I am a GP practice owner. Go for OS?

[AlbinoPolarBear]

Isn’t ageism illegal in the US?

If you're caught red-handed, yes.

The collective eyebrow raises from the chairs and program directors must be filmed for the courts to believe you.

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[Splenda88]

Let me tell you my story.

Graduated 2012. Worked my ass off. Paid all my student loan. Have a practice and own a building. Saved up 3mil and I am making 900k/year working 4.5 days a week.

I am 37 and want to retire by 50 which I should be able to.

Ive always wanted to do OS but coming from a foreign country, my visa status and **** didnt really allow me to apply for any residency out of dental school. And ill be honest, I want to do OS for the income potential. I think once I graduate and work for corporate I can make 1.8M working 4.5 days? (Maybe more if I own a private practice?)

Is it worth selling my office and apply for OS?

By age 50, I should have 10M in todays money. If I quit now and sell my office, I would graduate residency 42 and work 8 years making 8.6M after tax which will put me in 11.6M zone.

Worth it? Sometimes I am up for challenge and sometimes I am scared of wasting my 30s in residency working like a dog. Am I too far in the game?

You should retire right now. If the 7-yr rule holds (your investment will double every 7 yrs), you will have 12 mil by 51-52 yr old.

It's amazing that people think they need 5+ mil to retire. Once I hit 2 mil plus a paid off home, I am out of the rat race.

 

[Splenda88]

totally agree.

there is not a significant lifestyle change between 900k and 1.8 mil where it would even be remotely worth going back to OS residency

Can a family of 4 making 900k/yr fly first class to Europe? That is ~40k... I dont think so. But it's doable if you make 1.8 mil.

 

[D1Bound]

Money would be the absolute wrong decision to pursue omfs.


Now, if one were to say that their motivation was because chicks dig omfs… that would be a different matter.

I have to push back on that a bit. I’ve heard several GPs talk about how they slightly envied the OMS paycheck. If OMS are making a million a year in some settings, how is it not worth it for the money? I understand someone shouldn’t do it if they absolutely hated orthognathics and anesthesia, etc, but if someone likes it and wants to make huge money I think that is an incentive.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I have to push back on that a bit. I’ve heard several GPs talk about how they slightly envied the OMS paycheck. If OMS are making a million a year in some settings, how is it not worth it for the money? I understand someone shouldn’t do it if they absolutely hated orthognathics and anesthesia, etc, but if someone likes it and wants to make huge money I think that is an incentive.

Right and wrong. If you are a traditional student- undergrad to dental to offs then yes it's worth it in the long run, but as a non-traditional- going back... I have to really question the decision.

The amount of money- opportunity cost- lost by attending a 4-6 year program in your late 30's early 40's will be enormous. I'm assuming as a traditional dentist at 30-40 you have student loans paid off, practice paid off, and mortgage paid off. You are at your peak income potential and can use that income to invest which will compound. We talking about 200-500k income yearly to invest with.

Putting all that on hold to take a 0 paycheck and then having to "establish yourself" as an OMFS later in life means a 4-6 year lost opportunity cost (in school) and another 1-3 or more years to get established/buy into a group before you make huge amounts of money. That's 5 to 9 years or more of lost opportunity cost where if you just stuck around your dental practice with no debt seems sorta dumb. But hey to each his own.

You should retire right now. If the 7-yr rule holds (your investment will double every 7 yrs), you will have 12 mil by 51-52 yr old.

It's amazing that people think they need 5+ mil to retire. Once I hit 2 mil plus a paid off home, I am out of the rate race.

This guy has the right mindset. I'm in the same boat. I'm out when I have a few million. I'll work in corporate dentistry just enough for health insurance and live life instead of living the rat race of dentistry. Cya on the tennis courts and Hawaii. I'm gonna enjoy life.

 

[D1Bound]

Right and wrong. If you are a traditional student- undergrad to dental to offs then yes it's worth it in the long run, but as a non-traditional- going back... I have to really question the decision.

The amount of money- opportunity cost- lost by attending a 4-6 year program in your late 30's early 40's will be enormous. I'm assuming as a traditional dentist at 30-40 you have student loans paid off, practice paid off, and mortgage paid off. You are at your peak income potential and can use that income to invest which will compound. We talking about 200-500k income yearly to invest with.

Putting all that on hold to take a 0 paycheck and then having to "establish yourself" as an OMFS later in life means a 4-6 year lost opportunity cost (in school) and another 1-3 or more years to get established/buy into a group before you make huge amounts of money. That's 5 to 9 years or more of lost opportunity cost where if you just stuck around your dental practice with no debt seems sorta dumb. But hey to each his own.

This guy has the right mindset. I'm in the same boat. I'm out when I have a few million. I'll work in corporate dentistry just enough for health insurance and live life instead of living the rat race of dentistry. Cya on the tennis courts and Hawaii. I'm gonna enjoy life.

Yea that’s what I meant, for a traditional student. Yea for this guy I’d retire in a heart beat if I were him

 

[Splenda88]

This guy has the right mindset. I'm in the same boat. I'm out when I have a few million. I'll work in corporate dentistry just enough for health insurance and live life instead of living the rat race of dentistry. Cya on the tennis courts and Hawaii. I'm gonna enjoy life.

John Goodman said it best.

 

[charlestweed]

The problem is it’s difficult to save $2 million if you only make $150-200k/year….working only 4 or less days a week. It’ll take much longer if you have $4-500k student loans + $4-500k home loan + other financial obligations to pay back. It’ll take longer if you have kids and want to give your kids a better lifestyle (ie a debt free college education) than your own when you were at their age. You’ll probably have to work beyond your 60th birthday to come up with that $2 million amount. It is probably enough for a single person with no kid…no girlfriend to impress….no one else to support.

According to Fidelity’s recommendation, try to save at least 1x of your salary by age 30, 3x by age 40, 6x by age 50, 8x by age 60, and 10x by age 67. If you want to retire way before your 60th birthday, I think you’ll need a lot more than $2 million. You have to take into account things like inflation, unexpected medical bills, unexpected house repair bills etc. I know YOLO and can’t take money with you when you die but what if God gives you good health and lets you to live beyond 90. My dad is 89. He’s still very active…..still driving. My father in law is 87 and he’s just quit driving last month.

 

[Splenda88]

The problem is it’s difficult to save $2 million if you only make $150-200k/year….working only 4 or less days a week. It’ll take much longer if you have $4-500k student loans + $4-500k home loan + other financial obligations to pay back. It’ll take longer if you have kids and want to give your kids a better lifestyle (ie a debt free college education) than your own when you were at their age. You’ll probably have to work beyond your 60th birthday to come up with that $2 million amount. It is probably enough for a single person with no kid…no girlfriend to impress….no one else to support.

