Howard administration responds to article.

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medicine2006

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Statement in Response to Hartford Courant Article on Howard University College of Medicine
Posted on: 7/7/2003 3:39:12 PM

Howard University takes issue with the implications found in the June 29 edition of
The Hartford Courant suggesting that Howard University College of Medicine is somehow
providing a less than outstanding education for its students. Indeed, we concur with
the statement of Dr. Jordan Cohen, president of the American Association of Medical
Colleges, who stated in the article, ?I think it?s kind of an irrational approach to
analyzing a very complex set of issues.? He said further that the effort was ?simplistic
and foolish.?

In the article, the Hartford Courant chose a database maintained by Public Citizen, and
?Physician Profile? databases from California and Ohio and excluded data found
elsewhere. We are reviewing the methodology employed by the Harford Courant. We also
question the failure of the Hartford Courant to appropriately distinguish the type and
manner of discipline involved in these cases and the reasons for the discipline. There
is no way to determine, based upon the article, whether the discipline was in the form of
an admonition, censure, suspension or revocation of license. We are also distressed by
the failure to note the experiences of other colleges of medicine, like the 7.6 percent
discipline rate for the graduates of the University of California at Irvine. The
California System reflects a wide disparity within one system. Surely, one would be hard
pressed to draw the conclusion that the University of California Irvine at 7.6 percent is
a lesser College of Medicine than the University of California San Diego at 2.53 percent.

The nature of the physicians? practices, the populations served and the specialties are
just some of the variables not noted in this so-called study. We are proud of our
tradition of graduating students who are committed to the underserved. The physicians?,
whom we have and will continue to produce, underscore our commitment to continue to serve,
and serve well, the underserved communities.

Howard University is proud of the professional leadership and service record of its medical
alumni. Howard University is confident of the high ethical standards of its graduates, and
decries the reckless and superficial nature with which the Hartford Courant interpreted
the data. The University commits to its own evaluation of such allegations, and going
forward with curriculum modification, if necessary, to ensure the highest standards of
ethical and moral behavior continue to be instilled into our students.
 
Originally posted by medicine2006
The
California System reflects a wide disparity within one system. Surely, one would be hard
pressed to draw the conclusion that the University of California Irvine at 7.6 percent is
a lesser College of Medicine than the University of California San Diego at 2.53 percent.

I don't know about you guys, but in my eyes UC Irvine IS a lesser institution than UCSD. (althought I'd give an umentionable body part to go to either)
 
they really sound offended, as they should be. it's going to be interesting to see what develops.
 
Does anyone have a link to the actual article? I'm sure they aren't being accused of anything horrendous.
 
Originally posted by medicine2006
Statement in Response to Hartford Courant Article on Howard University College of Medicine
Posted on: 7/7/2003 3:39:12 PM

Howard University takes issue with the implications found in the June 29 edition of
The Hartford Courant suggesting that Howard University College of Medicine is somehow
providing a less than outstanding education for its students. Indeed, we concur with
the statement of Dr. Jordan Cohen, president of the American Association of Medical
Colleges, who stated in the article, ?I think it?s kind of an irrational approach to
analyzing a very complex set of issues.? He said further that the effort was ?simplistic
and foolish.?

In the article, the Hartford Courant chose a database maintained by Public Citizen, and
?Physician Profile? databases from California and Ohio and excluded data found
elsewhere. We are reviewing the methodology employed by the Harford Courant. We also
question the failure of the Hartford Courant to appropriately distinguish the type and
manner of discipline involved in these cases and the reasons for the discipline. There
is no way to determine, based upon the article, whether the discipline was in the form of
an admonition, censure, suspension or revocation of license. We are also distressed by
the failure to note the experiences of other colleges of medicine, like the 7.6 percent
discipline rate for the graduates of the University of California at Irvine. The
California System reflects a wide disparity within one system. Surely, one would be hard
pressed to draw the conclusion that the University of California Irvine at 7.6 percent is
a lesser College of Medicine than the University of California San Diego at 2.53 percent.

The nature of the physicians? practices, the populations served and the specialties are
just some of the variables not noted in this so-called study. We are proud of our
tradition of graduating students who are committed to the underserved. The physicians?,
whom we have and will continue to produce, underscore our commitment to continue to serve,
and serve well, the underserved communities.

Howard University is proud of the professional leadership and service record of its medical
alumni. Howard University is confident of the high ethical standards of its graduates, and
decries the reckless and superficial nature with which the Hartford Courant interpreted
the data. The University commits to its own evaluation of such allegations, and going
forward with curriculum modification, if necessary, to ensure the highest standards of
ethical and moral behavior continue to be instilled into our students.

