How well do doctors get compensated

[viper2fast505]

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I was talking today with my premed friend whose dad is a doctor and he was telling me that no one should become a doctor because of the money. I totally agree but I told him that doctors still make a good living. Then he told me what his dad has told him that insurance companies will only pay for half what a surgery costs and the doctor will lose money. He didn’t want to talk about it much and said that neither do doctors. Is there any truth to this that insurance companies will not pay doctors all the money that a surgery costs? None of this makes since to me.

 

[deleted36260]

Doctors are regularly not reimbursed via insurance or medicare/medicaid for the cost billed. An amount is "negotiated" , or in the medicare case costs are predetermined by the government.

There are no poor doctors, but there also are not many OMG NIP/TUCK DRIVING A FERRARI doctors.

I'm from the lucrative world of IT. I have had more doctors tell me to stay out of medicine than go in it because of the reason we are talking about.

 

[CTSballer11]

I was talking today with my premed friend whose dad is a doctor and he was telling me that no one should become a doctor because of the money. I totally agree but I told him that doctors still make a good living. Then he told me what his dad has told him that insurance companies will only pay for half what a surgery costs and the doctor will lose money. He didn't want to talk about it much and said that neither do doctors. Is there any truth to this that insurance companies will not pay doctors all the money that a surgery costs? None of this makes since to me.

It is not that simple. Lately doctors and surgeons have been making less and less due to declining reimbursements from insurance companies, rising malpractice costs, etc. I am far from an expert but that seems to be the biggest problems facing the doctors and surgeons I have talked to.

 

[viper2fast505]

How come they don’t pay what the doctor asks you cant negotiate a price with a mechanic or McDonalds for that matter. I am not in it for the money, I want to help people but we are making so many hard sacrifices to be a doctor to have someone say you are not worth that this is what we will give you

 

[WatchingWaiting]

I was talking today with my premed friend whose dad is a doctor and he was telling me that no one should become a doctor because of the money. I totally agree but I told him that doctors still make a good living. Then he told me what his dad has told him that insurance companies will only pay for half what a surgery costs and the doctor will lose money. He didn't want to talk about it much and said that neither do doctors. Is there any truth to this that insurance companies will not pay doctors all the money that a surgery costs? None of this makes since to me.

Search for a salary survey. Compensation changes over time, there is huge variability by region and practice arrangement, academics vs. private practice, so caveat emptor. That being said, average earnings in primary care are about $150K per year. Surgical subspecialties, procedural medicine subspecialties are more like $300K per year. So, there is definitely a pay-off at the end of the long-road through med school and residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

How come they don’t pay what the doctor asks you cant negotiate a price with a mechanic or McDonalds for that matter. I am not in it for the money, I want to help people but we are making so many hard sacrifices to be a doctor to have someone say you are not worth that this is what we will give you

Welcome to the real world.

 

[PEN15]

How come they don’t pay what the doctor asks you cant negotiate a price with a mechanic or McDonalds for that matter. I am not in it for the money, I want to help people but we are making so many hard sacrifices to be a doctor to have someone say you are not worth that this is what we will give you

I don't know where you guys grew up but 300K a year, or hell even 150K a year is a lot of money. You're still going to have one of the highest incomes in the country. Doctors make enough to live very comfortably. If you want to make more then invest your money in stocks, real estate, or a side business - the opportunities are out there. Who says you can't do other things when you're a doctor?

 

[viper2fast505]

i think 150K would be awesome and i am not saying doctors dont make a lot of money, but the idea that insurance can tell you how much of your bill they will pay is wrong. and it just leads to doctors charging more money.

 

[CTSballer11]

Do you guys see any changes in the future that will affect how physicians are reimbursed? Do you see salaries going up or down? It seems that healthcare will be a big issue in the 08 presidential election. Since the dems took control of the house and senate they want to allow medicare etc, to negotiate with pharm companies to lower prescription drug prices. I am not really sure how this will affect physicians. Any opinions?

 

[DoctorMom78]

Doctors are regularly not reimbursed via insurance or medicare/medicaid for the cost billed. An amount is "negotiated" , or in the medicare case costs are predetermined by the government.

There are no poor doctors, but there also are not many OMG NIP/TUCK DRIVING A FERRARI doctors.

I'm from the lucrative world of IT. I have had more doctors tell me to stay out of medicine than go in it because of the reason we are talking about.

