HPSP for GMO (FS/UMO)?

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Icositetrachoron

BS/MD
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Howdy y'all,

I've been a ghost around SDN for some time, but I have no real posting experience - I apologize in advance for any feats of ignorance that I manage to pull off in this following post. I appreciate all of the dialogue that has continued throughout this forum, and it has undoubtedly given me (as well as other medical students/pre-meds) insight into the complex machine that is MilMed. I'll try to keep my explanation of my background and my reasoning brief, but this will probably be a lengthy post.

BLUF: I'm considering HPSP as an opportunity to gain "military" discipline/leadership qualities, potentially do some cool things as a GMO (FS/UMO?), and serve my country before transitioning to a civilian residency.

I'm currently an undergraduate student in a BS/MD program with my university. I have neither prior experience with the military nor any family members with such experience. However, I would not be here today without the intervention of the military in the 60s-70s - for that I am extremely appreciative. The university that I attend is a senior military college, but I am regretfully not a member of its Corps of Cadets. This all being said, my university is steeped in strong military values, and I have acquired a deep appreciation for those that serve. The medical school that I will be matriculating to is also part of my university system and also has a focus on military medicine - we have a considerable number of veteran students and have several connections/clinical rotations with Army and AF facilities.

While I am somewhat enamored with the prospect of pursuing service with the military, I am hesitant to commission due to the considerable amount of negativity expressed by SDN towards the current MilMed system. It seems evident that pursuing a long term career with the military would be a poor decision. With the uncertainty surrounding DHA acquisition of MTFs, the upcoming provider cut, and slashing of residencies, pursuing an HPSP scholarship has a considerable amount of unknowns. In addition to this, my medical school has an extremely cheap tuition, so while the financial bonuses of HPSP would be nice during my schooling, the military would be getting me for a very good deal.

What keeps on drawing me back to the prospect of HPSP is what I believe to be a desire to serve, or at least some sort of pseudo-desire conferred to me by the values of my university. I enjoy the prospect of providing care for those that put their lives on the line for us every day, and am aware of the BS oftentimes attributed with it. In addition, there is the possibility of gaining interesting experiences and personal development from the process. From what I have read, the most enjoyable/interesting times in MilMed have been those spent doing specialized training as a FS or UMO - those are opportunities that seem to close off after one pursues a residency, starts a family, grows older, etc. I have been locked in to my BS/MD since senior year of high school, so I'm pretty comfortable with being "locked-in."

While I am currently considering primary care or aerospace medicine, it's possible that that decision will change through medical school - if I still decide to pursue those, military training and post-residency compensation is reportedly about the same as civilian (or I can GMO and pursue civilian training). If I decide not to specialize in those areas, I can once again do GMO and pursue the civilian track. This way, I'll dodge most of the uncertainty with all of the incoming DHA reform and billet cuts.

In any case, I wanted to know whether or not pursuing a GMO and experiencing the original, forward operating, core concept of MilMed would be a worthwhile experience. Is four years (five including intern?) of GMO a good formative experience for a young adult, and does it really help in matching to civilian residencies afterwards? I'd ideally like to obtain a wide variety of experiences by spending time as an FS, travelling overseas, doing humanitarian work (if the opportunity arises), and gaining military traits before moving on with my career. Compared to the more mundane, "traditional" track that most med students take, I feel that both the good and bad experiences associated with the military will leave a more lasting impression on the way that I live my life.

I'm considering AF, Navy, and Army (though to a lesser extent). If I recall correctly, USAF has less flight time, while the Navy gets much more. I do not know anything of the Army's FS program, though it seems more likely that I'd be deployed as a battalion surgeon upon GMO. I think that AF and Navy both get pretty good locations and have shorter deployment times, but I'm not sure about their humanitarian work - it seems like Navy does a bit more. Does anyone have any insight between these two services?

Thanks for your service and advice.

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In any case, I wanted to know whether or not pursuing a GMO and experiencing the original, forward operating, core concept of MilMed would be a worthwhile experience.

