How would you react if you caught someone cheating off you?

[911 Turbo]

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Oh, you wish it was something as good as an 'F' on your transcript! You will get an 'XF' for academic dishonesty, and that will stick with you forever. Good luck getting into medical school; there are plenty of applicants who haven't displayed such a profound lack of character and a total disregard for the cornerstones of civilization.

The word 'neurotic premed' comes to mind

 

[ccrone]

But what would Chuck Norris do? That's what's really important here.

🙂

 

[sotto voce]

xx

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

But what would Chuck Norris do? That's what's really important here.

🙂

He'd be a doctor by now.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'd explain why this logic that the educational system has tried indoctrinating us with since K is bull, but I'd rather not. Lets just agree that you've been drinking the moral kool-aid and not thinking for yourself, because thinking for yourself is bad right?

Anyway, life is unfair and people will take alternative paths and occasionally end up in a better place than you. But that's ok, because they aren't you and thus not your problem.[/QUOTE]



You made ^this^ point. If I observe a smart pre-med being murdered, it's apparently not my problem and it shouldn't be reported, right? What's the difference? Who are we to decide that murder is wrong? You see how your logic, well, sucks. Being murdered is just an "alternative path" and hopefully the pre-med victim does "end up in a better place." 🙂

Well maybe the premed was selling crack to poor inner city immigrants and the murderer decided to take justice into his own hands because he believed that he was the right hand of god while in a manic induced state ( Via RedBull of course) and killed the premed. Thus saving the children, but committing a crime, and also being a mentally unstable and thus going to an asylum instead of jail.

Point being, is life isn't black and white. I'm not going to lecture on basic logic and morality as that is the job of your school's philosophy department.

 

[Ashley1989]

I was going to cheat once in the eighth grade when we had a map test over all the states, capitals, and dates they entered the union. I had everything written under the arm of my sweater and when the opportunity presented itself to cheat I just couldn't bring myself to do it and i got a big fat F on the test. When i got my test back I looked at everyone who cheated with their A's and wondered what was wrong with me.

Now that I'm older I'm still like this, although I now just ignore the people who decide to cheat as long as its not from me.

 

[Godric]

I literally laughed while reading the first three pages. But it's not as big of a deal, and doesn't require a thread about. It's simple, next time just say you don't have it, it's not complete, or just say the truth, I am not going to risk letting you copy my labs word per word. Do you have hard proof the person word per word? If not a rewording of your lab wouldn't be as bad, but none the less still unfair to you. But a lot of the responses on this thread were over the top.

 

[sotto voce]

Well maybe the premed was selling crack to poor inner city immigrants and the murderer decided to take justice into his own hands because he believed that he was the right hand of god while in a manic induced state ( Via RedBull of course) and killed the premed. Thus saving the children, but committing a crime, and also being a mentally unstable and thus going to an asylum instead of jail.

Point being, is life isn't black and white. I'm not going to lecture on basic logic and morality as that is the job of your school's philosophy department.

You shouldn't receive credit for work you didn't do. That's as basic as it gets.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I was going to cheat once in the eighth grade when we had a map test over all the states, capitals, and dates they entered the union. I had everything written under the arm of my sweater and when the opportunity presented itself to cheat I just couldn't bring myself to do it and i got a big fat F on the test. When i got my test back I looked at everyone who cheated with their A's and wondered what was wrong with me.

Now that I'm older I'm still like this, although I now just ignore the people who decide to cheat as long as its not from me.

Blame your amygdala I guess. Either way, don't cheat ( or cheat, I personally dont care; I care more that you as a person are comfortable with yourself in your skin and comfortable with the decisions you have made in life. Because effectively very little of things like this matter in the long run in terms of our overall happiness. ) and live long and prosper.
Also cbt extinction therapy is amazing. 🙂

 

[Aerus]

You shouldn't receive credit for work you didn't do. That's as basic as it gets.

