How to talk about gender + LGBT-related activities

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OKay so I'm a queer woman of color. It's very important to me and makes me who I am, BUT I really don't want to talk about that in my essay. I'm not closeted or anything but I'm more interested in actually showing up through acts of solidarity than making my essay kinda egocentric. Anyway, I spent 4 yrs in my school's Gay/straight alliance typa thing, worked as a sexualized violence support person, worked with substance users esp those coming out of prison, and also did a good chunk of my post grad work in community health/public health type of research. I also helped build a queer dance studio for women and trans people in the country of my origin ( a developing country, but not voluntourism). I'm concerned, as i've grown up a bit and stepped out of the college/activist bubble, that all this is going to sound too SJW-y at med schools. I've been really stressing out about ways to tone it down. However this is also making me feel very inauthentic in the process. I'm not going to talk about my sexuality in the essays because I just don't want to, and honestly you don't know what's going on in the minds of whoever's in the room. Do you think I should leave out some of these details (aka just write dance studio instead of the queer focus, or make the gay/straight alliance thing sound more like an "ally" than being the actual queer person) or make it sound more neoliberal-y? Idk any thoughts? I changed some details to avoid being ID'd but yeah not sure how these will go down. Stereotype threat and anxiety of prospective prejudice is real y'all!
 
ibsrose said:
OKay so I'm a queer woman of color. It's very important to me and makes me who I am, BUT I really don't want to talk about that in my essay. I'm not closeted or anything but I'm more interested in actually showing up through acts of solidarity than making my essay kinda egocentric. Anyway, I spent 4 yrs in my school's Gay/straight alliance typa thing, worked as a sexualized violence support person, worked with substance users esp those coming out of prison, and also did a good chunk of my post grad work in community health/public health type of research. I also helped build a queer dance studio for women and trans people in the country of my origin ( a developing country, but not voluntourism). I'm concerned, as i've grown up a bit and stepped out of the college/activist bubble, that all this is going to sound too SJW-y at med schools. I've been really stressing out about ways to tone it down. However this is also making me feel very inauthentic in the process. I'm not going to talk about my sexuality in the essays because I just don't want to, and honestly you don't know what's going on in the minds of whoever's in the room. Do you think I should leave out some of these details (aka just write dance studio instead of the queer focus, or make the gay/straight alliance thing sound more like an "ally" than being the actual queer person) or make it sound more neoliberal-y? Idk any thoughts? I changed some details to avoid being ID'd but yeah not sure how these will go down. Stereotype threat and anxiety of prospective prejudice is real y'all!
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You do you. Just talk about it how you would with anyone within the community or publicly. If there is a school that has a problem with it then that is not a school you want to go to.
 
I have queer/LGBT activities all over my app.
 
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I talked about being a bisexual woman of color in a few of my secondaries because it's a part of who I am and important to my identity. Based on what you've described, I recommend you talk about your activities because they are unique and admirable. You may end up getting the opportunity to expand on them more during an interview and let your genuine passion show 😊
 
Goro said:
Unless you're ashamed of your activities, I recommend that you write about them. You've walked the walk, and a number of med schools treat LGBT candidates as URM.

Just don't apply to Loma Linda or LUCOM.
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I'm also a person of faith, and was struggling with the Loma Linda one. Do you recommend not applying if I can talk about my work and identity through the lens of faith?
 
MemeLord said:
You do you. Just talk about it how you would with anyone within the community or publicly. If there is a school that has a problem with it then that is not a school you want to go to.
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This is soooo real but that said this is a really competitive process, so I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by doing something too stupid. I guess I'll keep it AS neutral as possible in the primaries and then maybe have to do individual outreach to people at schools or sth. Idk.
 
ibsrose said:
This is soooo real but that said this is a really competitive process, so I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by doing something too stupid. I guess I'll keep it AS neutral as possible in the primaries and then maybe have to do individual outreach to people at schools or sth. Idk.
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264020
Just don’t apply to any of the schools that are in the red areas and you should honestly be fine and not have to worry about shooting yourselves in the foot.

Always be professional, but also always be the best you that you can be. That includes in your descriptions of who you are and what you’ve done.
 
MemeLord said:
View attachment 264020Just don’t apply to any of the schools that are in the red areas and you should honestly be fine and not have to worry about shooting yourselves in the foot.