From my experiences with others that have gone down that route...yes...it'll be a worthwhile experience. You seem young and these things should be done young. By the time you become a doctor you should be 25-26...or 24, I'm not sure how long your BS/MD path takes. I came to personally know 5 people that GMO'd and out (All Navy, this plan is much easier done with Navy). 3 were super happy with their experiences with 2 of them staying in the Navy reserves afterwards and 1 always fondly remembering his time in Hawaii and other parts of the Pacific (mainly Diego Garcia...but also Singapore!). The other 2 were not as happy with one being stuck in Afghanistan for 1 year literally not doing anything and the other, my buddy, I think he's just bored and he whines a lot because the clinic he's running is on the beach and he gets to live in San Diego (eh...I might chalk him up to the positive experience category).

But. All of them landed great residencies afterwards at places like UCSD and University of Washington. I also know of a GMO and out guy on this forum that landed a PMR residency in the Mayo Clinic. I'm sure there are actually many more positive stories like these.

From what I have gathered over the years the source of the negativity typically starts with one's military career after being residency trained. So if you GMO and out, you kind of avoid that. Though most likely you will have to redo intern year. Which will suck.

For your case I would recommend Navy simply because there are more GMO options.

However, I would not be here today without the intervention of the military in the 60s-70s - for that I am extremely appreciative.

Vietnamese or Hmong? I'm just curious.
 
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The military more often than not will be a financial loss. It adds a bunch of variables to an already complicated life. The bureaucracy is frustrating and your life can truly suck if you go to a command with poor leadership and morale.

I honestly think that it should only be pursued by those who are prior service military or those that would otherwise regret NOT doing. I fell in the second category...and I have absolutely zero regrets of doing military medicine. Just be sure you know what you’re signing up for and why you want to join. Good luck!
 
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@Red Lobster Actual, thanks sharing your perspective - I really appreciate it. To answer your question, I'm actually from a sub-population of Chinese immigrants within Vietnamese society called the Hoa. I've been keeping Navy in mind, but they seem to lack a centralized source of information regarding their HPSP program, ODS, 45-day active duty rotations, etc. On a more personal note though, I'm a pretty dedicated marathon runner - I imagine that putting down 40+ miles a week on a ship might be a tad bit more difficult than if I was stationed on land. I'm sure that there are treadmills on larger vessels, but I'm not sure if I could stay sane running on one of those during a 9 month deployment. My capacity to swim is also akin to a fish's ability to run.

@j4pac Thanks for your advice as well - would you be willing to share why you would've regretted not doing military service? I regret not doing my university's Corps of Cadets program and feel like I missed out on the interesting military science courses that they took, as well as the camaraderie associated with being part of the cadet community. I feel like I'm in the second camp as well, but comparing military service to a military college program is probably not an accurate comparison.
Ironically, what's really keeping me away from HPSP right now is what draws most people to the program - the financial aspect. My medical school's tuition, with an outside scholarship, amounts to about $13k a year - as I said before, the military would be getting me for chump change. Is the experience gained over four years really worth less than $100k in medical school compensation? If I was going to a $50-60k/yr school, I'd be much more strongly compelled to go military. This being said, if I choose not to pursue HPSP, it is unlikely that I'll ever go military in the future - as of right now, it feels like that will bug me.
 
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Ironically, what's really keeping me away from HPSP right now is what draws most people to the program - the financial aspect.

Consider the HSCP program. You get E-6 pay/benefits and the payback is the same as HPSP (4 years). The program technically does not pay the school, you use your active duty salary to pay the school and the rest you keep for yourself. However. the assumption is if this program still exists. I have been hearing rumors they were getting rid of HSCP.

On that note, if the recruiter plays the ol' switcheroo game of offering HSCP and then tried to give you HPSP, just say no and walk away. Also, read the fine print before you sign.

On a more personal note though, I'm a pretty dedicated marathon runner - I imagine that putting down 40+ miles a week on a ship might be a tad bit more difficult than if I was stationed on land.

Just GMO with the Marines. They like to run. And you'll be on land if you do flight surgery and undersea/dive medicine.

I've been keeping Navy in mind, but they seem to lack a centralized source of information regarding their HPSP program, ODS, 45-day active duty rotations, etc.

This forum is perhaps the best centralized source of information for all you mentioned and etc.
 