This summarizes everything, basically. 👍

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You shouldn't receive credit for work you didn't do. That's as basic as it gets.

And I'll agree, depending on the degree. In terms of plagiarism sure, if it is plagiarism of someone else's work before they publish it that is wrong. Again, life is not black and white, there are degrees of intensity.

 

[Ashley1989]

Blame your amygdala I guess. Either way, don't cheat ( or cheat, I personally dont care; I care more that you as a person are comfortable with yourself in your skin and comfortable with the decisions you have made in life. Because effectively very little of things like this matter in the long run in terms of our overall happiness. ) and live long and prosper.
Also cbt extinction therapy is amazing. 🙂

I googled cbt extinction therapy and didn't find any mention of cheating, just OCD? Can you enlighten me please?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I googled cbt extinction therapy and didn't find any mention of cheating, just OCD? Can you enlighten me please?

Cbt stands for cognitive-behavioral therapy. Extinction is a technique of conditioning out a established fear aversion. This therapy basically helps you stop having the aversion behavior or in the case of OCD doing a certain behavior like washing. The biology underlying it is actually quite amazing,

 

[yellowperil]

Unless you have to submit your lab report through safeassign, I wouldnt tell the TA about it and just talk to the girl that took the picture of your lab report. If you like some dramas, call her out and catfight maybe?

 

[CaptainSSO]

It's a lab report. The answers are all the same.

Seriously going to the prof is embarrassingly elementary. I don't know another way to say it. They will respect you and like you more if you give them less to do.

This is absolutely not true. At my school, the professors would specifically check labs for similarity of content.

 

[CaptainSSO]

I take honesty and integrity seriously. That's just me. If he cheated in O-Chem, why not in medical school, too? Why not in residency and during his career? Once a cheater, always a cheater. I went from trusting him totally to not trusting him at all, and I never will again.

You're logic is equivalent to saying: this guy killed a mosquito, why not dogs and cats, and what's going to stop him from killing people next?

Cheating is wrong and it is not ok, but you are way, way, way too rigid and draconian about this.

You sound like you judge people way too harshly, that's not a good trait in med school, or residency.

See how this works?

"You will never trust him again?" That is absolutely insane logic.

 

[911 Turbo]

Cbt stands for cognitive-behavioral therapy. Extinction is a technique of conditioning out a established fear aversion. This therapy basically helps you stop having the aversion behavior or in the case of OCD doing a certain behavior like washing. The biology underlying it is actually quite amazing,

Wasn't that the kind of stuff bandura researched? remember him from my psyc class. And what do you mean by the biology "underlying" it? its not an underlying factor its what's actually happening lol

 

[Ashley1989]

Wasn't that the kind of stuff bandura researched? remember him from my psyc class. And what do you mean by the biology "underlying" it? its not an underlying factor its what's actually happening lol

I'm still lost as to what this has to do with cheating 🙁

 

[Tatiana3325]

Why do I get the impression you spend your Sundays in the fetal position?

I had the same thought.

 

[Tatiana3325]

.

 

[CaptainSSO]

No she won't. The point is that you care about it more than the faculty would. Its a lab report. With all due respect to OP i seriously doubt she said anything earth shattering or brilliant in a lab report. The academic honesty rules are like a "swim at your own risk" sign or "caution wet floor". They HAVE to say not to cheat so that they can't be accused of condoning cheating.

s.

Wow, you and sotto are like diametric opposites, and your position is so much worse than his.

He is wrong because he apparently wants to execute anyone who cheats, and you are wrong because cheating is not at all about "navigating waters." It's wrong. It's unethical. Tests are about competence exams, and if you cheat, your competence is not being properly examined. ESPECIALLY for medical school, where competence can mean life or death.

Sotto is wrong because he is being too harsh, but his views insofar as the unethicalness of cheating are 100% correct.

Cheating. Is. Unethical.

 

[Tatiana3325]

This is absolutely not true. At my school, the professors would specifically check labs for similarity of content.

