I absolutely will not...

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Doula-2-OB

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Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason, and I wonder if these types of hardline things matter once you show up to med school. I was talking with a Family Practice doc friend of mine yesterday who said that in her class they did 'dog lab' where they take a living dog and anesthetize it, and perform procedures on it, which results in the death of the dog. She said many students refused to do it. So I'm just wondering about things like this... anyone have insight?
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason, and I wonder if these types of hardline things matter once you show up to med school. I was talking with a Family Practice doc friend of mine yesterday who said that in her class they did 'dog lab' where they take a living dog and anesthetize it, and perform procedures on it, which results in the death of the dog. She said many students refused to do it. So I'm just wondering about things like this... anyone have insight?

Willing to try anything
that what being a MD is about taking chances 😀
 
Doesn't circumcision result in a healthier urinary/reproductive system? I've heard unc'd adult males are more prone to infections and whatnot from the extra skin.
 
Rafa is correct, it is much cleaner for the man to be circumcised. Also, studies have shown that long-time female partners of uncircumcised males have a higher chance of cervical cancer. There's a couple of medical reasons for ya doula. So even if you don't want to do it for the kid, think of your sisters you'll be helping in the future by reducing their chance of cervical cancer.
 
Rafa said:
Doesn't circumcision result in a healthier urinary/reproductive system? I've heard unc'd adult males are more prone to infections and whatnot from the extra skin.
Actually there have been several studies that have disproven that theory. There is no currently accepted health benefit to circumcision so far as I am aware.
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason, and I wonder if these types of hardline things matter once you show up to med school.

It is somewhat unlikely that you will be asked to perform a circumcision while in med school. Chill.
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason, and I wonder if these types of hardline things matter once you show up to med school. I was talking with a Family Practice doc friend of mine yesterday who said that in her class they did 'dog lab' where they take a living dog and anesthetize it, and perform procedures on it, which results in the death of the dog. She said many students refused to do it. So I'm just wondering about things like this... anyone have insight?

There is no way I am killing a dog 😡
 
DropkickMurphy said:
Actually there have been several studies that have disproven that theory. There is no currently accepted health benefit to circumcision so far as I am aware.

pubmed said:
Chlamydia trachomatis infection in female partners of circumcised and uncircumcised adult men.

Male circumcision has been shown to reduce the risk of acquiring and transmitting a number of venereal infections. However, little is known about the association between male circumcision and the risk of Chlamydia trachomatis infection in the female partner. The authors pooled data on 305 adult couples enrolled as controls in one of five case-control studies of invasive cervical cancer conducted in Thailand, the Philippines, Brazil, Colombia, and Spain between 1985 and 1997. Women provided blood samples for C. trachomatis and Chlamydia pneumoniae antibody detection; a type-specific microfluorescence assay was used. Multivariate odds ratios were computed for the association between male circumcision status and chlamydial seropositivity in women. Compared with women with uncircumcised partners, those with circumcised partners had a 5.6-fold reduced risk of testing seropositive for C. trachomatis (82% reduction; odds ratio = 0.18, 95% confidence interval: 0.05, 0.58). The inverse association was also observed after restricting the analysis to monogamous women and their only male partners (odds ratio = 0.21, 95% confidence interval: 0.06, 0.72). In contrast, seropositivity to C. pneumoniae, a non-sexually-transmitted infection, was not significantly related to circumcision status of the male partner. These findings suggest that male circumcision could reduce the risk of C. trachomatis infection in female sexual partners.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16177149&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

pubmed said:
Penile Cancer

Penile cancer, while relatively rare in the western world, remains a disease with severe morbidity and mortality, not to mention significant psychological ramifications. Furthermore, the disease is observed with dramatically increased incidence in other parts of the world. A review of the literature has shown that the overwhelming majority of penile cancers are in situ or invasive squamous cell carcinomas, including a well-differentiated variant, verrucous carcinoma. Important predisposing factors are lack of circumcision, human papillomavirus infections, and penile lichen sclerosus, although other factors have occasionally been reported as well. Prevention, careful monitoring of patients at risk, and early diagnosis are essential to reduce the incidence of penile carcinoma and to provide a definitive cure. Public health measures, such as prophylactic use of circumcision, have proved successful but are controversial. Also, no standard therapeutic guidelines as to the best treatment strategy according to different stages, including efficacy of conservative nonsurgical modalities and indications for lymph nodal dissection, are available so far. It is common opinion that penile cancer is an emerging problem that deserves further investigations, and physicians, especially dermatologists, should be aware of this issue. LEARNING OBJECTIVE: At the completion of this learning activity, participants should be familiar with penile carcinoma, its risk factors, its clinical and histologic presentation, and the treatments currently available for its management.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16488287&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason, and I wonder if these types of hardline things matter once you show up to med school. I was talking with a Family Practice doc friend of mine yesterday who said that in her class they did 'dog lab' where they take a living dog and anesthetize it, and perform procedures on it, which results in the death of the dog. She said many students refused to do it. So I'm just wondering about things like this... anyone have insight?