My father is an MD and I have worked in his office for years. Insurance companies reimburse on average about a third of what the doctor bills, but it varies. Then of course there is medicaid that reimburses about $8 for an office visit. Where I am from, doctors have been combing into huge multi-doctor groups and there are very few sole practioners anymore. Insurance reimbursements keep going down as well as the procedures they cover are being reduced, (but the patient premiums and copays keep going up). Doctors can no longer afford to practice alone. It is unfortunate because I think the quality of patient care been negatively impacted by this trend. I guess if you want to go into something for the money, you should be one of the top people at one of the insurance companies. You can actually do that as a doctor, (of course it might be easier to just sell your soul to the devil or something) I know of someone who does this and he actually gets a financial bonus for denying patient procedures, tests, etc. It is really disgusting! I would hope that no one would go into medicine for the money anyway. Not only is it morally wrong, but there have to be easier ways to make money. Just my opinion...😀

 

[peezyweezy]

check it out

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

 

[somemaybedoc]

My father is an MD and I have worked in his office for years. Insurance companies reimburse on average about a third of what the doctor bills, but it varies. Then of course there is medicaid that reimburses about $8 for an office visit. Where I am from, doctors have been combing into huge multi-doctor groups and there are very few sole practioners anymore. Insurance reimbursements keep going down as well as the procedures they cover are being reduced, (but the patient premiums and copays keep going up). Doctors can no longer afford to practice alone. It is unfortunate because I think the quality of patient care been negatively impacted by this trend. I guess if you want to go into something for the money, you should be one of the top people at one of the insurance companies. You can actually do that as a doctor, (of course it might be easier to just sell your soul to the devil or something) I know of someone who does this and he actually gets a financial bonus for denying patient procedures, tests, etc. It is really disgusting! I would hope that no one would go into medicine for the money anyway. Not only is it morally wrong, but there have to be easier ways to make money. Just my opinion...😀

We all seem to need a villain, but in a world where insurance companies compete with one another, the lack of reimbursement is an effort to reduce premium increases for patients so the insurance company can screw doctors to keep patients/employers from switching to a lower premium company that is already screwing doctors. Denying procedures is just a way for them to say they provide a service up front, while charging you less, so you think you are getting more for your money, but when it comes down to it the service isn't there.

Blaming the insurance companies has become too much of an easy out in a debate where there are no easy solutions. Costs are higher and someone will pay for them and everyone wants to pass them on to someone else (consumer to insurance companies and insurance companies to doctors and consumers.)

Doctors have a lose the most to rising costs because unlike the other two, who don't have a problem with holding up their end (paying for the service), doctors are a bit more altruistic and see the patients despite the lack of compensation.

 

[HALO3]

There are no poor doctors, but there also are not many OMG NIP/TUCK DRIVING A FERRARI doctors.

(unless your a spine surgeon) 😉

(make up to $1,352,000 a year)

you just might be able to buy a ferrari ha

 

[ebaydan777]

haha DANG neurological surgeons!!! haha 850+ per year thats a grip you can definitly live in Newport Beach, California on a couple million dollars worth of property with a nice ferrari 🙂......well my life-long dream is to be a cardiology surgeon.....hope they come true! but ill settle for anything in between at 250-400k a year....🙂

*EDIT*
i should add its not all about the money 🙂........SAVE THE LIVES IS THE IMPORTANT THING...screw insurance companies they are backstabbers in everything they do!

 

[Ema]

check it out

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

On this site I noticed that FP (w/o OB) in first two years could earn $161,000, and if practicing >3 years the amount is $135,000. What would be possible explanation for that, or is it just mistake?
Just wondering. Oh, this is just my pure curiosity for peculiar data, I am not really worried about how much docs get paid, I am sure what ever it is it will be more then enough for me.😀

 

[nighthawk3]

Yeah look at that list posted above. It's what I've always said - physicians still make a ton of money.

 

[Slide]

If money is such an issue take some business classes and invest your money on the side. The physician salary is enough to fund your needs with plenty to spare. If you invest wisely or have a few friends that can help you with this, you'll be Dr. Troy in no time.

 

[xpinchx]

You won't go hungry as a doctor, that's all that matters. Everything else is icing on the cake.

