HSUS... the factual deal?

[VetUBet]

Okay, so I have been reading a lot of threads/forums/posts and it seems that the majority here on SDN hate/dislike (call it whatever you want) the Humane Society of the United States. Why? 😕 I am not looking for opinions, as I can already get that from the rest of the threads. Frankly when I read those I just became more confused because it seems people keep putting up "opinions" and not linking their statements to any real evidence (which I am sure there is) that I can go look up. I understand we all have our "opinions" but if I am going to bash or support an organization I need facts, not "to me this is how they are" kind of facts. I would love to hear from all of you (good and bad facts) and please post valid links/evidence/proof so I can research this myself too! Thanks!🙂 Knowledge is power baby!

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[No Imagination]

For me, it's a difference in philosophy.

USHS has become more like PeTA in the sense that they now represent and preach an animal rights mission, and not animal welfare. I am not going to link everything, but if you need proof as to this transition, you can see their stance on the use of circus animals, race animals, food animals, equine slaughter (official stance, not sure). All of these show the organization's mission of being an animal rights advocate. IMO, they are still in the transition of being all the way over - but moving further and further everyday

That is something that I, and many other are fundamentally against. (Animal rights activists do not believe in keeping any non-domestic animals for ANY REASON – no birds, fish, reptiles, amphibians, brine shrimp, ect.) - They have a belief that animals have a fundamental right given to them by god? nature? I don't know what, nor do I know what these rights are, but I do know and understand the outcome of giving these rights to animals.

I don't know what kind of facts you are looking for – but if I told you I was a misogynist, racist or extreme fundamental terrorist– would you need proof of my action to cease supporting me?!

Well, PeTA and USHS are telling you exactly what their beliefs are (not what I listed above), and it is up to you to determine if they mesh with your own beliefs, not ours.

My point is, If you are going to support an organization, make sure you are supporting an organization that BEST reflects your beliefs, and not someone because they are big, have a good PR rant, ect.

Finally, I have nothing against people who understand and support PETA and USHS. Lot of my friends support the Democrats 🙂, I still like them. What I don't like are ignorant people who don't bother to learn what kind of policies the organizations they give money to supports.

Organization X can feed 99 hungry children with my $100.00 donation, but if they kill 1 child because he is the wrong color, then I supported that death - No Utilitarian Rationalization/Ethics here. Understand what you are supporting

 

[chris03333]

Here is the link to AVAR (do not even ask me to comment on this group):

http://www.avar.org/

If you look at the bold statement on the left it tells you about their proud recent merge with HSUS

Here is another part of their site which provides "animal realted links"...(here goes some opinion, take with however many grains of salt you want to) PETA is listed there. That is enough for me to look negative at the group...

http://www.avar.org/links.asp


That is all I will contribute as I have a huge bias and likely will not be good conversation on the matter.

 

[nyanko]

No Imagination basically posted how I feel about the matter. I don't support the animal rights philosophy, so I don't support groups that do. That simple. You're only finding opinions because that's what it boils down to - my opinion is that in a society grounded in human ideals and with inextricably linked laws and rights that assume a level of cognitive and/or moral underpinnings not attributable to species other than human, those other species should not be subject to those laws (would we put a wolf in jail for murdering a deer?), so why should they be afforded the rights?

Like chris03333, my personal and career interests play into my philosophy. This is really something you ought to be informing yourself about if you are interested in applying to vet school anyway. You need to form your own opinions on it, and there are plenty of resources available to find information about the HSUS, including their own financial reports.

edit: Oh, and animal rights activists would eventually see the abolishment of keeping dogs and cats as pets too, not only non-domesticated animals.

 

[Truth74]

I absolutely agree that you'll need to do your own research and make your own decision about the HSUS.

Having worked/ volunteered for both (HSUS and ASPCA), I am of the opinion that the HSUS has gone way off from where they started. I appreciate that the HSVMA found a place for the Rural Area Vet Service in their restructuring, but I wish that subunit was on their own. They give a lot of needed care to lower income areas, and help to train vet students at the same time. Unfortunately, that is the only nice thing that I can say about them.

The ASPCA and other mobile spay and neuter clinics all over the country do the same for under served areas without forcing their agenda.

 

[sumstorm]

Off topic, since I don't deal with HSUS, does anyone have any view points on how far (or not) American Humane has gone on the spectrum? I work with them as a volunteer for disaster relief, and I know they have some certification programs, but I haven't dug as deeply into their philosophies outside of disaster relief (which are pretty good.) I have skimmed through thier information which is vague in some ways...but that doesn't always reveal how an organization actually acts.