What class are we talking about?

 

[Tatiana3325]

.

 

[Neurosis]

wow, another cheating/ethics thread. Haven't seen this in a while...no sarcasm either. I really don't have an opinion one way or the other when it comes to cheats, unless their actions are detrimental to me/others it's really not that big of a deal.

 

[Tatiana3325]

But what would Chuck Norris do? That's what's really important here.

🙂

He would copy your homework, beat you up and toss you on the street with your books and pencils right before he tells the prof you copied off of him and beat him up.....

 

[Ashley1989]

wow, another cheating/ethics thread. Haven't seen this in a while...no sarcasm either. I really don't have an opinion one way or the other when it comes to cheats, unless their actions are detrimental to me/others it's really not that big of a deal.

Noooooo it wasn't supposed to turn out like this!! I just wanted some advice *sigh*

 

[CaptainSSO]

Wow. Just when I thought I agreed with you it turns out youre as uptight as the rest of them......

Cheating Schneating

Uptight? About this? Of course. Like I said, people who cheat shouldn't be drawn and quartered. But it is NOT ok.

Oh, look, this guy has altered mental status and is confused, I bet it's meningitis, let's get an LP and gram stain.

Oh, look his brain just herniated through his foremen magnum.

Whoops, that wasn't meningitis, maybe I should of checked his ICP first before doing that LP.

^Anyone could make that mistake. It could happen if someone is too tired, or distracted, or any number of things. But it would be much, much more likely to be caused by someone who skated by via cheating than someone who sat down and put the work in--actually did the reading.

That's all that exams are--testing if you put the work in and took the time to read what you need to know. Would someone get through med school cheating? I highly doubt it. But if they were cheating in the first place they're probably prone to cut corners when they can, and one of those corners they cut could lead to a mistake, which could lead to a bad outcome for a patient.

 

[Neurosis]

Noooooo it wasn't supposed to turn out like this!! I just wanted some advice *sigh*

You've been here long enough to know that threads like this can never lead to a positive outcome 🙄

 

[911 Turbo]

You've been here long enough to know that threads like this can never lead to a positive outcome 🙄

Lol dont blame her, about 10% of threads on pre allo have a positive outcome

 

[Flamen04]

-Learn your lesson. YOU CHEATED JUST AS MUCH AS THE OTHER PERSON BECAUSE YOU LET HER SEE YOUR REPORT.
-Next time don't let the same person copy your report.
-No one likes a snitch. Karma is a b*tch.

 

[Ashley1989]

You've been here long enough to know that threads like this can never lead to a positive outcome 🙄

Maybe I was worried about it! I do hope You read my original post, right? And the arguing and attacks aside, it's been fairly positive I've definitely read some interesting posts on here I think it's helped me, sorry if you don't feel likewise.

 

[Ashley1989]

-Learn your lesson. YOU CHEATED JUST AS MUCH AS THE OTHER PERSON BECAUSE YOU LET HER SEE YOUR REPORT.
-Next time don't let the same person copy your report.
-No one likes a snitch. Karma is a b*tch.

Woah!!! Read the original posts I gave it to her under the impression that she wanted to compare data, not take a pic and copy! Careful where you throw those accusations! Haha

 

[Neurosis]

Maybe I was worried about it! I do hope You read my original post, right? And the arguing and attacks aside, it's been fairly positive I've definitely read some interesting posts on here I think it's helped me, sorry if you don't feel likewise.

I'm not trying to attack you 😳, it's just that the last time a person asked a question similar to this, instead of getting mostly decent answers...well it led to this:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=882496

And the OP I believe was asking an entirely innocent question, It's just the nature of this forum to lead to constant debate.

 

[Ashley1989]

I'm not trying to attack you 😳, it's just that the last time a person asked a question similar to this, instead of getting mostly decent answers...well it led to this:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=882496

And the OP I believe was asking an entirely innocent question, It's just the nature of this forum to lead to constant debate.

