How to Zone Out of SDN? Why MD v. DO?

[iamdamiancray]

I am an immigrant turned US citizen. My father is a neurologist. He attained a D.O. degree from the NYITCOM émigré program. I watched him as he went through medical school. I was inspired to be a D.O. I was always academically bright. Let alone saying I scored in the 98th percentile of the SATs and a 4.5/4.0 high school GPA. In my senior year, I got into 14/17 colleges that I applied to. I had to decide between going premed at Berkeley, BS/DO, or BS/MD at SLU Medical School. I committed to BS/DO instead of BS/MD because I felt more personally connected to the DO route. One day, I discovered this SDN site. I maintained a 4.0 throughout undergrad and outperformed many non BS/DO students who went to MD schools. Suddenly after seeing the negativity that is spread among SDNers about the DO's really make me questions my existence. I am getting negatively obsessed over this whole MD v. DO comparison. Why. I never really felt bad about my choice to go to a DO school over an MD school until now that I am here at SDN, AFTER getting into both types of medical school and kicking thousands of students in the abdomen. I am kicking butts in the BS/DO program; however, I feel that I will not be valued as much anymore like I used to when I dreamt of becoming a DO when I was in middle school because of SDN. I feel every time that if I had accepted my BS/MD acceptance, I would be doing much better in regards to the society? There are many in SDN to demotivate. Is there anyone to actually motivate, which was particularly a reason why SDN was created? I am doing work as a robot because of this hatred; I am doing the work well but I feel empty. I am not enjoying my accomplishments. I am not enjoying family time. A sea full of negativity splashes through my mind thinking all it would have taken for me to be on the safe side of the internet would be to just have accepted my BS/MD. SDN is making me feel down for what I wanted; as if I should not be happy or content with life. I am just in a mixed place where I can not stop thinking how my life would have been happier going into my MD school, which logically makes no sense. I am upset, confused, irritated. It really did not have to be this hard. There are many medical degrees in the world; US decides to have only two and suddenly everyone has to condescend one or the other. Do they not understand the hard work we have to go through?

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[Lawpy]

why not just focus on what makes you happy and ignore what anyone else says?

it's not meant to be dismissive. i'm honestly just confused as to why you're fixating so much on what SDN says.

 

[zero0]

Sounds like you realized you made a mistake and are now kicking yourself for not doing your due diligence before signing up for your degree program, sound about right?

We all make mistakes. Make the best of your situation and work hard. Hard work is rewarded. You'll still get where you want to be if you manage to have a good attitude. Best of luck going forward!

 

[Sardonix]

You will be fine if you work hard, keep your head down, and research each step on the path to becoming a doctor. Don't let a website distract you and give you anxiety.

 

[deleted1001426]

Just ignore the sdn bias. Sure it’s going to be harder to get into certain Specialties as a DO and a handful of elitist premeds might judge you but who cares. Once you get into practice no one gives a hoot what the letters after your name are. If you feel closely aligned with osteopathy then go to a DO school

 

[Norwood-Sano]

Throw the site in your “blocked” folder so you can’t access it. Once you’re in med school you will be too busy to worry about this type of stuff. You can still be the same doctor you originally set out to be so focus on that.

 

[Lawpy]

Just ignore the sdn bias. Sure it’s going to be harder to get into certain Specialties as a DO and a handful of elitist premeds might judge you but who cares. Once you get into practice no one gives a hoot what the letters after your name are. If you feel closely aligned with osteopathy then go to a DO school

Good thing no one cares what elitist premeds think!

SDN gets demoralizing at time largely because some of the expert advice and data can be bit brutal and some people can post panic threads worrying about failing courses, boards, rotations etc. It's really just noise, and instead, it's important to really focus what's important on here and ignore the distractions. No one cares what an internet forum thinks about MD vs DO, since it's just a tired argument that leads to flame wars.

SDN receives a lot of value due to very good advice that has been indexed in many directories. It's better to strictly follow the advice on the forum and ignore the noise, condescension, flame wars that can be typical of internet communities given their anonymous nature.

 

[FalconSlice]

I'd like to assume you already truly know the difference between MD and DO because you feel "more personally connected to the DO route" but it's difficult to tell. If you made an informed decision, you should already know.

If that's true...in that case, it seems like you are struggling with what you truly want to do versus your insecurity of what other people might think of you? I'll leave a Churchill quote here (presumably): "When you’re 20, you care what everyone thinks, when you’re 40 you stop caring what everyone thinks, when you’re 60, you realize no-one was ever thinking of you in the first place"

Also, please don't post multiple identical threads.

