I am seriously terrified :-(

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janetlover04

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  1. Pre-Medical
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Hi!

I hope that all is well and that this message reaches everyone in good health and spirits. I understand that this message is very long. I will highlight some important facts for those looking to save time in reading. Any advice that is offered will be sincerely appreciate. If you have any additional questions about what I have written, just ask and I will provide it. I am just feeling very low right now and need all the help and advice that can be offered.

I made a thread about a year ago about what I am doing in terms of pre-med but I will post all details here as well. I graduated from one of the top 20 undergraduate colleges in the US about a year and a half ago with a 2.8 gpa. I struggled my freshman year due to a variety of health problems and failed two courses, earned 2 C's, as well as a D in another. I also dropped a course but it did not show up on my academic transcript at all. After this year, I technically did not have enough credits to continue as a sophmore, but I wrote a letter to the academic team and they agreed to allow me to stay at the school while being placed on academic probation.

Using my academic probation as a motivator, I put all of my efforts into making the best grades possible. At the end of my sophmore year I raised my GPA considerably. During the first semester of my sophmore year I took only the required amount of courses as I did not want to overload myself. The second semester, I discovered I would have to take an extra course every single semester starting that semester in order to graduate on time. With my newly founded confidence, and all of the help/work I had done to improve my health issues, I managed to earn mostly A's with a couple of B's sprinkled in.

At the beginning of my Junior year I was incredibly interested in studying abroad. While meeting with the study abroad office, I was advised that my GPA was not high enough to be considered for study abroad. After some careful calculations we discovered that if I worked hard throughout the entire semester and was able to maintain the same grades I earned during my sophmore year, I could raise my GPA high enough to go. Well, that is exactly what I did. I had another semester of mostly A's and a B or two (as well as taking an extra class--so a heavy courseload) and was granted permission to study abroad which was one of the most stimulating experiences of my life. It was this experience that cemented my interest in applying for medical school.

During my senior year my grades were mediocre. A range of A's, B's, and C's. There was a lot of racial tension in the departments of one of my majors (I double majored) and I was greatly affected. Every single one of my C's from senior year came from that department. Admittedly, I could have done much better. I understand that in retrospect. At the time, due to the issues that were being faced as students of color in this department, everything was difficult and I was just happy to receive the C's. I graduated with a 2.8 GPA.

After graduating I began a job working on the non-profit side of a pharmaceutical company as a part-time employee. In the fall I began an informal postbac program, in addition to working ~30 hours a week. I was incredibly optimistic to begin a new, and hopefully final road to medical school. I jumped headfirst into my pre-med coursework by taking many courses my first semester. I was enrolled in 6 courses, in addition to working many hours, and overwhelmed. At the end of the semester I was admitted to the hospital for about a week due to some serious health complications. I finished that semester with 1 A, 3 B's, and 2 C's. I was very disappointed but also motivated to continue. During the second semester, things remained consistent. I was overworked, taking too many classes, and my grades remained the same.

About halfway through this current semester I came to the realization that I simply could not work and be successful in my courses. I was still working at the pharmaceutical company but had switched departments. In comparison to the last department, this new one was a lot more stressful, not as forgiving or understanding of my school schedule, expected me to work long hours even though I was only a part time employee (eg- working 6 days a week and well over my 32 hour part time limit), and continuously piled more and more work on my already heavy load. I began to notice reoccurring health issues that I suffered from my freshman year of undergrad/end of my first semester of postbac. This is when I decided to put my 2 weeks notice in.

Since I have quit my job, I have worked very hard to try to raise my grades in my postbac program. While I have done quite a bit of damage control, sadly it doesn't seem like enough. I took 6 courses again this semester. I am quite positive that I will receive 2 A's, I am not very hopeful for the rest of the 4 courses. I still have 3 finals left to complete.

My academic advisor and I have decided that even though I will be finished with the required pre-med coursework next semester, I should wait until 2015 to submit my application. By doing this, I will allow myself extra time to take upper level science courses, study for the MCAT (which I plan to take a Kaplan MCAT course for assistance), as well as getting in more shadowing/volunteer opportunities. Therefore, I technically have exactly 1.5 years left in my postbac program to turn things around.