Always be professional, but also always be the best you that you can be. That includes in your descriptions of who you are and what you’ve done.
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I think the only one that I'd be looking at all in there is Emory, but I have to look to see where Atlanta is on here
 
The key in your personal statement is to answer the question "why medicine?". You want to show (not tell) your motivation, your traits/abilities, and the steps you've taken to prepare. If the answer to that question involves the fact that you are a queer woman of color, you should let that shine through. If not, you can highlight other aspects of your experience that are central to your desire to become a doctor. There are no wrong answers, as long as your essay demonstrates passion for the profession, shows that you have prepared to fulfill your dream, and have what it takes. Good luck!
 
MemeLord said:
View attachment 264020Just don’t apply to any of the schools that are in the red areas and you should honestly be fine and not have to worry about shooting yourselves in the foot.

Always be professional, but also always be the best you that you can be. That includes in your descriptions of who you are and what you’ve done.
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This advice is pretty blunt. Please don't limit where you apply based on this map. I was open about my involvement in LGBT activities and received acceptances from multiple schools in multiple of these red areas. Even (sometimes especially) schools in red states or counties want diversity. As stated above, worst case, you don't get in, and you would not have wanted to go there anyway.
 
ibsrose said:
I'm also a person of faith, and was struggling with the Loma Linda one. Do you recommend not applying if I can talk about my work and identity through the lens of faith?
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Don't apply to Loma Linda unless you're willing to be celibate and sober.
 
Also, just to reiterate and clarify: I don't think you need to hide anything about your identity on your app. Most medical schools (including the one I'm at in the south) will welcome the diversity you bring as a QPOC. I "straight" up asked during my interviews (for PhD, not MD, but it's in the SoM) what the LGBT scene was like because that's something important to me.
 
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jma90 said:
This advice is pretty blunt. Please don't limit where you apply based on this map. I was open about my involvement in LGBT activities and received acceptances from multiple schools in multiple of these red areas. Even (sometimes especially) schools in red states or counties want diversity. As stated above, worst case, you don't get in, and you would not have wanted to go there anyway.
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Thanks for the response! as a rule of thumb, do you suggest just talking about the work that you did, and let that speak for itself vs actually "talking about your identity" esp. since I don't think my being queer is THE decisive factor. Sure, it informs my interest in breaking barriers to accessing care, cultural competency etc, but I don't think it's influenced my decision to be a physician. I guess this is too personal, haha. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
 
ibsrose said:
Thanks for the response! as a rule of thumb, do you suggest just talking about the work that you did, and let that speak for itself vs actually "talking about your identity" esp. since I don't think my being queer is THE decisive factor. Sure, it informs my interest in breaking barriers to accessing care, cultural competency etc, but I don't think it's influenced my decision to be a physician. I guess this is too personal, haha. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
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Some secondary essays will outright ask whether you identify with any minority culture and ask you to explain how that influences your decision to become a physician. But for the primary application, you can let the work speak for itself. At least that's what I'm doing!
 
jma90 said:
This advice is pretty blunt. Please don't limit where you apply based on this map. I was open about my involvement in LGBT activities and received acceptances from multiple schools in multiple of these red areas. Even (sometimes especially) schools in red states or counties want diversity. As stated above, worst case, you don't get in, and you would not have wanted to go there anyway.
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Yes, this was a blunt. But presence of a community does not mean absence of discrimination. And tolerance of ADCOMs does not mean tolerance of the surrounding area. You are right in that OP shouldn’t limit themselves, but they would still be able to produce a fine school list following that map.Which yes, I know is very overgeneralized and honestly kind of prejudiced of me.
 
MemeLord said:
Yes, this was a blunt. But presence of a community does not mean absence of discrimination. And tolerance of ADCOMs does not mean tolerance of the surrounding area. You are right in that OP shouldn’t limit themselves, but they would still be able to produce a fine school list following that map.Which yes, I know is very overgeneralized and honestly kind of prejudiced of me.
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You weren't necessarily wrong, though. I've lived in red areas and I'm currently in a very blue area and I'm much happier here. Plus, most major academic medical centers are in blue areas, anyway, even if the rest of the state is red.
 
ibsrose said:
I'm also a person of faith, and was struggling with the Loma Linda one. Do you recommend not applying if I can talk about my work and identity through the lens of faith?
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Loma Linda gives preference to SDA and deeply religious Christians. I can't recommend a place where you're going to be miserable and/in the closet for four years.

Go look up the student handbook or their rules of conduct.
 
If you think being a QPOC makes you who you are, as you mentioned, I would write about it.