According to Fidelity’s recommendation, try to save at least 1x of your salary by age 30, 3x by age 40, 6x by age 50, 8x by age 60, and 10x by age 67. If you want to retire way before your 60th birthday, I think you’ll need a lot more than $2 million. You have to take into account things like inflation, unexpected medical bills, unexpected house repair bills etc. I know YOLO and can’t take money with you when you die but what if God gives you good health and lets you to live beyond 90. My dad is 89. He’s still very active…..still driving. My father in law is 87 and he’s just quit driving last month.

You know if you max out your 401k, IRA and HSA (total ~29k/yr) and invest it for 20 yrs in the S&P500, you will have 1.7 mil without doing any else. If you do that 30 yrs, it will be 5 mil.

I don't buy that people can't retire (or semi retire) in their 40s with 2 mil and a paid off home....

All OP has to do is to work hard for the next 5 yrs to earn 300k and live like the average middle class individual (like he was making 50k/yr) and then cut down his work days to 2 days (16-20 hrs/wk). Most jobs are ok when you have to be there for only 2 days/wk... That happened to me. I worked a job that I hate for almost 8 yrs.

The good thing about medicine and dentistry is that you can make 100k+/yr working only 16-20 hrs/wk.

It's a privilege if one can pay college for their kids. I did 2 yrs of undergrad at a CC and 2 yrs at state university, and still become a physician making 350-400k/yr. One of my best friends did the same and is doing extremely well as a radiation oncologist.

 

[charlestweed]

You know if you max out your 401k, IRA and HSA (total ~29k/yr) and invest it for 20 yrs in the S&P500, you will have 1.7 mil without doing any else. If you do that 30 yrs, it will be 5 mil.

I don't buy that people can't retire (or semi retire) in their 40s with 2 mil and a paid off home....

All OP has to do is to work hard for the next 5 yrs to earn 300k and live like the average middle class individual (like he was making 50k/yr) and then cut down his work days to 2 days (16-20 hrs/wk). Most jobs are ok when you have to be there for only 2 days/wk... That happened to me. I worked a job that I hate for almost 8 yrs.

The good thing about medicine and dentistry is that you can make 100k+/yr working only 16-20 hrs/wk.

It's a privilege if one can pay college for their kids. I did 2 yrs of undergrad at a CC and 2 yrs at state university, and still become a physician making 350-400k/yr. One of my best friends did the same and is doing extremely well as a radiation oncologist.

Yes, I’ve maxed out my 401k every year since age 29…I am 51 now. I don’t invest in stock because I don’t know much about it. I only invested in rental properties and put money in high yield CDs. I am glad I did this early enough when home prices were about 1/3 as much as they are today.

Even with the house fully paid off, my monthly expense is still around $17k a month. Property tax is around $1900/month ($23k/year), $8-900 for utility bills, $1000 for HOA/pool/landsdcape maintenances, $1500 for health insurance, $2500 for food/dinning out, $2000 for home/life/car/disability insurances, 1500 for a leased BMW, $3k/month for my son’s undergrad at UCLA, $4500 for 401k etc. Once you have lived a nice “doctor” lifestyle for many years since graduation, it’s hard to give it up and have to back to live like an average middle class person when you retire. I’ll need a lot more than $2 million before I can comfortably close up shop and retire. It’s boring to retire so early…..staying home doing nothing in your mid 40s but that’s another topic of discussion.

Yeah, it is a privilege that I can pay for my kids' education. I guess you haven’t had any kid yet. Wait until you have one, I think you will change your mind. We, older generation, have taken so much away from our kids with all these excessive spendings and borrowings. The national debt keeps rising. The social security money will probably be gone when they retire. Giving my kids a debt free education is the least I can do for them. Inflation rate is crazily high. When my son is ready to buy his first house, his first starter home will probably cost around $1.5 million….not $3-400k like when I bought my first house. Don’t forget that you’ll have to pay much higher property tax (and it will be a fixed expense that you will be stuck with as long as you own a house) with a much higher home price. Don’t get married and don’t have kid….and you’ll be “borderline” fine with your $2million saving.

 

[Splenda88]

Yes, I’ve maxed out my 401k every year since age 29…I am 51 now. I don’t invest in stock because I don’t know much about it. I only invested in rental properties and put money in high yield CDs. I am glad I did this early enough when home prices were about 1/3 as much as they are today.

Even with the house fully paid off, my monthly expense is still around $17k a month. Property tax is around $1900/month ($23k/year), $8-900 for utility bills, $1000 for HOA/pool/landsdcape maintenances, $1500 for health insurance, $2500 for food/dinning out, $2000 for home/life/car/disability insurances, 1500 for a leased BMW, $3k/month for my son’s undergrad at UCLA, $4500 for 401k etc. Once you have lived a nice “doctor” lifestyle for many years since graduation, it’s hard to give it up and have to back to live like an average middle class person when you retire. I’ll need a lot more than $2 million before I can comfortably close up shop and retire. It’s boring to retire so early…..staying home doing nothing in your mid 40s but that’s another topic of discussion.

Yeah, it is a privilege that I can pay for my kids' education. I guess you haven’t had any kid yet. Wait until you have one, I think you will change your mind. We, older generation, have taken so much away from our kids with all these excessive spendings and borrowings. The national debt keeps rising. The social security money will probably be gone when they retire. Giving my kids a debt free education is the least I can do for them. Inflation rate is crazily high. When my son is ready to buy his first house, his first starter home will probably cost around $1.5 million….not $3-400k like when I bought my first house. Don’t forget that you’ll have to pay much higher property tax (and it will be a fixed expense that you will be stuck with as long as you own a house) with a much higher home price. Don’t get married and don’t have kid….and you’ll be “borderline” fine with your $2million saving.

I have 2 kids. You have an expensive lifestyle. You should leave California.

 

[Thehighwind87]

The problem is it’s difficult to save $2 million if you only make $150-200k/year….working only 4 or less days a week. It’ll take much longer if you have $4-500k student loans + $4-500k home loan + other financial obligations to pay back. It’ll take longer if you have kids and want to give your kids a better lifestyle (ie a debt free college education) than your own when you were at their age. You’ll probably have to work beyond your 60th birthday to come up with that $2 million amount. It is probably enough for a single person with no kid…no girlfriend to impress….no one else to support.

According to Fidelity’s recommendation, try to save at least 1x of your salary by age 30, 3x by age 40, 6x by age 50, 8x by age 60, and 10x by age 67. If you want to retire way before your 60th birthday, I think you’ll need a lot more than $2 million. You have to take into account things like inflation, unexpected medical bills, unexpected house repair bills etc. I know YOLO and can’t take money with you when you die but what if God gives you good health and lets you to live beyond 90. My dad is 89. He’s still very active…..still driving. My father in law is 87 and he’s just quit driving last month.

