HPSP negatives or downside ?

[crax]

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Hello, I have been reading these forums for a few days with particular interest to HPSP.
I'm a recent college graduate who's applying to dental school. The main option i see people discussing is HPSP for those with situations similar to mine.

ive seen some statements alluding to the downsides of the program, but could anyone elaborate on what the negatives would be? I would very much appreciate ALL imput, opinions, and comments.

possible downside list (i'll try and keep updated)
-four years of commitment post dental school graduation (with the possibility of deployment).
-lack of exposure to certain procedures

 

[krmower]

Hello, I have been reading these forums for a few days with particular interest to HPSP.
I'm a recent college graduate who's applying to dental school. The main option i see people discussing is HPSP for those with situations similar to mine.

ive seen some statements alluding to the downsides of the program, but could anyone elaborate on what the negatives would be? I would very much appreciate ALL imput, opinions, and comments.

possible downside list (i'll try and keep updated)
-four years of commitment post dental school graduation (with the possibility of deployment).
-lack of exposure to certain procedures

You may get assigned to a part of the country or world that you do not want to go to

 

[Tiankum]

You may get assigned to a part of the country or world that you do not want to go to

I don't know how well this will help. I'm a second year dental student on the Navy HPSP. I don't regret it for a second. Neither does my wife. So far the HPSP has worked out tremendously on our behalf compared to the other students in my class taking out loans. I'm sure I'll end up being deployed in the future for a good 6 months. But in the long run, that's not long at all. Everything I need here in school is payed for, whether in be gold for casting, typodont teeth, new instruments, burrs, hand pieces or whatever. Not worrying how much debt I'm sinking into makes it so much easier to focus on school. I say, if you're thinking about doing the HPSP, apply for it. If you get it then choose whether or not you want to accept it, but at least then it will be a real option instead of "thinking" about applying.

Dental school isn't free no matter what road you take. You'll either be owned by the interest on your loans or you'll be owned by the military...take your pick.

 

[dawglala]

I don't know how well this will help. I'm a second year dental student on the Navy HPSP. I don't regret it for a second. Neither does my wife. So far the HPSP has worked out tremendously on our behalf compared to the other students in my class taking out loans. I'm sure I'll end up being deployed in the future for a good 6 months. But in the long run, that's not long at all. Everything I need here in school is payed for, whether in be gold for casting, typodont teeth, new instruments, burrs, hand pieces or whatever. Not worrying how much debt I'm sinking into makes it so much easier to focus on school. I say, if you're thinking about doing the HPSP, apply for it. If you get it then choose whether or not you want to accept it, but at least then it will be a real option instead of "thinking" about applying.

Dental school isn't free no matter what road you take. You'll either be owned by the interest on your loans or you'll be owned by the military...take your pick.

Good to hear. Thanks for sharing!

 

[AFDDS]

I don't know how well this will help. I'm a second year dental student on the Navy HPSP. I don't regret it for a second. Neither does my wife. So far the HPSP has worked out tremendously on our behalf compared to the other students in my class taking out loans. I'm sure I'll end up being deployed in the future for a good 6 months. But in the long run, that's not long at all. Everything I need here in school is payed for, whether in be gold for casting, typodont teeth, new instruments, burrs, hand pieces or whatever. Not worrying how much debt I'm sinking into makes it so much easier to focus on school. I say, if you're thinking about doing the HPSP, apply for it. If you get it then choose whether or not you want to accept it, but at least then it will be a real option instead of "thinking" about applying.

Dental school isn't free no matter what road you take. You'll either be owned by the interest on your loans or you'll be owned by the military...take your pick.[/QUOTE]

I like this quote. I may plagerize it in the future.

I'm sitting here today looking at my student loan balance (15 years out of dental school) and getting ready to cut a check to pay them off. If you can go to dental school and graduate debt free or almost debt free and then spend 3-4 years working in a large group practice and have experienced dentists to bounce cases off of, what is the downside? I don't see one. In the grand scheme of things 3-4 years of your dental career is nothing. And, who knows, you might just enjoy it and decide to stay for a while.

 

[MatthewLeeDDS]

There will be positives and negatives of everything, but you know what? Do this. Look at the negatives of NOT doing it and see what you come up with. There is a guy in my class today (2nd year) who told me he's 160K in debt. Completely blows my mind... and I'm actually making money in dental school! Besides, serving has always been something I admired in others and 4 years is a small "payback" for a huge financial burden being lifted. I think with the way students loans are headed, the HPSP is only going to become more enticing. It's no wonder that the Air Force started making everyone apply and stopped taking automatics for the 4-year.

