How was the competitiveness for EM in 2010? what about NYC?

[traxxradiorocks]

I've been searching through this forum and found mostly info from previous years (older info).
Just wondering, how competitive it was for you guys in 2010? How about the NYC programs?

I am a Canadian (did my undergrad in UBC) currently going to a top 20 med school in US. My Step 1 ain't too hot.... only a 224/96 and my grades are so-so, all HPs so far. I haven't done my EM AI yet but I am quite likeable (great evals so far).
I heard that NYC programs would prefer people from NYC. Is that correct or just hearsay? I actually worked as a biotech consultant at a firm in NYC for 3 years while getting an advanced degree from NYU part-time. Does that count?


Am I automatically out of the pool for NYC residency because of my score and my "visa status"?
I am interested in the Beth Isarel, NYU and Brooklyn Hospital programs.

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[gro2001]

Despite rejection emails from programs citing 'unprecedented' numbers of applicants, the conventional wisdom seems to be that the programs are just being nice and this year is not terribly more competetive than any other year. Having said that, EM is a competetive field, and NYC is a desirable location.

Do well on Step 2, do aways in NYC (and obviously do as well as you can on them). I would recommend doing them at places you reckon you have a shot at, and not at programs that are always cited on the 'top X programs list' (Jacobi/Monte, NYU, etc). Apply to most (if not all) NYC programs if you know this is where you want to end up. You are going to be an AMG with apparently no red flags. There are FMGs in NYC EM programs (although not many). You should be OK, even in NYC.

 

[quicknss]

it all comes down to your letter of rec from a NYC program since all the faculty know each other. and a good step 2 score doesn't hurt. Doing an away at a big time county program in NYC (bellevue, jacobi, kings county) and doing well gives you a lot of "street-cred"

 

[traxxradiorocks]

Just hope that my extracurricular stuff would offset my low step score.
I've been doing a lot of stuff in the community, research, presented at a conference, a couple poster conferences, etc.

This blows. I was hoping for NYU....

 

[Apollyon]

Just hope that my extracurricular stuff would offset my low step score.
I've been doing a lot of stuff in the community, research, presented at a conference, a couple poster conferences, etc.

This blows. I was hoping for NYU....

Are you serious about your "low" step I? Seriously?

206 is a low step. 190 is a low step. There are a BUNCH of residents and attendings here that got less than 224 on step I. Recall that the 96 is 96/100. That is NOT low.

 

[quicknss]

Despite rejection emails from programs citing 'unprecedented' numbers of applicants, the conventional wisdom seems to be that the programs are just being nice and this year is not terribly more competetive than any other year. Having said that, EM is a competetive field, and NYC is a desirable location.

Do well on Step 2, do aways in NYC (and obviously do as well as you can on them). I would recommend doing them at places you reckon you have a shot at, and not at programs that are always cited on the 'top X programs list' (Jacobi/Monte, NYU, etc). Apply to most (if not all) NYC programs if you know this is where you want to end up. You are going to be an AMG with apparently no red flags. There are FMGs in NYC EM programs (although not many). You should be OK, even in NYC.

Are you serious about your "low" step I? Seriously?

206 is a low step. 190 is a low step. There are a BUNCH of residents and attendings here that got less than 224 on step I. Recall that the 96 is 96/100. That is NOT low.

Yeah man, relax. your step 1 is fine and most ER programs could really care less- this is not optho or derm. This is all about your clinical performance on your aways. Relax and have some fun; enjoy life.

 

[joecole]

For IMG's in this years match...what was your consensus on the competitiveness?

 

[traxxradiorocks]

Thanks for the comforting, guys.
My attending was trying to do the same too.
I was worried and considered my score "low" because of my visa status (F1) though the attending kept reminding me that I am considered a AMG ..... Well, unless my BF proposed to me this year..... though he knows I am not interested in getting married.......

What pisses me off is that my neighbor got a 235/96 (we have the same 2 digit score) haha.

 

[gro2001]

This blows. I was hoping for NYU....

I did not mean to discourage you. If you want NYU, go for it. What people said above is right, your score is not low. And aways count for a lot. Perhaps its best to do one away at NYU and one at a less competitive place, to maximize your chances in NYC. Then again, if your clinical performance is good, you might be competitive enough not to need to do that.

 

[traxxradiorocks]

I did not mean to discourage you. If you want NYU, go for it. What people said above is right, your score is not low. And aways count for a lot. Perhaps its best to do one away at NYU and one at a less competitive place, to maximize your chances in NYC. Then again, if your clinical performance is good, you might be competitive enough not to need to do that.

Cool! Will definitely do one at NYU and hope for the best then.
What are some of the less competitive places? I know the Presb program is competitive. What about SUNY, Methodist, etc?

 

[gro2001]

Cool! Will definitely do one at NYU and hope for the best then.
What are some of the less competitive places? I know the Presb program is competitive. What about SUNY, Methodist, etc?

Metropolitan, Maimonides, Staten Island University, New York Hospital Queens, Brooklyn Hospital.

