"I am Adam Lanza's mother"

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OldPsychDoc

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Heart-rending...
...and very real. Most of us who are in residency or practice have been faced with families like this. What works? How do you respond?

Please--no gun control debates here.

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This whole story so far, and the accompanying local and national emotional and political reactions, have unfolded as if scripted. Here we go again, dammit. But this article is one of the truest and most relevant things I've read on the subject. Thanks so much for sharing it, OPD. I'm passing it on to my fellow residents. It's such an important perspective.
 
Thanks so much for sharing. Such an interesting and important perspective. I don't have any answers as a 3rd year med student, but trying to help kids like this is definitely part of my motivation for wanting to go into psych.
 
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Heartbreaking. I have a 40-yo brother with severe and refractory paranoid schizophrenia. He has been tried on everything including ECT (twice--it helped a little, for a little while). When he is at his best, although never free of his persecutory delusions and frightening hallucinations, he is sweet and deadpan-funny with a remarkable distant memory. His favorite solace is fishing.
When he is acutely ill, he is downright scary, but most of his violence is turned on himself. Twice in the past year he has viciously attacked 2 other people, one a roommate who is also mentally ill and once a passerby who he (delusionally) believed had threatened him. Both of these events landed him in the psych crisis center for emergency meds but did not warrant a psychiatric admission. Both of the victims refused to press charges because they knew he was mentally ill. My mother, a critical care nurse and arguably the one person who knows my brother's illness best, begged for help. The police and social workers told her that without a criminal record there is nothing they can do.
The day after his 40th birthday he took a kitchen knife and deeply wounded his left arm and just missed the central vessels of his neck before my terrified dad could get the knife away from him. My mom was working a contract job several hours from home and my dad had to call her at work and ask her to come to the hospital because he couldn't handle it on his own. My dad is a sweet, gentle engineer who has been somewhat willfully ignorant of his firstborn's severe mental illness for the past 25 years. Indeed, it's quite a miracle my parents have managed to stay married as my mom has borne the brunt of dealing with his illness all this time. Even after this most recent violent attack on himself, with repeated voicing of intent to kill himself because he "deserved it", he was only eligible for overnight respite care. There were (again, no surprise) no available psychiatric beds in the entire state of Oregon. A social worker told my mom he wasn't "sick enough". The next day my brother told the respite worker he was better and wanted to leave. There was no 72-hr emergency hold paperwork on file so she let him go, walking miles from home in inadequate clothing in cold weather. My mother discovered this many hours later when she called to check on him. She was incredulous. I was furious. Do you know how exasperating it is to try to reach the emergency psychiatric hotline at 8pm EST on a Sunday, 3100 miles away, because it's the only way you can help?
He turned up on my mother's porch the next morning, cold and tired and hungry. Thankfully he has a good sense of direction.
About a month later after several more outbursts he finally did get an inpatient admission for a few days. His meds were cleaned up (the PMHNP had him on a dangerous cocktail, including 500 mg clozapine and a few other things). He was a little better but only just. Twice in the last week has had smaller outbursts that required emergency meds--thank goodness for my mom's foresight and Zyprexa Zydis.
I love my brother. I will never understand his illness. I hate schizophrenia. I am reasonably good at primary care psychiatry (been a PA for 12 yr, now an M2) but I know I could never be a psychiatrist--it hits too close to home. I am grateful to those of you who do it well.
 
Thank you for the link.
I am in the midst of reading Crazy by Pete Early. Someone had suggested it on this forum. I don't know much about Adam Lanza, but I hope that this incident sparks more public discussion about how to treat mentally ill.
 
It seems like the point of the article is that deinstitutionalization has not worked.

I have anxiety disorders and get outpatient treatment, but I have a friends with more complicated issues whose life is held together with a patchwork of a night in jail here or there, frequent calls to the police, seeing a psychiatrist when the family is able to drive the person there, etc.

Getting a bed in a state-run longterm residential facility where I live takes *years*. You need to have a family first that advocates for you. Your family has to push all the buttons of the community services board to bulldoze your way into the system. And if you make it that far, the waiting list is actually a matter of years for an inpatient bed.

I would actually like to read more about asylums, I don't know that much. But I think I've read that asylums actually were quite humane at some points in history, but that it's fluctuated greatly, in terms of how patients have been treated.

It's just too much to ask of families though to try to contain these issues on an outpatient basis. And it's not fair to the person with the mental illness either.
 
Here's where I'm stuck (and admittedly a little demoralized) -- even if we had all the funds in the world and a complete lack of stigma, how do we deal with someone like this? As mental health practitioners, can we do anything to meaningfully treat this kid? But maybe we can help the mom ...

Can we not go to guns at all in this conversation? As a practitioner, I've also got to admit that increased restrictions on gun ownership specifically for the mentally ill concern me because I worry that people would actually avoid treatment because of that. A good chunk of my time in places like the VA is spent reassuring my patients that I'm not going to take away their gun because they're coming in to see me.
 