Negatives to one person will be positives to another, remember that.

"Oh, you'll have to be in the military for 4 years and may not live somewhere you're comfortable with"... It's about time I get out of my comfort zone for a while, see some other places, and experience some new things. To me, this is a huge positive. If life is supposed to be about being born, getting a job, making money, and dying, then I'm doing it all wrong. I want to wake up each day and know I'm doing what I WANT to do, something fun and new and different, not what I'm comfortable with and what I know most people are doing.

Like Tiankum said, I don't regret this for a second. It's honestly been far and above my wildest expectations, and I mean that 100%. Dealing with the efficiency of Air Force with reimbursements, not even touching a bursar bill, not being in on those dreaded "time to apply for financial aid again" discussions... it's the best feeling ever.

Check my email below and feel free to ask any questions you have.

 

[HawkJ2010]

There will be positives and negatives of everything, but you know what? Do this. Look at the negatives of NOT doing it and see what you come up with. There is a guy in my class today (2nd year) who told me he's 160K in debt. Completely blows my mind... and I'm actually making money in dental school! Besides, serving has always been something I admired in others and 4 years is a small "payback" for a huge financial burden being lifted. I think with the way students loans are headed, the HPSP is only going to become more enticing. It's no wonder that the Air Force started making everyone apply and stopped taking automatics for the 4-year.

Negatives to one person will be positives to another, remember that.

"Oh, you'll have to be in the military for 4 years and may not live somewhere you're comfortable with"... It's about time I get out of my comfort zone for a while, see some other places, and experience some new things. To me, this is a huge positive. If life is supposed to be about being born, getting a job, making money, and dying, then I'm doing it all wrong. I want to wake up each day and know I'm doing what I WANT to do, something fun and new and different, not what I'm comfortable with and what I know most people are doing.

Like Tiankum said, I don't regret this for a second. It's honestly been far and above my wildest expectations, and I mean that 100%. Dealing with the efficiency of Air Force with reimbursements, not even touching a bursar bill, not being in on those dreaded "time to apply for financial aid again" discussions... it's the best feeling ever.

Check my email below and feel free to ask any questions you have.

Hey there BoomerSooner I had a few questions for you regarding the HPSP since you seem to have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject. Currently I am working on my pre-reqs for pre-dent and will be gearing up to take my DAT next August so that I may be eligible to matriculate into the Fall 2013 dental programs.

I, personally, have always wanted to serve my country for the longest time but I didn't feel like going enlisted was for me. I recently fell in love with dentistry and found out about the HPSP and how I could get into the Air Force's Healthcare positions.

First off I would like to ask you when I should start talking to healthcare recruiters about the HPSP seeing as how my DAT won't be completed until next summer and I will not graduate until May 2013?

I see many people look into the HPSP and ask what the negatives are... such as being deployed, not being paid as much as civilian counterparts, and being "owned" by the military. I don't really see these as so-called "negatives", I actually find that some of these are actually privileges.

I am curious as to how long you have been working as a military dentist. I am just wondering if it will be a good lifestyle in which to have a family? I do understand that I have a 6-month deployment for every 4 year contract I sign but what is life like while state-side? I also read that every 4 years you are stationed in different locations, how has this worked out in your life?

Now as I stated earlier I know that you aren't paid as much as your civilian counterparts but I'm sure that you can make a living especially if you have a wife with a steady job, right? I see some GP's making 125-175,000 on here and that is great and all but growing up my entire families income was half of that and I can see we lived very happily. Money is obviously not a huge deal to me as long as I can support for my family. Not to mention the HPSP will be paying for my $200,000+ education.

Thank you for your time and have a great day.
Hawk

 

[xhamburgersamx]

A lot of people don't take into consideration the benefit to your standard of living while in dental school (4 years). The stipend is close to $2000 per month, for 1.5 months you get O-1 active pay and you receive a $20,000 bonus if you do the 4 year Army.

Most of my classmates are on full loans meaning they have to borrow money to live, eat, drink, play etc. I've spoken to many about this and they agonize over the fact that they have to borrow money to find a place to live while attending school. Using this "borrowed" money really constricts their ability to eat out, have a few drinks and have a good social life outside of school. Many I find are extremely cheap and always hesitant to do things simply because they feel bad for doing the funner things in life on borrowed money. It makes sense. Toward the end of semesters, many of my classmates "run out" of money and it's really sad to think about that. It's not even about being broke anymore but being in severe debt. Another round of drinks is going to put me ($40) more in the hole...etc etc.

