How will ADCOMs look at this?

[vikingvallhalla]

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I got a BA from a US university and graduated with a 3.8 in languages, got A's and B's in a few basic science and pre calc classes. However, I then went to a bilingual University overseas and took all of my science prereqs, neither of the two languages were English or the languages of my major. My concern is that I only have one A, mostly B's, and a few C's, leaving me with a B average (can't say exactly what the GPA will translate to, I think between a 3.0 and 3.3 but can't be sure until I have the transcripts professionally evaluated).
Is the fact that I went to a foreign country, quickly became fluent in a new language and comfortable in another going to be overshadowed by a potential 3.0 average in my prereqs?
I'm taking the MCAT on April 18th and am so far, based on perfomance, expecting around a 30-32.
Granted the 30 MCAT, 3.0 prereq GPA, would you do a post bac?
I have exceptional LOR's, 1 year humanitarian/ 1 year Americorps Volunteers work experience and lots of shadowing.
Thanks

 

[Blade28]

Hmmm...not sure exactly what you're asking.

Will the fact that your original undergrad GPA was a 3.8, but then your GPA in subsequent pre-reqs was around a 3.0-3.3 hurt you? Yes.

Will the fact that you attended your second school overseas be considered extenuating circumstances? Possibly.

But in general, adcoms prefer to see a steady, decent GPA that's minimally affected by hardships - illnesses, travel, work, etc., rather than a falling GPA because of said hardships. Stated another way, they're usually impressed when people can maintain decent grades despite other time commitments; unfortunately they're not always as understanding when one's grades drop for whatever reason, especially if there's a downward trend.

Out of curiosity, what was the reason for attending an overseas university with classes conducted in an unfamiliar language? Family move? Job? Exchange program?

You have to make sure you rock the MCAT; it sounds like you have the necessary extra-curriculars - shadowing, volunteering, clinical experience.

Best of luck!

 

[vikingvallhalla]

Blade28: thanks. In a nutshell. My wife is from Switzerland and when we met I was just finishing undergrad. At the time the Swiss weren't using a bachelor/master program, you just got the master directly, so we had to go there so she could finish her degree. Then I found out I could attend university for free and take the classes I needed, so I took an intensive french course and passed the university entrance exam, and here I am.
Hopefully the MCAT will be a moment to shine, but if its not, I'm wondering if I should retake some courses that I got low grades in, or if given the difficulty of adapting to a new education system, new culture and two new languages, they will look past the recent downward trend. I do have a positive trend with the Swiss grades, going from C's to B's and then my triumphant and only A. The Swiss system is very different. The first year of any natural science major is like a test to see if you can handle a heavy work load (you can't chose your classes, 35 hours of class and lab per week), so they actually plan for you to fail a few courses, you just need to have the average of a passing grade and you'll still get credit for the classes you failed. On top of that, your final grade is based on one exam, one of my Cs was in general biology, a one year course with one 20 page exam at the end.
Thanks again, sorry for the novel

 

[notdeadyet]

Viking- I'd call AAMC about this asap. From my understanding, foreign coursework does not meet AAMC requirements.

I experienced this by studying independently for a year at an Irish university. AAMC was explicit that the only time coursework at a foreign university was reportable to AAMC is if it was transferred to your home university and appears on that transcript. The instructions are pretty explicit and clear about that.

I was not able to report a prereq I did in Ireland so I had to retake it at a U.S. university. This was a big pain.

So call AAMC and see what they say. Let us know. I'll keep my fingers crossed in the meantime. I tried to jump through all kinds of hoops, but my prereq was not able to work out. I'd question whether the Swiss prereqs will qualify either.

 

[vikingvallhalla]

Notdeadyet: thanks, I'll see what I can find out from them, but as far as I know, and I've talked my US universities premed counselor as well as emailed a few admissions offices to confirm this, I can count the courses as long as I include a ''bone fide credentials evaluation'' by a professional evaluation service that is recognized by their institution. Man this is really going to suck if what you're saying overrides what these people have been telling me for the past two years. I'll be sure to post what I find out.

 

[notdeadyet]

I can count the courses as long as I include a ''bone fide credentials evaluation'' by a professional evaluation service that is recognized by their institution. Man this is really going to suck if what you're saying overrides what these people have been telling me for the past two years.

Definitely let us know. And do keep in mind that my information may not apply here. The AAMC stuff I read was pretty clear about not taking international transcripts, but it may have been directed at partial programs for undergrads. It may be a whole different ballgame for someone who already has a US BA. You may be in fine shape.

Just thought it wise to contact the source. If AAMC gives you the thumbs up, you're golden at all med schools. If they give you the thumbs down, it doesn't matter what individual adcoms think.

Do let us know. You may be in fine shape.

 

[Blade28]

Viking- I'd call AAMC about this asap. From my understanding, foreign coursework does not meet AAMC requirements.

Good point - I was going to bring this up as well. It's tough to have foreign credits count towards your med school app.

