures from the dozens of great online resources that will actually teach you medicine. Obviously stay awake during the sessions, but I wouldn't recommend spending any time outside of PBL working on PBL related things.

Out of curiosity how many hours of PBL does your school make you attend each week?
 
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^ preach. I avoided a near-100% PBL school for this reason.
 
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Personally I think PBL is a near complete waste of time and a terrible way to learn material. Oftentimes your group will suck, or your facilitator will be poor, or the cases will just be downright terrible, and it's rare to have a session that are actually productive and accomplishes more than what you could have googled in 5 minutes. PBL is fine to reinforce concepts you've already learned, and a few sessions can be okay to get used to working as a team, but I find it to be a terrible way to teach students. I have no idea how high the quality of PBL is at your school, but I highly doubt even good PBL cases can cover the wide range of topics necessary for step 1. If your goal is to actually learn what you need to learn, I would focus as little time as possible on PBL and using your outside of class time to watch lectures from the dozens of great online resources that will actually teach you medicine. Obviously stay awake during the sessions, but I wouldn't recommend spending any time outside of PBL working on PBL related things.

Out of curiosity how many hours of PBL does your school make you attend each week?

Thanks everybody for the advice. My school is almost 100% PBL, and what Dermpire says pretty well sums up many of the concerns I have based on what I've heard from others.

Given my school's curriculum relies so heavily on PBL, would anybody have any suggestions on how to relate PBL to learning the material I need to know?
 
Thanks everybody for the advice. My school is almost 100% PBL, and what Dermpire says pretty well sums up many of the concerns I have based on what I've heard from others.

Given my school's curriculum relies so heavily on PBL, would anybody have any suggestions on how to relate PBL to learning the material I need to know?
I'm starting M2 at a nearly 100% PBL school and, I have to say, it's deceptively effective at teaching. Will you learn the details of every lysosomal storage disorder? No, but you'll learn the biochemistry around them well enough to have coherent conversations about pathways with clinical metabolism docs. You'll learn a prototype disease of that type really well, including the key enzymes in that area and how to differentiate it from similar disorders. You'll learn how to think about those issues in context of a patient. And then when you go back and try to memorize all of the other ones, you'll find that they slip right into your memory because you already know the hows, just not all the specific names/details. Knowing me, I'd probably forget the details by the time Step study came around anyway, so it's not really a loss.

The thing with PBL based learning is that it happens kind of naturally/gradually, and in a less rigidly organized way than lecture/memorization. So it's easy to feel like you're not learning as much. But when you look back, I think you'll be surprised what you know.

The way I prep is to find the textbook section on whatever the case is on, and read it. It's best if you read the whole section here, including related/similar disorders and physiology/path, if you have the time. Then, for more specific questions and details of the case, I look at primary literature. Sometimes it's easiest, if the question is super clinical, to go to UpToDate first and use their citations/info as a jumping-off point.
 
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I'm starting M2 at a nearly 100% PBL school and, I have to say, it's deceptively effective at teaching. Will you learn the details of every lysosomal storage disorder? No, but you'll learn the biochemistry around them well enough to have coherent conversations about pathways with clinical metabolism docs. You'll learn a prototype disease of that type really well, including the key enzymes in that area and how to differentiate it from similar disorders. You'll learn how to think about those issues in context of a patient. And then when you go back and try to memorize all of the other ones, you'll find that they slip right into your memory because you already know the hows, just not all the specific names/details. Knowing me, I'd probably forget the details by the time Step study came around anyway, so it's not really a loss.

The thing with PBL based learning is that it happens kind of naturally/gradually, and in a less rigidly organized way than lecture/memorization. So it's easy to feel like you're not learning as much. But when you look back, I think you'll be surprised what you know.

The way I prep is to find the textbook section on whatever the case is on, and read it. It's best if you read the whole section here, including related/similar disorders and physiology/path, if you have the time. Then, for more specific questions and details of the case, I look at primary literature. Sometimes it's easiest, if the question is super clinical, to go to UpToDate first and use their citations/info as a jumping-off point.

Yea, this is basically my experience. Our curriculum is roughly half and half. We're doing flipped classroom for our 2 week optho/derm module without PBL and most of us miss PBL. You make so many connections that stick because you're more or less forced to find the answer rather than it being right there on a slide.

It definitely has it's drawbacks if you have a sh*tty group or facilitator but in my opinion, they would have be really bad in order for you to gain nothing.