Aside from grades, I have a variety of accomplishments. These range from receiving numerous grants, conducting medical research in another country for an extended amount of time, becoming fluent in another language, presenting some of my undergraduate work in a conference, being published, acting as president of two organizations on campus, simply being an active member of many others and even starting my own organization on campus. I have lots of hours shadowing doctors, volunteering, and will begin an ED scribe job next year. I am an URM, first generation college student, that comes from a economically disadvantaged background. Not that this is an excuse for my poor academic performance, but I would argue that it did have a factor.

At this point, I believe I have addressed all of my major issues that were causing me to fail academically (the stressors of my job, health issues, taking too many classes at once, not devoting enough time to studying, not utilizing office hours) and am ready to change them to guarantee continued success. I am just worried if it is at all too late for me. :-(

With all of that being said, do I even have a shot at medical school? Is it realistic for me to even continue with my postbac program with hopes of being accepted to medical school (MD or DO)? Or have a completely destroyed my only dream of going to medical school?

Feedback would be appreciated. Again, if you have any additional questions that you believe may assist with giving feedback I will be more than happy to answer. Thank you very much.
 
Unfortunately, I do not think a 2.8 will fly with any medical schools, but if you take a master's program and do exceptionally well, I think you can revive your chances.

However, I would consider a new career path. Medical school is already a gamble, and putting in more time to perhaps do poorly (judging from your track record; I mean no offense) would be a tragic waste of your time and money. Even IF you did very well in a masters program, your acceptance into a medical school is not certain. I graduated with a 3.9 and 36 MCAT and got rejected from 100% of the schools I applied to my first round.

I'm sorry that you're in this position, and unfortunately none of your current choices are ideal. Good luck!
 
I'm sure you'd have a shot if you tirelessly worked towards it for a significant period of time coupled with a strong MCAT, but honestly what I see is a pattern of poor decisions and inability to learn from them. The margin of error for you going forward is literally zero, regardless of cause. No getting sick, no family emergencies, no nothing that can affect your academic performance. I would encourage you to think long and hard about your career options before going all-in. Though it's not completely out of the question yet, you have a strong risk for ending up in your mid-late 20s with nothing to show for yourself except loans and a pile of rejections.
 
Unfortunately, I do not think a 2.8 will fly with any medical schools, but if you take a master's program and do exceptionally well, I think you can revive your chances.

However, I would consider a new career path. Medical school is already a gamble, and putting in more time to perhaps do poorly (judging from your track record; I mean no offense) would be a tragic waste of your time and money. Even IF you did very well in a masters program, your acceptance into a medical school is not certain. I graduated with a 3.9 and 36 MCAT and got rejected from 100% of the schools I applied to my first round.

I'm sorry that you're in this position, and unfortunately none of your current choices are ideal. Good luck!

Thanks for your reply. I understand that a 2.8 will not be great for medical school which is why I decided to do a postbac program. At this point I'm willing to do anything it takes to get in. I did some calculations and if I did well for the next 1.5 years in my science courses (making A's and just a couple B's) I can raise my postbac gpa to a 3.5 and my cumulative gpa to a 3.1. Is that not good enough?
 
I'm sure you'd have a shot if you tirelessly worked towards it for a significant period of time coupled with a strong MCAT, but honestly what I see is a pattern of poor decisions and inability to learn from them. The margin of error for you going forward is literally zero, regardless of cause. No getting sick, no family emergencies, no nothing that can affect your academic performance. I would encourage you to think long and hard about your career options before going all-in. Though it's not completely out of the question yet, you have a strong risk for ending up in your mid-late 20s with nothing to show for yourself except loans and a pile of rejections.

What do you mean by poor decisions and an inability to learn from them?
 
Thanks for your reply. I understand that a 2.8 will not be great for medical school which is why I decided to do a postbac program. At this point I'm willing to do anything it takes to get in. I did some calculations and if I did well for the next 1.5 years in my science courses (making A's and just a couple B's) I can raise my postbac gpa to a 3.5 and my cumulative gpa to a 3.1. Is that not good enough?

If you do well in MCAT, getting accepted to DO programs might be within your reach. Depending on how you do with post bacc for the next 1.5 years, low- and mid-tier MD programs might be possible as well.

As you said, you seem to have a unique background and ECs like scribe, publication, and various leadership experiences. The only issue seems to be your stats. I am not sure whether you can do a post bacc for more than 2 years, but I would do everything I can to get A's. You need to tell yourself that even B's are not acceptable, if you are really serious with applying to MD programs. If you can pull this off, there should be schools that appreciate your academic growth over the years.
 