Here's where I'm stuck (and admittedly a little demoralized) -- even if we had all the funds in the world and a complete lack of stigma, how do we deal with someone like this? As mental health practitioners, can we do anything to meaningfully treat this kid? But maybe we can help the mom ...

Can we not go to guns at all in this conversation? As a practitioner, I've also got to admit that increased restrictions on gun ownership specifically for the mentally ill concern me because I worry that people would actually avoid treatment because of that. A good chunk of my time in places like the VA is spent reassuring my patients that I'm not going to take away their gun because they're coming in to see me.

There didn't seem to be any indication her son is in psychotherapy treatment. That's one more thing to do, if it's not already being done. Assuming he has a personality disorder, I would think the most you could do is try various forms of therapy and parenting classes for the parents. If you had unlimited money, why not a residential program with enough staff that someone can always be with the child as needed, and attending school from within that residential program, in the form of some sort of pleasant asylum. The person could have frequent psychotherapy to see how much he could be treated, and if he couldn't have the personality traits changed, he could develop a plan for life with those limitations, at least come to try to understand those traits.

I think that's one area where parents of children with Down's syndrome for example excel over parents with children with mental illness: they start at a young age imagining a realistic life plan for their children and teaching them life skills (at least from what I've seen from the outside).

For people such as myself, there really were no life alternatives to dropping out of school. As a high-schooler with anxiety and panic attacks refractory to Paxil and Ativan, I had no options since I was in all college or AP courses. And I asked for help from guidance counselors. The only way I could have gone to school from home was to take remedial courses. So, I spent the last couple of years of high school sitting in the hallways or vomiting in the bathrooms. It was a painful waste of time. Still graduated at the top of my class because I was able to coast, but I had no ability to be comfortable or enjoy life, and I dropped out of college a year later because of the crippling anxiety. I was, according to the accolades, one of the best prepared students for the world. But 10 years later I can barely take care of myself and am battling to get off Ativan.

We need something for people to do with their lives who are severely mentally ill. There is such a high rate of disability among people with mental illness, and they don't have a life purpose. Treatment with drugs actually seems to increase the rate of disability, and of course you can argue chicken/egg with that, but the point is that a lot of mentally ill people don't have a plan for their lives. Olaf Palma said it was worth it for society to spend $40,000 a year to give a person a job who is otherwise unemployable even if society couldn't get a complete return on that money, and I agree. You have to build a society where there is room for everyone in that society who is born into it, including people with severe mental illness.

Not that it would necessarily help in this situation, but I think a developmental psychology class wouldn't be a bad idea for all parents, as well. She at the least needs support and education for her particular situation.
 
Treatment with drugs actually seems to increase the rate of disability, and of course you can argue chicken/egg with that, but the point is that a lot of mentally ill people don't have a plan for their lives.
Source?
 
I have also wondered what should be done for these kind of mentally ill persons. Interesting article, I wish there was a source where we could find some answers to these questions.
 
It seems like the point of the article is that deinstitutionalization has not worked.
.

Interesting perspective. I had not yet considered this when looking at the following statsitics. Something is amiss.

Mass shootings by decade:

1900s: 0
1910s: 2
1920s: 2
1930s: 9
1940s: 9
1950s: 1
1960s: 6
1970s: 13
1980s: 24
1990s: 43
2000s: 24

The cause is likely multifactoral, though I'll note that the increase in these mass killings seems to have accelerated right at the point where deinstitutionalization began to occur (admist a sea of other social changes, which I had given much more thought to).

Interestingly, the rate of gun ownership has declined as mass killings have accelerated.

I often wonder what the lives of our patients would have looked like decades ago. It's something we can't truly speculate without looking at the way society has also changed them or made them who they currently are today.
 
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Any thoughts on the changes in media in relation to the increase?

I'd say the impact of media probably has more to do with the increase in mass killings than deinstitutionalization. The way we glorify and paradoxically normalize violence (I watched an episode of the Vampire Diaries the day before the shooting that featured a dude killing 12 people like it was nothing, and that airs at 8pm on a Thursday), and then package for the masses has an effect on people's actions.

A forensic psychiatrist discussed the way that the 24 hour news cycle impacts this as well . The idea is the media continually focuses on the murderers and details about the killings (and often ignores the victims!), and there are usually clusters of attacks within a few days of each other. He implies that this is because copycats get the idea that these crimes lead to notoriety and some distorted glory.

About deinstitutionalization- I'm really not an advocate of institutions generally because all the lit seems to say they were bad, bad things for the people in them (and continue to be, at least my local ones). I'd also say many of the perpetrators we're discussing wouldn't have been institutionalized. Most were more likely to have undiagnosed PDs, not severe DDs or SMIs.
 
1. As of this point, we know nothing of the shooter, to my knowledge.
2. In any case, most anybody who would engage in a mass shooting, sans some other primary psychiatric diagnosis, would, by default, fit criteria for antisocial personality disorder.
3. What I'm more interested in is how we (as a society) keep blending axes I and II. In a way, we label APD as mental illness as if it lumps in with all other axis I diagnoses (again as a society and not specifically the field of mental health). A shooter who's manic or psychotic could feasibly be deemed 'mentally ill' in the public's eyes for how they understand that term. What I mean is that psychosis and mania, though can be chronic (psychosis), have acute exacerbations and the person does have an underlying problem that can be otherwise treated and/or managed to an extent. Not so for an antisocial. Do we perpetuate a very unreal expectation by focusing on mental health when we're dealing with axis II and ASPD? It's not like these guys have a different prognosis with a little treatment.
 