You pretty much summed up the reason why dentistry ain't worth it now-a-days.

Yes, I’ve maxed out my 401k every year since age 29…I am 51 now. I don’t invest in stock because I don’t know much about it. I only invested in rental properties and put money in high yield CDs. I am glad I did this early enough when home prices were about 1/3 as much as they are today.

Even with the house fully paid off, my monthly expense is still around $17k a month. Property tax is around $1900/month ($23k/year), $8-900 for utility bills, $1000 for HOA/pool/landsdcape maintenances, $1500 for health insurance, $2500 for food/dinning out, $2000 for home/life/car/disability insurances, 1500 for a leased BMW, $3k/month for my son’s undergrad at UCLA, $4500 for 401k etc. Once you have lived a nice “doctor” lifestyle for many years since graduation, it’s hard to give it up and have to back to live like an average middle class person when you retire. I’ll need a lot more than $2 million before I can comfortably close up shop and retire. It’s boring to retire so early…..staying home doing nothing in your mid 40s but that’s another topic of discussion.

Yeah, it is a privilege that I can pay for my kids' education. I guess you haven’t had any kid yet. Wait until you have one, I think you will change your mind. We, older generation, have taken so much away from our kids with all these excessive spendings and borrowings. The national debt keeps rising. The social security money will probably be gone when they retire. Giving my kids a debt free education is the least I can do for them. Inflation rate is crazily high. When my son is ready to buy his first house, his first starter home will probably cost around $1.5 million….not $3-400k like when I bought my first house. Don’t forget that you’ll have to pay much higher property tax (and it will be a fixed expense that you will be stuck with as long as you own a house) with a much higher home price. Don’t get married and don’t have kid….and you’ll be “borderline” fine with your $2million saving.

Wow, I'm glad I left california. 17k monthly expense? Good lord, that's insane.

 

[Lurker4561]

You know if you max out your 401k, IRA and HSA (total ~29k/yr) and invest it for 20 yrs in the S&P500, you will have 1.7 mil without doing any else. If you do that 30 yrs, it will be 5 mil.

I don't buy that people can't retire (or semi retire) in their 40s with 2 mil and a paid off home....

All OP has to do is to work hard for the next 5 yrs to earn 300k and live like the average middle class individual (like he was making 50k/yr) and then cut down his work days to 2 days (16-20 hrs/wk). Most jobs are ok when you have to be there for only 2 days/wk... That happened to me. I worked a job that I hate for almost 8 yrs.

The good thing about medicine and dentistry is that you can make 100k+/yr working only 16-20 hrs/wk.

It's a privilege if one can pay college for their kids. I did 2 yrs of undergrad at a CC and 2 yrs at state university, and still become a physician making 350-400k/yr. One of my best friends did the same and is doing extremely well as a radiation oncologist.

That's assuming >10% annualized returns and not adjusting for inflation. The returns you should expect are less than that. Adjusted for CPI with dividend reinvestment the average over a 20 year period is closer to 6.5%, which would leave you with closer to a million over 20 yrs, and 2.5mm over 30 years. Maybe most can retire with 2 million and a fully paid off house by 45, but that's the exception rather than the rule in a profession where most take large educational debt and only start working in their early 30s.

 

[Splenda88]

That's assuming >10% annualized returns and not adjusting for inflation. The returns you should expect are less than that. Adjusted for CPI with dividend reinvestment the average over a 20 year period is closer to 6.5%, which would leave you with closer to a million over 20 yrs, and 2.5mm over 30 years. Maybe most can retire with 2 million and a fully paid off house by 45, but that's the exception rather than the rule in a profession where most take large educational debt and only start working in their early 30s.

S&P 500 Average Return and Historical Performance

See the historical performance of the S&P 500 Index. Learn more about the factors that affect the S&P 500 average return.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Lurker4561]

S&P 500 Average Return and Historical Performance

See the historical performance of the S&P 500 Index. Learn more about the factors that affect the S&P 500 average return.

www.investopedia.com

Yes, between 1928 and the end of 2021 it was 11.82% with dividend reinvestment. Again, that's not inflation adjusted, and that's not the average return of 10,20, or 30 year periods. The article even says that 11.8% figure inflation adjusted is 8.5%, and goes on to say that that's not including the fact that many analysts believe the Cpi heavily understates inflation. Anyway the minutiae isn't relevant, the point is you should temper your expectations from almost 12% real returns on your passive investments. It's takes more than living average and buying the S and P to retire at around 45, especially as a dentist and even more so with a family.

 

[charlestweed]

I have 2 kids. You have an expensive lifestyle. You should leave California.

It’s hard to leave CA and live far away from our family. My nephew is currently a 4th student at an 8-yr BS/MD program in the east coast. He is supposed to start his med school there this coming Fall. But he also applied to several med schools in CA with the hope that he could move back home. And last week, he received the good news from USC med school. His mom (my sister) will gladly pay much higher tuition at USC. In fact, she was so excited about the news of her son going back home that she placed an order on a Tesla model 3 to reward him. This son of my sister is the most expensive one. She originally planned to save $$$ for all of her 3 kids to go to med/dent schools but her other 2 kids are pursuing engineering. So now she has plenty of extra cash. That’s the reward that my sister earns for her hard work and sacrifice during her younger years. She has just turned 50 and is semi-retiring. Now she wishes that one of her kids will marry a dentist so that person can take over her dental practice.

If you will live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. Dave Ramsey.

 

[charlestweed]

You pretty much summed up the reason why dentistry ain't worth it now-a-days.

No, it’s not worth it if you have the YOLO mentality….don’t put a huge chunk of your income (15-20%) away for retirement….. and only work 4 or less days a week. Even for many older dentists like us, who didn’t have a lot of student loan debt, we didn’t work 4 days/wk. Many of us had worked on the weekends. What make today new grads, who have to pay 10X more in tuition, think that they can get away with working only 4 days/week?

Wow, I'm glad I left california. 17k monthly expense? Good lord, that's insane.

Everything is a lot more expensive now because of inflation. I think it’s only slightly cheaper to live in other states. States that have zero income tax usually charge their citizens much higher property taxes. CA’s property tax is only around 1.2 % of the home value. When you live in one of the states, that doesn’t have anything to entertain your family, you tend spend more money to travel more often to relieve the boredom. Your heating and cooling bills are also higher due to the extreme weather condition in other states. After you pay off your house, there are still a lot of other fixed monthly expenses that you will have to worry about.