How to Zone Out of SDN? Why MD v. DO?

I am an immigrant turned US citizen. My father is a neurologist. He attained a D.O. degree from the NYITCOM émigré program. I watched him as he went through medical school. I was inspired to be a D.O. I was always academically bright. Let alone saying I scored in the 98th percentile of the SATs...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

I am an immigrant turned US citizen. My father is a neurologist. He attained a D.O. degree from the NYITCOM émigré program. I watched him as he went through medical school. I was inspired to be a D.O. I was always academically bright. Let alone saying I scored in the 98th percentile of the SATs and a 4.5/4.0 high school GPA. In my senior year, I got into 14/17 colleges that I applied to. I had to decide between going premed at Berkeley, BS/DO, or BS/MD at SLU Medical School. I committed to BS/DO instead of BS/MD because I felt more personally connected to the DO route. One day, I discovered this SDN site. I maintained a 4.0 throughout undergrad and outperformed many non BS/DO students who went to MD schools. Suddenly after seeing the negativity that is spread among SDNers about the DO's really make me questions my existence. I am getting negatively obsessed over this whole MD v. DO comparison. Why. I never really felt bad about my choice to go to a DO school over an MD school until now that I am here at SDN, AFTER getting into both types of medical school and kicking thousands of students in the abdomen. I am kicking butts in the BS/DO program; however, I feel that I will not be valued as much anymore like I used to when I dreamt of becoming a DO when I was in middle school because of SDN. I feel every time that if I had accepted my BS/MD acceptance, I would be doing much better in regards to the society? There are many in SDN to demotivate. Is there anyone to actually motivate, which was particularly a reason why SDN was created? I am doing work as a robot because of this hatred; I am doing the work well but I feel empty. I am not enjoying my accomplishments. I am not enjoying family time. A sea full of negativity splashes through my mind thinking all it would have taken for me to be on the safe side of the internet would be to just have accepted my BS/MD. SDN is making me feel down for what I wanted; as if I should not be happy or content with life. I am just in a mixed place where I can not stop thinking how my life would have been happier going into my MD school, which logically makes no sense. I am upset, confused, irritated. It really did not have to be this hard. There are many medical degrees in the world; US decides to have only two and suddenly everyone has to condescend one or the other. Do they not understand the hard work we have to go through?

Can you switch into the BS/MD program? Or finish your BD degree and apply MD? I’m not sure if you would have been happier going MD but there would be more doors open to you.

 

[Goro]

I am an immigrant turned US citizen. My father is a neurologist. He attained a D.O. degree from the NYITCOM émigré program. I watched him as he went through medical school. I was inspired to be a D.O. I was always academically bright. Let alone saying I scored in the 98th percentile of the SATs and a 4.5/4.0 high school GPA. In my senior year, I got into 14/17 colleges that I applied to. I had to decide between going premed at Berkeley, BS/DO, or BS/MD at SLU Medical School. I committed to BS/DO instead of BS/MD because I felt more personally connected to the DO route. One day, I discovered this SDN site. I maintained a 4.0 throughout undergrad and outperformed many non BS/DO students who went to MD schools. Suddenly after seeing the negativity that is spread among SDNers about the DO's really make me questions my existence. I am getting negatively obsessed over this whole MD v. DO comparison. Why. I never really felt bad about my choice to go to a DO school over an MD school until now that I am here at SDN, AFTER getting into both types of medical school and kicking thousands of students in the abdomen. I am kicking butts in the BS/DO program; however, I feel that I will not be valued as much anymore like I used to when I dreamt of becoming a DO when I was in middle school because of SDN. I feel every time that if I had accepted my BS/MD acceptance, I would be doing much better in regards to the society? There are many in SDN to demotivate. Is there anyone to actually motivate, which was particularly a reason why SDN was created? I am doing work as a robot because of this hatred; I am doing the work well but I feel empty. I am not enjoying my accomplishments. I am not enjoying family time. A sea full of negativity splashes through my mind thinking all it would have taken for me to be on the safe side of the internet would be to just have accepted my BS/MD. SDN is making me feel down for what I wanted; as if I should not be happy or content with life. I am just in a mixed place where I can not stop thinking how my life would have been happier going into my MD school, which logically makes no sense. I am upset, confused, irritated. It really did not have to be this hard. There are many medical degrees in the world; US decides to have only two and suddenly everyone has to condescend one or the other. Do they not understand the hard work we have to go through?

