I am a slave to old grade from years ago

[Yourmother]

Anyone else feel like poor old me? I did some serious GPA math last night......

I have a couple of semester of terrible grades back in 96-97 when I was 20. I literally have a semester of Fs and a semester of Ds/Cs........academically suspended. Somehow managed to graduate with Cs and Bs with a 2.13gpa in Poli Sci

Couple years ago began informal post-bac, taking pre-reqs with some 50+ hours at 3.94...if I count the 19 hours of As this semester, its like 70+ hours at nearly 4.0.....you get the point. I'm going to just complete the B.S. Bio. and will have 100 hours postbacc.

At this rate, when I'm done I project a 3.1 GPA cum/ BCPM 3.8. If I apply to osteo, the retakes will apply so my cum will be 3.3 osteo. For some reason I have this nagging feeling that they'll reject me b/c of the 6 Fs, and 4 Ds YEARS ago.

Anyhow, despite my progress I still feel like I'm going to be judged for my horrible subpar experience some 10 years ago.

I am sick of having bad grades I made at 11 years ago dictate my entire life. Any advice from your people? What do I do?

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[DrMidlife]

Yep. When I was in my early 20's I was a bartender for a living, worked some graveyards at a convenience store, cleaned some toilets, etc. It really didn't occur to me to aim any higher than that. I don't know what I was doing in college. I rarely went to class, and sometimes remembered to do assignments. So I've got 20 year old crap grades. More permanent than a tattoo.

Two things help me live with this.

First, I am fairly sure that I'm a unique and compelling candidate, because I've had so many jobs, and lived on so many socioeconomic strata, and eventually succeeded in a 15 year engineering career despite my transcripts. I've fallen down and picked myself up a bazillion times. I could be very wrong, but I think I'll have more in common with my patients than the majority of physicians do. It's beyond me how the average 21 year old could be ready for med school - I needed 20 years more gestation than that.

Second, if you look in pre-allo you'll see that you shouldn't even apply with less than a 3.8 and a half dozen first author papers. Kids are so cute. (My personal favorite was the "what is maturity? somebody told me I need it" thread.) Don't spend 5 minutes comparing yourself to a 20 year old. The automated screens at med schools are going to pass you up, because they have to process so many 20 year olds, but when the EYEBALL ROUND starts, you'll get attention. Take advantage.

Now, if you really want to do something drastic, you can move to Texas, sign up for grade forgiveness there, do your bachelors again, and go to a Texas state school. Hopefully the rules wouldn't change in the next 6 years and tear this down, but it's the only loophole I know of at this point.

Best of luck to you.

 

[sawood]

Maybe try contacting 4-5 med schools that you want to go to and meet with someone at each school face to face asking the best way for you to work around the grades from years ago? Your BCPM is high, and if you kill the MCAT, I would imagine you could get in somewhere.

Hang in there.

Kids are so cute. (My personal favorite was the "what is maturity? somebody told me I need it" thread.)

Where is this thread? I could use a good laugh

 

[McSnappy]

Yep. When I was in my early 20's I was a bartender for a living, worked some graveyards at a convenience store, cleaned some toilets, etc. It really didn't occur to me to aim any higher than that. I don't know what I was doing in college. I rarely went to class, and sometimes remembered to do assignments. So I've got 20 year old crap grades. More permanent than a tattoo.

Two things help me live with this.

First, I am fairly sure that I'm a unique and compelling candidate, because I've had so many jobs, and lived on so many socioeconomic strata, and eventually succeeded in a 15 year engineering career despite my transcripts. I've fallen down and picked myself up a bazillion times. I could be very wrong, but I think I'll have more in common with my patients than the majority of physicians do. It's beyond me how the average 21 year old could be ready for med school - I needed 20 years more gestation than that.

Second, if you look in pre-allo you'll see that you shouldn't even apply with less than a 3.8 and a half dozen first author papers. Kids are so cute. (My personal favorite was the "what is maturity? somebody told me I need it" thread.) Don't spend 5 minutes comparing yourself to a 20 year old. The automated screens at med schools are going to pass you up, because they have to process so many 20 year olds, but when the EYEBALL ROUND starts, you'll get attention. Take advantage.

Now, if you really want to do something drastic, you can move to Texas, sign up for grade forgiveness there, do your bachelors again, and go to a Texas state school. Hopefully the rules wouldn't change in the next 6 years and tear this down, but it's the only loophole I know of at this point.

Best of luck to you.