Keep in mind that if you decide to retire early.....ie way earlier than 65, you won't be qualifed for a cheap healthcare plan (medicare)....you will have to continue to pay at least $1500 a month health insurance (for a family of 4) and the premium goes up every year because you are getting older. You are too young to collect the social security benefit and if you take out your 401k early, you will have to pay a penalty.

 

[Splenda88]

I guess we rich people forget that the median household income is < 80/yr.

 

[Splenda88]

Yes, between 1928 and the end of 2021 it was 11.82% with dividend reinvestment. Again, that's not inflation adjusted, and that's not the average return of 10,20, or 30 year periods. The article even says that 11.8% figure inflation adjusted is 8.5%, and goes on to say that that's not including the fact that many analysts believe the Cpi heavily understates inflation. Anyway the minutiae isn't relevant, the point is you should temper your expectations from almost 12% real returns on your passive investments. It's takes more than living average and buying the S and P to retire at around 45, especially as a dentist and even more so with a family.

I am in year 2 in my career as a hospitalist. I got into medicine late. I will get out in the rat race in another 10 yrs with my salary of 350-400k/yr.

Again, I am someone who doesn't spend a lot of money on the big ticket items (housing, car etc...). Our mortgage is < $1700 and we have no car payment (still driving a 2008/2009 cars). Once I accumulate 2 mil with a paid off home, I will work ~8 days/month (150-175k/yr).

 

[charlestweed]

I am in year 2 in my career as a hospitalist. I got into medicine late. I will get out in the rat race in another 10 yrs with my salary of 350-400k/yr.

Again, I am someone who doesn't spend a lot of money on the big ticket items (housing, car etc...). Our mortgage is < $1700 and we no car payment (still driving a 2008/2009 cars). Once I accumulate 2 mil with a paid off home, I will work ~8 days/wk (150-175k/yr).

With such modest spending budget, I think you will be fine. It’s hard for many people who earn that kind of annual income to live like that. Most would go out and buy nice things for themselves, especially after many years of hard work and sacrifice (long schooling, 3 years of low paid resident salary). That’s why many of the physician friends at my age still have to continue to work.

You meant working 8 days/month? I didn’t know you have a choice to work very few days like that as a hospitalist. I thought most hospitals require you to work more hours because lives have to be saved. I’ve just spoken to my younger brother, who is a GI doc. He said that it’s hard to work less as a doctor because you still have to work outside of the workplace…you still have to take calls. I guess different medical specialties have different requirements. In the end, my brother concluded that being a doctor is ok but make sure that you don’t marry another doctor….because you won’t have time for each other and for your kids.

 

[Splenda88]

With such modest spending budget, I think you will be fine. It’s hard for many people who earn that kind of annual income to live like that. Most would go out and buy nice things for themselves, especially after many years of hard work and sacrifice (long schooling, 3 years of low paid resident salary). That’s why many of the physician friends at my age still have to continue to work.

You meant working 8 days/month? I didn’t know you have a choice to work very few days like that as a hospitalist. I thought most hospitals require you to work more hours because lives have to be saved. I’ve just spoken to my younger brother, who is a GI doc. He said that it’s hard to work less as a doctor because you still have to work outside of the workplace…you still have to take calls. I guess different medical specialties have different requirements. In the end, my brother concluded that being a doctor is ok but make sure that you don’t marry another doctor….because you won’t have time for each other and for your kids.

I meant to write 8 days/month...

I still spend some money traveling. Our travel budget for this yr is 16-18k.

 

[Lurker4561]

I am in year 2 in my career as a hospitalist. I got into medicine late. I will get out in the rat race in another 10 yrs with my salary of 350-400k/yr.

Again, I am someone who doesn't spend a lot of money on the big ticket items (housing, car etc...). Our mortgage is < $1700 and we have no car payment (still driving a 2008/2009 cars). Once I accumulate 2 mil with a paid off home, I will work ~8 days/month (150-175k/yr).

I hope it will happen and you may very well in fact do it. All I'm saying is it's easy to make the numbers work if you assume very high returns and very low expenses, but it doesn't usually happen. People have different expenses and different financial goals, some guy has 4 kids and alimony to pay, another guy just wants to be worth 10mm. Aside from different needs or goals, there are a million factors outside of our control that would interrupt plans to retire young. There have been 10 year stretches where the S and P hasn't even kept up with CPI, then, god forbid, there is the chance of unforeseen health problems, sudden expenses, divorce, etc.

 

[Splenda88]

I hope it will happen and you may very well in fact do it. All I'm saying is it's easy to make the numbers work if you assume very high returns and very low expenses, but it doesn't usually happen. People have different expenses and different financial goals, some guy has 4 kids and alimony to pay, another guy just wants to be worth 10mm. Aside from different needs or goals, there are a million factors outside of our control that would interrupt plans to retire young. There have been 10 year stretches where the S and P hasn't even kept up with CPI, then, god forbid, there is the chance of unforeseen health problems, sudden expenses, divorce, etc.

I certainly agree with you. Things can change and my plan might blow up into pieces. I just don't get why people think 2 mil + a paid off home is not enough for someone to retire when one can cut you spending and live using the 4% rule.

My guess is 95% of people who go into retirement don't have that kind of money.

I just think people in the top 5% (especially doctors and dentists) seem to forget that the median household income in the US is < 80k...

I will be into my 50s when I semi retire since I entered medicine late. I will continue to work part time because I like medicine.

 

[charlestweed]

I certainly agree with you. Things can change and my plan might blow up into pieces. I just don't get why people think 2 mil + a paid off home is not enough for someone to retire when one can cut you spending and live using the 4% rule.

My guess is 95% of people who go into retirement don't have that kind of money.

I just think people in the top 5% (especially doctors and dentists) seem to forget that the median household income in the US is < 80k...

I will be into my 50s when I semi retire since I entered medicine late. I will continue to work part time because I like medicine.

Most don’t retire early like what you plan to do. They retire at 65 or older and they collect the social security benefit, which is still available for them + 401k that they have contributed since they were in their early 20s. Many retire poor and you just don’t know about their financial problems. My parents would be in big financial trouble if they didn’t have me and my 2 siblings. They came to the US when they were in their early 50s and hadn't worked long enough to save enough for their retirements. But without their hard work and sacrifice, we wouldn’t be where we are now.

 

[Splenda88]

Most don’t retire early like what you plan to do. They retire at 65 or older and they collect the social security benefit, which is still available for them + 401k that they have contributed since they were in their early 20s. Many retire poor and you just don’t know about their financial problems. My parents would be in big financial trouble if they didn’t have me and my 2 siblings. They came to the US when they were in their early 50s and hadn't worked long enough to save enough for their retirements. But without their hard work and sacrifice, we wouldn’t be where we are now.

Because most don't have 2 mil plus a paid off home...