 

[vikingvallhalla]

Ok so I just got off the phone with the AAMC and what I've been told still stands. It is up to each University to determine if they accept foreign credentials but AMCAS won't include the courses in the calculation of my GPA or ask for transcripts. The list of schools that accept foreign coursework is short, but I've managed to find 15 of them who either explicitly accept foreign coursework accompanied by a credentials evaluation, or don't explicitly reject foreign credentials as a matter of policy.

Notdeadyet: your story makes me wonder exactly happened in your case? Who didn't accept your prereq taken in Ireland? Could you simply not list it on AMCAS? Or did the Universities you applied to reject it?

I read a post on here from someone who, like you suggested, registered at a University in the states after their foreign studies and had the credits counted on their US transcript so at least I know thats an option if this still somehow doesn't work out, but man what a pain.

Thanks again, cheers

 

[thoffen]

Scottishchap would be a good one to chime in here. Your best bet is unfortunately to retake the pre-reqs at a US institution. Hopefully you can squeeze them in so as to only put you back 1 application cycle. You can still be finishing them when you apply. Just finish them up before you attend school.

 

[notdeadyet]

It is up to each University to determine if they accept foreign credentials but AMCAS won't include the courses in the calculation of my GPA or ask for transcripts. The list of schools that accept foreign coursework is short, but I've managed to find 15 of them who either explicitly accept foreign coursework accompanied by a credentials evaluation, or don't explicitly reject foreign credentials as a matter of policy.

Just be sure that you're not asking the schools if they accept "foreign coursework" but "foreing prerequisites". The folks with non-US degrees I know who went the med school route didn't repeat their degrees, only their prerequisites.

Glad you found some schools that seem okay with it. Hope you can expand the 15 schools to a sizeable list so that you have some choices.

Notdeadyet: your story makes me wonder exactly happened in your case? Who didn't accept your prereq taken in Ireland? Could you simply not list it on AMCAS? Or did the Universities you applied to reject it?

When I listed the courses on my AMCAS, they were modified and removed by AAMC. They pointed me to their instrucitons, which indicate that only classes taken abroad must appear on American transcripts to appear in the system. Since AMCAS doesn't use them in the GPA calculation or count them towards anything, they don't show up on the final product.

The couple of classes I took abroad that transferred back to my home University appeared on my AMCAS. The ones I took independently did not appear.

In your case, what you may find yourself doing is having your AMCAS show only your American coursework. I'd recommend being proactive and contacting each of the 15 schools and explain your situation and sending in your supplemental materials. Do this BEFORE the rejection. Many schools will reject you immediately for not meeting prerequisites. You don't want to be in the APPEAL file. So jump on it ahead of the curve. I'd probably contact them and make my case prior to waiting for secondaries.

I read a post on here from someone who, like you suggested, registered at a University in the states after their foreign studies and had the credits counted on their US transcript so at least I know thats an option if this still somehow doesn't work out, but man what a pain.

I don't think that's an option. You can transfer credit back to a US university only in one of two ways: if you arrange ahead of time to transfer work back to your home university towards your degree. Or if you arrange ahead of time to study at a school who has a relationship with a US school that accepts their credits.

I scrambled after the fact and no school would do it. They said it just isn't possible unless you organize it ahead of time.

Anyway, viking, hope all goes well. I haven't met any Americans whove had any luck transferring pre-requisites directly from foreign schools. I'm hoping it goes okay for you.

 

[vikingvallhalla]

Man, I'm starting to think I was a bit naive to think it was going to be as uncomplicated as it seemed. I'm going to contact the med school at the university I did my undergrad at and run this by them one more time but ad nauseum. It gets more complicated because I'm still in Switzerland, so getting american credits is out of the question until next year.

Notdeadyet: Thanks a ton for your help, you may have just saved me a bunch of time and money, and have definetely opened my eyes to a very potential hazard

Cheers

 

[vikingvallhalla]

Ok, I just talked to the admissions office at the med school of the state university where I did my undergrad. I can definetely apply to their institution because their policy is to look at my undergrad GPA and other information first and then send out secondaries, as a part of which I would send them my foreign transcript along with the professional evaluation of it. So the fact that AAMC doesn't list the courses, even if they are the prereqs, or verify the transcript is irrelevant to them. Amen. (I was very explicit about saying ''prereqs'')
Now I'll just have to start calling around to the other admissions offices to see if they have similar policies. I hope I still have at least 15 schools when this is over.
Thanks again

 

[notdeadyet]

Now I'll just have to start calling around to the other admissions offices to see if they have similar policies. I hope I still have at least 15 schools when this is over.

Good stuff. Your approach sounds good. It will probably be a lot of phone calls, but you're wise to do it.

Most schools don't screen primaries, which means you'll probably get a secondary from most schools you apply to, even if they absolutely can not accept you due to their policy of international prereqs. Phoning them before adding them to your list saved you $100. Well worth the call.

Best of luck with the process. Do let us know how it goes for you.