 

[fantasty]

On this site I noticed that FP (w/o OB) in first two years could earn $161,000, and if practicing >3 years the amount is $135,000. What would be possible explanation for that, or is it just mistake?
Just wondering. Oh, this is just my pure curiosity for peculiar data, I am not really worried about how much docs get paid, I am sure what ever it is it will be more then enough for me.😀

Dunno if this is the explanation, but perhaps a fair number of FP docs are older or only working part-time (compared to the fresh out of residency kids who are trying to work hard to pay their loans and start their families and who may not be as burned out yet)?

 

[Law2Doc]

check it out

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

This survey gets listed a lot on SDN because it is a bit too encouraging (i.e. not reflective of what the "average" person will earn). There is a JAMA table floating around on SDN someplace that is more realistic. According to the AMSA magazine a couple of months ago the average income of post residency physicians was $121k. Not everyone got the average. Specialties tended to be higher. And medicine has seen a reduction in income across the board of about 8% over the last 10 years, while most other professions have seen a rise by about the same amount over the last decade. At the same time average hours are inching up, expecially in the non- "lifestyle" specialties.

You will be quite comfortable in medicine. But I wouldn't start counting your future money as a premed. Best to go into the field because it interests or excites you and look at this other stuff as a possible perq., not a driving factor, and you won't be disappointed.

 

[ZCC]

I think docs are gonna start making more money again... I think the insurance thing is finally getting under control which is gonna free up alot of money... I agree with alot of comments and what i plan on doing with my job money is using it as a base to invest with.

read rich dad poor dad good place to start if interested on growing your finances.. thats if i get into med school ahahah

 

[Law2Doc]

I think docs are gonna start making more money again... I think the insurance thing is finally getting under control which is gonna free up alot of money...

Wishful thinking will get you nowhere. With a new congress and healthcare reforms likely back on the table, I think many people are expecting a growing of insurance involvement and power, not a lessening. (i.e. I have yet to ever hear a politician say that the problem with healthcare is that doctors aren't being paid enough).

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Doctors make alot of money. In fact, as a profession they make more than just about anyone (http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSee...be1c7ddfa4ecea5e4969220d634ad-216459060-er-4).

You'll hear people talk about "oh if you want to make money you need to go into business or law or IT." This is BS. There are tons of lawyers out there knocking down $40k a year. Some docs make this salary as well - they're called residents.

 

[deleted36260]

I don't know where you guys grew up but 300K a year, or hell even 150K a year is a lot of money. You're still going to have one of the highest incomes in the country. Doctors make enough to live very comfortably. If you want to make more then invest your money in stocks, real estate, or a side business - the opportunities are out there. Who says you can't do other things when you're a doctor?

A lot of money doesn't mean it's a LOT of money for the amount of work put in. We pay some engineers at my work 130k. No change of lawsuit. Only 4 years of school. Instant earning without 12+ years of debt accumalating. Still a life for your 20's.

No poor docs, but there are a LOT of better ways to make money.

 

[sistermike]

THose people above who posted about neuro surgery or vascular surgery -- sure, you will probably end up making an ass-load of money. In fact, if you go to medhunters.com, there is a position in Florida for a neurosurgeon at a busy neuro practice and the STARTING income is somewhere around $750,000and after 2 years of practice, it will be 1 MIL +. However, if you read it, it expalins that they are busy and that work hours will be 80+ a week. So, yes, those surgery sub-specialities give the doc an opportunity to make bank, however, you might as well plan on working up to 70 or 80 hours a week for the majority of your life. So your family will definitely enjoy the money!

I had a friend in high school who came from a doctor family. Both of his parents were docs -- his mom was an FP, and his dad was an ortho surgeon. I come from a small town of 15,000 people -- needless to say, his dad worked an ungodly amount of hours each week because he was one of the only ortho surgeons in our region. They probably made close to $450,000 between the two docs, but their son (my good friend) NEVER saw his parents. They basically gave him and his brother all the money they would ever want, but were never there to watch their to watch their basketball games, etc. So, as that type of doc, you are definitely giving up a lot to make that money. You have to ask yourself, "is it worth it?"

 

[H_Caulfield]

I think that we can probably just look to countries with completely communist healthcare for a pretty good estimation of what ours will be like, in the worst case scenario. If you look up specialist salaries in canada, you'll note that the average surgeon or specialist makes about 225k dollars per year (sure, the taxes are 55%, but that's not something specific to the physicians). In england, GENERAL practitioners make 80k pounds per year, which translates to about 150k dollars. That has to be close to, or even higher, than what many GPs here are making.

