I absolutely will not...

[Schaden Freud]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I've noticed frequent citation of decreased pleasure in circumcised men inside and out of this thread. How is this determined, anyway?

Uncut guy: Damn, that was some HOT SEX I had yesterday.
Cut guy: Oy vey, I knew I needed that!

Anyway, I'm cut, and the truth is in CERTAIN situations things get a little stretched. How does the surgeon determine how much skin to remove? Like Cal, I've had chafing problems and even skin breakage in the region in question, which from a number of perspectives can't be healthy. Isn't it possible to just cut part of the prepuce so that you're less crevice-y and gross, but still have some leeway on the stretching? I don't know much about prepuce anatomy, I've not yet had my hands on an intact penis.

We could standardize a foreskin sensation assay by titrating a solution of capsaicin (the stuff that makes jalapenos HOT) and having men stick their ding dongs into a cup of it, timing how long they can hold it in there. We can also gauge the pain by monitoring heart rate, pupil contraction, etc.

 

[lilnoelle]

I don't know many men that are uncircumsized, (this thread sort of surprised me actually) but the one I do know had to be circumsized before he got married to my sister at the age of 40. (I'm pretty sure it was for health reasons, not because my sister wanted him to) He was extremely sore for weeks. I'm sure he wished his parents had circumsized him as an infant so he didn't have to deal with it at an older age. My son was circumsized and I didn't even think twice about doing it. He acted uncomfortable for about two days.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I've noticed frequent citation of decreased pleasure in circumcised men inside and out of this thread. How is this determined, anyway?

Uncut guy: Damn, that was some HOT SEX I had yesterday.
Cut guy: Oy vey, I knew I needed that!

Anyway, I'm cut, and the truth is in CERTAIN situations things get a little stretched. How does the surgeon determine how much skin to remove? Like Cal, I've had chafing problems and even skin breakage in the region in question, which from a number of perspectives can't be healthy. Isn't it possible to just cut part of the prepuce so that you're less crevice-y and gross, but still have some leeway on the stretching? I don't know much about prepuce anatomy, I've not yet had my hands on an intact penis.

I've known some adults who had the circ done while adults, and they describe reduce sensation. The prepuce is supposed to be there to protect the very sensitive head region of the penis. If it is malformed in such a way that it keeps you from having an erection or makes you have a painful erection (by being too tight), it can be modified to correct the problem.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

This is what I was thinking nearly all throughout this thread. I already have sex more than I want because my husband "needs" it more than I do... I can't imagine what it would be like if he wasn't circumsized.
I don't know many men that are uncircumsized, (this thread sort of surprised me actually) but the one I do know had to be circumsized before he got married to my sister at the age of 40. (I'm pretty sure it was for health reasons, not because my sister wanted him to) He was extremely sore for weeks. I'm sure he wished his parents had circumsized him as an infant so he didn't have to deal with it at an older age. My son was circumsized and I didn't even think twice about doing it. He acted uncomfortable for about two days.

So circumcision is a way to town down the male sex drive? Anyways, having a prepuce doesn't make you some kind of sex maniac. It's supposed to be there to protect the head of the penis. That's all.

 

[Schaden Freud]

This is what I was thinking nearly all throughout this thread. I already have sex more than I want because my husband "needs" it more than I do... I can't imagine what it would be like if he wasn't circumsized.
I don't know many men that are uncircumsized, (this thread sort of surprised me actually) but the one I do know had to be circumsized before he got married to my sister at the age of 40. (I'm pretty sure it was for health reasons, not because my sister wanted him to) He was extremely sore for weeks. I'm sure he wished his parents had circumsized him as an infant so he didn't have to deal with it at an older age. My son was circumsized and I didn't even think twice about doing it. He acted uncomfortable for about two days.

Well, actually your personal problem would better be solved by a public health policy of removing the testicles at birth...

Nothing more annoying than sex, right? Eugh!