That rebuttal from Howard was very disappointing. It was more of an attempt to draw attention away from Howard with a feeble "look at this other school with bad numbers!" Until they can dispute the claims made in the article instead of just criticizing the methodology of the study, no reasonable person will change its viewpoint of Howard. Sorry, that wasn't good enough.

Bottom line: Take a bigger sample size, access all the databases you want, and the results will still be the same, albeit possibly to a "lesser" extent. Howard is still at the bottom or close to the bottom of all Medical schools in the US. I don't see why this is even a debate. If Howard wants to improve its image, they need to raise its admissions standards. That would be a good place to start. On a related note, the "premier" state school in my state just passed new admissions standards. Now you can't get in without a 3.0 gpa and at least a 20 on the ACT without conditions.....
 
Its very unprofessional of Howard to whine and make excuses and try to divert attention to other schools.

I cant believe that real doctors actually are acting like children over there.

They need to grow up, take their medicine, recognize that there is a problem and take active steps to address it.
 
MacGYver,

I don't know if this is really your opinion or is it you stirring things up again. You do it in the Allo forum as well as the everyone forum. At any rate you are a fool.

Mecute,
Your superiority complex is sad. When you get out in the real world you will realize that your arrogant attitude gets you nowhere. Remember that not everybody that holds positions of power or who have done great things come from IVY league schools. Its what you do with your life that counts more than where you came from.
 
No I wasn't implying you have to come from an IVY league school to make an impact. Far from it. However, Howard is at the bottom of the barrel and the best Howard's Administration can do is divert attention to another school instead of admitting and taking active steps in fixing the problem? If you address that issue then maybe I might grace this topic thread again. Until then, you're in denial and your outright refusal to address my and macgyver's point speaks volumes.
 
Originally posted by medicine2006
MacGYver,

At any rate you are a fool.


:laugh: :laugh: , sorry but this was funny. No beating around the bush. :laugh: I like it. Sounds like something my uncle would say, it's very point blank and in your face.






I am leaving now😛
 
I am beginning to think that mecute has never had to critically analyze anything in his life. How young are you anyway?

Certainly, I understand its possible to get the impression that the Howard administration is just trying to divert attention. However, to say it is the MAIN POINT of their arguement is absurd, first off. But second off, this seems like only the begining. The point of bringing up another school was not to say "look at that school, not ours" but simply to say that some of the socalled CONCLUSIONS made by the initial article seem somewhat stretched. I.E. ->One would never out and out say that UC Irvine was a lesser school than the other mentioned despite quite different numbers...especially since folks are dying to get into either. Furthermore, is that the only point made? I don't think so....reread the initial article and the small rebuttal and come back with a better critique of their stance. I certainly am not disagreeing that the response wasn't sufficient. I think obviously there is more to come..or there better be...for Howard's sake. But as a scientific thinker, where one gets data and how its interpreted is ALWAYS very important to me...and as doctors and scientists..i think the Howard administration at the very least brings up some valid points about the objectiveness of the so called study. In fact they say they are reviewing the methodology of the study...THAT seems to be their main arguement...not "look at other schools".
 
I personally think Howard is a good school. Im sure they will restore their rep in the near fitire
 
This is my letter back to the Dean at Howard:

Statement in Response to Hartford Courant Article on Howard University College of Medicine
Posted on: 7/7/2003 3:39:12 PM

Howard University takes issue with the implications found in the June 29 edition of
The Hartford Courant suggesting that Howard University College of Medicine is somehow
providing a less than outstanding education for its students.

Well, something is wrong obviously. When your grads have a disciplinary rate that is statistically significant at 10X the normal rate of disciplinary actions, then you have a problem.

Denying that you have a problem will not cause it to go away.

Indeed, we concur with
the statement of Dr. Jordan Cohen, president of the American Association of Medical
Colleges, who stated in the article, ?I think it?s kind of an irrational approach to
analyzing a very complex set of issues.? He said further that the effort was ?simplistic
and foolish.?

If you dont like it, give us a better methodology. I'm quite sure I can shoot holes in whatever you come up with.

Or, are they saying that people shouldnt be studying this stuff to begin with? If thats what they are implying, then they need to get off arrogant cloud #9 and come back down to reality. You are doctors, not gods, and you deserve critical analysis and reproach just like any other profession.

You dont get a free pass on this just because you are Howard.

In the article, the Hartford Courant chose a database maintained by Public Citizen, and
?Physician Profile? databases from California and Ohio and excluded data found
elsewhere.

What data did they neglect? Please tell us so we can include it. Could it be possible that even if we included ALL the data that Howard would still be at the bottom of hte barrell?

Ahh I think we're on to something here


We are reviewing the methodology employed by the Harford Courant. We also
question the failure of the Hartford Courant to appropriately distinguish the type and
manner of discipline involved in these cases and the reasons for the discipline.