Suggest that you talk to a therapist. This is not medical advice.

And then block SDN

 

[BlueBleck]

i'm honestly just confused as to why you're fixating so much on what SDN says.

I think it's that most people IRL are neutral to mild negative on the degree. But most appear neutral outwardly. So it can come as a surprise to some see an entire forum of DOs loathe DOs.

No matter what school you go to or how you feel, the negativity is lame and hard to dismiss. I went to a top ten public. The lower 5, so UCSD/UCI/UCSB. We aren't slouches, but we never thought of ourselves as prestigious. But we never said we're dumb because we weren't at harvard or whatever.

But when I visited my friend at a cal state (a much much lower tier school), lots of his classmates would say things like, "oh we're just idiots at a cal state," completely unprompted after they knew where I went. Like **** dudes. I don't look down on you guys even a fraction as much as you look down on yourselves. And I certainly don't think UCI/UCSB/UCSD, of all schools, should make you feel inferior.

I think that experience is basically the MD/DO experience on SDN. We offer a lot of negativity often unprompted to the point where it's kind of jarring. And if you stay for a while, it can feel like you're coming off as ignorant if you express any positivity about your experience. This is what a negativity echo chamber does to you.

And I agree with the others about the 2nd part. Sounds like burnout/depression. +1 to talking with someone trusted about it.

 

[Ultimax]

Let me tell you from the perspective of a nurse, it doesnt matter much if you are MD or DO. When I was the nurse case manager, I was pleasantly surprised to be able to call a DO family physician and he was courteous, polite, understanding, and patient to help me address the patient’s hypertension. But when I was working in the hospital, some MDs are just straightforward a**hole. Be the physician and your colleagues and students respect, dont be the one that instill fear in others, and make others celebrate when you quit or leave.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Can you switch into the BS/MD program? Or finish your BD degree and apply MD? I’m not sure if you would have been happier going MD but there would be more doors open to you.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Thanks to you as well and to answer you regarding this, I asked myself this particular question before and got a reply it was my choice to follow my father into going the DO route over taking the MD route. I never really valued the MD degree over the DO and considered it to be two medical degrees (like MBBS and MBChB) till SDN made my gunner self realize oh boy you should have gotten this MD degree cuz u had the grades for it. I memorized the four tenets of osteopathic medicine when I was 12; what should I answer to that 12 year old guy?

Kinda to add to my previous thought: It is also not that I am the only guy who left a brand name like Berkeley for this BS/DO program; my other peers who were selected for the program were valedictorians and salutatorians and left their UCLA and UC Davis acceptances to be here. In general, the majority of BS/DO population represents valedictorians and salutatorians who are here because they see a future with the DO. I really do not know how they are feeling about their decisions either but I am here in SDN making a thread about it for those who thinks that all DO's are MD-rejects; there are DO's who wanted to be DO's, equally, if not more, bright, talented, new-generation gunners, and SDN just dries us out of our motivation. I wonder how it is like to be an UK med student cuz they have like 4-5 medical degrees, and here we have only two and we fight about it all the time... in our backs.

The more I delve into this whole MD v. DO thing and get used to the stereotypes do I realize that I actually made my family proud to, in turn, feel insecure about my liking and happiness from what SDN, which kinda represents society to a little extent, has to say. I will be graduating years after the merge, which makes our future ambiguous but our present strong; maybe it is time for people like us to work and make a good name for the DO's. I never want to speak about this to my father again who had his fair share of struggles to be here; I would disrespect him this way because he told me to go forward thinking of the future and keeping up with my hard work. He went from a guy who had no food to eat when he was a kid to an American neurologist. No MD residencies, let alone MD schools, would look at him twice. It was a DO school, and the only medical school in the US which allows an FMG to become an AMG, who gave him a chance to be someone. I am indebted to this community; if I sacrificed the brands I had the ability to put on myself for that ideal, I guess I will be on the same boat as my father, who is old enough to not give a penny about MD/DO. At the end, it is a career.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

What do you see yourself doing in 10 yrs? FM, IM, primary care? If so, dont worry, everything will be just fine. Surgical specialty, Onc, IR, will be significantly harder as you know. So if you have affection for DOs and are interested in primary care, then your decision is easy. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

It’s SDN.. full of self-hating neurotic over-achievers and egotistical blow-hard know-it-all’s.
You should only come here for the humor and to laugh at the aforementioned stereotypes. Anything else is masochistic at best.