 

[DrBowtie]

So circumcision is a way to town down the male sex drive? Anyways, having a prepuce doesn't make you some kind of sex maniac. It's supposed to be there to protect the head of the penis. That's all.

In the time of pants, boxers, boxer briefs, tighty whiteys, how much protection does it need?

 

[Doula-2-OB]

What are their ages?

My oldest is a month away from 9 and my youngest is 5.

 

[DrBowtie]

My oldest is a month away from 9 and my youngest is 5.

At those ages, Most kids wouldn't even know the difference if they saw a cut one vs. their own.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

In the time of pants, boxers, boxer briefs, tighty whiteys, how much protection does it need?

Exatly, those produce constant rubbing against the glans which wasn't designed/evolved to touch cloth or anything but the prepuce. Those aren't protection.

 

[DrBowtie]

Exatly, those produce constant rubbing against the glans which wasn't designed/evolved to touch cloth or anything but the prepuce. Those aren't protection.

Whatever man. We aren't out on the African Plains, exposed to the elements. I've never had any problems. Maybe you can pa$$ your patients on to me. 😀

 

[Wackie]

Abortions. If I have a patient requesting one, I'll have to send them somewhere else.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

At those ages, Most kids wouldn't even know the difference if they saw a cut one vs. their own.

How long until they do? What difference does it make, really- I'm sure you're right, eventually they'll notice. But my answer remains the same: some boys have their tips lopped off, and some boys are left whole. You, my dear son, was left whole, to decide to do whatever you wish with your foreskin.

 

[Brickhouse]

We could standardize a foreskin sensation assay by titrating a solution of capsaicin (the stuff that makes jalapenos HOT) and having men stick their ding dongs into a cup of it, timing how long they can hold it in there. We can also gauge the pain by monitoring heart rate, pupil contraction, etc.

LMFAO 👍

 

[Doula-2-OB]

In the time of pants, boxers, boxer briefs, tighty whiteys, how much protection does it need?

How much protection does a clitoris need? I mean if it doesn't harm boys, why aren't we doing it to girls, too? I'm sure if we have years and years of circing girls we can come up with some medical benefits to not having a clitoral hood.

 

[DrBowtie]

How much protection does a clitoris need? I mean if it doesn't harm boys, hwy aren't we doing it to girls, too? I'm sure if we have years and years of circing girls we can come up with some medical benefits to not having a clitoral hood.

I'm not knowledgable enough to have this debate about clitoral circumcision. How common is it in America? I thought it was mainly a cultural thing in other countries.

 

[Schaden Freud]

In the time of pants, boxers, boxer briefs, tighty whiteys, how much protection does it need?

Indeed. And in the age of soap, water, and antibiotics- how much surgery do we need to avoid an infection?

 

[Doula-2-OB]

How common is it in America? I thought it was mainly a cultural thing in other countries.

European men could make the same statement about Americans regarding male circumcision.

 

[DrBowtie]

European men could make the same statement about Americans regarding male circumcision.

Yes, but most of us are American hence we take the American standard 🙄

 

[DrBowtie]

Indeed. And in the age of soap, water, and antibiotics- how much surgery do we need to avoid an infection?

2 seconds of pain saves a lifetime of cleaning.

 

[Schaden Freud]

2 seconds of pain saves a lifetime of cleaning.

I wish I could have my anus surgically removed. Think of all the money I'd save on toilet paper!

Ahhh, anyway, fun thread- but I'm off to dinner. Hold up the fort, LifetimeDoc! 🙂

 

[Mister Pie]

Eh, you shouldn't underestimate how much (and how many) of our society values physical appearance. Having bad acne doesn't only affect the individual psychologically, it also affects the way they are treated by other people. For the most part, I agree though-- accutane isn't necessary until you have moderate to severe acne.

Okay, let's break this down...

