MacGyver and ArrogantSurgeon- You guys are following me around? You must be very interested in what I say. I'm very flattered. Thanks!
🙂
Originally posted by ArrogantSurgeon
... and quite a few have been shut down after it was found they were basically selling medical degrees to anybody who could write a check.
Ross and St. George's have both been open since 1978. I've posted a list of several links showing you a spectrum, from very reputable University-based programs to community programs, where Ross grads are currently doing their training. These two schools (among many others) do not fit your distorted categorization. I would imagine that a similar list - no I'm certain - could be generated for SGU.
And, you keep making - at least a dozen times now (on this and other threads) - these ridiculous and completely false intimations that Ross is a diploma mill. Instead of running your proverbial mouth, do this for me:
1) Go to this website:
http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw0304/fslookup.htm
2) Click the drop down box and enter a year in the first field (doesn't matter); go to the second field, click the drop down box and select "verify"; the click the
Next button;
3) When the next page comes up, enter "G22460" in the field (without the quotation marks), then click the "next" button
4) Tell me what you see.
Now, are you REALLY so stupid as to believe that the Federal Government is going to verify for
federally-backed student aid a scam, diploma mill program?
Originally posted by ArrogantSurgeon
Carib schools take in many more students than they know will actually graduate and get a US residency.
Wait a minute? This completely flies in the face of your "diploma mill" argument. You admit that the school will
graduate doctors and those students will be placed into residencies. So, which is it? A "diploma mill" scam that will give a degree to anyone who pays, or an actual school where matriculation does not guarantee graduation? To further this point, do you think state medical licensing boards, the ECFMG, and the U.S. Department of Education would allow this if Ross and other established schools in the Caribbean were simply "diploma mills"? You need to keep your arguments straight. No one has ever said that automatically getting into Ross gets you a degree, as you have dubiously tried to imply.
I must admit that I am becoming more and more amazed that University of Washington would actually admit someone of such low intellectual caliber. Are you sure you're not pulling our leg and you are really just some average high-school student future med-school wannabe?
Originally posted by MacGyver
Get Ross, SGU, etc match list with ONLY those students who applied to US residencies (i.e. throw out the students who applied to foreign residencies)
Why do you feel the need to bring this up? Why are you moving the goalposts? Is it because you cannot provide an intelligent counter-argument to the other points?
Originally posted by MacGyver
Compare this list to ANY US medical school. Pick the "worst" US med school there is.
Please tell us what the "worst" medical schools in the U.S. are, schools that have to undergo LCME evaluation and approval, and feel free to cross-post to the Allopathic forum while you're at it.
Originally posted by MacGyver
When you compare these lists, I GUARANTEE YOU that the US med school will blow the foreign med school out of the water, no question.
Okay, why don't you also tell us which ACGME-approved, university-affiliated residencies that accept qualified Ross and SGU (among other U.S. and non-U.S. IMG students) into their programs are inferior? Maybe you should craft a letter and send it to the ACGME informing them that, per your opinion, these programs are somehow inferior?
And, while we're at it, why don't you go back and send an email to each of the fellow residents at the schools (I listed on page 1) telling them that they are equivalent to an inferior Caribbean grad because they have one in their program with them. That's what you're really saying isn't it? Those USMGs must be, by default, the "bottom of the barrel" if they're in a training program that a Carib grad got into, right?
Originally posted by ZfoUro
I think there might be a fundamental misunderstanding between some of the people posting here.
Oh, there's no misunderstanding. This is a carry over from an attack on another thread on a different SDN forum.
Originally posted by ZfoUro
I do not mean to be so blatantly sarcastic but the impetus behind the stigma is really absurd. Given another set of circumstances -- I mean something as simple as being a resident of a different state -- many of the people that HAVE to go to carrib med schools could easily be in US med schools. And to say that these schools simply hand out degrees is also equally ignorant, and equally stupid. The attrition rate at carrib schools is extremely high, and that is because they breed a survival-of-the-fittest atmosphere, where those that do EARN their degrees have worked harder and gone through more tribulation than most US grads. I do not think this is cause for stigma.
Just my .02
I agree with the crux of what you're saying here, but I draw a different conclusion and disagree that the sentiment behind this attack is, as you put it, absurd. It actually makes perfect sense. And, I'll explain why.
Students who struggle and get into a U.S. allopathic school often feel, and sometimes (but not always) rigthfully so, that they are special because it's so selective and competitive. They worked hard, got excellent MCAT scores, and feel like they really earned their place... which most did. But, many want to take that further to the exclusion of all others. They make the false logical leap that, since they are special and part of a perceived "exclusive" club, anyone else who tries to join by other means (be it going osteopathy or outside the U.S.) is by default inferior. They use the metrics that qualified them for gaining their admission as a spurious indicator of superior intelligence, accounting for no other factors. It's oversimplification, and they can't account for people who make the choice to go off-shore or go to osteopathy, regardless of whether or not they applied to U.S. allopathic school, regarding them as inferior based on the limited medical school admission criteria as an evaluation of the total person. They then use these "facts" as justification of the perceived stigma and rail against others who challenge their precious belief system.
The fact is that, in the end, we either pass our licensure exams or we don't. We either make the match and get into a residency, or we don't. When all things equal out after medical school, and we have earned our spots next to them in the residency program, the stigma is no longer justified. We are going to be doctors, just like them, and they need to stop with all the hollow, disingenuous rhetoric and begin to learn to deal with it as mature adults.
-Skip