I'd say, on my limited knowledge, that the situation will only get better for primary care, and that surgeons will eventually drop...but probably no lower than 200-and-some thousand per year. I can't really see myself complaining about something like that...

 

[Kikaku21]

I think that we can probably just look to countries with completely communist healthcare for a pretty good estimation of what ours will be like, in the worst case scenario. If you look up specialist salaries in canada, you'll note that the average surgeon or specialist makes about 225k dollars per year (sure, the taxes are 55%, but that's not something specific to the physicians). In england, GENERAL practitioners make 80k pounds per year, which translates to about 150k dollars. That has to be close to, or even higher, than what many GPs here are making.

I'd say, on my limited knowledge, that the situation will only get better for primary care, and that surgeons will eventually drop...but probably no lower than 200-and-some thousand per year. I can't really see myself complaining about something like that...

You can't make the comparison of 80K lbs per year to 150K dollars. You have to look at it in real terms. A coke in the US costs a dollar and a coke in the UK costs a pound. So making 80K lbs in the UK is like making 80K dollars in the US.

Otherwise, you are right. Most countries with socialized healthcare still pay damn well. There is less gap between specialists and generalists, as you said. Maybe that is a good thing, considering how crappy preventive care is in the US.

 

[xylem29]

No for me, there's no point in making all that money if you can't spend time with your family and friends.

I'd say with 100K and up, that's pretty sweet.

Actually - with 70k+ you're pretty well off too.

 

[hursty]

Friday, November 10, 2006 (Uses today's exchange rate)
80,000 British Pound = 152,390 US Dollar

http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic

 

[sistermike]

No for me, there's no point in making all that money if you can't spend time with your family and friends.

I'd say with 100K and up, that's pretty sweet.

Actually - with 70k+ you're pretty well off too.

I HIGHLY doubt many people would consider going into medicine if they knew their payoff was only 70K. Not that money is everything; however, after spending 8 years in school and then another 3 - 7 years in residency and having massive loans, 70K wouldn't do much for you. Hell, most nurses make that easily after their overtime is figured in.

Regarding socialized health care -- I doubt that will happen anytime soon. There would be an enormous amount of opposition from our current docs, and other healthcare professionals. If you read literature regarding Canada's socialized healthcare system, it isn't this godsend perfect system. In fact, many people have to wait months to get simple procedures done. Also, in Canada, as far as I understand, many people do still invest in health insurance.

 

[CTSballer11]

THose people above who posted about neuro surgery or vascular surgery -- sure, you will probably end up making an ass-load of money. In fact, if you go to medhunters.com, there is a position in Florida for a neurosurgeon at a busy neuro practice and the STARTING income is somewhere around $750,000and after 2 years of practice, it will be 1 MIL +. However, if you read it, it expalins that they are busy and that work hours will be 80+ a week. So, yes, those surgery sub-specialities give the doc an opportunity to make bank, however, you might as well plan on working up to 70 or 80 hours a week for the majority of your life. So your family will definitely enjoy the money!

I had a friend in high school who came from a doctor family. Both of his parents were docs -- his mom was an FP, and his dad was an ortho surgeon. I come from a small town of 15,000 people -- needless to say, his dad worked an ungodly amount of hours each week because he was one of the only ortho surgeons in our region. They probably made close to $450,000 between the two docs, but their son (my good friend) NEVER saw his parents. They basically gave him and his brother all the money they would ever want, but were never there to watch their to watch their basketball games, etc. So, as that type of doc, you are definitely giving up a lot to make that money. You have to ask yourself, "is it worth it?"

You could take a job like that and expect to work very hard for ten years. You would be making about a million a year for 8 yrs and 750k for two yrs. You would have made 9.5million dollars (Assuming you maintain a reasonable lifestyle), excluding taxes or investments that could build to your wealth. Then you could retire, take a job with better hours, or work in a free clinic. The options are endless.

I did not take into account student loans or living expenses, but you would still have made plenty of money to retire.

 

[MJB]

Hell, most nurses make that easily after their overtime is figured in.

It appears I need to speak with my wife's emloyer (a rather large regional medical center)...She's been averaging about 60 hours a week...and i don't think she'll make that this year.