Cystic Acne: could possibly cause disfigurement of the face if not treated
Myopia: well, true...you don't need to have contacts except in extreme circumstances where glass/plastic lenses would be too heavy for strong prescriptions
Misaligned Teeth: keyword "misaligned", not in proper alignment, possibly interfering with mandible growth.
Fungal Infection: keyword "infection", not supposed to be there. I've had a fungal infection for decades, and it causes very painful ingrown toenails
Prepuce: normal part of the male genitalia, might possibly lead to normal sexual sensation if left alone
QUOTE]


Okay, taking the acne consequence to its extreme (disfigurement- not very likely, but I'll go with it)... even then, what would be the "medical need" for preventing said disfigurement? So that the child doesn't grow up to look different then everyone else. The fact remains that the only effect is psychological.

The vast majority of overbites do not cause any serious issues with mandible growth. I've had a huge overbite my whole life (sucked my thumb well into elementary school). Mom took me to an orthodontist when I was eleven who definitely recommened braces, but we never got them because she couldn't afford it. Guess what- I'm fine.

Toenail infections- please, entirely cosmetic. Whether it "should be there" or not, it doesn't do any harm. It just looks gross. I've had one since I was a kid, and I've never gotten an ingrown on that toe. Never heard that there was a causal link before...

All these other commonly accepted medical interventions carry some risk (accutane- that's obvious; contacts- more risk of infection than with glasses; lamisil- possible liver damage, among others) and yet no one seems to have a problem with them (myself included.)

I'm just trying to establish that parents have the socially-accepted ability to choose medical interventions for their children solely for the purpose of preventing/alleviating cosmetic and psychological discomfort, and so if this is their reason for choosing a relatively harmless and culturally accepted procedure like circumcision, then so be it.

 

[MirrorTodd]

word

don't do it to your newborn and 10-15 years down the road he will be watching some good ol' fashioned porn and come running to you crying, going "my pee pee doesn't look like THAT man's"

what will you do then hmm?

I've seen plenty of uncut guys when I'm watching porn. As a matter of fact, I always give my uncirc. buddies a good high five whenever we see one of those. Then, we put a checkmark up on the blackboard. Believe me, if the guy's watching porn, he'll already know about the whole circumcision thing. What with schools advancing their sex-ed as much as they are these days. I was discussing this stuff in 7th grade with all of my friends, guys and girls. One of the guys was asking how the pee comes out with it all closed off.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Although I was circed, my wife and I chose not to circ our son. It is absolutely medically unnecessary. The claims about reducing disease transmission to females is garbage. Why, then, would STDs be significantly transmitted from male to female in a country where most males are circed, like the US? Disease transmission is best prevented by condom use, not circumcision.

Why not let your sons choose if they want to be circumcised later in life? If it provides all the health benefits that people say it does, why not leave the choice to your son when he is old enough to choose for himself.

Female circumcisions are routinely performed in countries like Egypt for the same "Health Reasons" for which male circumcisions are performed here, and most American women cringe at the thought. Why, then, would you choose to have an unnecessary medical procedure performed on your sons?

 

[Brickhouse]

Why not let your sons choose if they want to be circumcised later in life? If it provides all the health benefits that people say it does, why not leave the choice to your son when he is old enough to choose for himself.

By that logic, you could hold off on vaccinations, due to their risks, and allow your child to make that decision for himself, too.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

2 seconds of pain saves a lifetime of cleaning.

You don't clean your penis???

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Originally Posted by BrettBatchelor
2 seconds of pain saves a lifetime of cleaning.

You don't clean your penis???

Good one!

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

By that logic, you could hold off on vaccinations, due to their risks, and allow your child to make that decision for himself, too.

No, because vaccinations have a clear and IMMEDIATE health benefit.

Even those that claim that circumcision helps prevent the spread of STDs will surely concede that their 1 year old (or, more accurately, their newborn) won't be having sex, right?

Anyone can catch the measels, even newborns.