I also shall be against performing circumcisions unless medically necessary. (Cleanliness is not an adequate reason in a world with soap and plumbing.) I would also prefer to not prescribe medications to people who are clearly addicted to them, although I hear that this is a losing battle.
 
I've asked around about the dog lab; I was pretty freaked out by it also. Sounds like they don't really do it anymore. Fido has been spared by the advent of the simulation lab.
 
Point taken, I stand corrected even though I also question the validity of the study due to the possibility that other factors played a role (namely hygeine and other practices). But I also believe that the reduction associated with basic precautions- i.e. condoms- would probably be far greater.
 
Although I can't think of any procedures I'd be averse to, I do hope to become more comfortable with the visual aesthetics of broken arms, limbs, and fingers.
 
doula said:
I was talking with a Family Practice doc friend of mine yesterday who said that in her class they did 'dog lab' where they take a living dog and anesthetize it, and perform procedures on it, which results in the death of the dog. She said many students refused to do it. So I'm just wondering about things like this... anyone have insight?

There's a chapter about dog lab in White Coat by Perri Klass...
 
jenna jameson claims that unc'd males feel better for the women...but then again she said the same thing about carrots and cucumbers...
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason, and I wonder if these types of hardline things matter once you show up to med school. I was talking with a Family Practice doc friend of mine yesterday who said that in her class they did 'dog lab' where they take a living dog and anesthetize it, and perform procedures on it, which results in the death of the dog. She said many students refused to do it. So I'm just wondering about things like this... anyone have insight?

Obviously you have not been following the news over the past year about HIV: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2209173,00.html
 
Uncircumsized males are more likely to give a female parter UTIs; however, this can be prevented if a guy is very cautious about always keeping himself clean. But how many guys spend the time in the shower making sure that their penis is as clean as possible and cleans it after going to the bathroom? If I have sons, I'm pretty sure they will be circ'ed unless I cannot convince the hubby. No/fewer UTIs + reduced chance for cervical cancer=me for circ's

To brettbachelor: why won't you do facial surgeries? I mean I could understand your objection for doing face lifts and such, but what about kids born with cleft lip/palate? I think those kids are deserving of facial reconstruction surgery.

My 2 cents though..
 
Are there consequences when you just won't do something? Do they have to provide another option?
 
Please stop unnecessarily mutilating young male babies over dubious procedures, especially since it's irreversible (at least without huge expense) and something the child has no choice in.
 
I refuse to do pap smears. I believe the vagina is the house of the female spirit and I am morally opposed to disturbing the sanctity of the vessel.
 
Doula, it depends on what you refuse to do. In terms of abortion, don't be a OB/GYN if you don't want to do it. I absolutely won't perform them, so I don't intend to be an OB/GYN (not that it was an interest anyway). Also, some (maybe most?) states have laws protecting physicians from performing them due to ethical reasons.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
Please stop unnecessarily mutilating young male babies over dubious procedures, especially since it's irreversible (at least without huge expense) and something the child has no choice in.

I always said that same thing about babies with pierced ears - what if the kid doesn't want holes in its ears.
 
Brickhouse said:
I always said that same thing about babies with pierced ears - what if the kid doesn't want holes in its ears.

I don't think we should mutilate the sanctity of the umbilical cord. Why remove a child's tether from its mother? This barbaric practice must end at once.
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Are there consequences when you just won't do something? Do they have to provide another option?

You have a decent amount of leeway to choose not to do rotations/residencies which will require you to do procedures like circumcisions. But yes, if you are refusing to do stuff repeatedly it often makes more work for others and may make you look bad. And recommendations from your superiors are the name of the game here, so you want to seem eager to work, and learn new procedures, not avoid them.
 