 

[sistermike]

It appears I need to speak with my wife's emloyer (a rather large regional medical center)...She's been averaging about 60 hours a week...and i don't think she'll make that this year.

I am actually a BSN student (soon to graduate), although I am continuing w/ my med pre-req's to continue on to med school. For my area (and most of the other country), the starting wage is right around $21 - $24 an hour. The hospitals I have contacted will start me out around $23 an hour. That is just starting out. Working 60 hours a week on that wage, I would make roughly $75K (before taxes of course). I know of many NEW grads out of nursing school making more than that. I also know of new grads who are charge nurses after being out of school for a year making around ~$27 an hour working 60 hours a week.

 

[sistermike]

You could take a job like that and expect to work very hard for ten years. You would be making about a million a year for 8 yrs and 750k for two yrs. You would have made 9.5million dollars (Assuming you maintain a reasonable lifestyle), excluding taxes or investments that could build to your wealth. Then you could retire, take a job with better hours, or work in a free clinic. The options are endless.

I did not take into account student loans or living expenses, but you would still have made plenty of money to retire.

You are totally correct -- however, most people whom I have come across who make that amount of money tend to lead extravagant lives. Or if they themselves are not spending the money, they usually have a spouse and kids who eat up a large chunk of that. My roommate works for a doc (he does IT for him). The doc owns an IM (hospital-based) practice, an international medical transcription company, and a medical billing company. This guy is only in his mid-30's and makes a HUGE chunk of change. However, he also lives in a multi-million $ home, owns an escalade, and his wife (whom does not work) drives a benz and takes care of their daughter. He is always complaining about money.... haha.

My point is -- I think that most people who come into that type of money, immediately adjust their living style. Not all of them of course, but I would bet the majority of them.

 

[ClockworkDoc]

How much of the Dr's income goes to malpractice insurance?

 

[sistermike]

How much of the Dr's income goes to malpractice insurance?

It depends upon location and type of practice. I know that docs in Florida pay an insane amount of malpractice. Docs here in Nevada pay a hefty price as well. I was talking to an OB/GYN a year back when I worked at a local hospital, and she was telling me that at one point a few years back, her malpractice had risen to $110K; however, it has dropped since then, but she didn't specify as to how much she pays nowadays.

 

[ClockworkDoc]

Isit possible that a good number of Family practice Dr's (avg income $150k) could net under $80k/year due to business/insurance costs?

 

[honker]

The degree of misinformation regarding the economics of medicine is amazing.
Have any of you held a real job? Probably not. I suggest you keep a record of your postings and re-read them in ten years. Many of you have no idea what you are talking about.
Medicine will pay a decent wage. How well you do financially depends on where you practice and your business acumen. If you wish to avoid the business of medicine and work for an HMO such as Kaiser, you will limit your income severely, but fringe benefits (such as pensions) can close the gap. A lot of people are talking about high paying subspecialties, but these positions are few and far between. These positions tend to require tertiary care facility support and tend to be high risk for malpractice also. These considerations will limit where you can live and how much you take home.
Your perspective of how much you make will change significantly when you see who else in your community is making a good living. For example, in California,good residential real estate agents make more than primary care physicians, and in some cases, far more. These people don't need any more than a GED. It will make you wonder why you have busted your butt all those years. Also, most of you haven't been in a high tax bracket. I suspect a lot of you don't even know your tax bracket, if you have one. Sending up to 50% of your income for taxes gets old fast. An income of $150,000 may sound like a lot to a kid in college, but after sending your money in for taxes, mortgage, student loan repayments and other expenses, you will see just how little you will have compared to what yout think you will have for retirement.

 

[szhao]

as for me, being able to dress, eat, and not worried about basic needs is good enough. as long as doctors get paid over 1000 dollar a month, i will be happy, but it is probably nothing like what i would make in doing business with software engineering. (one microarray limb system sells for a million, mad money for something easy to do) but life can't be driven by money.

 

[sistermike]

as for me, being able to dress, eat, and not worried about basic needs is good enough. as long as doctors get paid over 1000 dollar a month, i will be happy, but it is probably nothing like what i would make in doing business with software engineering. (one microarray limb system sells for a million, mad money for something easy to do) but life can't be driven by money.