 

[Dr. Death]

Stop kicking students in the abdomen. Start there

 

[Scrubs101]

SDN isnt where you go to feel good about yourself. Its where you go to get the hard non-sugar coated facts, talk with people who know their stuff* that arent going to lie to you to cover their back* like people in real life, complain* about everything medical field related, debate the same beaten to death topics over and over, and the occasional dank meme (though reddit does have us beat here for sure)

edited because i probably cuss too much*

 

[deleted936470]

It’s SDN.. full of self-hating neurotic over-achievers and egotistical blow-hard know-it-all’s.
You should only come here for the humor and to laugh at the aforementioned stereotypes. Anything else is masochistic at best.

How dare you call me an over-achiever

 

[deleted866049]

@iamdamiancray If it makes you feel any better, many people in my DO school went to "prestigious" universities - WashU, Pitt, UW Madison, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, UC Berkeley, UCLA + many other UC's, etc while others went to state schools. If you're already in the DO program, it doesn't matter what others think. Do you still want to be a physician? When you start practicing, there will be no difference or discrimination between your MD peers in terms your scope of practice + what others think about you.

 

[Osminog]

I. DOs have a harder time matching into competitive specialties, surgical specialties, and elite programs in noncompetitive specialties than their MD counterparts.
II. DO school matriculants have lower academic credentials (GPA and MCAT) than MD school matriculants, on average.
III. DOs have to take more board exams than their MD counterparts if they want to be competitive in the post-merger match.
IV. New DO schools are sprouting up every year, and they're inevitably going to start scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill seats.
V. Much of OMM is unscientific and founded primarily on tradition, anecdotes, and speculation.

All of these are indisputable facts, regardless of how uncomfortable or frustrated they may make us feel. I don't think SDN should be a place where we put on our rose-tinted glasses and pretend like there's no difference between the DO and the MD paths. There is a difference, and SDN must be a place where pre-meds can be educated on this difference; many undergrads have incompetent pre-med advisors, so they won't be able to get this information from anywhere else.

With the above being said, OP, I'm sorry that you're feeling unhappy and confused. Nobody on SDN would tell you that you should "not feel happy or content with life." If you've considered the downsides of the DO path and still think that it's the right path for you, then go to DO school. Where you go to medical school isn't going to be the be-all and end-all of your professional life. If you graduate from DO school and complete a residency, you will be a practicing physician, with all of the same responsibilities and privileges as your MD peers.

 

[iamdamiancray]

I. DOs have a harder time matching into competitive specialties, surgical specialties, and elite programs in noncompetitive specialties than their MD counterparts.
II. DO school matriculants have lower academic credentials (GPA and MCAT) than MD school matriculants, on average.
III. DOs have to take more board exams than their MD counterparts if they want to be competitive in the post-merger match.
IV. New DO schools are sprouting up every year, and they're inevitably going to start scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill seats.
V. Much of OMM is unscientific and founded primarily on tradition, anecdotes, and speculation.

All of these are indisputable facts, regardless of how uncomfortable or frustrated they may make us feel. I don't think SDN should be a place where we put on our rose-tinted glasses and pretend like there's no difference between the DO and the MD paths. There is a difference, and SDN must be a place where pre-meds can be educated on this difference; many undergrads have incompetent pre-med advisors, so they won't be able to get this information from anywhere else.

With the above being said, OP, I'm sorry that you're feeling unhappy and confused. Nobody on SDN would tell you that you should "not feel happy or content with life." If you've considered the downsides of the DO path and still think that it's the right path for you, then go to DO school. Where you go to medical school isn't going to be the be-all and end-all of your professional life. If you graduate from DO school and complete a residency, you will be a practicing physician, with all of the same responsibilities and privileges as your MD peers.

Thank you for your reply. You know my friend, I have been listening to your five points so many times from so many people and sources, I can almost recall them from memory. I either have made the biggest mistake of my life or made the best decision; only time will reveal what it was. Perhaps, let me continue gunning, as that is what I can do; hopefully, my work leads me somewhere, God Willing.

 

[hallowmann]

It should also be noted that while some people struggle immensely to even do mediocre on boards, do research, develop a competitive app, etc. coming from a DO school, many of us do fine and end up in the fields we wanted most.