I think constant debate is inevitable when you have a large group of neurotic geniuses like you all are. It's a great thing 🙂

I scanned through the link and wow... Just wow... Lol!

 

[Neurosis]

-Learn your lesson. YOU CHEATED JUST AS MUCH AS THE OTHER PERSON BECAUSE YOU LET HER SEE YOUR REPORT.
-Next time don't let the same person copy your report.
-No one likes a snitch. Karma is a b*tch.

You need to calm the f*ck down. Seriously.

 

[Tatiana3325]

Uptight? About this? Of course. Like I said, people who cheat shouldn't be drawn and quartered. But it is NOT ok.

Oh, look, this guy has altered mental status and is confused, I bet it's meningitis, let's get an LP and gram stain.

Oh, look his brain just herniated through his foremen magnum.

Whoops, that wasn't meningitis, maybe I should of checked his ICP first before doing that LP.

^Anyone could make that mistake. It could happen if someone is too tired, or distracted, or any number of things. But it would be much, much more likely to be caused by someone who skated by via cheating than someone who sat down and put the work in--actually did the reading.

That's all that exams are--testing if you put the work in and took the time to read what you need to know. Would someone get through med school cheating? I highly doubt it. But if they were cheating in the first place they're probably prone to cut corners when they can, and one of those corners they cut could lead to a mistake, which could lead to a bad outcome for a patient.

U need to smoke a J immediately

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Wasn't that the kind of stuff bandura researched? remember him from my psyc class. And what do you mean by the biology "underlying" it? its not an underlying factor its what's actually happening lol

No, Bandura studied social psychology not clinical psychology, though in principle a lot of his studies used operant conditioning because well, you need to learn something. And there is a very extensive neural system model of how classical conditioning and operant conditioning work. It's actually beautiful in my opinion.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm still lost as to what this has to do with cheating 🙁

You said you had a behavioral aversion to cheating. I said some CBT would bring about the "extinction" of this aversion. I was making a joke...............

 

[Vesh]

I am gonna throw my two cents in here. Anyone who has ever gotten good grades has had to deal with this issue before. I can't even begin to count the number of times people have wanted to just "check answers" since the second grade. Here's the deal though: usually, it's not a big deal. If people are just copying some calc answers or paraphrasing a lab report, you are making way more trouble for yourself by reporting it (I've seen victims get in trouble for tattling) than just helping someone else out. Hell I can remember the two times in my life I cheated: Once in 4th grade on a word on a spelling bee qualifier test. I went on to win the state spelling bee. The other time I peeked at a friends test for a problem that was stumping me in math in 5th grade. Does this mean I'm a terrible person and will make a bad physician? No. Should I have done it? Probably not.

In this case OP, don't sweat it. Hopefully this girl isn't stupid enough to copy word for word because even the most *****ic cheaters try not to make it that obvious. The thing is, if you were ever busy and needed help on an assignment, Im sure she would do the same for you. I doubt she had an malicious intent. Now of this were a big exam or research paper, it would be a bit more serious and I would probably consider reporting it, but lab reports, homework, and other assignments are just not worth the hassle and alienation you'll get from everyone. I can tell you honestly that some of the kids in high school who I let copy my answers on HW in high school were always nice to me and repaid me in other ways they best could. I'm a firm believer that aside from exams and papers, collaboration is the best tool you have for learning.

That being said, if she just continues to cheat, she'll be reprimanded in due time. Don't sweat the small stuff. Sometimes people get in a bind or time crunch and sharing a few answers can be all they need. Hope this helps

 

[235788]

U need to smoke a J immediately

you are demh23!!!!!!!

 

[Ashley1989]

You said you had a behavioral aversion to cheating. I said some CBT would bring about the "extinction" of this aversion. I was making a joke...............

Ooooohhh I thought so at first but then I took it seriously! Lol love it 🙂

 

[tantacles]

Wait, off or on?

 

[Smasher]

.