I don't prep for sessions though and my time to "review" pbl is basically keeping up with lectures that have some overlap which serves to reinforce the info.

Edit: Oh and sometimes it can become annoying when you have to put together a presentation and you have a million other things to do but that's minority of the time.
 
Yea, this is basically my experience. Our curriculum is roughly half and half. We're doing flipped classroom for our 2 week optho/derm module without PBL and most of us miss PBL. You make so many connections that stick because you're more or less forced to find the answer rather than it being right there on a slide.

It definitely has it's drawbacks if you have a sh*tty group or facilitator but in my opinion, they would have be really bad in order for you to gain nothing.

I don't prep for sessions though and my time to "review" pbl is basically keeping up with lectures that have some overlap which serves to reinforce the info.

Edit: Oh and sometimes it can become annoying when you have to put together a presentation and you have a million other things to do but that's minority of the time.
Ah, we don't have flipped classrooms or presentations with our PBL, just discussion in a group. I had one block with a group that just didn't 'gel' very well, but it still didn't interrupt my learning of the material, at least judging by the fact that when I was in clinic and a kid's newborn screen came back oddly, I was able to name 2 enzymes and 1 cofactor that could have caused the abnormal result, and what other finding I would expect if the cofactor were the issue. Didn't think I'd learned biochem well, but then it just pops out now and then!
 
What are your exams on at this PBL-- the sessions or readings or both? And are you asking about preparing for exams or for the PBL sessions?
 
Ah, we don't have flipped classrooms or presentations with our PBL, just discussion in a group. I had one block with a group that just didn't 'gel' very well, but it still didn't interrupt my learning of the material, at least judging by the fact that when I was in clinic and a kid's newborn screen came back oddly, I was able to name 2 enzymes and 1 cofactor that could have caused the abnormal result, and what other finding I would expect if the cofactor were the issue. Didn't think I'd learned biochem well, but then it just pops out now and then!

Yea these two weeks are the only flipped-classroom modules we have. Everything else is back to business. And I'm kinda jealous you guys don't do presentations haha but at the same time, I guess making them kinda forces me to digest the material or build on weaker concepts.

And yea, I'm surprised at how well stuff sticks.
 
Yea these two weeks are the only flipped-classroom modules we have. Everything else is back to business. And I'm kinda jealous you guys don't do presentations haha but at the same time, I guess making them kinda forces me to digest the material or build on weaker concepts.

And yea, I'm surprised at how well stuff sticks.
I mean, for each case someone presents the patient to the group the way you would if they were your patient you were presenting, like SOAP format, but other than that, the structure is up to us, so it'd be hard to know what to present on. I guess we could present on the disease as a whole, but then what's the point of the small group?

There are some recommended resources, but no required readings or anything. I decided early on to never use the recommendation list because a) sometimes it sucks, and b) then everyone has the same sources = boring discussion. Biochem was bad on that one because there were only a few options for learning pathways.
 
I mean, for each case someone presents the patient to the group the way you would if they were your patient you were presenting, like SOAP format, but other than that, the structure is up to us, so it'd be hard to know what to present on. I guess we could present on the disease as a whole, but then what's the point of the small group?

There are some recommended resources, but no required readings or anything. I decided early on to never use the recommendation list because a) sometimes it sucks, and b) then everyone has the same sources = boring discussion. Biochem was bad on that one because there were only a few options for learning pathways.

Well no so we have pre-formulated objectives that are given to us after the first session of a case. Typically it's like 10 or so concepts related to the case that we discuss over the week. People take turns preparing and presenting on a particular objective (ex. discuss the pathway of xyz or discuss clinical presentation/dx/tx/etc). It's like a quick 10-min deal and that makes up roughly the first hour of our session with 3-4 presentations. The second hour is spent progressing through the case.
 
Well no so we have pre-formulated objectives that are given to us after the first session of a case. Typically it's like 10 or so concepts related to the case that we discuss over the week. People take turns preparing and presenting on a particular objective (ex. discuss the pathway of xyz or discuss clinical presentation/dx/tx/etc). It's like a quick 10-min deal and that makes up roughly the first hour of our session with 3-4 presentations. The second hour is spent progressing through the case.
Interesting. We have to come up with our own objectives, and we go through them all as a group, no individual presentations.

The trick to a PBL based curriculum is to spend the time learning the concepts represented very well. Sure, maybe you don't have a case on every presentation and complication of each disorder, but that gives you the space to learn the pathophys really well and then the details just slot in nicely after that.
 
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