I identify as LGBTQ and was completely set against letting ADCOMs know until I started writing my essays and some of my mentors (who are ADCOMs) asked me why I left it out. As I began writing, I realized that, for me, being queer has not influenced my decision to pursue medicine; instead, it's helped tremendously in empathizing with and helping care for patients that are not understood by the majority of doctors. I hadn't participated in any LGBTQ-centered experiences to list on my app, but I was also an advocate for survivors of sexual assault and domestic violence in addition to other similar experiences and too many of those survivors are LGBTQ. My essays focused on my "area of expertise" with these patients instead of myself, and I think that better represented why I felt it was important to share with schools and how it will make me a different, and likely better, doctor. This is the point of the challenge essay. If people have handled true hardship, whatever that means for them, they will likely be able to better empathize with others that have gone through something similar.

I only applied to schools in fairly "liberal" areas, but I'm sure there were some admissions team members who read my app that were conservative and might've been ~uncomfortable~ with the topic of my essays. Even if those close-minded people didn't do what they're supposed to do as doctors and ADCOMs and put their own feelings aside, I'm sure others trumped their opinions. > 10 interviewers complimented my essay and honesty, and one school even paired me with an LGBTQ interviewer who said she wished more people came out in their apps.

I'm certainly happy with my decision and I think it actually benefited me, but I understand your hesitance. You should do whatever you're most comfortable with. Just thought I'd share an idea for a way to take the essay that revolves more around the patients instead of yourself!
 
I think this thread is getting off course by assuming red areas are intolerant, very prejudiced view.
 
thegrind33 said:
I think this thread is getting off course by assuming red areas are intolerant, very prejudiced view.
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EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
The thread had moved away from that and you just brought it back. My personal experience is that I am not happy in red areas as an LGBT person. That is not a prejudiced view. It is a fact.
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Not a prejudiced viewpoint, a statistical likelihood. Not all people in red areas are intolerant, but there is a very strong correlation with intolerance:

264042
So, now that we see it is a statistical correlation and not an internal prejudice, we can move it back to supporting OP.
 
MemeLord said:
Not a prejudiced viewpoint, a statistical likelihood. Not all people in red areas are intolerant, but there is a very strong correlation with intolerance:

View attachment 264042So, now that we see it is a statistical correlation and not an internal prejudice, we can move it back to supporting OP.
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There’s also an intolerance of conservative views in blue areas if you really wanna go down that road
 
MemeLord said:
Intolerance of views <<<<<<< intolerance of the existence of large groups of people
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A large group of people are conservative, so it is also intolerance of a large group of people as well. Also, every type of intolerance is dispicable in our society, just because someone has X views doesn’t mean it gives people a pass to hate them
 
thegrind33 said:
A large group of people are conservative, so it is also intolerance of a large group of people as well. Also, every type of intolerance is dispicable in our society, just because someone has X views doesn’t mean it gives people a pass to hate them
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You're correct that people don't have a free pass to hate people. But they are not discriminated against in the same way LGBT people have been historically or currently. They are not victims of hate crimes. They are not murdered for their identities. They are not institutionalized. They are not considered mentally ill.

You cannot equate conservatism and being LGBT.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
You're correct that people don't have a free pass to hate people. But they are not discriminated against in the same way LGBT people have been historically or currently. They are not victims of hate crimes. They are not murdered for their identities. They are not institutionalized. They are not considered mentally ill.

You cannot equate conservatism and being LGBT.
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You’re absolutely right and make good points. I live in a very red area and luckily there isn’t any animosity towards lgbt people, but I’m not lgbt so I don’t really know how life is like.
 
MemeLord said:
View attachment 264020Just don’t apply to any of the schools that are in the red areas and you should honestly be fine and not have to worry about shooting yourselves in the foot.

Always be professional, but also always be the best you that you can be. That includes in your descriptions of who you are and what you’ve done.
Click to expand...

Aren’t most med schools located in metropolitan areas which are much more liberal?

But coming from a guy from a reddish area, you’ll probably hear gay jokes and such, but very few of them are actually anti-lgbt.
 
doctorcocter said:
Aren’t most med schools located in metropolitan areas which are much more liberal?

But coming from a guy from a reddish area, you’ll probably hear gay jokes and such, but very few of them are actually anti-lgbt.
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Yes, pretty much every medical school I can think of is a blue area on the map that was shared. Gay jokes are, by definition, anti-LGBT.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
You're correct that people don't have a free pass to hate people. But they are not discriminated against in the same way LGBT people have been historically or currently. They are not victims of hate crimes. They are not murdered for their identities. They are not institutionalized. They are not considered mentally ill.