As for as HSUS, I found the national organization very frustrating on a local level, when I managed a local HS. We had people become enraged with the officers of our local organization because we couldn't assist in thier personal animal issues (surrendering pets, lost pets, local hoarding/mill situations/whatever project someone had that week) because they DONATED to our organization. It really didn't matter how many times we explained that HSUS is a national organization and that we couldn't even get any funding for them. If I had been around when the local group is, and if anyone ever asks me, I strongly recommend against naming a group with HS in the title.

As for thier stated policies and such....I am not yet certain if there are fringe groups steering a huge organization, or a huge organization utilizing fringe groups to alter course. I do believe that some of thier stuff is sensationalized, and extreme. Some of it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.....like they say they are against factory farming, but don't encourage members to eat locally by obtaining food at farms where they can actually observe the living conditions of the animal....they jump straight to vegetarianism (and veganism.) If the issues is factory farming, then a more efficient way to eliminate it is to put money where factory farming isn't happening (simple economics) but if the issue is the consumption of animals or animal products, then just say that clearly and stand by what you say.

I just find a lot of thier stuff is similar. Thier positions 'sound' clear, but when you examine them more closely, there are inconsistencies or illogical solution pathways. Of course, JMO, which may not be worth much.

 

[VetUBet]

In regards to people stating I need to form my own opinions and do my own research: I have. I have my own opinions from what I have read/heard/seen in the past. But I am hard headed with my views only to a point...I make a stand but I try to the best of my ability to be open minded to what other people have to say on subjects because perhaps someone knows something I don't especially because my opinion formulated throughout the years is totally different than most of yours. Which is totally & completely fine with me, but I think it would be ignorant of me to just say this is my opinion period and not listen to what other facts you guys might have. That's why I started this thread. I know it comes down to opinions but facts can change opinions sometimes. Just thought I would clarify. I'm just being a curious cat here!😎

 

[No Imagination]

VetUBet,

To reiterate, I believe all the facts you need to form your opinion are on the organizations own websites via their mission statements.

As opposed to other people linking these facts - best if it comes from the horses mouth.

 

[VetUBet]

As for as HSUS, I found the national organization very frustrating on a local level, when I managed a local HS. We had people become enraged with the officers of our local organization because we couldn't assist in thier personal animal issues (surrendering pets, lost pets, local hoarding/mill situations/whatever project someone had that week) because they DONATED to our organization. It really didn't matter how many times we explained that HSUS is a national organization and that we couldn't even get any funding for them. If I had been around when the local group is, and if anyone ever asks me, I strongly recommend against naming a group with HS in the title.

That is a huge issue, I agree. When I started working for the Humane Society in my hometown, it was only THEN that I discovered Humane Societies & HSUS are not related nor do they get funding from them. All along I thought they were both related. Why they would chooses similar names is odd because it makes the public think they are connected. Very confusing! One of the groups either the HSUS or the Humane Societies should make it clearer so that people understand their money only goes to one side!

 

[DollyyLlama]

edit: Oh, and animal rights activists would eventually see the abolishment of keeping dogs and cats as pets too, not only non-domesticated animals.

That may be true for some people, but I think "animal rights" and "animal welfare" have some fluidity in their definitions in practice. Someone can identify as being part of a political party/ religion/ etc without agreeing with every aspect of the party line.

It is my (perhaps quixotic) hope that members of the vet field can focus on common ground in service of animals instead of making a faction out of each shade of grey.

I applaud the OP for seeking out information with an open mind.

 

[nyanko]

Really? You can be for "animal rights" and support pet ownership? I'd figure that's pretty much equated to slavery if animals have the same rights as we do...and AR groups will rarely come right out and say it like that because it would risk alienating people who have a blurred distinction between animal rights and animal welfare.

 

[sumstorm]

That is a huge issue, I agree. When I started working for the Humane Society in my hometown, it was only THEN that I discovered Humane Societies & HSUS are not related nor do they get funding from them. All along I thought they were both related. Why they would chooses similar names is odd because it makes the public think they are connected. Very confusing! One of the groups either the HSUS or the Humane Societies should make it clearer so that people understand their money only goes to one side!