What do you mean by poor decisions and an inability to learn from them?
For instance you got a sub-3.0 GPA in your first postbac semester yet you put yourself in a position where by your own report you have it seems at most 2 As out of 6 classes. That's poor judgement my friend. It's not irrecoverable but seriously your margin of error is pretty much nonexistent.
 
You have an issue where something always seems to come up...if you can't control your outcomes better you need to give up. MD is not happening, maybe a DO slot with strategic retakes if you test well but or real.....you must change everything about how you approach school if this is to be a possibility
 
Need some more data points.

  • Which of these are you? [African-American, Native American, or Latina (if Latina, could you specify country of origin]
  • What are you realistically aiming for the MCAT? (Please don't say 38+)
 
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I graduated with a 3.9 and 36 MCAT and got rejected from 100% of the schools I applied to my first round.

Amen, brother (or sister!).
 
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Need some more data points.

  • Which of these are you? [African-American, Native American, or Latina (if Latina, could you specify country of origin]
  • What are you realistically aiming for the MCAT? (Please don't say 38+)

I am African American. I am aiming for between a 30-35 on the MCAT.
 
So basically, unlike a lot of posters here, I think you have a shot at lower-tier MD schools if you can hit 3.1 sGPA, 3.1 cGPA, 33 - 35 MCAT (balanced). Definitely apply to HBC's like Meharry, Morehouse, etc in addition to places like NYMC, GWU. Consider moving to Texas, Florida, or South Carolina to further improve your MD odds among their relatively less competitive state schools. Apply to DO as well.

As far as past mistakes, I don't want to even ask about the racial politics involving your senior year grades. Let me just say that given the climate at most universities, I have a really hard time believing any professors would target African American students due to race. That's like the equivalent of career suicide. If I were you, I would just not mention it at all in your app cycle on applications or interviews. It's just an unpleasant topic bound to produce unpleasant feelings among your evaluators.

The other mistake: taking 6 courses with a near full-time job! That's just crazy... for anyone. Maybe two courses with 30 hours per week, but even that's a stretch.

Peace out.
 
So basically, unlike a lot of posters here, I think you have a shot at lower-tier MD schools if you can hit 3.1 sGPA, 3.1 cGPA, 33 - 35 MCAT (balanced). Definitely apply to HBC's like Meharry, Morehouse, etc in addition to places like NYMC, GWU. Consider moving to Texas, Florida, or South Carolina to further improve your MD odds among their relatively less competitive state schools. Apply to DO as well.

As far as past mistakes, I don't want to even ask about the racial politics involving your senior year grades. Let me just say that given the climate at most universities, I have a really hard time believing any professors would target African American students due to race. That's like the equivalent of career suicide. If I were you, I would just not mention it at all in your app cycle on applications or interviews. It's just an unpleasant topic bound to produce unpleasant feelings among your evaluators.

The other mistake: taking 6 courses with a near full-time job! That's just crazy... for anyone. Maybe two courses with 30 hours per week, but even that's a stretch.

Peace out.


Thank you for your honest advice. I am going to continue on my path and not give up quite yet. I have been reading the re-applicants forum and it is giving me a great deal of hope. I really do not mind which medical school I go to, as long as I get in. Yes I do admit that I made many mistakes in terms of work and my course load. I would give anything to take that back. I honestly did not have very much guidance or family support. Since neither of my parents went to college, they put an intense amount of pressure on me to work after graduation in addition to trying to take some of the most difficult courses in my postbac program. They just did not understand what I was going through, but I do not blame them. They were giving me the best advice that they knew to be true.

Senior year, grades, and the racial conflicts. Well to sum it up I immediately put that entire situation behind me the moment I walked across the stage. I actually haven't brought it up since graduating at all. I definitely do not plan to mention it at all during the application process AT ALL. If asked about senior year, I will just place the blame on myself and roll with the punches. I am much more mature and self-reflecting now and can not only realize when I have made a mistake but understand the mistake/learn from it. That is exactly what I am attempting to do now.
 
Not sure why people are tossing in the towel on your behalf. You have ~65% chance of acceptance if you can get a 30 on the MCAT and in the ~40%s if you get a 28 or 29. Your odds are probably actually even better than that at an HBC.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/2012factstable25-2.pdf

A white first-generation college student from a socioeconomically disadvantaged background (maybe your next door neighbor?) with a 2.8/30 has a ~21% chance of acceptance and about 10% if they don't top 30. Even worse odds for an Asian with the same numbers who grew up on the same block.
 