 

[breck]

Is there anything that you absolutely will not do? For me, it's circumcision. I absolutely refuse 100% to do this surgery on a newborn without a medical reason

Why wouldn't you do it for the simple reason that the mother wants their child to be circumcised??? These quotes come straight from your website:

"I believe in trusting women to know what is right for their body, baby and family in any given moment."

"My intention is to always be an advocate for compassion in birth and power for women to choose, instead of being told what to do. This is the foundation of my practice."


There seems to be a direct conflict between what you preach and what you want to practice. 😕

 

[Doula-2-OB]

Yes, but most of us are American hence we take the American standard 🙄

So? We're talking about what's better for boys in general, right? Not just American boys. Let's think globally, people. A penis is a penis, no matter its country of origin.

 

[Brickhouse]

No, because vaccinations have a clear and IMMEDIATE health benefit.

Even those that claim that circumcision helps prevent the spread of STDs will surely concede that their 1 year old (or, more accurately, their newborn) won't be having sex, right?

Anyone can catch the measels, even newborns.

blah blah blah who is that in your avatar?

 

[Brickhouse]

A penis is a penis, no matter its country of origin.

You've obviously never been with a Swede.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

As a doula, I give input on the pros and cons, I give information on both, and I have clients who circ, and those who don't.

There's a difference between supporting a client's right to choose (which I absolutely do, to lengths you would be shocked to hear), and holding the knife. If my patient wants to circ, I will support her in choosing that for her son by referring to a provider who can do it in a compassionate way. I will not hold the knife. I will always give both sides of the issue. But that doesn't mean that *I* have to be the one to carry it out.

Why wouldn't you do it for the simple reason that the mother wants their child to be circumcised??? These quotes come straight from your website:

"I believe in trusting women to know what is right for their body, baby and family in any given moment."

"My intention is to always be an advocate for compassion in birth and power for women to choose, instead of being told what to do. This is the foundation of my practice."


There seems to be a direct conflict between what you preach and what you want to practice. 😕

 

[Doula-2-OB]

You've obviously never been with a Swede.

True. 😉

Does that mean that you have?

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

blah blah blah who is that in your avatar?

Sonny Crockett

 

[DropkickMurphy]

There was actually a study that said that female circumcision leads to a major increase in the rate of bleeding complications at the time of delivery, and also increased infant mortality drastically.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

There was actually a study that said that female circumcision leads to a major increase in the rate of bleeding complications at the time of delivery, and also increased infant mortality drastically.

There are studies that show that coffee drinking leads to increased susceptability to foot fungus. And your point is? Just because a study exists doesn't mean it is valid.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You've obviously never been with a Swede.

There's a difference between supporting a client's right to choose (which I absolutely do, to lengths you would be shocked to hear)....

Given the doulas we dealt with when my ex-fiancee was pregnant with my daughter....I wouldn't shock me in the slightest. The only people associated with that pregnancy I have a bigger problem with are the crackpot midwives our insurance tried to force upon us.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

Given the doulas we dealt with when my ex-fiancee was pregnant with my daughter....I wouldn't shock me in the slightest. The only people associated with that pregnancy I have a bigger problem with are the crackpot midwives our insurance tried to force upon us.

I'm sorry to hear that, DropkickMurphy. There are some wacky doulas out there, but every profession has its nutters.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Yeah, there was one young doula who was very nice and helpful, but she was effectively bullied out of the way by an insane older doula.

The "nutters" seem to be the rule rather than the exception with the midwives though.

 

[Brickhouse]

I'm sorry to hear that, DropkickMurphy. There are some wacky doulas out there, but every profession has its nutters.

wasn't your avatar different 5 minutes ago?

 

[Law2Doc]

Indeed. And in the age of soap, water, and antibiotics- how much surgery do we need to avoid an infection?

When you get to med school and beyond, you will start to take it for granted that many patients coming into the hospital do not have particularly good hygeine and cleaning skills, and those of us healthy and clean individuals on SDN unfortunately do not represent the national norm. The age of soap and water has not become globally popular even in the States, where both are plentiful.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

wasn't your avatar different 5 minutes ago?