1. As of this point, we know nothing of the shooter, to my knowledge.
2. In any case, most anybody who would engage in a mass shooting, sans some other primary psychiatric diagnosis, would, by default, fit criteria for antisocial personality disorder.
3. What I'm more interested in is how we (as a society) keep blending axes I and II. In a way, we label APD as mental illness as if it lumps in with all other axis I diagnoses (again as a society and not specifically the field of mental health). A shooter who's manic or psychotic could feasibly be deemed 'mentally ill' in the public's eyes for how they understand that term. What I mean is that psychosis and mania, though can be chronic (psychosis), have acute exacerbations and the person does have an underlying problem that can be otherwise treated and/or managed to an extent. Not so for an antisocial. Do we perpetuate a very unreal expectation by focusing on mental health when we're dealing with axis II and ASPD? It's not like these guys have a different prognosis with a little treatment.

I think you make a good point in that the public isn't aware of the different types of mental illnesses and that we often think of them as being on a spectrum; although, the public does seem to have some sort of belief in an "inherent evil" when they talk about the 1000-yard stare, etc, and it seems to even have been popularized in movies lately where there are evil children in horror movies (I've only seen trailers so I"m not sure how accurate that is). I don't believe in the idea of inherent evil, but I'm saying that the public does seem to have a gut-level feeling about certain people and realize the difference between that and a mood disorder. But you're right in that you could confuse availability of treatment with the possibility of being able to treat someone. Still, I think society wants some sort of control of people even in lieu of good outpatient treatment options.

I was also under the impression that whether a disorder is mood or personality it's still considered being mentally ill.

Anyhow, even though I had been talking about personality disorders, I hadn't been thinking about ASPD until you mentioned that term, which people seem to automatically equate to psychopathy, even though ASPD is diagnosable without a person lacking the ability for empathy. So, it seems even there, there is the same divide you were mentioning in public perception: between ASPD where the diagnostician means to say psychopathy and one where that is not the intent but the criteria otherwise fit. I'm not even sure if the idea we have of a psychopath exists in reality, and if so, why isn't there a diagnosis for it? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't know if it does.

I was curious myself what treatments are available for ASPD, and I'm not sure how relevant these are to a person who truly is psychopathic and lacks the ability for empathy (again, assuming that exists), but I found these articles, which were interesting to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multisystemic_therapy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_Therapy

The only thing I would challenge you on is the belief that there is no treatment available, which you seemed to imply. However true the belief is, it's a self-limiting belief. I ask this not as a challenge but with sincerity: is it known with certainty that lack of empathy is an incontrovertible state? Is it ever a defense mechanism? And if it is biological, shouldn't we assume it could be possible to treat in the future?

And is there a better present solution until then? That's why in my earlier posts I had been bringing up the idea of a residential one-on-one, intensive psychotherapy type solution; although, I had been thinking of personality disorders that are known to be treatable. I'm not as familiar with ASPD, but it seems like it's worth trying. I know right now there are currently legal and financial issues preventing such a system.

I think we need to believe there are solutions and create them, even if they don't exist with our current tools: medication, short-term hospitalization and returning the patient to the original environment, jail, family support, outpatient therapy.

Even with my anxiety disorder, it has put an enormous strain on my family, and I have no violent tendencies, etc. Families are the main support system for mentally ill people, I believe, but it really harms relationships, and as the mother in the article pointed out, it's not enough.

I'm in the system as a "consumer," and so I don't help really except as triage to friends who call me and I try to give them good advice and direct them to community resources, and so it might seem a bit unfair for me to give advice, but I really do think it's important to believe that something dramatically better, dramatically different could exist and could help. That massive amounts of research into mental illness, and not just into pharmacology but into all forms of therapies and new therapies can be done. And that if nothing else building up our ability to do palliative treatment for mental illness, to open up doors and residences where people can be helped without having to enter through the criminal justice system, would be a start.

I'm one of the people like most people in society today who talks to people after they've seen their psychiatrist on an out-patient basis for a crisis. Where they usually come away with Zyprexa. Or they've been to the ER with the same. And they're no better off except that they get some sleep.

I'm trying to write all this in a cohesive way, but I don't know the answer, and I know I probably sound offensive toward your profession, and I don't want to be. I guess I just want people to at least be able to imagine something much better.
 
A forensic psychiatrist discussed the way that the 24 hour news cycle impacts this as well . The idea is the media continually focuses on the murderers and details about the killings (and often ignores the victims!), and there are usually clusters of attacks within a few days of each other. He implies that this is because copycats get the idea that these crimes lead to notoriety and some distorted glory.