Out of curiosity, how much $$$ you think someone needs to retire in an average COL area (eg., San Antonio, Jacksonville, Roanoke) and live middle class lifestyle?

 

[Lurker4561]

Because most don't have 2 mil plus a paid off home...

Out of curiosity, how much $$$ you think someone needs to retire in an average COL area (eg., San Antonia, Jacksonville, Roanoke) and live middle class lifestyle?

I know the reply wasn't to me, but the age at retirement is also relevant not just the figure. Retiring with 2mm and a paid off house at 55 is very different than at 45. First the money has to last and spread out over 10 fewer years. At 55 you're also likely to be further away from supporting kids etc. Anyway retiring at 55 with those financials in say Jacksonville is probably good for a middle class lifestyle and financial security. You will most likely die penniless though, and will have to wait 10 years for ssi.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I think at the end of the day there has to be a balance- and that balance can only be answered by you.

I, for one, want a middle class lifestyle working 3 days a week for healthcare semi retired at 45 and enjoying life.

The older you get the more you realize the one thing you can never get back no matter how much money you have is: time. Time to travel, time to play sports, time to live life and spend time with family. If you budget well you can make 2-4 whatever million work. Sitting hunched over doing a class 2 mod for some reduced PPO fee at 55 cuz you didn’t budget your lifestyle correctly paying off student loans sounds like a nightmare. No thanks. I’m out of the rat race when I have enough saved up to live frugally and enjoy life.

That’s just me. Take a good look around. No one ever wished at the end they worked more, they prob wished they worked less and enjoyed the younger days where they could be more active. And if there is some dentist out there that said “man I wished I did more class 2”s on number #2 distal buccal” then they got some serious issues.

 

[Splenda88]

I know the reply wasn't to me, but the age at retirement is also relevant not just the figure. Retiring with 2mm and a paid off house at 55 is very different than at 45. First the money has to last and spread out over 10 fewer years. At 55 you're also likely to be further away from supporting kids etc. Anyway retiring at 55 with those financials in say Jacksonville is probably good for a middle class lifestyle and financial security. You will most likely die penniless though, and will have to wait 10 years for ssi.

Hmmm. You know if you withdraw 3-4% every year, there is a 98%+ you will not ran out of $$$.

I am going to ask my cousin how he did it then. Retired in 2009-2010 after the housing market crash. Bought 3 properties cash that cost ~370k after all renovation. He lives in one of the properties and rented 2. The family of 3 has been doing well living on 3k/month (probably more now since he increased the rent) . Gotta ask him he pulled that off. The 3 places worth > 1 mil now. This is in south FL; not the cheapest place to live in the US.

 

[Lurker4561]

I am really perplexed that people think once can't have a regular middle class lifestyle with 2 mil PLUS a paid off home... Housing (mortgage) is usually 30-35% of most people's expenses.

Without generating income? I think you'd agree you cant retire at 35 with that. Obviously I'm assuming we are talking about financially secure for a middle class lifestyle. If we are talking about retiring on the precipice or poor you can do that at any age. The age is relevant and your situation is relevant. 2 million is a very good amount of money and more than most people have. But in today's day and age it's not as much as it sounds, and without earning income you can see it get eaten away very quickly. Everything is situational, if you're a 45 year old New Yorker (as in city) with 3 kids in college you're as far away from retiring as a resident is. If you're a 65 year old Floridian with independent kids you're doing great to retire on an even above average lifestyle.

 

[Thehighwind87]

Sams

Without generating income? I think you'd agree you cant retire at 35 with that. Obviously I'm assuming we are talking about financially secure for a middle class lifestyle. If we are talking about retiring on the precipice or poor you can do that at any age. The age is relevant and your situation is relevant. 2 million is a very good amount of money and more than most people have. But in today's day and age it's not as much as it sounds, and without earning income you can see it get eaten away very quickly. Everything is situational, if you're a 45 year old New Yorker (as in city) with 3 kids in college you're as far away from retiring as a resident is. If you're a 65 year old Floridian with independent kids you're doing great to retire on an even above average lifestyle.

Def rings true. If I was in this position I would take a job with enough hours to cover healthcare, work the bare minimum and enjoy life. Life is much different when you don’t feel like you need work to pay the bills cuz you are in debt. With no debt and working to sustain your personal happiness lifestyle, it will def be enjoyable.

 

[Splenda88]

Without generating income? I think you'd agree you cant retire at 35 with that. Obviously I'm assuming we are talking about financially secure for a middle class lifestyle. If we are talking about retiring on the precipice or poor you can do that at any age. The age is relevant and your situation is relevant. 2 million is a very good amount of money and more than most people have. But in today's day and age it's not as much as it sounds, and without earning income you can see it get eaten away very quickly. Everything is situational, if you're a 45 year old New Yorker (as in city) with 3 kids in college you're as far away from retiring as a resident is. If you're a 65 year old Floridian with independent kids you're doing great to retire on an even above average lifestyle.

I can make it at work if it's only me and my spouse (no kids to support). Obviously, I won't be living in a HCOL area.

 

[Lurker4561]

I can make it at work if it's only me and my spouse (no kids to support). Obviously, I won't be living in a HCOL area.

I'm saying its situational, and you obviously know your situation and what you need. I was just responding the question about if people really think 2 isn't enough.

 

[Lurker4561]

Hmmm. You know if you withdraw 3-4% every year, there is a 98%+ you will not ran out of $$$.

I am going to ask my cousin how he did it then. Retired in 2009-2010 after the housing market crash. Bought 3 properties cash that cost ~370k after all renovation. He lives in one of the properties and rented 2. The family of 3 has been doing well living on 3k/month (probably more now since he increased the rent) . Gotta ask him he pulled that off. The 3 places worth > 1 mil now. This is in south FL; not the cheapest place to live in the US.

I'm not saying people haven't. However I know plenty of examples of people who thought they had more than they had and went broke. Personally, I'd caution about those sort of calculations and being so sure of those outcomes. 3-4% pre tax is also not enough at 55 for what I'd consider a middle class lifestyle, maybe if all the kids are out of the house it would cover. Anyway, like I said, it depends on your financial goals and expenses. If you want to leave an inheritance, even a modest one, or leave to charity it won't be enough. Many people don't care about that type of stuff, in which case it's a different equation. Some docs feel a compulsion to live a high life, other's don't care about BMW's or boat trips, whatever floats your boat.

 

[yappy]

I think at the end of the day there has to be a balance- and that balance can only be answered by you.

I, for one, want a middle class lifestyle working 3 days a week for healthcare semi retired at 45 and enjoying life.