Read the post above you from "honker". You would NOT be happy making $1,000 a month. There is NO way in hell you could live on that. Have you ever worked and paid your own bills? If so, you know you can't live a normal healthy life on $1,000. ESPECIALLY, after coming out of residency with a few hundred thousand in debt. Your loan payments alone could easily be $1,000 (probably more than that in most peoples cases!). Be realistic. 🙄

 

[Law2Doc]

Read the post above you from "honker". You would NOT be happy making $1,000 a month. There is NO way in hell you could live on that. Have you ever worked and paid your own bills? If so, you know you can't live a normal healthy life on $1,000. ESPECIALLY, after coming out of residency with a few hundred thousand in debt. Your loan payments alone could easily be $1,000 (probably more than that in most peoples cases!). Be realistic. 🙄

Agree with this post and with honker's. The poverty line is well above $12k a year (even without student loans to repay), and you can earn that much with just a high school degree. However as I said before, none of you should count your future income before you get it. A lot can change in the decade between now and when you finish residency. Physician salaries have been on the decline for some time now, and it's anyone's guess whether they have bottomed out.
Medicine will earn you enough to have a house and a family and a car and send your kids to college and retire. You will be comfortable, but not exceedingly wealthy. You will not be living like the celebrities you see on MTV cribs.

 

[sirus_virus]

okay the argument that says money should not be the sole motivation for going into medicine is okay. What make me want to puke is the "there are easier ways to make 100k+" argument. Do you guys know how long it will take you in most professions to brake the 100k barrier? something like 15yrs on average and that is if you ever do. I also wonder how many people who claim they are not going into medicine for the money would still do it if they knew they were going to make 50K at the end. My brother is one of the most dedicated doctors I have ever seen and I can tell you his biggest motivation is money and I respect him for being honest with me. That might not be the best motivation but it is better than having no motivation. Medical education is way too tough, and if you think the whole "I am doing it because I want to help people" is going to be enough motivation to get you through the hard times then goodluck.

 

[sistermike]

okay the argument that says money should not be the sole motivation for going into medicine is okay. What make me want to puke is the "there are easier ways to make 100k+" argument. Do you guys know how long it will take you in most professions to brake the 100k barrier? something like 15yrs on average and that is if you ever do. I also wonder how many people who claim they are not going into medicine for the money would still do it if they knew they were going to make 50K at the end. My brother is one of the most dedicated doctors I have ever seen and I can tell you that his biggest motivation is money and I respect him for being honest with me. That might not be the best motivation but it is better than having no motivation. Medical education is way too tough, and if you think the whole "I am doing it because I want to help people" is going to be enough motivation to get you through the hard times then goodluck.

Totally 100% agree with you! If you wanted to "help" people, I truly think medicine isn't even necessarily the best profession. I am a BSN student currently, and nursing is by far the best career if you want to help others. That is exactly why I chose nursing over medicine because I felt I could make more a difference as a nurse than as a physician. However, I think I am beginning to realize that I will always feel as if I have settled, therefore I am going to pursue medicine. The idea of making enough money to never have to worry about anything also aids in the factor; however, it is not the only factor becaues I could live very comfortably as a nurse.

 

[Slide]

I-bankers straight out of college can break the 100k barrier easily. If your grades are decent (+3.4) and you have that certain business mindset, getting a high paying job in NYC/LA/SF is very feasible. However, the lifestyle that the profession demands will make you wonder if you've sold your soul for money.

okay the argument that says money should not be the sole motivation for going into medicine is okay. What make me want to puke is the "there are easier ways to make 100k+" argument. Do you guys know how long it will take you in most professions to brake the 100k barrier? something like 15yrs on average and that is if you ever do. I also wonder how many people who claim they are not going into medicine for the money would still do it if they knew they were going to make 50K at the end. My brother is one of the most dedicated doctors I have ever seen and I can tell you that his biggest motivation is money and I respect him for being honest with me. That might not be the best motivation but it is better than having no motivation. Medical education is way too tough, and if you think the whole "I am doing it because I want to help people" is going to be enough motivation to get you through the hard times then goodluck.

 

[Haemulon]

I'm laughing my rear off at the 1k/month comment. That sounds like a statement some highschool kid would make having not ever had to pay his own bills before. Most mortgages for an average, low-profile house where I live are over 1000.00 a month. And you would be happy making that as a physician? I wouldn't even be happy making that as the lawn mower salesman at Home Depot, or a waiter at Pizza Hut.