I may not be in anything nearly as competitive as the surgical subspecialties, but I matched into a field with few spots. Someone else I know that I learned went to my same school went into a decent ACGME OB/Gyn program, and their spouse who also went to my school is finishing an ACGME Plastics fellowship at a University program after completing ACGME GenSurg, neither of which were formerly DO programs. I have another friend that is finishing up RadOnc.

It may be rare and you shouldn't be expecting to match whatever and wherever you want, because invariably the DO degree does limit your residency options, but it doesn't mean it's impossible to overcome these limits. Most people that I know that were successful were extremely intelligent, hardworking, they persevered and were willing to sacrifice more than most to achieve their goals.

 

[FistLength]

I am an immigrant turned US citizen. My father is a neurologist. He attained a D.O. degree from the NYITCOM émigré program. I watched him as he went through medical school. I was inspired to be a D.O. I was always academically bright. Let alone saying I scored in the 98th percentile of the SATs and a 4.5/4.0 high school GPA. In my senior year, I got into 14/17 colleges that I applied to. I had to decide between going premed at Berkeley, BS/DO, or BS/MD at SLU Medical School. I committed to BS/DO instead of BS/MD because I felt more personally connected to the DO route. One day, I discovered this SDN site. I maintained a 4.0 throughout undergrad and outperformed many non BS/DO students who went to MD schools. Suddenly after seeing the negativity that is spread among SDNers about the DO's really make me questions my existence. I am getting negatively obsessed over this whole MD v. DO comparison. Why. I never really felt bad about my choice to go to a DO school over an MD school until now that I am here at SDN, AFTER getting into both types of medical school and kicking thousands of students in the abdomen. I am kicking butts in the BS/DO program; however, I feel that I will not be valued as much anymore like I used to when I dreamt of becoming a DO when I was in middle school because of SDN. I feel every time that if I had accepted my BS/MD acceptance, I would be doing much better in regards to the society? There are many in SDN to demotivate. Is there anyone to actually motivate, which was particularly a reason why SDN was created? I am doing work as a robot because of this hatred; I am doing the work well but I feel empty. I am not enjoying my accomplishments. I am not enjoying family time. A sea full of negativity splashes through my mind thinking all it would have taken for me to be on the safe side of the internet would be to just have accepted my BS/MD. SDN is making me feel down for what I wanted; as if I should not be happy or content with life. I am just in a mixed place where I can not stop thinking how my life would have been happier going into my MD school, which logically makes no sense. I am upset, confused, irritated. It really did not have to be this hard. There are many medical degrees in the world; US decides to have only two and suddenly everyone has to condescend one or the other. Do they not understand the hard work we have to go through?

First things first. SDN is great and allows students "full disclosure" into the best and worst aspects of specialties and degrees, including the DO degree. All of its criticisms towards the DO degree are true(read Osminog et al). Secondly, in the "real world", people judge you by your work ethic, amicability, etc, not by your degree. I matched in one of the notoriously anti-DO specialties, and most of my co residents (and attendings) are from ivy league colleges/med schools, the DO degree is never mentioned and no one cares.

You have too much pride. Learn to make fun of yourself. I do constantly, especially when a DO student happens to rotate with us ( a missed opportunity to trash OMM is a grave one indeed!). Relish the idea of being a little DO in a big MD world and making a difference. A chair of a department, my "adviser" in med school, and multiple people on admission committees told me not to apply to this specialty because I was a DO, but I used their doubt to embolden my efforts.

You can drown in your self pity or use the negativity as rocket fuel.

 

[iamdamiancray]

First things first. SDN is great and allows students "full disclosure" into the best and worst aspects of specialties and degrees, including the DO degree. All of its criticisms towards the DO degree are true(read Osminog et al). Secondly, in the "real world", people judge you by your work ethic, amicability, etc, not by your degree. I matched in one of the notoriously anti-DO specialties, and most of my co residents (and attendings) are from ivy league colleges/med schools, the DO degree is never mentioned and no one cares.

You have too much pride. Learn to make fun of yourself. I do constantly, especially when a DO student happens to rotate with us ( a missed opportunity to trash OMM is a grave one indeed!). Relish the idea of being a little DO in a big MD world and making a difference. A chair of a department, my "adviser" in med school, and multiple people on admission committees told me not to apply to this specialty because I was a DO, but I used their doubt to embolden my efforts.

You can drown in your self pity or use the negativity as rocket fuel.

YAAASSS! Thank you!