Rafa said:
I don't think we should mutilate the sanctity of the umbilical cord. Why remove a child's tether from its mother? This barbaric practice must end at once.




see my last post on page 1 - I'm with you the ridiculousness of not doing certain things.....but ear piercing? c'mon.
 
Rafa said:
I don't think we should mutilate the sanctity of the umbilical cord. Why remove a child's tether from its mother? This barbaric practice must end at once.

The human body was designed/evolved/whatever to have the umbilicus detach from the mother. The male penis is supposed to have a prepuce/foreskin.
 
SeminoleFan3 said:
Doula, it depends on what you refuse to do. In terms of abortion, don't be a OB/GYN if you don't want to do it. I absolutely won't perform them, so I don't intend to be an OB/GYN (not that it was an interest anyway). Also, some (maybe most?) states have laws protecting physicians from performing them due to ethical reasons.

You may also want to consider staying away from EMED. Many pro-life doctors have problems prescribing the Morning After pill to rape victims who come in.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
The human body was designed/evolved/whatever to have the umbilicus detach from the mother. The male penis is supposed to have a prepuce/foreskin.

By that logic, then we shouldn't perform surgery on anything, because we have evolved to die from things like appendicitis, etc.
 
For me (at this point) the only procedure I'm a real hardliner about is circumcision. I'm intentionally not engaging in the debate about it (because my reasons aren't really important to anyone else but me) but I definitely would like to know that if I refuse to do it, if it's going to totally screw up my chances down the line. Thanks for all the feedback. 🙂

prazmatic said:
You may also want to consider staying away from EMED. Many pro-life doctors have problems prescribing the Morning After pill to rape victims who come in.
 
Brickhouse said:
see my last post on page 1 - I'm with you the ridiculousness of not doing certain things.....but ear piercing? c'mon.

:^) I wasn't disagreeing with you on the ear piercings. AFAIK, there aren't any medical benefits to those...it seems to be purely a cultural phenom.

Law2Doc said:
By that logic, then we shouldn't perform surgery on anything, because we have evolved to die from things like appendicitis, etc.

👍
 
Law2Doc said:
By that logic, then we shouldn't perform surgery on anything, because we have evolved to die from things like appendicitis, etc.

Appendicitis a disease. Having a prepuce isn't a disease, it's removed for religious and for dubious medical reasons.

We don't remove the appendix prophylactally since any surgery carries risks, and the risk of surgery greatly outweighs the early removal of a healthy appendix. The prepuce is removed because the risks are low, but they don't outweigh the "benefits" in my opinion.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
Appendicitis a disease. Having a prepuce isn't a disease, it's removed for religious and for dubious medical reasons.

We don't remove the appendix prophylactally since any surgery carries risks, and the risk of surgery greatly outweighs the early removal of a healthy appendix. The prepuce is removed because the risks are low, but they don't outweigh the "benefits" in my opinion.

sounds like someone is still fuming about having their tallywhacker trimmed at birth. The nerve those quacks have. It's unauthorized circumcisions now, but what's next? Where will society's desire for a more aesthetically looking penis take us in the future? Only time will tell. May god have mercy on your souls...and your penises.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
Appendicitis a disease. Having a prepuce isn't a disease, it's removed for religious and for dubious medical reasons.

👍
 
Law2Doc said:
I'm having mine ribbed. Maybe detailed with a little racing stripe too.


wanna come over later? 😉
 
Doula-2-OB said:
For me (at this point) the only procedure I'm a real hardliner about is circumcision. I'm intentionally not engaging in the debate about it (because my reasons aren't really important to anyone else but me) but I definitely would like to know that if I refuse to do it, if it's going to totally screw up my chances down the line. Thanks for all the feedback. 🙂

You really do bring up an excellent point, Doula. I am completely against circumcision (in developed nations, anyway)- but since the practice is so fashionable in the United States I will undoubtedly be required to perform it if I go into Ob/Gyn or Pediatrics. So I guess that knocks those two specialties off my list...

Oddly enough, though, I have no moral qualms with clitorectomies. Go figure... (joking, by the way)
 
I don't understand the passionate circumcision beliefs. Are guys afraid they'll end up needing that back some day? Is there some deep freud-style angst circumcised males must live with, like they have repressed memories of the doctor yanking them from the womb and attacking their penis? I admit I have zero experience in circumcision, so feel free to explain. It don't see why you wouldn't just do what the parents want for lack of any significant medical reason to do otherwise.
 