If you do well in MCAT, getting accepted to DO programs might be within your reach. Depending on how you do with post bacc for the next 1.5 years, low- and mid-tier MD programs might be possible as well.

As you said, you seem to have a unique background and ECs like scribe, publication, and various leadership experiences. The only issue seems to be your stats. I am not sure whether you can do a post bacc for more than 2 years, but I would do everything I can to get A's. You need to tell yourself that even B's are not acceptable, if you are really serious with applying to MD programs. If you can pull this off, there should be schools that appreciate your academic growth over the years.


Thank you very much for your input. I appreciate your help! Yes, the only issue that I seem to be able to find with my application will be my GPA. Even though it will not be the most competitive, I believe that other aspects of my application are going to shine bright enough to outweigh the GPA. Or at least I hope. In terms of EC, leadership activities, research, jobs held, my dedication to medicine, letters of recommendation, shadowing and volunteering hours I believe that I am fine. Even though I have yet to take my MCAT, I will be going into the exam with the knowledge that my GPA is not the best, so I will work extra hard to score the highest possible. Basically, I want to do anything I possibly can to offset the GPA. I am very open to DO schools and do not feel as if I need to be at a top 25 medical school at all. I am perfectly fine attending my state medical school. I just want to go to medical school PERIOD.
 
Not sure why people are tossing in the towel on your behalf. You have ~65% chance of acceptance if you can get a 30 on the MCAT and in the ~40%s if you get a 28 or 29. Your odds are probably actually even better than that at an HBC.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321514/data/2012factstable25-2.pdf

A white first-generation college student from a socioeconomically disadvantaged background (maybe your next door neighbor?) with a 2.8/30 has a ~21% chance of acceptance and about 10% if they don't top 30. Even worse odds for an Asian with the same numbers who grew up on the same block.

Oh wow! Thanks for that information that you posted in the link. That is a great motivator just knowing that I still have a decent shot at being accepted even with a 2.8 (even though I am positive that by the time I apply for medical school I will have risen my cGPA much higher than that). I am not sure why so many are telling me to give up either, but I appreciate you for giving me some sort of hope.
 
Considering you came from a top-20 and your extensive ECs, I think if you get an excellent MCAT, you are definitely in the running for some good MD schools. On that chart, those with a 33+ have a 90% chance of being accepted - very good odds. However, keep in mind only 10 people with a 2.8 got an MCAT in this range. If you are really serious about this career path and have truly changed your study skills, you will become a doctor. Your uncertainty about 4/6 of your current courses is worrisome; don't carry this mindset, you need to be confident that you can and will get As, because med school is definitely not out of the picture. Stop thinking about all the factors that caused/ can cause you to fail, and start thinking about what you can do to succeed. It won't be easy, but you can do this 🙂
 
I am African American. I am aiming for between a 30-35 on the MCAT.

You do have the URM thing going for you, so yes, acceptance is possible even though your GPA is pretty low even if you receive URM consideration. Your chances would be higher if you could bring your GPA above 3.0 for both cumulative and science GPAs. Keep in mind that every year people are accepted to medical school with GPAs of less than 3.0s but the odds are stacked against you, and I would consider admission with those current or similar stats nothing shy of a minor miracle. But all hope is not lost.

My advice would be to bust butt and make at least a 3.8+ GPA or higher in your remaining coursework. You may even need to go for a second bachelor's degree to bring up your GPA or extend out your post bacc. Alternatively, assuming a GPA of greater than 3.0 (and the higher, the better), a SMP may be worthy of consideration. If you can get your GPA above a 3.0 and score a 30+ on the MCAT (maybe slightly lower), you'll have a shot.

Edited to add: The biggest concern I see is mediocre performance in the beginning of your post bacc, which may lead many adcoms to have concerns about your ability to handle the rigor of medical school even though the other issues have presumably resolved themselves. There are three variables that you can help you out here:

1. Time - the farther you are away from your problem grades, the better, especially if you excel in subsequent coursework;

2. MCAT - a strong MCAT score can help out tremendously showing that you can handle the rigor of science curriculum; and

3. Increased GPA.
 
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