Yeah- I didn't have one.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

When you get to med school and beyond, you will start to take it for granted that many patients coming into the hospital do not have particularly good hygeine and cleaning skills, and those of us healthy and clean individuals on SDN unfortunately do not represent the national norm. The age of soap and water has not become globally popular even in the States, where both are plentiful.

By that same logic, then, we could justify stomach stapling every infant, because obesity is becoming more and more prevalent. Obesity is arguably a more serious health problem in the U.S. than STDs.

 

[Rafa]

By that same logic, then, we could justify stomach stapling every infant, because obesity is becoming more and more prevalent. Obesity is arguably a more serious health problem in the U.S. than STDs.

You're not using logic, you're using extreme examples to avoid acknowledging the proven benefits of a benign procedure.

 

[breck]

I will not hold the knife. I[ QUOTE]

So why won't you hold the knife if these are the wishes of your patient. It's not unreasonable to think that a patient who has been intimately involved with you for ~9 months would want you to be the one holding the knife. What exactly is the problem? You implied earlier that you would indeed hold the knife if there was a "medical reason". So why not do it to respect the wishes of the mother?? It's a huge copout to say my reasons are personal and don't make a difference to you people so I will not engage in the debate. This implies that there is no good reason and it is simply a personal opinion. You are absolutely entitled to that opinion, but the problem is that it will one day affect others. Don't you think you're going to instill a high degree of worry in the mothers who would like this procedure done when you tell them there is no way you will do that procedure. It begs the question WHY NOT????

 

[LifetimeDoc]

You're not using logic, you're using extreme examples to avoid acknowledging the proven benefits of a benign procedure.

Oh please, it's genital mutilation, or at best a misguided, medically unnecessary procedure. All these benefits of preventing HPV transmission, hygeine, psychological benefits are pure fantasy. Try backing it up with recent, hard scientific data. Major medical professional groups don't recommend the procedure, and outdated "beliefs" lead to the amputation and mutilation of the sex organs of male children. I hear many people upset about female "circumcison", but find many others that think it's fine to do to males. It's madness.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

You're not using logic, you're using extreme examples to avoid acknowledging the proven benefits of a benign procedure.

Sorry, but the study performed by that Spanish medical center that you posted on the first page of this thread hardly proves anything. BOTH confidence intervals are DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to including 0.

 

[Law2Doc]

By that same logic, then, we could justify stomach stapling every infant, because obesity is becoming more and more prevalent. Obesity is arguably a more serious health problem in the U.S. than STDs.

That's not the same at all. As was well cited above, uncircumcised people with poor hygeine run a risk of a variety of infections and can pass infections on to partners. By contrast, although obesity is a real problem, most people simply will not become obese regardless of having bad nutritional skills.

 

[Carmenita79]

Oh please, it's genital mutilation, or at best a misguided, medically unnecessary procedure. All these benefits of preventing HPV transmission, hygeine, psychological benefits are pure fantasy. Try backing it up with recent, hard scientific data. Major medical professional groups don't recommend the procedure, and outdated "beliefs" lead to the amputation and mutilation of the sex organs of male children. I hear many people upset about female "circumcison", but find many others that think it's fine to do to males. It's madness.

You have to admit the risks in male circ don't even come close to female circ.

 

[Rafa]

Oh please, it's genital mutilation, or at best a misguided, medically unnecessary procedure. All these benefits of preventing HPV transmission, hygeine, psychological benefits are pure fantasy. Try backing it up with recent, hard scientific data.

There are no less than two links to Pubmed on the first page of this thread, along with a 2006 link to a news article on HIV transmission. If you choose to ignore the science, that's your deal. But have the gonads (I assure you, no one's trying to remove those) to admit that there *is* evidence out there, and you're choosing to disregard it.