Based on my reading of the literature, this seems like the most likely case, much more than de-institutionalization (which happened, in large part, because many patients were getting abuse rather than treatment in them).

Here's where I'm stuck (and admittedly a little demoralized) -- even if we had all the funds in the world and a complete lack of stigma, how do we deal with someone like this? As mental health practitioners, can we do anything to meaningfully treat this kid? But maybe we can help the mom ...

I was wondering that, too. From the article, this isn't a kid who is not getting treatment--this is a kid who has been given a variety of behavioral AND pharmaceutical treatments and has apparently failed to adequately respond to any of them.
 
is it known with certainty that lack of empathy is an incontrovertible state? Is it ever a defense mechanism?

I seem to recall reading some theories on this, but I don't think any of it was more than brainstorming. If I'm remembering right, a girl I graduated undergrad with found a statistically significant regression between a depression inventory (don't know which) and a psychopathy inventory (PCL-YV) in juvenile offenders as part of her honors thesis. I'm in the midst of pulling an all nighter fora test... but a very quick search didn't seem to turn up anything else about that. Not sure if she pursued publishing or not, or if the lab looked into it further independently.
 
If I'm remembering right, a girl I graduated undergrad with found a statistically significant regression between a depression inventory (don't know which) and a psychopathy inventory (PCL-YV) in juvenile offenders as part of her honors thesis.
Right, because folks with psychopathy/kids with conduct are at much higher risk for depression. It unfortunately doesn't follow that treating depression treats psychopathy.
 
Based on my reading of the literature, this seems like the most likely case, much more than de-institutionalization (which happened, in large part, because many patients were getting abuse rather than treatment in them).
Deinstitutionalization had a lot more to do with money than it did with abuse or neglect. Any time the government talks about closing one service to be captured by another service, get ready for the sound of a lot of lives going down the drain.
 
1. As of this point, we know nothing of the shooter, to my knowledge.
2. In any case, most anybody who would engage in a mass shooting, sans some other primary psychiatric diagnosis, would, by default, fit criteria for antisocial personality disorder.
3. What I'm more interested in is how we (as a society) keep blending axes I and II. In a way, we label APD as mental illness as if it lumps in with all other axis I diagnoses (again as a society and not specifically the field of mental health). A shooter who's manic or psychotic could feasibly be deemed 'mentally ill' in the public's eyes for how they understand that term. What I mean is that psychosis and mania, though can be chronic (psychosis), have acute exacerbations and the person does have an underlying problem that can be otherwise treated and/or managed to an extent. Not so for an antisocial. Do we perpetuate a very unreal expectation by focusing on mental health when we're dealing with axis II and ASPD? It's not like these guys have a different prognosis with a little treatment.

My thoughts exactly. Improving access to mental health services in our society is so important that I'm not at all motivated to argue against people who look at these mass shootings as evidence in support of this fact, so I usually keep my mouth shut about how misguided I find that line of reasoning. Most mass shooting perpetrators, from what I can glean, have APD and have in many cases received "appropriate" psychiatric care (quotes are due to the lack of currently available treatment for APD). I know the OP requested we not go there, but it seems to me that the only thing that can limit the number of people killed in mass shootings by sociopaths is to limit their access to highly efficient instruments of death. :cough: assault weapons ban :cough:
 
In reading this article, I felt bad for the kid. The mom wrote under her own name and included a picture of her son. I'd just hate to be this kid and have to go to school today knowing that I was the subject of a viral blog post that depicted me as a crazy little kid who was making my family's life hell and might kill people one day.
 
In reading this article, I felt bad for the kid. The mom wrote under her own name and included a picture of her son. I'd just hate to be this kid and have to go to school today knowing that I was the subject of a viral blog post that depicted me as a crazy little kid who was making my family's life hell and might kill people one day.

It sure did go viral. It's all over my facebook feed. I recommended it to a few other people -- nope, already saw it.
 
Deinstitutionalization had a lot more to do with money than it did with abuse or neglect. Any time the government talks about closing one service to be captured by another service, get ready for the sound of a lot of lives going down the drain.

I disagree. No doubt many saw financial savings as a peripheral benefit, but more than anything, deinstitutionalization was driven by the growing dominance of our society by the liberal belief in equal freedom for all people and sacrosanct individual autonomy, which dicated that it was unfair and a violation of a person's rights to lock him away in an asylum for life. We now think that a person has a right to disturb others with his psychosis in public, and the rest of us have no right to be free of this. Of course, now that we are seeing the consequences of this disastrous trend, liberal society keeps blaming it on the alleged "conservative" principle of slashing social services. But almost no one is willing to say that we need to bring back the asylums and simply start locking away the Adam Lanzas, the Vince Weiguang Lis, the Jared Loughners, the Seung-Hui Chos, as was done in our previous, saner society. Why not? Becuase that would be unfair.
 
How many non violent people would you have to lock up in order to prevent one act of violence? There was no indication that most of these people were violent, just somewhat odd. How many odd people have you seen who never do anything violent? Do you want to lock up everyone with autism or psychosis just in case? I have to say that this is a power I don't want.
 