Your maturity will win them...with a caveat. You must have a kids enthusiasm too. Not cheese, but interested, infectious mature enthusiasm. Don't be a jerk, cocky, or cheesey for sure. And if you need to practice not to be, do it. Get honest opinions of how you come off when you talk with someone you don't know.

2nd: don't think they won't waitlist you or not interview you this year. They are testing the old ones out there to know that you are serious. I waitlisted the first year and then the second year...i was in!
3rd: Be humbly confident. Easily make fun of yourself and spin it into a positive.
4th: depending on where you want to apply and where you are from...tell them you would prefer to go to a rural, underserved area b/c your family is from there, you have/had family out there, you've driven thru there, etc. Whatever the reason to go rural/underserved. B/c the schools are under pressure to put people into rural areas and are recruiting those individuals with ties or want to to those areas.
4th part B: And...let it slip you really love primary care!and will likely take the health corp scholarship/rural scholarship, etc. Whether you will or not. B/c right now, you don't know if you will or not...right the correct answer is NO I DON't know. And once you're in...then decide for sure and become a pediatric neurosurgeon or whatever

 

[Yourmother]

Your maturity will win them...with a caveat. You must have a kids enthusiasm too. Not cheese, but interested, infectious mature enthusiasm. Don't be a jerk, cocky, or cheesey for sure. And if you need to practice not to be, do it. Get honest opinions of how you come off when you talk with someone you don't know.

2nd: don't think they won't waitlist you or not interview you this year. They are testing the old ones out there to know that you are serious. I waitlisted the first year and then the second year...i was in!
3rd: Be humbly confident. Easily make fun of yourself and spin it into a positive.
4th: depending on where you want to apply and where you are from...tell them you would prefer to go to a rural, underserved area b/c your family is from there, you have/had family out there, you've driven thru there, etc. Whatever the reason to go rural/underserved. B/c the schools are under pressure to put people into rural areas and are recruiting those individuals with ties or want to to those areas.
4th part B: And...let it slip you really love primary care!and will likely take the health corp scholarship/rural scholarship, etc. Whether you will or not. B/c right now, you don't know if you will or not...right the correct answer is NO I DON't know. And once you're in...then decide for sure and become a pediatric neurosurgeon or whatever

Actually, my wife is from the sticks. She wants to move back, and of course she is the boss. So I'd be telling the truth about that.

Thanks for the tips guys (and gals) I appreciate it.

 

[Yourmother]

Anybody else.....thanks.

 

[MsAirForce]

Anyone else feel like poor old me? I did some serious GPA math last night......

I have a couple of semester of terrible grades back in 96-97 when I was 20. I literally have a semester of Fs and a semester of Ds/Cs........academically suspended. Somehow managed to graduate with Cs and Bs with a 2.13gpa in Poli Sci

Couple years ago began informal post-bac, taking pre-reqs with some 50+ hours at 3.94...if I count the 19 hours of As this semester, its like 70+ hours at nearly 4.0.....you get the point. I'm going to just complete the B.S. Bio. and will have 100 hours postbacc.

At this rate, when I'm done I project a 3.1 GPA cum/ BCPM 3.8. If I apply to osteo, the retakes will apply so my cum will be 3.3 osteo. For some reason I have this nagging feeling that they'll reject me b/c of the 6 Fs, and 4 Ds YEARS ago.

Anyhow, despite my progress I still feel like I'm going to be judged for my horrible subpar experience some 10 years ago.

I am sick of having bad grades I made at 11 years ago dictate my entire life. Any advice from your people? What do I do?

I'm working from the same stats you are. I was thinking about moving to Texas as well. At this point I'm willing to move anywhere I need to in order to get in. I'm 29 and I still have a ways to go. Good Luck

 

[Yourmother]

already lived there, Texas sucks balls......besides I think my record of recovery might hold some merit.

I figure if I hacked As in all pre-reqs from a major public university, then things might work in my favor. Maybe/maybe not.

 

[nabeel76]

"The automated screens at med schools are going to pass you up, because they have to process so many 20 year olds, but when the EYEBALL ROUND starts, you'll get attention. Take advantage."


Dr. Midlife,

I didn't know there were automated computer screens? I had heard about this but was told that every applicant gets looked at personally. Do you know exactly what the process is for this? Is there some sort of minimum GPA cutoff? Will you automatically recieve a rejection from the school without anybody ever looking at your application if you don't fall within this cutoff? Also, if you know which schools use this system can you let me know.

Thanks.