The older you get the more you realize the one thing you can never get back no matter how much money you have is: time. Time to travel, time to play sports, time to live life and spend time with family. If you budget well you can make 2-4 whatever million work. Sitting hunched over doing a class 2 mod for some reduced PPO fee at 55 cuz you didn’t budget your lifestyle correctly paying off student loans sounds like a nightmare. No thanks. I’m out of the rat race when I have enough saved up to live frugally and enjoy life.

That’s just me. Take a good look around. No one ever wished at the end they worked more, they prob wished they worked less and enjoyed the younger days where they could be more active. And if there is some dentist out there that said “man I wished I did more class 2”s on number #2 distal buccal” then they got some serious issues.

I see it differently. The most interesting, productive, thing most people do is their work. Work creates value in the world, challenges you, and connects you to people you would otherwise never meet. It has built our modern society and I think it’s a privilege to be apart of it.
I’ve met people that regret not accomplishing more professionally in their life too. It’s usually not an issue of money. However, everyone is different. There are people sitting on large fortunes working everyday towards their next professional goal, and there are others who lean FIRE asap. I think the most important thing is to figure out who you are and plan accordingly.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I see it differently. The most interesting, productive, thing most people do is their work. Work creates value in the world, challenges, and connects you to people you would otherwise never meet. It has built our modern society and I think it’s a privilege to be apart of it.
I’ve met people that regret not accomplishing more professionally in their life too. It’s usually not an issue of money. However, everyone is different. There are people sitting on large fortunes working everyday towards their next professional goal, and there are others who lean FIRE asap. I think the most important thing is to figure out who you are and plan accordingly.

I guess you make sense to. Building a dental empire, making more money, expanding a practice. That bring them joy to.

Doing a class 2 at 55 for me would be a nightmare. Enjoying the beach, playing tennis, and hanging out with the kids/grandkids would be my end goal.

But I guess its like you say- to each his own.

 

[charlestweed]

I think at the end of the day there has to be a balance- and that balance can only be answered by you.

I, for one, want a middle class lifestyle working 3 days a week for healthcare semi retired at 45 and enjoying life.

The older you get the more you realize the one thing you can never get back no matter how much money you have is: time. Time to travel, time to play sports, time to live life and spend time with family. If you budget well you can make 2-4 whatever million work. Sitting hunched over doing a class 2 mod for some reduced PPO fee at 55 cuz you didn’t budget your lifestyle correctly paying off student loans sounds like a nightmare. No thanks. I’m out of the rat race when I have enough saved up to live frugally and enjoy life.

That’s just me. Take a good look around. No one ever wished at the end they worked more, they prob wished they worked less and enjoyed the younger days where they could be more active. And if there is some dentist out there that said “man I wished I did more class 2”s on number #2 distal buccal” then they got some serious issues.

With hard work, I am pretty sure you will reach your goal when you turn 45. Many of my dentist friends, who are around my age, are enjoying their life now. My sister, a general dentist who has just turned 50, is working 3-4 days a week and only sees 4-5 patients in a 3-4 hr work day with only 1 assistant. She has been on this semi-retire mode since she was in her early 40s. There were days that she didn’t have any patient on her book….no problem…no stress….she just stayed home. Currently, I work 19 days a month and only work 3 hours a day when I am at my own office (10 days/month).

As you get older, you’ll find that you’ll have less time….and the time goes by very quickly. That’s because you are busy with work while trying to take care of your family/kids at the same time. This is why I’ve always told the young predents and ortho residents who came to shadow at my office that they should work as hard as they can right after they graduate. When a new grad is young, single and has no kids, he/she has plenty of time and energy to work long hours. My sister used to work 7 days a week when she first started her new practice in her early 30s (4 days for the corp and 3 days at her own office). I used to work 6 days/wk when I was in my early 30s…when my daughter was only 1 yo. And now we get to enjoy our semi-retie life in our 50s. Dentistry is still a great profession if you manage your time right…and know how to keep the overhead as low as possible.

 

[DDS9994]

I can make it at work if it's only me and my spouse (no kids to support). Obviously, I won't be living in a HCOL area.

I'm not saying people haven't. However I know plenty of examples of people who thought they had more than they had and went broke. Personally, I'd caution about those sort of calculations and being so sure of those outcomes. 3-4% pre tax is also not enough at 55 for what I'd consider a middle class lifestyle, maybe if all the kids are out of the house it would cover. Anyway, like I said, it depends on your financial goals and expenses. If you want to leave an inheritance, even a modest one, or leave to charity it won't be enough. Many people don't care about that type of stuff, in which case it's a different equation. Some docs feel a compulsion to live a high life, other's don't care about BMW's or boat trips, whatever floats your boat.

I agree, 2 million at 45. even if you use the safe WD of 4%, yu are talking about 80K a year, thats it, that is middle class living, and you dfeinitley will not have a doctors lifestyle on that, it is possible, but I dont think most would go for it. You have to make it to 62 just to get early ss, and 65 for medicare, so you will be paying full freight for heath care which can set you back a good 800 plus a month with some really high deductible plans.

 

[charlestweed]

I agree, 2 million at 45. even if you use the safe WD of 4%, yu are talking about 80K a year, thats it, that is middle class living, and you dfeinitley will not have a doctors lifestyle on that, it is possible, but I dont think most would go for it. You have to make it to 62 just to get early ss, and 65 for medicare, so you will be paying full freight for heath care which can set you back a good 800 plus a month with some really high deductible plans.

$80k a year is not much at all….no matter where you live. Splenda88, you have to say good bye to your $16-18k trip that you enjoy every year. A $20-25k roof replacement on your paid off house would be a huge disaster for your family. When you quit your F/T hospitalist job, you will lose your health benefit. You will have to buy your own health insurance…that’ll set you back at least another $1k per month. When you have zero income and only rely on the interest payments from your investment to live, every little expense feels so big. I don’t know about you but for me, I don’t want to live with this kind of uncertainty ….. in fear. It’s more stressful living like this than working.

 

[Thehighwind87]

$80k a year is not much at all….no matter where you live. Splenda88, you can say good bye to your $16-18k trip that you enjoy every year. A $20-25k roof replacement on your paid off house would be a huge disaster for your family. When you quit your F/T hospitalist job, you will lose your health benefit. You will have to buy your own health insurance…that’ll set you back at least another $1k per month. When you have zero income and only rely on the interest payments from your investment to live, every little expense feels so big. I don’t know about you but for me, I don’t want to live with this kind of uncertainty ….. in fear. It’s more stressful living like this than working.

I think it's reasonable to semi-retire at this age with 2 million in the bank working just enough for health insurance. If one were to work 3x a week, it would cover enough to "replenish" your savings, have health insurance, keep one-self busy enough to go out on vacations.

You could take it to another level and go live in another country. I talked to my accountant about this and he says thailand singapore is doable with a decent amount in savings along with the american dollar.