No doubt many saw financial savings as a peripheral benefit, but more than anything, deinstitutionalization was driven by the growing dominance of our society by the liberal belief in equal freedom for all people and sacrosanct individual autonomy, which dicated that it was unfair and a violation of a person's rights to lock him away in an asylum for life.
Your above was almost verbatim Reagan's argument for deinstitutionalization, as he was one of the big pushers of the trend. He obviously would object to your use the L word, he did justify his push with words like freedom, autonomy, and rights. I agree that there was ethical reasons for the change (Kennedy was one of the early proponents, mostly due to the institutionalization of the developmentally delayed), but if you think finances were a "peripheral benefit" you have a much more charitable view of the government than I.
Of course, now that we are seeing the consequences of this disastrous trend, liberal society keeps blaming it on the alleged "conservative" principle of slashing social services.
Agree with you on the disasterous trends as well as the slashing of social services being a prime cause.
But almost no one is willing to say that we need to bring back the asylums and simply start locking away the Adam Lanzas, the Vince Weiguang Lis, the Jared Loughners, the Seung-Hui Chos, as was done in our previous, saner society.
Well, the "simply start locking away" is the part that worries people. This was done in the "saner society" (aka the bad old days) and you found asylums stocked with the developmentally delayed, homosexuals, social service admits, etc. It ain't a simply thing.

Pendulums seem happiest in the middle. There is a need for facilities to help people like the mother who wrote this article. Long-term inpatient care and treatment (note: not a jail for the mentally ill). Somewhere between the option of having them homeless, terrorizing their families or shooting up schools and the option of having them overmedicated, sedated, and just festering away in a locked warehouse.

Like many things, I think what the writer is calling for is a rational discussion about how to handle patients such as her son. And avoiding the extremes when trying to come up with a solution is probably the best bet. Extremes tend not to work well. That's why they are extremes.
 
It appeares that Adam Lanza's mother contributed to her own death:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Friends-say-believed-world-edge-collapse.html

This is the problem (from the link):

Friends who regularly played Mrs Lanza at a dice game said they too never managed to see the inside of her home. But others noted that beneath the mellow exterior, she was highly-strung and appeared to be ‘holding herself together’.

We observe these things in our friends, family, neighbors, and children, yet they go unreported and untreated. Did any of her "dice friends" ever offer to help her, to ask what was wrong, or to refer her for treatment? Why is there no system in place to refer people we're worried about for treatment or evaluation?

There were clear warning signs. In this case. In the Batman case. In the Va. Tech case. In nearly every case of these horrific events I can think of...there were clear signs of mental illness impacting a family, yet a blind eye was turned.

We need to do better as a society.
 
For another perspective on the article, check out the following link:

http://mypoorgeneration.wordpress.com/

Thanks for posting this. It sounds like Liza Long has documented a pretty significant history of her mental illness (although she is much more vague when it comes to disclosing her own personal details). I'm a little terrified of any behavioral plan that involves hospitalization for saying the wrong thing. Always love when the psychiatrist/treatment is used as punishment. Its nice to read the above post and see that people are able to bounce back from that experience, fight through whats probably terrifying transference to reengage in psychiatric care.

One of the most frustrating aspects of the child was dealing with the parents refuse to have any meaningful conversation/family meeting about discharge, then show up belligerent when its time to leave. Everyone tries to control expectations, explain the purpose of acute stabilization, but when that fails to placate the parent, its generally the same canned speech: insurance companies won't reimburse a longer stay. I'm guessing the message that those parents ultimately filter out and hear: "We don't have the money to take care of your kid." I'll join the chorus of people calling for more mental health funding, but not so we can lock up kids longer with the presumption that we're stopping the next Sandy Hook.
 
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Another response.

*sigh* The system is screwed, and whether we like it or not, there will be people who will always blame us for not "catching it" before something happens. Good that people are talking, but what do you put the chances of change happening?
 
Heart-rending...
...and very real. Most of us who are in residency or practice have been faced with families like this. What works? How do you respond?

Please--no gun control debates here.

I find the article disturbing. I don't trust the woman who wrote it--first of all, no one can predict who will become a future mass murderer, and if they could, I believe those people probably would get free help, in order to protect the safety of the rest of us. Or they'd be put in jail pre-emptively. Americans are not squeamish about locking people up, so if we could identify future mass murderers I'm sure some action would be taken. The reason dangerous people are out there is because we can't predict violence well.

And second, even if what she says is all true, why do this to her son? I get the feeling she is seeking publicity, or pity. There's a "martyr complex" quality to her story.

The "Russian novel of behavioral plans" and "slew of antipsychotics" makes it sound to me like this woman turned a significant amount of parenting responsibility over to doctors whom she's begged for "diagnoses." Obviously I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling. The reason nothing is working could be that she's a big part of the problem.

And what's she doing being a "single mother of 4 children?" Ok I don't want to sound judgmental, but I imagine that household is chaotic to say the least. Kids in that situation deserve to be asked if they'd rather live somewhere else.
 