I rotated at NYH Queens, and really liked it. Also, they take DOs.

Staten Island UH is a new place (opened last year). Program still has some kinks that need to be worked out. They have very energetic young faculty though.

(Before anyone slams me: this is a complete guess about how competitive the programs are, and not meant to be a reflection on their quality. As I said, I think NYHQ is in the 'less competitive' category but I really liked my experience there. If you think one of these programs is actually uber-competitive, you are probably right.)

 

[gutonc]

Cool! Will definitely do one at NYU and hope for the best then.
What are some of the less competitive places? I know the Presb program is competitive. What about SUNY, Methodist, etc?

SUNY Downstate, while crap for just about every other specialty (Neurology and Urology being notable exceptions) is phenomenal for EM. As good as NYU (but in a MUCH crappier neighborhood - increasing the knife/gun club factor).

Methodist OTOH....

 

[quicknss]

definitely second how awesome SUNY Downstate is for pathology and trauma but the lectures and faculty at NYU have a much greater emphasis on teaching which was a real deciding point for me.

 

[leorl]

Honestly, these programs I would also not consider "uncompetitive." All of these programs have very good things to offer and produce very good residents / attendings, with faculty members published in major textbooks and internationally. I don't know too much about Staten Island or Brooklyn hospital, but all of these are seeing 900+ applications to their programs for relatively few spots and none of these programs go unfilled. I think most of these programs will also not close their doors to FMGs, but match AMGs equally as well.

Metropolitan, Maimonides, Staten Island University, New York Hospital Queens, Brooklyn Hospital.

I rotated at NYH Queens, and really liked it. Also, they take DOs.

Staten Island UH is a new place (opened last year). Program still has some kinks that need to be worked out. They have very energetic young faculty though.

(Before anyone slams me: this is a complete guess about how competitive the programs are, and not meant to be a reflection on their quality. As I said, I think NYHQ is in the 'less competitive' category but I really liked my experience there. If you think one of these programs is actually uber-competitive, you are probably right.)

 

[coralfangs]

how bad is Methodist (especially you said OTOH....)?
A cardio attending whom I worked with back in NYC just laughed at me when I called him up today asking if I should do my away at Methodist. I might do it there because I can crash at a friend's empty apt for free for a month (she rarely stays there) and it's only 2 blocks from Methodist.

 

[traxxradiorocks]

oops... the MS4 forgot to logout.....
Anyway, my question is still the same. How bad is it?
Furthermore, I still have problems getting my schedule together.
How did you guys do your 4th year selectives w/ Step2?

I am thinking....
July- Home EM AI (to obtain 1 letter?)
Aug- Home Peds subspec + Step 2 (I might still go into Peds) (it's going to be a light month, mainly just to get a letter or two, working 9-3)
Sep- Away EM AI #1 at NYU? (to obtain another letter?)
Oct- Home Peds AI? (getting one letter for peds program)
Nov- Away EM AI #2 at Methodist, Queens, Brooklyn, or Maimonides?

If the AWAY EM AI #2 is so late in the application cycle, is it pretty much useless already?

how bad is Methodist (especially you said OTOH....)?
A cardio attending whom I worked with back in NYC just laughed at me when I called him up today asking if I should do my away at Methodist. I might do it there because I can crash at a friend's empty apt for free for a month (she rarely stays there) and it's only 2 blocks from Methodist.

 

[gro2001]

Honestly, these programs I would also not consider "uncompetitive." All of these programs have very good things to offer and produce very good residents / attendings, with faculty members published in major textbooks and internationally. I don't know too much about Staten Island or Brooklyn hospital, but all of these are seeing 900+ applications to their programs for relatively few spots and none of these programs go unfilled. I think most of these programs will also not close their doors to FMGs, but match AMGs equally as well.

I didn't say they weren't worth applying too. In fact, some of them are high on my rank list. As you mentioned, they have a lot to offer. I was merely comparing them to other NYC programs (NYU, Jacobi/Monte, Downstate, NYP) and compared to these other ones they are somewhat LESS competetive. Not uncompetetive, just less.

 

[gutonc]

oops... the MS4 forgot to logout.....
Anyway, my question is still the same. How bad is it?
Furthermore, I still have problems getting my schedule together.
How did you guys do your 4th year selectives w/ Step2?

If you don't mind not learning anything it's probably fine. I can't comment on their EM program (they didn't have one when I lived in Brooklyn) but their IM program is a joke. Not a particularly funny one either.

 

[Hamhock]

I don't really want any part of the "tell me if Methodist" is bad discussion, but I will second gutonc's opinion regardng SUNY-Downstate/Kings County (the phenomenal part)...

...and I will mention that I know many faculty and residents who are at Kings County and Downstate who live in the Methodist (Park Slope) area...the commute is a common and relatively short one, as very few folks would want to live near Downstate/Kings County.

HH

 

[gutonc]

...and I will mention that I know many faculty and residents who are at Kings County and Downstate who live in the Methodist (Park Slope) area...the commute is a common and relatively short one, as very few folks would want to live near Downstate/Kings County.