 

[Tatiana3325]

LOL. i'll make the thread interesting (not trolling) by letting you guys analyze me. I have no guilt about cheating. I'll copy my lab partners work, write answers in my calculator, on my upper thighs, etc. If I could get away taking a picture of my lab partners work, I would, but most the time they just let me paraphrase their lab reports. I'm still able to achieve well on my own, like on the MCAT or in my classes, but when I am an idiot and procrastinate learning things, I will cheat or be dishonest to get the grade. I don't have a problem with it, as I know I will be a good doctor and high achieving medical student, so the means justify the ends....

This is the way to be. All these self righteous do-gooders who speak of things like fairness and morality are nothing but pawns for the rest of us..... 🙂 🙂
😉

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

LOL. i'll make the thread interesting (not trolling) by letting you guys analyze me. I have no guilt about cheating. I'll copy my lab partners work, write answers in my calculator, on my upper thighs, etc. If I could get away taking a picture of my lab partners work, I would, but most the time they just let me paraphrase their lab reports. I'm still able to achieve well on my own, like on the MCAT or in my classes, but when I am an idiot and procrastinate learning things, I will cheat or be dishonest to get the grade. I don't have a problem with it, as I know I will be a good doctor and high achieving medical student, so the means justify the ends....

I mean you're honest about it and comfortable in your skin with it. That's what matters, I think that generally cheating is a victimless crime and occasionally one that borders on whether or not you have the advantage of being sociable and having friends to work with.
And honestly I doubt you'll be a bad doctor if you cheated a few times. If anything plenty of doctors do cheat such as the recent case with radiologists having illegal test banks and using them to pass the licensing boards.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This is the way to be. All these self righteous do-gooders who speak of things like fairness and morality are nothing but pawns for the rest of us..... 🙂 🙂

I don't think we need to judge anyone for doing what they feel is right for themselves. That is unless it is something like murder or going to inflict damage to themselves.

 

[ccrone]

This is the way to be. All these self righteous do-gooders who speak of things like fairness and morality are nothing but pawns for the rest of us..... 🙂 🙂

I'm not in a position to argue with you, but remember: eventually, you're going to run into someone who doesn't feel the same way. I'd hate for anyone to have to learn the hard way that cheating, plagiarizing, stealing others' work, etc. can have serious consequences.

I view it as akin to speeding tickets. The *overwhelming* majority of the time you don't get caught, no one gets hurt, and no one cares or is the wiser. But if you do get pulled over, odds are good that it's going to cost you.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm not in a position to argue with you, but remember: eventually, you're going to run into someone who doesn't feel the same way. I'd hate for anyone to have to learn the hard way that cheating, plagiarizing, stealing others' work, etc. can have serious consequences.

I view it as akin to speeding tickets. The *overwhelming* majority of the time you don't get caught, no one gets hurt, and no one cares or is the wiser. But if you do get pulled over, odds are good that it's going to cost you.

Even the analogy is false, speeding is correlate with killing people. And you're always going to run into people who disagree with you on many a topic. The best thing to do is to let them do what they want and let them live their lives the way he feel is best.

 

[ccrone]

Even the analogy is false, speeding is correlate with killing people. And you're always going to run into people who disagree with you on many a topic. The best thing to do is to let them do what they want and let them live their lives the way he feel is best.

These doctors are cheating, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that doctors cheating on board exams has the foreseeable effect of killing people. Especially for radiologists:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us.../2012/02/03/griffin-prescription-cheating.cnn

Watch the entire clip. Clearly licensing organizations completely disagree with the people on this thread (and others) who say cheating is a victimless crime, that it's no big deal, and that not cheating puts one at a disadvantage.

How about this one:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7398476n

Is that victimless, too?

So when people engage in this sort of behavior, we should just ignore it, let them do what they want, and live and let live? Since they didn't shoot and murder anybody, I guess it's no big deal. 🙄

 

[Smasher]

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