I find the article disturbing. I don't trust the woman who wrote it--first of all, no one can predict who will become a future mass murderer, and if they could, I believe those people probably would get free help, in order to protect the safety of the rest of us. Or they'd be put in jail pre-emptively. Americans are not squeamish about locking people up, so if we could identify future mass murderers I'm sure some action would be taken. The reason dangerous people are out there is because we can't predict violence well.

And second, even if what she says is all true, why do this to her son? I get the feeling she is seeking publicity, or pity. There's a "martyr complex" quality to her story.

The "Russian novel of behavioral plans" and "slew of antipsychotics" makes it sound to me like this woman turned a significant amount of parenting responsibility over to doctors whom she's begged for "diagnoses." Obviously I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling. The reason nothing is working could be that she's a big part of the problem.

And what's she doing being a "single mother of 4 children?" Ok I don't want to sound judgmental, but I imagine that household is chaotic to say the least. Kids in that situation deserve to be asked if they'd rather live somewhere else.

I didn't like the article either because I tend to empathize with the underdog, and I thought she sounded so incredibly aggressive about her son and almost happy about disliking him. I actually wrote a long post that I didn't post about my feelings on it that I was too tired to edit. The short of it was that I worry that identifying people like this at a young age 1) possibly has no benefits and 2) creates this identity for the child of who he is, that he is bad, and the world becomes this super serious game, in a way where he has been told what he will do that is bad and what will happen and there are no other options for him other than to fulfill the identity created for him. He's given one painful identity to be. You focus on the problem to the exclusion of everything else and you become that problem.

I know there is this idea that you should take every possible warning sign seriously, but what if taking every possible warning sign seriously has no benefit and actually makes the kid worse? That's the short of what I was trying to say I think—I'm on a very bad sleep schedule, so I'm not terribly lucid. I'll elaborate later.

Anyhow, today I came across this analysis of the woman's previous blogs that casts some doubts on the veracity of what she wrote:

http://sarahkendzior.com/2012/12/16/want-the-truth-behind-i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-read-her-blog/

When I first read the original article, I did think to myself: why does everyone take her n=1 experience as valid with no proof? (I'm no stranger to having mine discounted!) But then I figured, well there must be enough cases identical to hers, that whether hers is true or not doesn't matter.

But then I have been thinking that every case is incredibly unique. And that maybe there is nothing so simple as this woman having an "evil" child with no recourse. There's no excuse for violence, but what causes a person to be a certain way can vary greatly. And frankly when I read about the approaches she's used to treat her child, it would make me feel extraordinarily antagonized. And that's what I was saying about pigeonholing a child form a young age as something like "bad" and it following you everywhere. I was thinking we should just accept her story as true, even though it bothered me to do so, but there's always more to learn about a situation, even if the situation is your own. There's psychoanalysis where people learn things about themselves they never knew they felt (that's the idea at least), and so when you think of it from that perspective, it is odd that we all judge a child who for all we know could be a figment of the writer's imagination, let alone someone we've never met!
 
I agree, she makes it sound like she is absolutely perfect and calm in the face of her son's horrifying declarations and behaviors. I am not a perfect parent, but I think I do OK, and I am not always perfect and calm with my pretty normally but 'exuberantly' behaved 4 and 5 year-old kids ('get your BOOTS PLEASE'), BUT, I haven't been in her shoes. It is hard to say.

I wondered if she was a single mom of 4 because of what the stress of dealing with this kid did to the marriage.

We all have cared for kids/families like this. I feel helpless in these situations, and it is a large reason why I didn't go to into child. Being candid, there is part of me that feels like while all can appear normal in a family from the outside, it is pretty rare that people just 'turn out' like this, that something must be either intentionally or unintentionally have gone quite wrong at home. However, easy for me to say with 2 pretty normal (so far) kiddos. I suppose there can be the proverbial 'bad seed'

Bottom line, lots of questions here. And (sorry OPD) in listening to the gun control stuff in the news today I have large concerns about limiting guns for 'mentally ill' and what that means in terms of confidentiality and people not seeking care. Legislators seem to think folks can take a test and be cleared or not to own an assault rifle. I feel like there is a fine line to walk here, between defending our patients and protecting the public. If we don't defend our patients no one will. And this is coming from someone who owns no guns, really doesn't like them and generally thinks they are a bad idea.
 
I wondered if she was a single mom of 4 because of what the stress of dealing with this kid did to the marriage.

Ok again, I don't want to sound judgmental, but what kind of guy did she marry in that case? And shouldn't he/they be paying child support? Why isn't she tracking down the deadbeat dad rather than writing blog articles? And why are her kids only getting the cadillac health insurance policy now? Shouldn't they have had that all their lives? She makes it sound like she really sacrificed for them--but get this, she gave up a freelance career. In other words she gave up nothing!

Seriously my job has made me very jaded. I'm not so much against the single mom thing as I just don't get the single-mom-four-kids and "oh yeah I'm a freelance writer" deal.

The US not being a socialist utopia with free child care, you'd think being a single mom of one kid would be enough.
 