HH

Nobody wants to live near KCH. I commuted from the Slope for 9 years (med school+grad school) and it was a piece of cake.

 

[substanceP]

Just wondering, how competitive it was for you guys in 2010?

you should be a little above avg in your med school class to have a pretty good shot at matching.

How about the NYC programs?

a little above that

I am a Canadian (did my undergrad in UBC) currently going to a top 20 med school in US.

as long as you're in an american medical school, you're considered a US med school grad. that shouldn't be your concern. what you should be concerned about is visa status. if you are applying to residency but are not a US citizen or perm resident (green card holder) then you have to check with each residency program as to what their policy is regarding US-trained non-Americans (i.e. will they sponsor your visa while you're in residency).

I heard that NYC programs would prefer people from NYC.

just my opinion, but i think this is true regardless of geographic region. PDs want to know why you want to come to their program, and if you're from the area then it makes more sense that you want to come back.

I actually worked as a biotech consultant at a firm in NYC for 3 years while getting an advanced degree from NYU part-time. Does that count?

i'm sure this varies by program, but that is just my opinion

Am I automatically out of the pool for NYC residency because of my score and my "visa status"?

because of your score? no way. see apollyon's response. for your visa status? maybe. you'll have to check with programs individually.

now my plug for jacobi. i'm a pgy-4 there now. i think we're a very well-balanced program. tons of trauma, tons of very sick patients, and the nursing has improved by orders of magnitude since my intern year. many attendings teach, and many more will teach if asked. it's a great place to spend residency, i learned a lot, and i'm happy i came here. also, in your case in particular, i'm fairly certain JMC will sponsor your visa. one of the current residents is a graduate from a US medical school but is not a US citizen/green card holder. but to verify this i'd talk to tom (perera, the PD) or elizabeth (morales, the program coordinator).

--sp

 

[otacon88]

Thanks for the comforting, guys.
My attending was trying to do the same too.
I was worried and considered my score "low" because of my visa status (F1) though the attending kept reminding me that I am considered a AMG ..... Well, unless my BF proposed to me this year..... though he knows I am not interested in getting married.......

What pisses me off is that my neighbor got a 235/96 (we have the same 2 digit score) haha.

how does that work out? i got a 228, but my two digit is a 98?

 

[Jimmy1]

Not trying to stir the pot, but saying you won't learn anything at Methodist, coming from someone who (I assume) didn't work there, is not very credible.

Every program has it's good and bad points. Just go to the place you like.

 

[aguacate]

how does that work out? i got a 228, but my two digit is a 98?

You know, I've been wondering about that for a while. Does anyone actually know how the 2-digit score works?

 

[Apollyon]

You know, I've been wondering about that for a while. Does anyone actually know how the 2-digit score works?

Oh man, didn't anyone ever take (or pay attention in) a statistics class?

It's on the bell curve - since so many fewer people will obtain a 236 or 242, they will be in the same band, whereas those getting a 206 or 207 or 208, who are much more numerous, will get their own band. That is why someone gets a 98 for scores between, for example 238 and 245, and 206 gets an 82, 207 an 83, and so on. The 75/184 or 186 or whatever it is is just an arbitrary starting point, instead of zero - sort of like the "J to T" scale for writing on the MCAT. Arbitrary.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Oh man, didn't anyone ever take (or pay attention in) a statistics class?

It's on the bell curve - since so many fewer people will obtain a 236 or 242, they will be in the same band, whereas those getting a 206 or 207 or 208, who are much more numerous, will get their own band. That is why someone gets a 98 for scores between, for example 238 and 245, and 206 gets an 82, 207 an 83, and so on. The 75/184 or 186 or whatever it is is just an arbitrary starting point, instead of zero - sort of like the "J to T" scale for writing on the MCAT. Arbitrary.

That doesn't explain how otacon88's two digit score is higher than traxx's, but his three digit score is lower.

 

[Flushot]

That doesn't explain how otacon88's two digit score is higher than traxx's, but his three digit score is lower.

I thought it was that way because the second number scales you on how well you did in comparison to everyone else who took it that day. So even though his 3 digit number is lower, he did better than more people than traxx did, despite traxx having a higher overall score.

Apollyon kind of explained it like that too, although I could be wrong. Either way, the 3 digit score is what matters.

 

[Apollyon]

I thought it was that way because the second number scales you on how well you did in comparison to everyone else who took it that day. So even though his 3 digit number is lower, he did better than more people than traxx did, despite traxx having a higher overall score.

Apollyon kind of explained it like that too, although I could be wrong. Either way, the 3 digit score is what matters.

I thought it went year by year (such that a 230 this year could be a 96, whereas next year it could be a 97). The folks above don't state when they took it. If they took it in the same year, and one person's 2 digit is higher than the other with a higher 3 digit, then it is statistically grossly invalid. Although people say the 3 digit is what matters, truly, the 2 digit is supposed to be the "great equalizer".