 

[DrMidlife]

I didn't know there were automated computer screens? I had heard about this but was told that every applicant gets looked at personally. Do you know exactly what the process is for this? Is there some sort of minimum GPA cutoff? Will you automatically recieve a rejection from the school without anybody ever looking at your application if you don't fall within this cutoff? Also, if you know which schools use this system can you let me know.

There are certainly schools that use an automatic screen on a formula (minimum weighted GPA, minimum MCAT, instate, etc.). If you don't make it through that screen, your app might land in a pile for eyeball review (I think this is the norm). Or you might get rejected outright. The automatic screen and summary rejection might not happen until after you buy a secondary app. The eyeball review might be much more harsh than the autoscreen. There are 154 admission varieties to choose from (126 US allo + 28 US osteo).

Choosing schools around this stuff would be backwards. Being paranoid about it won't help much. Convincing yourself that some school is guaranteed to interview you would be foolish. Screening guidelines change all the time. This is why people say "apply broadly." Pick schools that you're interested in, based on location, cost, programs, etc. and THEN dig into their admissions process to help narrow down your list.

Best of luck to you.

 

[jlittlej]

I had a 1.95 GPA my first two years of school with a handful of W's. Transferred and did much better - graduated in four years overall with a combined 2.8-2.9 GPA. I realized sometime during those last two years of school that I wanted to go to med school, but I let the hole I dug with those terrible grades dissuade me from even trying the pre-reqs. I let them stop me from trying for PA or med school in the years following college.

An EMT course finally gave me the kick necessary to start the pre-reqs, and I have a 4.0 in them more than halfway through. Should have 3.1 GPA overall, 3.8 BCPM when I finish them at the end of this spring.

Bad grades from years ago can weigh you down and discourage you, this I know. I feel like I've paid for mine. (Currently on shift, working full time 11p-7a as an EMT so I can go to school full-time during the day.) I do fear applying this summer for fall 2009, having to wait and not getting anywhere, when I'm pretty sure I could start at one of the top Carib schools in the fall of 2008. I'm probably going to do an post-bac SMP starting next fall, though, more than likely at a D.O. school that sends a good percentage of its post-bacers to their med school.

Good luck. All you can do is keep getting As.

 

[njbmd]

Anyone else feel like poor old me? I did some serious GPA math last night......

I have a couple of semester of terrible grades back in 96-97 when I was 20. I literally have a semester of Fs and a semester of Ds/Cs........academically suspended. Somehow managed to graduate with Cs and Bs with a 2.13gpa in Poli Sci

Couple years ago began informal post-bac, taking pre-reqs with some 50+ hours at 3.94...if I count the 19 hours of As this semester, its like 70+ hours at nearly 4.0.....you get the point. I'm going to just complete the B.S. Bio. and will have 100 hours postbacc.

At this rate, when I'm done I project a 3.1 GPA cum/ BCPM 3.8. If I apply to osteo, the retakes will apply so my cum will be 3.3 osteo. For some reason I have this nagging feeling that they'll reject me b/c of the 6 Fs, and 4 Ds YEARS ago.

Anyhow, despite my progress I still feel like I'm going to be judged for my horrible subpar experience some 10 years ago.

I am sick of having bad grades I made at 11 years ago dictate my entire life. Any advice from your people? What do I do?

Yes, your remote performance will always be there. If you feel like a "slave" to this, then you WILL be a "slave" to this remote performance. If you do everything that you can to get your grades as competitive as possible and apply broadly, then you won't be a "slave" to your remote performance.

If you seek rejection, it WILL find you. If you put your best out there in terms of a complete application with every aspect as competitive as possible, you increase your chances of acceptance. No, you can't erase the past but you can demonstrate that you have learned from it, and that you have moved beyond it. Make every part of your application (that is under your control) as competitive and as positive as possible. The only thing that "dictates your life" is you. Don't be your own worst enemy in this process.

 

[shaggybill]

Anyone else feel like poor old me?

I'm in the same boat as well, except that I don't have 11 years in between now and then, only 3. Having no clue that I would eventually pick medicine as a career, I fooled around and ended up with a 2.16 after 2.5 years and 64 credit hours. So now I'm stuck dealing with that.

Current plan is to nail those A's and keep truckin'.

 

[Nasrudin]

Yes, your remote performance will always be there. If you feel like a "slave" to this, then you WILL be a "slave" to this remote performance. If you do everything that you can to get your grades as competitive as possible and apply broadly, then you won't be a "slave" to your remote performance.