Oh please, thats a copout. Are they honestly implying that without knowing the exact offenses then there is not a problem?

What stupid, arrogant thinking.


There
is no way to determine, based upon the article, whether the discipline was in the form of
an admonition, censure, suspension or revocation of license.

Oh let me get this straight. Since we dont have data on every single item of discipline, that means the whole data set is worthless? What a joke.

The conclusions of the article are NOT contingent on what kind of disciplinary actions were involved.

Whoever wrote this (the dean at howard i assume) needs to take a class in critical thinking

We are also distressed by
the failure to note the experiences of other colleges of medicine, like the 7.6 percent
discipline rate for the graduates of the University of California at Irvine. The
California System reflects a wide disparity within one system. Surely, one would be hard
pressed to draw the conclusion that the University of California Irvine at 7.6 percent is
a lesser College of Medicine than the University of California San Diego at 2.53 percent.

Actually I think most doctors would agree that UCSF is superior to UCI. At any rate, this attempt to say "LOOK, LOOK, THESE OTHER MED SCHOOLS ARE BAD TOO" is absolutely laughable.

The nature of the physicians? practices, the populations served and the specialties are
just some of the variables not noted in this so-called study.

This is a common tactic to discredit studies. There is ALWAYS more data to analyze... even if the study included all of that info I GUARANTEE YOU howard would still be looking for excuses and listing other parameters that should have been included.

This stupid idea of "well, you left out some data so ALL the data is invalid and the study is worthless" is a complete joke. Obviously this guy at Howard has no scientific expertise.

We are proud of our
tradition of graduating students who are committed to the underserved.

Oh please quit resting on your laurels. Thats the real problem with your school--you think you get a free pass just because you produce black doctors.

Sorry, try again.

The physicians?,
whom we have and will continue to produce, underscore our commitment to continue to serve,
and serve well, the underserved communities.

Serve well huh? I doubt the minority communities who have to suffer thru the highest rate of disciplinary action of any US medical school agree with that.

Once again, just because you are Howard dont mean jack

Howard University is proud of the professional leadership and service record of its medical
alumni.

Resting on laurels again. If you ever want Howard to come out of the bottom of the barrell, you owe it to your students to take this data seriously and do something about it.

why would anybody want to go to a school that keeps claiming that they dont need to improve and that everything is OK?

They keep ignoring the elephant in the room, and that elephant is NOT going to go away.

Howard University is confident of the high ethical standards of its graduates, and
decries the reckless and superficial nature with which the Hartford Courant interpreted
the data.

How should they interpret it? You give me another honest, plausible explanation for the discrepancy.

Your failure to do so speaks volumes.

The University commits to its own evaluation of such allegations, and going
forward with curriculum modification, if necessary, to ensure the highest standards of
ethical and moral behavior continue to be instilled into our students.

Thank you, its about damn time you admit that something needs to be done.

Somehow though I get the impression you are just blowing things off and not taking this data seriously. In that case, I question your professionalism, integrity, honor, pragmatism, and vision for Howard.
 
Nice, Macgyver!
 
OMG Macgyver, that was ownage. I couldn't have critiqued it line-by-line better. Now let's see Ms. Dawson do the line-by-line critique since she questioned my critical analysis abilities. When you break it down like that, there's really no more to be said about the matter. Perhaps thats why I had to search for this post on the 2nd page!

and Medicine2006, could you be a tiny bit more UNBIASED? We all know you attend HOWARD but at least you could be a little bit more objective about your own school's reputation.
 
Hi everyone.

This may be a bit random, but its just important for everyone to keep in mind that what makes a doctor a good doctor is largely the individual himself (or herself).

Howard may have had unsavory graduates, but you cant doubt the fact that many, many good doctors have been produced by the school as well. I can at least vouch from my program, that the statistics of other students (granted, these are SATS scores, and GPA's) attending are phenomenal - many of my classmates turned down extremely prestigious universities in exchange for the financial benefit (6 years and lower than average tuition), and more than anything - an education geared from the start towards aiding the underserved - a genuinely praise-worthy desire.

I agree that in order to bring up the reputation of Howard it would be necessary to raise the standards for application - but you can by no means write off the students in/attending Howard as mediocre.

That's just my defense of my future school.
 
Originally posted by neil7818
....- but you can by no means write off the students in/attending Howard as mediocre.

That's just my defense of my future school.

Can you point out where that accusation was made? The study points the blame at the administration and not at the individual students
 
That accusation was never made - and, no one on this board ever made that reference either, I was just mentioning the obvious so that no wrong impressions were made about the school or the students there. 😀
 
Even with bad publicity there are still going to be thousands of applicants at Howard each year. I'd say that they'll probably live through this one.
 
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