You cannot equate conservatism and being LGBT.
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Try openly expressing conservative viewpoints in Portland or San Francisco, and then tell us how that goes.

In the modern US, gays generally aren't murdered or unjustly institutionalized. You can see flamboyant gays kissing and holding hands in most US cities, and all that these couples can expect in retaliation is a few angry or confused glares from passersby. When you see a pride parade going down a street in a major American city, do you see participants cowering in fear and praying for their lives, or do you see scantily clad, "loud-and-proud" individuals waving rainbow flags and hurling glitter everywhere? Ironically, the countries where gays are treated most unjustly and cruelly are those that the modern Left chooses not to criticize, out of fear of being "Islamophobic."
 
Osminog said:
Try openly expressing conservative viewpoints in Portland or San Francisco, and then tell us how that goes.

In the modern US, gays generally aren't murdered or unjustly institutionalized. You can see flamboyant gays kissing and holding hands in most US cities in America, and all that these couples can expect in retaliation is a few angry glares from passersby. When you see a pride parade going down a street in a major city, do you see participants cowering in fear and praying for their lives, or do you see scantily clad, "loud-and-proud" individuals waving rainbow flags and hurling glitter everywhere? Ironically, the countries where gays are treated most unjustly and cruelly are those that the modern Left chooses not to criticize, out of fear of being "Islamophobic."
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Sorry, but you are just wrong. Gay people are the victims of hate crimes in pretty much any major city. Trans women are murdered at ridiculously high rates. LGBT people have high rates of suicide and homelessness and are often thrown out of their own homes by their own parents. Just because you personally don't see LGBT people constantly "cowering in fear and praying for our lives" means conservatives have it just as hard as us? Give me a break.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
Yes, pretty much every medical school I can think of is a blue area on the map that was shared. Gay jokes are, by definition, anti-LGBT.
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If you can’t laugh about yourself, that’s a personal problem.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
Sorry, but you are just wrong. Gay people are the victims of hate crimes in pretty much any major city. Trans women are murdered at ridiculously high rates. LGBT people have high rates of suicide and homelessness and are often thrown out of their own homes by their own parents. Just because you personally don't see LGBT people constantly "cowering in fear and praying for our lives" means conservatives have it just as hard as us? Give me a break.
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The LGBT community in the US consists of something like 11 million people. The FBI's hate crime statistics (which are based on very broad, loose definitions) state that there are under 1,500 annual "hate incidents" against LGBT individuals in the entire country. I'm sorry, but there's no epidemic of violence against people in the LGBT community in the US, and there's nothing dangerous about being openly gay here.

It is absolutely true (and deeply unfortunate) that LGBT people have higher rates of suicide and homelessness than the general population. These issues are likely related to the greater predisposition that LGBT people have toward suffering from severe mental illness. Because this topic is taboo, not enough research has been done on it, and too many people jump to the conclusion that "discrimination" and "persecution" are the culprits. It may very well be the case that there are psychiatric comorbidities that stem from the same complex, polygenic predisposition that contributes to homosexual/non-binary preferences.
 
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Osminog said:
These issues are likely related to the greater predisposition that LGBT people have toward suffering from severe mental illness.
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Which is likely due to the discrimination faced by LGBT people.

There are plenty of studies that show that LGBT people do much better in supportive environments. Suicide by trans teens is essentially zero when they have parents who support them.

It seems like you are trying to deny the existence of discrimination against LGBT people. I can assure you, as an LGBT person, I have absolutely faced discrimination. It seems as though you are not one and are not qualified to speak on the topic.
 
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EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
Which is likely due to the discrimination faced by LGBT people.

There are plenty of studies that show that LGBT people do much better in supportive environments. Suicide by trans teens is essentially zero when they have parents who support them.
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The transgender suicide rate is extremely high even in very egalitarian, social justice-oriented countries, such as Sweden. It seems that the environment can't tell the entire story here. Unfortunately, it's challenging for Western researchers to receive funding for studies that explore alternative hypotheses (since the implications of such hypotheses are politically incorrect). As a result, it's just thoughtlessly assumed that the high trans suicide rate, which is comparable to the suicide rate of those who resided in Nazi concentration camps during WWII, stems solely from environmental causes.
 