As an OB I won't perform them (why would an OB do circs anyway... what do they know about a penis? LOL). If my patients want it done I'll refer them to their pediatrician or a urologist.

Schaden Freud said:
You really do bring up an excellent point, Doula. I am completely against circumcision (in developed nations, anyway)- but since the practice is so fashionable in the United States I will undoubtedly be required to perform it if I go into Ob/Gyn or Pediatrics. So I guess that knocks those two specialties off my list...
 
SeminoleFan3 said:
Doula, it depends on what you refuse to do. In terms of abortion, don't be a OB/GYN if you don't want to do it. I absolutely won't perform them, so I don't intend to be an OB/GYN (not that it was an interest anyway). Also, some (maybe most?) states have laws protecting physicians from performing them due to ethical reasons.

Goddamit. There are many pro-life OB/Gyns who will have nothing to do with elective abortion. There is no requirement at most OB/Gyn programs that residents perform elective abortions if they have moral objections. Some abortions are medically necessary. (Ectopic pregnancy, etc.) Additionally, the procedure for a D & C is the same whether it is an elective abortion or treatment for an incomplete spontaneous abortion. Therefore you will learn appropriate surgical techniques without having to murder babies in the process.

Now, you may find yourself ostracized by your collegues so you need to shop around for programs that are more accepting of diverse points of you (in this case the conservative one).

Please visit my blog at this link for the December archive where you may read an article called "A Subversive Thought" for the true facts about this issue and how it affects physicians.

http://pandabearmd.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_pandabearmd_archive.html
 
riff raff said:
sounds like someone is still fuming about having their tallywhacker trimmed at birth. The nerve those quacks have. It's unauthorized circumcisions now, but what's next? Where will society's desire for a more aesthetically looking penis take us in the future? Only time will tell. May god have mercy on your souls...and your penises.
I'd say you hit the nail on the head with that one Riff-Raff. 😀
 
Doula-2-OB said:
As an OB I won't perform them (why would an OB do circs anyway... what do they know about a penis? LOL). If my patients want it done I'll refer them to their pediatrician or a urologist.

In that case I'm sure you will be a very popular OB with tons of referals. 🙄
 
In that case I'm sure you will be a very popular OB with tons of referals. 🙄


Snarky, snarky.

Where I live, OBs don't do circs, peds do. There aren't circs done in the hospital, patients have to make a separate appointment with their ped to have it done. Insurance doesn't cover it (seeing as it is an elective, cosmetic procedure and all). It wouldn't cause me any stress to not do circs for my patients.

And why in the world would my patient load be contingent on whether I slice baby penises or not? That makes no sense.
 
Doula-2-OB said:
Snarky, snarky.

Where I live, OBs don't do circs, peds do. There aren't circs done in the hospital, patients have to make a separate appointment with their ped to have it done. Insurance doesn't cover it (seeing as it is an elective, cosmetic procedure and all). It wouldn't cause me any stress to not do circs for my patients.

Actually, while shadowing a pediatrician over the past year, she has preformed a circumcision everytime(not on every male baby) we visited the newborn ward in the hospital. She tries to talk the parents out of doing a circ because it's not medically necessary, but most parents want it done so they don't have to explain to the child that they need to clean under the skin. In fewer words, American parents are prudes and are willing to mutilate their son "just because everyone else does it" or they want junior to be the same as the father.
 
Panda Bear said:
Goddamit. There are many pro-life OB/Gyns who will have nothing to do with elective abortion. There is no requirement at most OB/Gyn programs that residents perform elective abortions if they have moral objections. Some abortions are medically necessary. (Ectopic pregnancy, etc.) Additionally, the procedure for a D & C is the same whether it is an elective abortion or treatment for an incomplete spontaneous abortion. Therefore you will learn appropriate surgical techniques without having to murder babies in the process.

Now, you may find yourself ostracized by your collegues so you need to shop around for programs that are more accepting of diverse points of you (in this case the conservative one).

Please visit my blog at this link for the December archive where you may read an article called "A Subversive Thought" for the true facts about this issue and how it affects physicians.

http://pandabearmd.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_pandabearmd_archive.html

Wow....the compassion is just oozing from your pores - staunchly pro-life and so beholden to a higher power - except if you have to treat homeless people...because they're dirty alcoholics and should stay far far away. WWJD, eh?
 
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