It's funny that we are having this kind of conversation tho. I don't know any dentists that are making the below 50 semi-retire lifestyle work out. Most are bloated with huge loans that make them have to work into their late 50s.

I think more reasonable is 55 and "survive" part time working for healthcare til 65 before medicare/ss kicks in. 45 to 65 is a long ways away.

 

[charlestweed]

I think it's reasonable to semi-retire at this age with 2 million in the bank working just enough for health insurance. If one were to work 3x a week, it would cover enough to "replenish" your savings, have health insurance, keep one-self busy enough to go out on vacations.

You sure can semi-retire with such saving amount but you can’t completely quit working. That’s what many of us, 50+ yo dentists, are doing right now. I work 19 days/month but I can easily work 5-6 days/month if I want to..... but I just don’t have any plan to entertain myself for having 24-25 days off in a month. As Yappy pointed out earlier, work gives people satisfaction. I have 3 rental properties that were 100% paid off and they currently generate $6-7k per month (net....after deducting all the expenses, insurances and property taxes) in passive income. And yet, I am still not fully confident that I can quit working completely. Last year, we lost $24k in rental income and it took us almost a year to evict the non-paying tenant. The guy applied for the Covid rent relief and we couldn’t evict him.

You could take it to another level and go live in another country. I talked to my accountant about this and he says thailand singapore is doable with a decent amount in savings along with the american dollar.

Nah, no other countries can beat America when it comes to retirement. As you get older, your health should be your #1 priority. And America has the best healthcare system in world (if you have money). Issues like appendicitis, chest pain can be quickly diagnosed and taken care of.

 

[Splenda88]

$80k a year is not much at all….no matter where you live. Splenda88, you have to say good bye to your $16-18k trip that you enjoy every year. A $20-25k roof replacement on your paid off house would be a huge disaster for your family. When you quit your F/T hospitalist job, you will lose your health benefit. You will have to buy your own health insurance…that’ll set you back at least another $1k per month. When you have zero income and only rely on the interest payments from your investment to live, every little expense feels so big. I don’t know about you but for me, I don’t want to live with this kind of uncertainty ….. in fear. It’s more stressful living like this than working.

Agree it's not much but it is not an insignificant amount if your house is paid off.

Anyway, when I think about it, I am glad I did medicine. Not too many careers out there that one can easily find a job and make 6-figure salary while working PT.

 

[charlestweed]

Agree it's not much but it is not an insignificant amount if your house is paid off.

Anyway, when I think about it, I am glad I did medicine. Not too many careers out there that one can easily find a job and make 6-figure salary while working PT.

You should be very proud of your accomplishments. The pathway to become a doctor is a long painful one. I hope my son, who is a first year undergrad student, will do well enough for med school. I am envious of my sister. Her son will start med school at USC this coming Fall.

 

[Splenda88]

You should be very proud of your accomplishments. The pathway to become a doctor is a long painful one. I hope my son, who is a first year undergrad student, will do well enough for med school. I am envious of my sister. Her son will start med school at USC this coming Fall.

Thanks for the compliment.

Now thinking about it makes realize how long and difficult the journey was.

I immigrated to the US when I was 20 and only knew a few English words. I spent a whole year attending an adult education school that taught English to immigrants so I could learn English... while I was working FT as a dishwasher. The first 1-2 months, my boss used one of my countrymen as a translator when he wanted to communicate with me. Lol. These were great days!

It just dawn on me (after reading your above post) that I was able to get into a US MD school without resorting going to a Caribbean school (or abroad) to become a MD.

 

[charlestweed]

Thanks for the compliment.

Now thinking about it makes realize how long and difficult the journey was.

I immigrated to the US when I was 20 and only knew a few English words. I spent a whole year attending an adult education school that taught English to immigrants so I could learn English... while I was working FT as a dishwasher. The first 1-2 months, my boss used one of my countrymen as a translator when he wanted to communicate with me. Lol. These were great days!

It just dawn on me (after reading your above post) that I was able to get into a US MD school without resorting going to a Caribbean school (or abroad) to become a MD.

I remember when I worked at Disneyland as a busboy, I also got a very poor mark on the employee’s evaluation due to my poor communication skill. I still thank Disneyland because that’s where I learned to speak English.

Your impressive story is very similar to my brother-in-law’s. He also came to the US at 20. He took pre requisite classes at a community college and that’s where he met my sister. He’s the dad of the future USC med student, whom I mentioned above. My brother in law only got one interview from UC Davis med school and they put him on a waitlist. While he studied to re-take the MCAT and planned to reapply, UC Davis called him and offered the acceptance. He later did his internal medicine residency at Loma Linda and didn’t start earning a nice income until he was 35. Guest how much he made on his first job? Only 105k a year….and he signed a 3-year contract with them. After 3 years of “slavery”, he bought a practice from a 71 yo Asian doctor, who also spoke our same language. My brother in law is doing very well at his practice…..easily 4x as much as what his former job paid him. According to him, not a lot of his colleagues open a private practice like him….they usually work at the hospitals. The reason he is doing well is 99.9% of his patients are our countrymates…. Asian people are very easy…they respect their doctors and they don’t sue. It’s still a very hard job… he works 8-10 hours a day.

 

[Cold Front]

Yes, I’ve maxed out my 401k every year since age 29…I am 51 now. I don’t invest in stock because I don’t know much about it. I only invested in rental properties and put money in high yield CDs. I am glad I did this early enough when home prices were about 1/3 as much as they are today.

Even with the house fully paid off, my monthly expense is still around $17k a month. Property tax is around $1900/month ($23k/year), $8-900 for utility bills, $1000 for HOA/pool/landsdcape maintenances, $1500 for health insurance, $2500 for food/dinning out, $2000 for home/life/car/disability insurances, 1500 for a leased BMW, $3k/month for my son’s undergrad at UCLA, $4500 for 401k etc. Once you have lived a nice “doctor” lifestyle for many years since graduation, it’s hard to give it up and have to back to live like an average middle class person when you retire. I’ll need a lot more than $2 million before I can comfortably close up shop and retire. It’s boring to retire so early…..staying home doing nothing in your mid 40s but that’s another topic of discussion.

Yeah, it is a privilege that I can pay for my kids' education. I guess you haven’t had any kid yet. Wait until you have one, I think you will change your mind. We, older generation, have taken so much away from our kids with all these excessive spendings and borrowings. The national debt keeps rising. The social security money will probably be gone when they retire. Giving my kids a debt free education is the least I can do for them. Inflation rate is crazily high. When my son is ready to buy his first house, his first starter home will probably cost around $1.5 million….not $3-400k like when I bought my first house. Don’t forget that you’ll have to pay much higher property tax (and it will be a fixed expense that you will be stuck with as long as you own a house) with a much higher home price. Don’t get married and don’t have kid….and you’ll be “borderline” fine with your $2million saving.