Well, even if local groups try to make it clear, they are accused of making excuses, wasting funds, etc. Basicly of 'hiding' the connection to avoid taking responsability. I have handed out the contact info for HSUS many a times to be told that I am wrong, etc. So I think the only option is for HSUS to be clear on that...however, that doesn't work to thier advantage in obtaining donations.

I have to agree with the OP...it can be easy to read through the stuff and not get a clear picture of what the HSUS represents....lots of mixed language, very few clear statements (in my opinion.)

 

[EqSci]

Really? You can be for "animal rights" and support pet ownership? I'd figure that's pretty much equated to slavery if animals have the same rights as we do...and AR groups will rarely come right out and say it like that because it would risk alienating people who have a blurred distinction between animal rights and animal welfare.

I agree. Yes, members of political/religious/societal groups often vary a bit in their beliefs - but they don't vary in the fundamentals of what makes that group. The very definition of animal rights is that animals have the same rights humans do - meaning exactly the above quote, meaning you cannot really be animal rights and pro-pets. That's like someone saying they are Catholic but don't believe in God. 😕 Doesn't make sense. Yes, there are many different variations of Catholicism, but they all have the same fundamental beliefs. As do AR groups and anyone that calls themselves part of the AR groups.

 

[sumstorm]

I agree. Yes, members of political/religious/societal groups often vary a bit in their beliefs - but they don't vary in the fundamentals of what makes that group. The very definition of animal rights is that animals have the same rights humans do - meaning exactly the above quote, meaning you cannot really be animal rights and pro-pets. That's like someone saying they are Catholic but don't believe in God. 😕 Doesn't make sense. Yes, there are many different variations of Catholicism, but they all have the same fundamental beliefs. As do AR groups and anyone that calls themselves part of the AR groups.

I don't even feel like we have completly moved to the point where we (the human race) believe all humans have the same rights, let alone animals.

However, having said that, there are a lot of catholics, even practicing catholics, who know very little about catholocism. I am sure the same is true in many religions.

 

[VetUBet]

Here is the link to AVAR (do not even ask me to comment on this group):

http://www.avar.org/

If you look at the bold statement on the left it tells you about their proud recent merge with HSUS

Here is another part of their site which provides "animal realted links"...(here goes some opinion, take with however many grains of salt you want to) PETA is listed there. That is enough for me to look negative at the group...

http://www.avar.org/links.asp


That is all I will contribute as I have a huge bias and likely will not be good conversation on the matter.

Thank you for those links! I did see that they boldly listed their merger of the HSUS and AVAR and I had no idea that happened. I will look more into that(in between all my studying). See learning so much already! 🙂

 

[VetUBet]

So just to make sure I am understanding, most of the people that have posted so far, you are also against the ASPCA since they are another similar group?👎thumbup:

 

[Truth74]

No. The ASPCA is not the same as the HSUS.

Check out the ASPCA's website at ASPCA.org and see for yourself. Their policy and positions statement is in the about us section to the right.

They have a list addressing pretty much every issue I can think of.

I'm not going to go into the history of the organization, because I can get to going about that.

 

[nyanko]

Once again animal rights is not the same thing as animal welfare.

One tipoff is an organization's position on things like mandatory spay/neuter laws. Here's a hint: this is a tactic used by animal rights groups that sounds perfectly logical at face value, don't we all advocate spaying and neutering for companion animals? However, think about the long-term consequences of the mandatory part of the laws for a minute and it doesn't seem so hot.

ASPCA statement - they support reduced cost sterilization programs but don't believe that mandatory spay-neuter programs are an effective way to combat pet overpopulation.

Here is an article on VIN that mentions a MSN law in Chicago being pushed by HSUS. They make their website intentionally unclear, but a little bit of digging finds a few resources like this.

This is only one example. There are many more. Hate to beat a dead horse, but do your research!!

 

[VeganChick]

I worked very closely with The HSUS on a particular initiative a number of years ago and became close to a number of the members. Since then, I have found that they (as others have stated) have become much more "radical" in their actions regarding the programs they push. It seems to be black or white to them.

I am vegan and while, yes, I think it would be nice if more people are, I am certainly not going to push any "agenda" down somebody else's throat. I have had many people ask me why I am vegan and I tell them because of animal suffering. Usually they will ask a few more specific questions and I answer them, but I absolutely do not judge someone for not being vegan and I definitely would not send any "propaganda" (even if true) videos to people to "explain" my views. As far as I am concerned, my choice is my personal choice and other people choose what they want to. End of story. The HSUS members, however, will dive into great detail about the "animal suffering, " making it seem like a judgement. For example, all of the vending machines at their office only offer vegan snacks.