With the stipend, I live very comfortably and I'm saving money too. Once I get out of school, I'm going to buy a new car and/or put that money down a house where ever I end up being stationed. The commitment issues is really up to you but I have to say, everyone I know on HPSP at my school really has no regret about doing it.

You can check online how much the army has contributed to your scholarship fund. I go to a super expensive school and through two years, the army has contributed over $200k to my education. Maybe if you go to cheaper school, then the financial aspect of the HPSP is not worth it.

 

[Act0fgod]

While in school I can't really think of any negatives. There may be somerules that limit your ability to have additional businesses/jobs without approval(like when you are on active duty) but no one is really monitoring what you do. After school is when the potentialnegatives begin. The following may be negatives depending on your perspective.

If you really want to specialize right out of dental school you may not beable to regardless of your grades/rank/board scores. It is going to depend onthe needs of the service and the other students that are applying to the fewslots. You won't be able to go directly to certain specialties directly afterdental school.

As mentioned you may not go to an area that you want to live. Some peoplehate the cold...you could be assigned to SD or AK. You go where you are sentfor the time you owe.

If you are married and your spouse wants to have a career it may be toughfor them at some locations.

If you are in a serious relationship it's unlikely you will be able to stayin the location of your school after graduation. Moving may place stress on or end thatrelationship.

What you are paid is set. You won't be able to find/negotiate a sweet associateshipthat pays a ton (if they exist). You also won't be able to take on the risk andpotential payoff of opening your own practice directly after dental school.

You are going to have a five day work week. Some people I know thatgraduated last year are working 3 or 4 days a week (longer hours each day).

You may have to work a weekend or two. If you deploy you will certainly workweekends.

If you have a family/pets you may have extended periods of time away fromthem.

If your spouse is pregnant and you get deployed…sorry you may not be therefor the delivery…same goes for many other events you deem important (you may beable to return in the unfortunate event of a funeral).

If you want to work with geriatric, pediatric or severely medicallycompromised patients generally you won't have much opportunity to do so.

The military like any large organization is a bureaucracy. Little thingsthat inevitably will be incorrect with pay, vacation, moving, ect may take sometime and effort to resolve. Often people are told to go from place to place andperson to person to resolve. It frustrates a lot of people beyond belief.

You are going to have to complete a lot of online training that you may consider annoying.

If you don't like your boss or co-workers you can't just quit.

Some people are uncomfortable being an officer/mentor/leader and you won'thave much of a choice in that (although you can get by as a badofficer/mentor/leader).

You essentially have another legal system that you will be subjected to (forexample if you think your tech is cute you won't be able to date them -probably not a good idea in the civilian world either but you will be subjectedto punishment in the military even if it is a consensual relationship).

You don’t get to choose the clothes you wear to/at work.

You will have to keep your hair relatively short and may not be able to wearit how you want.

As far as facial hair…no go except for a mustache that does not extend pastthe commissure of your mouth.

You’re going to have to take physical fitness tests.


Some of the things may be negatives to some and not to others (may even bepositives). I’ve seen that when someoneposts negatives they often encounter arguments. If that’s the case so be it.

 

[NoPresident]

While in school I can't really think of any negatives. There may be somerules that limit your ability to have additional businesses/jobs without approval(like when you are on active duty) but no one is really monitoring what you do. After school is when the potentialnegatives begin. The following may be negatives depending on your perspective.

I think this responder was the first to really answer the OP's question of what the downsides/negatives are.

In addition to what's already been listed is the fact that, if you do decide to specialize after dental school even though it may end up being less competitive you'll likely owe the military more than the original 4-year commitment. For example, if one were to pursue a 6-year OMS specialty it'd be a total of 10 years owed to the military. Additionally, of all the people I know in my school (which is a large, and expensive school unfortunately) who accepted the scholarship some expressed many of the concerns Act0fgod mentioned as well as the one I did. However, the majority of them (at least at this point) feel that they made a sound decision though.

I do think that it makes more sense to consider the HPSP at the very expensive schools; it is a complex decision though. I've read post by many on this forum who have conveyed it's important to not accept the HPSP solely for financial reasons...

 

[xhamburgersamx]

I think this responder was the first to really answer the OP's question of what the downsides/negatives are.