Charles and I both have few things in common, and others not.

Here is another perspective for this stage in my career (this is not a competition).

1. Current age 44.
2. No kids.
3. Bought 1.6M 5,000 sft home couple of years ago at super low interest rate (low 2%) - I lucked out on the rate. Monthly mortgage payments 5.8k. Property taxes 2k/month. Utilities: 400/month (I have 6 siblings and use a lot of family shared accounts for Netflix, Disney, HBO, etc). Groceries: 1k/month (we cook at home a lot). Auto: 2 Porsches (Sedan and 911) paid off. Gas and auto insurance: 450/month. Health insurance: 500/month. No credit card debt. We travel with Amex Business Platinum points (I run the card on all my businesses purchases) internationally on business class 3 times a year. Miscellaneous/travel budget: 1-2k a month. Total: 11-12k/month. Once I pay off the home mortgage, it should be down to 50%/5-6k a month.
4. 401k: I didn’t start until my late 30’s. But I’m dumping a lot of money in retirement account this year, shooting for 1M by end of next year/2024.
5. Work 2 days/week at my practice. Other days I remotely oversee my real estate and logistics businesses. Total 8 different locations.

I could have worked very hard in school and become OS. Worked very hard in the real world instead. Anything is possible, as long as you work hard and have tangible goals. Tap into your potential. It gets easier over time.

 

[charlestweed]

Charles and I both have few things in common, and others not.

Here is another perspective for this stage in my career (this is not a competition).

1. Current age 44.
2. No kids.
3. Bought 1.6M 5,000 sft home couple of years ago at super low interest rate (low 2%) - I lucked out on the rate. Monthly mortgage payments 5.8k. Property taxes 2k/month. Utilities: 400/month (I have 6 siblings and use a lot of family shared accounts for Netflix, Disney, HBO, etc). Groceries: 1k/month (we cook at home a lot). Auto: 2 Porsches (Sedan and 911) paid off. Gas and auto insurance: 450/month. Health insurance: 500/month. No credit card debt. We travel with Amex Business Platinum points (I run the card on all my businesses purchases) internationally on business class 3 times a year. Miscellaneous/travel budget: 1-2k a month. Total: 11-12k/month. Once I pay off the home mortgage, it should be down to 50%/5-6k a month.
4. 401k: I didn’t start until my late 30’s. But I’m dumping a lot of money in retirement account this year, shooting for 1M by end of next year/2024.
5. Work 2 days/week at my practice. Other days I remotely oversee my real estate and logistics businesses. Total 8 different locations.

I could have worked very hard in school and become OS. Worked very hard in the real world instead. Anything is possible, as long as you work hard and have tangible goals. Tap into your potential. It gets easier over time.

Having kids definitely makes a huge difference in the spending. With kids, you tend to eat out more, travel more, and the flight tickets are a lot more expensive for 4 than for just 2. We can only afford to fly economy class. You have to buy your kids cars.....It’s also more a lot more expensive to insure an inexperienced teenage driver.

I am glad that my son goes to a cheap state school. I am surprised that our overall spending has shrunk a little bit since he left for college. I thought it would cost us more. The total cost for dorm (food included) + tuition at UCLA is only $12k per quarter or $3k per month ($12k x 3 quarters/12months). Last year, when my son was in HS and lived with us, we spent a lot more than $3k per month on him….piano lessons, tennis lessons, sport wears, gas for his car, donations for his school, dinning out more often etc.

I guess I was wrong when I said earlier that it wasn’t significantly more expensive to live in CA. Are you sure the total of all your utility bills is only $400? My average electric bill alone is $650 ($450 if I don’t charge my Tesla)….water bill $150, gas bill $100, internet $120….$1k a month in total. And we only use the AC during the hot summer months, June-Oct.

5. Work 2 days/week at my practice. Other days I remotely oversee my real estate and logistics businesses. Total 8 different locations.

Yeah, you have to find something to do to stay sane. I’d go crazy if I stay home doing nothing 7 days/wk, 365 days/year. And the easiest way to avoid this problem is to go to work. Whenever I am home, I have to find work to do around the house...gardening, washing cars, installing new home gadgets etc. I play piano and guitar but my wife keeps complaining because I keep playing the same songs over and over again.

 

[Thehighwind87]

While this is extremely impressive cold front and Charles, I doubt this is the norm. This is the outlier of successful dentists. Congrats on being the top 1%.

 

[charlestweed]

While this is extremely impressive cold front and Charles, I doubt this is the norm. This is the outlier of successful dentists. Congrats on being the top 1%.

It depends on how hard you work, how much you spend, and how much you put aside to save/invest for your future retirement. The path to become the top 1% requires a lot of hard work and sacrifice, which most people are not willing to do. There is no such thing as get rich quick….or luck.

According to Dave Ramsey's survey of 10,000 millionaires, the reason these people earn their million is through consistent investing (8/10 invested in their company’s 401k), living within their means, and hard work. Many of them have ordinary jobs like engineer, teacher, accounting etc. They don’t always make big bucks. 93% of them said they got their wealth because they worked hard, not because they have high salaries. Here is the summary of his study: The National Study of Millionaires

 

[Cold Front]

While this is extremely impressive cold front and Charles, I doubt this is the norm. This is the outlier of successful dentists. Congrats on being the top 1%.

I often disagree with Charles about working hard to be successful, but I actually work hard myself.. and I think 100% hard work + 100% ambition is needed to go further financially.

Charles and I are both from the immigrant community, which I think are a different breed when it comes to hustling. I did very odd jobs before dental school; working in a laundromat (counted quarters), worked in a call center, worked in grocery store (the dairy departments, and restocked supplies from -40 freezers), etc. There were no smart phones and social media in my late teens to early 20s. Life sucked, but those experiences helped tremendously with my patience and social skills later in life.

 

[D1Bound]

I often disagree with Charles about working hard to be successful, but I actually work hard myself.. and I think 100% hard work + 100% ambition is needed to go further financially.

Charles and I are both from the immigrant community, which I think are a different breed when it comes to hustling. I did very odd jobs before dental school; working in a laundromat (counted quarters), worked in a call center, worked in grocery store (the dairy departments, and restocked supplies from -40 freezers), etc. There were no smart phones and social media in my late teens to early 20s. Life sucked, but those experiences helped tremendously with my patience and social skills later in life.

I respect the hustle so much. It grinds my gears when I have people in my social circle with great upbringings that waste their life making excuses and feeling sorry for themself when they only have 2k to their name. Unless someone is disabled, there are no excuses. It is such a privilege to be here in America.