My other issue with The HSUS is the handling of disasters, particularly Katrina. While they were praised greatly for their work in housing animals, my understanding is that they pretty much botched the situation and had to call in other organizations for help. The stories I heard about the facility they were operating were as bad as at the worse rescue organizations. Yet they sent out press release after press release talking about how great they (and they alone) were.

I'm sorry - and really am, because I used to fully support and contribute to - The HSUS. It makes me sad, the direction they have gone.

** Disclaimer: I do send out The HSUS information regarding the brutal killing of baby seals every year in Canada and usually this information has some sort of video attached.

 

[No Imagination]

However, think about the long-term consequences of the mandatory part of the laws for a minute and it doesn't seem so hot.

I used that very argument during my interview (was asked how I felt about the (failed?) law in California a few years back which would have made Spay/Neuter mandatory.

I made your argument Nyanko, then linked it to Kants Categorical Imperative "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

Concluded that the law was therefore unjust - the interviewer raised an eyebrow, and wrote something down. Don't know how that went over, but I figured anytime you can quote Kant, you kant go wrong

 

[Electrophile]

This sure doesn't hurt to make a point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDSyIBxat7c&eurl

 

[Shanomong]

Just saw this article, thought of this thread....



Posted On December 11, 2008

New York Times Ad Condemns Humane Society of the United States for Terror Fundraising

Consumer Group: HSUS Vice President Will Keynote Benefit For Animal-rights Terrorism Group

Washington -- A full-page ad from the nonprofit Center for Consumer Freedom will appear in the front section of the December 11 New York Times, accusing the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) of helping an animal-rights terrorism group raise money.

On December 13, HSUS Senior Vice President Heidi Prescott is scheduled to deliver a keynote address at The Humane League of Philadelphia’s holiday fundraising party. The Humane League of Philadelphia was founded in July 2002 as the Philadelphia chapter of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC), an organization convicted in 2006 -- along with six of its national leaders -- on federal domestic terrorism charges.

The Humane League of Philadelphia’s own president, Nick Cooney, was convicted in 2006 of making terroristic threats against the children of a pharmaceutical company employee.

The Center for Consumer Freedom’s ad includes a timeline showing the evolution of The Humane League of Philadelphia, and reads in part:

The Humane Society of the United States claims to be a mainstream, peaceful advocate for animals. Why is it helping a terrorist group raise money?

There’s a lot you don’t know about the Humane Society of the United States. Learn more at www.HumaneWatch.org
​

Speaking about the Times ad, Center for Consumer Freedom Director of Research David Martosko said: “It’s shocking but true. The Humane Society of the United States is not the mainstream animal-protection group it pretends to be. Consorting with the violent underbelly of the animal rights movement is a clear sign that this group has lost its way. America's dog and cat shelters could benefit from a genuine national Humane Society. But HSUS is just a PETA knock-off with more money and the same warped agenda.”

Martosko continued: “The Humane League of Philadelphia and SHAC Philly are one and the same. SHAC is a convicted terrorist group that has targeted its victims and their families for many years. It’s remarkable that the Humane Society of the United States thought it could get away with lending support to these people.”
The New York Times ad is available at http://humanewatch.org/HSUSad_NYT.pdf
The Center for Consumer Freedom is a nonprofit coalition supported by restaurants, food companies, and consumers, working together to promote personal responsibility and protect consumer choices.

For media comment, contact our media department at 202-463-7112 ext. 115

 

[Pandacinny]

That's interesting, but just a note. The Center for Consumer Freedom is just another lobbying group. They also ran the "PETA Kills Animals" site, I think. They're just as biased as HSUS or PETA, so take anything they say with a grain of salt just as you would for the other two organizations.

 

[DollyyLlama]

right. where did this story come form? it looks like a press release from the consumer freedom group, which is why it only quotes that side.

 

[Shanomong]

right. where did this story come form? it looks like a press release from the consumer freedom group, which is why it only quotes that side.

Yea I copied that from an email and reposted it when I was 1/2 asleep, didn't check the source. It is a press release from the consumer freedom group... not that I would have known what that meant bias wise but I could have googled it 😛

 

[chris03333]

http://www.vidoosh.tv/play.php?vid=4360

 

[jglovicz]

Just my quick two cents...in a society of "animal rights", most if not all vets would be out of a job. No one would be able to own pets, eat meat, wear leather, or use animals for research (to name a few).