Osminog said:
The transgender suicide rate is extremely high even in very egalitarian, social justice-oriented countries, such as Sweden. It seems that the environment can't tell the entire story here. Unfortunately, it's challenging for Western researchers to receive funding for studies that explore alternative hypotheses (since the implications of such hypotheses are politically incorrect). As a result, it's just thoughtlessly assumed that the high trans suicide rate, which is comparable to the suicide rate of those who resided in Nazi concentration camps during WWII, stems solely from environmental causes.
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I looked up the Swedish studies and they report high rates of discrimination against the trans population.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
I looked up the Swedish studies and they report high rates of discrimination against the trans population.
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Since the beginning of this year, it has been illegal in Sweden to express "hate speech" about members of the LGBT community; you can be thrown in jail and/or fined in Sweden if you dare to as much as insult a person's sexual identity or orientation. In Sweden, trans people have been allowed to change their legal sex since the 1972. According to Rainbow Europe, it's one of the top ten most LGBT-friendly countries in Europe. The annual pride parade in Stockholm attracts almost half a million participants and spectators. Outside of its ever-growing (and virulently anti-LGBT) Muslim community, Sweden doesn't have a serious anti-LGBT discrimination problem.

Suicidality seems to be a problem for trans people regardless of what environment they're exposed to. The "discrimination" stuff is just a cop-out that aligns with some people's political biases but fails to actually help trans people. We need to start heavily funding psychiatric, neurological, and genetic research on the subject of mental illness in the LGBT community, even if we're afraid that the results will make us feel uncomfortable.
 
This thread has spiraled and proven why OP was hesitant writing about her experiences in the first place. She should be able to speak openly about being a sexualized violence support person without having the validity or volume of these traumas questioned, and made a total of 0 statements about conservatives or conservatism. Plus, I think she had her question answered

Tagging a mod before we dive deeper into this discussion about the DSM-II's views on what constitutes a sexual disorder @Matthew9Thirtyfive
 
Osminog said:
The "discrimination" stuff is just a cop-out
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My bad. You’re right. Discrimination doesn’t exist. Thank you for explaining this to me, invalidating all my personal experiences with discrimination, and insinuating I’m mentally ill for being different than you.
 
EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
My bad. You’re right. Discrimination doesn’t exist. Thank you for explaining this to me, invalidating all my personal experiences with discrimination, and insinuating I’m mentally ill for being different than you.
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I'm okay with straw man arguments, but this one's too much of a stretch even for my taste.
 
labscience said:
This thread has spiraled and proven why OP was hesitant writing about her experiences in the first place. She should be able to speak openly about being a sexualized violence support person without having the validity or volume of these traumas questioned, and made a total of 0 statements about conservatives or conservatism. Plus, I think she had her question answered

Tagging a mod before we dive deeper into this discussion about the DSM-II's views on what constitutes a sexual disorder @Matthew9Thirtyfive
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Someone made a post claiming that red areas are basically hate areas and that’s what lead us here
 
labscience said:
This thread has spiraled and proven why OP was hesitant writing about her experiences in the first place. She should be able to speak openly about being a sexualized violence support person without having the validity or volume of these traumas questioned, and made a total of 0 statements about conservatives or conservatism. Plus, I think she had her question answered

Tagging a mod before we dive deeper into this discussion about the DSM-II's views on what constitutes a sexual disorder @Matthew9Thirtyfive
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Med schools would probably be fine with it save for some deeply Christian schools, but most people do not care what you identify as long as you aren't obnoxious about it.
 
thegrind33 said:
Someone made a post claiming that red areas are basically hate areas and that’s what lead us here
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I apologize OP. No intent of spiral. I hope your question was addressed, directly or indirectly. Suggested to OP areas to avoid. My point was proven. Again OP, sorry we cannot talk about the tendencies of certain geographic locals to being more or less tolerant of LGBT populations without a member of the non-lgbt community making themselves the victim.
 
MemeLord said:
I apologize OP. No intent of spiral. I hope your question was addressed, directly or indirectly. Suggested to OP areas to avoid. My point was proven. Again OP, sorry we cannot talk about the tendencies of certain geographic locals to being more or less tolerant of LGBT populations without a member of the non-lgbt community making themselves the victim.
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I’m not making myself a victim, I pointed out a very prejudiced and hateful comment you made generalizing areas of America.
 
This thread is a good topic with good information, so I would prefer to not close it. That said, mod action will be taken if it doesn’t stay on topic. This thread is not the place to discuss the DSM or any thing along those lines. It is not about political lines.

Keep the discussion to the topic of including the activities listed in the OP.

There will be no more in thread warnings. If you post off topic in the thread after this, there will be action taken.
 
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