@Red Lobster Actual, thanks sharing your perspective - I really appreciate it. To answer your question, I'm actually from a sub-population of Chinese immigrants within Vietnamese society called the Hoa. I've been keeping Navy in mind, but they seem to lack a centralized source of information regarding their HPSP program, ODS, 45-day active duty rotations, etc. On a more personal note though, I'm a pretty dedicated marathon runner - I imagine that putting down 40+ miles a week on a ship might be a tad bit more difficult than if I was stationed on land. I'm sure that there are treadmills on larger vessels, but I'm not sure if I could stay sane running on one of those during a 9 month deployment. My capacity to swim is also akin to a fish's ability to run.

@j4pac Thanks for your advice as well - would you be willing to share why you would've regretted not doing military service? I regret not doing my university's Corps of Cadets program and feel like I missed out on the interesting military science courses that they took, as well as the camaraderie associated with being part of the cadet community. I feel like I'm in the second camp as well, but comparing military service to a military college program is probably not an accurate comparison.
Ironically, what's really keeping me away from HPSP right now is what draws most people to the program - the financial aspect. My medical school's tuition, with an outside scholarship, amounts to about $13k a year - as I said before, the military would be getting me for chump change. Is the experience gained over four years really worth less than $100k in medical school compensation? If I was going to a $50-60k/yr school, I'd be much more strongly compelled to go military. This being said, if I choose not to pursue HPSP, it is unlikely that I'll ever go military in the future - as of right now, it feels like that will bug me.

I’m third generation Navy. I have a huge military family and I love the community. I would have done military med even if I didn’t get a scholarship.

The money is a wash at best. If you sign the dotted line it’s with the understanding that you are ok with losing money, losing time, and losing flexibility for the opportunity to serve.
 
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...I would have done military med even if I didn’t get a scholarship.

The money is a wash at best. If you sign the dotted line it’s with the understanding that you are ok with losing money, losing time, and losing flexibility for the opportunity to serve.

It is a rare situation to find people like you and the OP. Realistically it is the best scenario to trust that expectations are appropriate for time served in MilMed. It maximizes the chance that you'll be content with your time because you wanted to join the military first, not necessarily medicine.

Thanks for your service.

To the OP: If you're worried about the "value" of the HPSP scholarship because your tuition is so low then really consider how heavily you are weighing the experience vs. the money. If you are truly joining just for the experience then value shouldn't be a factor. With the unknowns out there right now, if you have any hesitation then it is best to eat the debt and make it up on the backside with a standard civilian route. Committing yourself to MilMed should be without any reservation if you want to stay happy and content during your time.
 
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I did Army HPSP despite going to the cheapest (at the time) medical school in the US. With your perspective going in, you will really enjoy it. If I could suggest Army, going through jump school, then either Ranger or SOF. I was a GMO with the 1st CAV in Afghanistan, then a brigade surgeon with an airborne unit. Had a blast doing both. With these kinds of life-changing experiences and the poise they give you, you’ll be imminently qualified for the residency of your choice, which I would strongly suggest doing outside the military. PM if you’re interested, I had a hell of a ride but would do it over with a few changes if I knew what to look for going in.
 
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Hi All, hoping to be able to revive this thread. I come from the same community as @Icositetrachoron and actually have constantly regretted not serving in various capacities throughout different phases of my life up until now. I'm currently applying to medical school as a non-traditional applicant and considering the Navy HPSP. I want to serve and feel very similarly as OP and @j4pac. As an older applicant (30), this is probably going to be the last fork in the road where I might have an opportunity to serve. The Navy GMO experience sounds very appealing to me and I would be quite interested in going Navy GMO and out. However, now being an older applicant, I also have competing reservations because I would pretty much be 40 by the time I got out, and 43-44 by the time I finished a residency. All the unpredictability is totally fine with me right now (single), but I imagine it would be rather hard hold down a new relationship formed during the midst of that unpredictability due to the constant moving and probable deployments. I am curious about your input based on your experiences: have you met much older people entering this path? If so, what was their experience like? Having gone through all this, do you think that this would indeed be an unwise path to go through if one of my life goals would be to have a family of my own before 40-44? Thanks in advance!
 
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