 

[Writer1985]

as for me, being able to dress, eat, and not worried about basic needs is good enough. as long as doctors get paid over 1000 dollar a month, i will be happy, but it is probably nothing like what i would make in doing business with software engineering. (one microarray limb system sells for a million, mad money for something easy to do) but life can't be driven by money.

Um. Are you missing a 0? Where I'm from, rent on a one-bedroom apartment is in the neighborhood of $1500. Good luck living on your 12k a year.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm laughing my rear off at the 1k/month comment. That sounds like a statement some highschool kid would make having not ever had to pay his own bills before. Most mortgages for an average, low-profile house where I live are over 1000.00 a month. And you would be happy making that as a physician? I wouldn't even be happy making that as the lawn mower salesman at Home Depot, or a waiter at Pizza Hut.

Give the dude a break. I'm definitely planning on hiring him to work for me when I open a practice. Heck, in a good year, I may even pay him double.

 

[zbruinz]

The degree of misinformation regarding the economics of medicine is amazing.
Have any of you held a real job? Probably not. I suggest you keep a record of your postings and re-read them in ten years. Many of you have no idea what you are talking about.
Medicine will pay a decent wage. How well you do financially depends on where you practice and your business acumen. If you wish to avoid the business of medicine and work for an HMO such as Kaiser, you will limit your income severely, but fringe benefits (such as pensions) can close the gap. A lot of people are talking about high paying subspecialties, but these positions are few and far between. These positions tend to require tertiary care facility support and tend to be high risk for malpractice also. These considerations will limit where you can live and how much you take home.
Your perspective of how much you make will change significantly when you see who else in your community is making a good living. For example, in California,good residential real estate agents make more than primary care physicians, and in some cases, far more. These people don't need any more than a GED. It will make you wonder why you have busted your butt all those years. Also, most of you haven't been in a high tax bracket. I suspect a lot of you don't even know your tax bracket, if you have one. Sending up to 50% of your income for taxes gets old fast. An income of $150,000 may sound like a lot to a kid in college, but after sending your money in for taxes, mortgage, student loan repayments and other expenses, you will see just how little you will have compared to what yout think you will have for retirement.

Yeah good real estate agents can make a whole LOT! My mom has a friend who's a real estate agent, he's 27 or 28 and he's making MILLIONS a year selling high price homes in LA. He has a mansion in Beverly Hills and drives a ferrari.

But you know what? He has trouble finding nice girls. They say he smells too much of money. (I'm sure he's getting plenty of golddigger action)

Making insane amounts of money has more to do with one's social skills than intellectual skills.

Anyways, my point is that money is not everything. Your family, friends, and your health should come first. Just make enough to live comfortably.

 

[braluk]

dont forget that many doctors, even with a "lower" pay before HMO's and insurance companies came along, have assets outside of primary income (i.e. investments into real estate, stocks, side-business, consultation, speaking at conferences with monetary honorariums, etc. etc.) I can guarantee you that at least half the assets of a very well off doctor probably come from areas outside of medicine that they directly practice. Money begets money.

 

[gujuDoc]

THose people above who posted about neuro surgery or vascular surgery -- sure, you will probably end up making an ass-load of money. In fact, if you go to medhunters.com, there is a position in Florida for a neurosurgeon at a busy neuro practice and the STARTING income is somewhere around $750,000and after 2 years of practice, it will be 1 MIL +. However, if you read it, it expalins that they are busy and that work hours will be 80+ a week. So, yes, those surgery sub-specialities give the doc an opportunity to make bank, however, you might as well plan on working up to 70 or 80 hours a week for the majority of your life. So your family will definitely enjoy the money!

I had a friend in high school who came from a doctor family. Both of his parents were docs -- his mom was an FP, and his dad was an ortho surgeon. I come from a small town of 15,000 people -- needless to say, his dad worked an ungodly amount of hours each week because he was one of the only ortho surgeons in our region. They probably made close to $450,000 between the two docs, but their son (my good friend) NEVER saw his parents. They basically gave him and his brother all the money they would ever want, but were never there to watch their to watch their basketball games, etc. So, as that type of doc, you are definitely giving up a lot to make that money. You have to ask yourself, "is it worth it?"

Good post. Another thing to consider is that to become a neurosurgeon you spend a good 7-9 years in residency after med school and some another up to 2 years for fellowship. Time = money. By the time you make real money you'll be well into your mid to late 30's.