In addition to what's already been listed is the fact that, if you do decide to specialize after dental school even though it may end up being less competitive you'll likely owe the military more than the original 4-year commitment. For example, if one were to pursue a 6-year OMS specialty it'd be a total of 10 years owed to the military. Additionally, of all the people I know in my school (which is a large, and expensive school unfortunately) who accepted the scholarship some expressed many of the concerns Act0fgod mentioned as well as the one I did. However, the majority of them (at least at this point) feel that they made a sound decision though.

I do think that it makes more sense to consider the HPSP at the very expensive schools; it is a complex decision though. I've read post by many on this forum who have conveyed it's important to not accept the HPSP solely for financial reasons...

I got into a discussion with a friend about HPSP and specializing. Most OMFS residency programs pay you to attend on usually PGY-1 salary and it goes up per year. The salary isn't as high as a O-3 straight into the Army but it's close enough where your future salary working in civilian practice will far surpass the salary you're be earning while paying back the 10 years in the army. I know for a fact that newly minted oral surgeons in hospitals earn 200K+ while in private practice I wouldn't expect anything lower than 200k per year. The army salary for an OS is probably maybe 90-100k/year.

After we finished this discussion, we both agreed that going straight GP 4 years and out was the best option if you are going to an expensive school. The most bang for your buck so to speak.

 

[MatthewLeeDDS]

Hey there BoomerSooner I had a few questions for you regarding the HPSP since you seem to have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject. Currently I am working on my pre-reqs for pre-dent and will be gearing up to take my DAT next August so that I may be eligible to matriculate into the Fall 2013 dental programs.

I, personally, have always wanted to serve my country for the longest time but I didn't feel like going enlisted was for me. I recently fell in love with dentistry and found out about the HPSP and how I could get into the Air Force's Healthcare positions.

First off I would like to ask you when I should start talking to healthcare recruiters about the HPSP seeing as how my DAT won't be completed until next summer and I will not graduate until May 2013?

I see many people look into the HPSP and ask what the negatives are... such as being deployed, not being paid as much as civilian counterparts, and being "owned" by the military. I don't really see these as so-called "negatives", I actually find that some of these are actually privileges.

I am curious as to how long you have been working as a military dentist. I am just wondering if it will be a good lifestyle in which to have a family? I do understand that I have a 6-month deployment for every 4 year contract I sign but what is life like while state-side? I also read that every 4 years you are stationed in different locations, how has this worked out in your life?

Now as I stated earlier I know that you aren't paid as much as your civilian counterparts but I'm sure that you can make a living especially if you have a wife with a steady job, right? I see some GP's making 125-175,000 on here and that is great and all but growing up my entire families income was half of that and I can see we lived very happily. Money is obviously not a huge deal to me as long as I can support for my family. Not to mention the HPSP will be paying for my $200,000+ education.

Thank you for your time and have a great day.
Hawk

Well first of all, I'm still a student (class of 2014) so I can't answer the last few questions you asked. Having said that, my focus in life is not about making more and more money... it's about having enough money to enjoy my life and actually have a life I want! I'd rather be debt free and make a bit less, but be able to have this experience than 200-300k in debt but a higher income ceiling. With that said, you can just as easily become a private practice dentist after your 4 year payback.

To answer your other question, it is NEVER too early to start talking to a recruiter. I was already turning in documents he needed and getting things out of the way before I ever took the DAT. Once you take the DAT, then you guys can go from there, but it does you no good to put it off. If you graduate May 2013, then the latest you should be talking to a recruiter is this time in 2012 to have a decent amount of time to get a jump on everything. However, there's no reason you can't contact a recruiter tomorrow and get the ball rolling.

Feel free to email me if you have other question because I don't always come back to look at responses to my posts... good luck with everything!

 

[krmower]

Your obligation in the military can be completed as early as 5 yrs (3 yr HPSP and 2 yr specialty training) or up to 10 yrs (if you do OMFS). How much time you owe will be dependent on the specialty you pick, the HPSP you are offerred (3 or 4 yr), and when you start your specialty training.

When you are done with your obilgation and eligible for the multi year retention bonuses you will find the salaries starting out around $160,000 (I assummed 0-4 w/ 6 yrs service. In addition to all the normal pays, I did not add board certification, and I assummed an average BAH of $1700/month).

As an OMFS when you get done with your 10 yrs you would be around $225,894 (assuming 0-4 at 10 yrs and same info as above). You can run the numbers yourself by using the info found here http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

Also remember that this is a snapshot at this time - pay will go up.

I have found the salaries fair and with the other perks - not a bad career choice for me.