I saw kids like this at the psych ER every day or two. Different cocktail every month or two. Every doc (including me) thinks he/she knows the dx. Therapists visit the home every week or two. And every time something happens, CPS threatens to charge Mom for hitting/holding the child or for not protecting the sibs. School refuses to let him in but Mom can't quit work to home school him. Every time someone nearly gets killed, Mom weeps and begs for help so he doesn't end up in a group home. She pleads for placement at whichever facility might help the most and have decent aftetcare, even if it means she had to drive 2 hrs to get there every day.

And she didn't choose to be a single mom of 4. They divorced largely because she would not permit him to scream and threaten the boy, or maybe he gave in to frustration and abused the boy.

There are infinite variations, of course. But the story is largely the same.
 
Or she divorced him because she could not handle the fact that her husband was appropriately punishing the child, although harshly, but in a manner that prevented further deterioration of his behavior. Our parents' generation certainly did not have as many issues with adolescent or early adult mass murderers. I see children daily that were not disciplined appropriately and now their entire household walks on eggshells. Firm limit setting, parents. Firm limiting setting.

I saw kids like this at the psych ER every day or two. Different cocktail every month or two. Every doc (including me) thinks he/she knows the dx. Therapists visit the home every week or two. And every time something happens, CPS threatens to charge Mom for hitting/holding the child or for not protecting the sibs. School refuses to let him in but Mom can't quit work to home school him. Every time someone nearly gets killed, Mom weeps and begs for help so he doesn't end up in a group home. She pleads for placement at whichever facility might help the most and have decent aftetcare, even if it means she had to drive 2 hrs to get there every day.

And she didn't choose to be a single mom of 4. They divorced largely because she would not permit him to scream and threaten the boy, or maybe he gave in to frustration and abused the boy.

There are infinite variations, of course. But the story is largely the same.
 
Or she divorced him because she could not handle the fact that her husband was appropriately punishing the child, although harshly, but in a manner that prevented further deterioration of his behavior. Our parents' generation certainly did not have as many issues with adolescent or early adult mass murderers. I see children daily that were not disciplined appropriately and now their entire household walks on eggshells. Firm limit setting, parents. Firm limiting setting.

Which parenting style are you suggesting? Harsh punishment doesn't sound like anything that is humane or effective. I was under the impression that high-quality attachment in the early years and authoritative parenting is the consensus of what is ideal. Countries that have outlawed all forms of physical punishment have far lower murder rates than the US. You can say argue that's not causal, but it's not any worse than your anecdotal evidence that you perceive the children you treat were not disciplined according to your standards or your assumption that a previous generation didn't have as many issues with violence.
 
Most of these kids that kill people, just have horrible parents.
 
Re: deinstitutionalizaiton history

I was just going through memory lane with my Amazon wishlist and came across a coffee table book featuring photographs of state mental hospitals. I can see why I had been drawn to the book based on the description (and why I thought there were good years of asylums):

For more than half the nation's history, vast mental hospitals were a prominent feature of the American landscape. From the mid-nineteenth century to the early twentieth, over 250 institutions for the insane were built throughout the United States; by 1948, they housed more than a half million patients. The blueprint for these hospitals was set by Pennsylvania hospital superintendant Thomas Story Kirkbride: a central administration building flanked symmetrically by pavilions and surrounded by lavish grounds with pastoral vistas. Kirkbride and others believed that well-designed buildings and grounds, a peaceful environment, a regimen of fresh air, and places for work, exercise, and cultural activities would heal mental illness. But in the second half of the twentieth century, after the introduction of psychotropic drugs and policy shifts toward community-based care, patient populations declined dramatically, leaving many of these beautiful, massive buildings--and the patients who lived in them--neglected and abandoned.

Architect and photographer Christopher Payne spent six years documenting the decay of state mental hospitals like these, visiting seventy institutions in thirty states. Through his lens we see splendid, palatial exteriors (some designed by such prominent architects as H. H. Richardson and Samuel Sloan) and crumbling interiors--chairs stacked against walls with peeling paint in a grand hallway; brightly colored toothbrushes still hanging on a rack; stacks of suitcases, never packed for the trip home. Accompanying Payne's striking and powerful photographs is an essay by Oliver Sacks (who described his own experience working at a state mental hospital in his book Awakenings). Sacks pays tribute to Payne's photographs and to the lives once lived in these places, "where one could be both mad and safe."

The book:

http://www.amazon.com/Asylum-Inside...UTF8&colid=3CTK429C8RPOQ&coliid=IXRCFDFM9TBIU
 
A lot of parents are horrible. A lot of parents are great. The correlation between horrible/great parents and kids with mental illness or behavior problems is MUCH weaker than you think. Common sense doesn't actually get you very far in that regard.

Blaming parents is a good way to make sure that we keep having people die for stupid reasons.
 
Which is exactly the stigma that keeps families like this isolated and avoiding professional (OUR!) help. :(

I'm a bit disturbed at the "blame the parents" tone that's developing here...

A lot of parents are horrible. A lot of parents are great. The correlation between horrible/great parents and kids with mental illness or behavior problems is MUCH weaker than you think. Common sense doesn't actually get you very far in that regard.