If you seek rejection, it WILL find you. If you put your best out there in terms of a complete application with every aspect as competitive as possible, you increase your chances of acceptance. No, you can't erase the past but you can demonstrate that you have learned from it, and that you have moved beyond it. Make every part of your application (that is under your control) as competitive and as positive as possible. The only thing that "dictates your life" is you. Don't be your own worst enemy in this process.

There you go. And that is well-stated. We forget how the negative over-competitive environment here and elsewhere can cripple us as human beings. Do whatever it takes to prevent this from happening to you.

 

[nabeel76]

There are certainly schools that use an automatic screen on a formula (minimum weighted GPA, minimum MCAT, instate, etc.). If you don't make it through that screen, your app might land in a pile for eyeball review (I think this is the norm). Or you might get rejected outright. The automatic screen and summary rejection might not happen until after you buy a secondary app. The eyeball review might be much more harsh than the autoscreen. There are 154 admission varieties to choose from (126 US allo + 28 US osteo).

Choosing schools around this stuff would be backwards. Being paranoid about it won't help much. Convincing yourself that some school is guaranteed to interview you would be foolish. Screening guidelines change all the time. This is why people say "apply broadly." Pick schools that you're interested in, based on location, cost, programs, etc. and THEN dig into their admissions process to help narrow down your list.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for the info, but wouldn't an eyeball round be almost an advantage? I would think that that sort of puts your app at the top of the pile, for screening at the very least, and for us non-traditionals that can bring a lot of diversity with our life experiences, prior leadership roles etc. that can be beneficial, wouldn't you think? Especially for those non-trads that had a rough start over a decade ago and have come back to rock over the past several years academically. In my situation I had a semester of F's (4 F's) in 1995 because I took a full time offer as a Computer Engineer just days after my first semester of college started, needless to say I did not show up to classes after this offer, leaving me with 4 F's and 2 W's on my record. I later came back to school, as a freshman, in 2003 and graduated with a degree in Biology in 2007 with an approx 3.7 cum GPA (not including the F's). I think its around a 3.2 - 3.3 cummulative with the F's. I am under the impression however, that if an actual person eyeballs my app they might realize that that semester has nothing to do with my academic abilities nor my lack of seriousness for my coursework, since I had been offered a full time job in the field I was pursuing to study. Would you agree with this?

Anyways sorry for the long post, just curious to how this might be perceived. All I am hoping for is for someone to actually look at my application so that I can explain why my GPA is lower than I would like it to be. I sort of feel jipped over this situation. Those scores in no way reflect my abilities now or even then, considering I was never even there to take any tests.

 

[medicalbound]

Anyone else feel like poor old me? I did some serious GPA math last night......

I have a couple of semester of terrible grades back in 96-97 when I was 20. I literally have a semester of Fs and a semester of Ds/Cs........academically suspended. Somehow managed to graduate with Cs and Bs with a 2.13gpa in Poli Sci

Couple years ago began informal post-bac, taking pre-reqs with some 50+ hours at 3.94...if I count the 19 hours of As this semester, its like 70+ hours at nearly 4.0.....you get the point. I'm going to just complete the B.S. Bio. and will have 100 hours postbacc.

At this rate, when I'm done I project a 3.1 GPA cum/ BCPM 3.8. If I apply to osteo, the retakes will apply so my cum will be 3.3 osteo. For some reason I have this nagging feeling that they'll reject me b/c of the 6 Fs, and 4 Ds YEARS ago.

Anyhow, despite my progress I still feel like I'm going to be judged for my horrible subpar experience some 10 years ago.

I am sick of having bad grades I made at 11 years ago dictate my entire life. Any advice from your people? What do I do?

I don't spend much time on SDN anymore, but I just wanted to chime in. I was in a very similar situation. I liked to refer to my previous poor performances as "academic indescretions". It was 10 years previously (including academic suspension), my cumulative was only slightly higher than your projected, but my cumulative for the last 100+ credit hours was ~3.8. In any case, I was accepted to 2 out of the 3 schools I applied to and am now halfway through my second year of med school. You cannot do anything about the past, but keep pressing hard on what you are doing now and you can succeed. Best of luck!

 

[Rotinaj]

Same boat here. I had 55 hours of Ws for my first 4 semesters of college spread over 3 years of trying and being suspended. 3 years later, I come back and I'm taking all my old courses over getting A's. Basically I've been told that if you've shown a trend of improvement like that and you nailed all of your pre-med classes plus get a 30+ on your MCAT, a lot of schools, especially DOs will be willing to accept you. It's obvious that once you found a real goal that you showed what you can do. Medical schools are starting to come around to the reality that a 4.0 from birth isn't the only factor in being a good doctor.