Blaming parents is a good way to make sure that we keep having people die for stupid reasons.

My (limited) experience has been that children with mental illness often DO have not-so-great parents...but it's often because the parents themselves are struggling with mental illness, not simply because they are "bad parents."

Blaming parents for sucking is not the best way to approach this. What we need is destigmatization, more research, more psychiatrists and other mental health workers, and a society that doesn't turn a blind eye to the suffering of others.

I am actually of the opinion (and that's all it is, I have no facts to back up this statement), that the prevalence of mental illness (especially MDD and anxiety) is actually FAR greater than studies have suggested largely due to fears of stigma vs some internal fear that mental illness makes you somehow a "weak" or "broken" person. Even amongst our own board we discourage people (usually residency applicants) from disclosing their own mental illness for fear of possible retribution. How many other physicians hide the fact that they currently or have suffered from depression, anxiety, BPD, personality disorders, PTSD, substance use, etc? I think we'd all be shocked at the true numbers if everyone felt free to say so without fear of being judged for it.
 
I don't think we should automatically "blame parents", but nor do I think we should turn a blind eye to family dynamics that are often less than ideal and likely contributory just to avoid the charge of blaming parents. It's not about finding someone to point a finger at. It's about understanding what is going on so one can address it most effectively.
 
My (limited) experience has been that children with mental illness often DO have not-so-great parents..
Yes, and NON mentally ill children often have not-so-great parents. And mentally ill children often have great parents. And non-mentally ill children often have great parents. So that really gets us nothing before they come in the door.

Looking at a mentally ill child and assuming bad parenting isn't just bad psychiatry, it's bad medicine. It's making assumptions based on stereotypes without the necessary data. We don't bury as many of our mistakes as other fields in medicine, but we can certainly help ruin lives.

Making assumptions about a parent based on a blog post is sloppy. Basing assumptions on demographic data like the fact that she's a single mom with four kids is bad judgment. Was she a victim of domestic violence? Was she in an unloving marriage? Is she a widow? We don't know. So hearing make people make inferences based on that one data point is kinda scary.

Yeesh... This is one of those times I'm glad more laymen don't come to this board. If I was a parent of a mentally ill or disturbed child, this discussion would definitely not encourage me to seek help from psychiatry.
 
Yes, and NON mentally ill children often have not-so-great parents. And mentally ill children often have great parents. And non-mentally ill children often have great parents. So that really gets us nothing before they come in the door.

Looking at a mentally ill child and assuming bad parenting isn't just bad psychiatry, it's bad medicine. It's making assumptions based on stereotypes without the necessary data. We don't bury as many of our mistakes as other fields in medicine, but we can certainly help ruin lives.

Making assumptions about a parent based on a blog post is sloppy. Basing assumptions on demographic data like the fact that she's a single mom with four kids is bad judgment. Was she a victim of domestic violence? Was she in an unloving marriage? Is she a widow? We don't know. So hearing make people make inferences based on that one data point is kinda scary.

Yeesh... This is one of those times I'm glad more laymen don't come to this board. If I was a parent of a mentally ill or disturbed child, this discussion would definitely not encourage me to seek help from psychiatry.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Most of y'all are also biased in that your experiences have mainly been either inpatient in an academic setting or even outpatient in an academic setting which systematically pull higher rates of folks on medical assistance who are lower functioning. If you institutionally select patients from a low functioning setting, that bias is going to be reinforced. I'm certainly not saying that parents aren't a huge part of child and adolescent psychiatry and that there aren't parenting issues to address. But generally the way a lot of non-child psychiatrists (and even some child psychiatrists) approach families is much less helpful than it could be. If you don't believe in a family, it's a lot harder to believe in a kid. Not to get too dialectical, but most families really are doing the best they can, even if that best doesn't seem very good.
 
I was only trying to point out that there is a genetic component to many mental illnesses, and we often see that reflected in the parents of mentally ill patients. But, agreed that we shouldn't assume it.

Anyone hear Obama's comment? "the people of this country need access to mental health care at least as easy as access to a gun."

Ooh.
 
Making assumptions about a parent based on a blog post is sloppy. Basing assumptions on demographic data like the fact that she's a single mom with four kids is bad judgment. Was she a victim of domestic violence? Was she in an unloving marriage? Is she a widow? We don't know. So hearing make people make inferences based on that one data point is kinda scary.

I personally believe revealing this level of personal detail on a mommy blog (or maybe even just having a mommy blog?) demonizing her son while glorifying herself is sufficient grounds to judge this woman. But I think the real concern is the vaguely unsettling message I got, that mental illness is inherently terrifying, and the solution is more funding... so we can have more facilities to indefinitely retain potential mass murderers? I'd be more interested to read about what was happening WHILE he was in the hospital, her experience with family meetings, what parts of the treatment worked, what didn't, what needed to be addressed. Instead, she brought him in and... fast forward to discharge... disappointed. But that wouldn't be directly relevant to Sandy Hook, and likely wouldn't have gone this viral.

Anyway...
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103840/who-to-blame
 
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