I am SO TIRED of NURSES

[phospho]

I think that from the viewpoint of a med student, nurses tend to fall in one of a few set categories. Note: These are all actual quotes directed at me at one point or another.

1: Selective Vision Nurse. She has a peculiar condition where she cannot see nor hear med students. My best guess is, her thalamus automatically sorts incoming sensory input and filters out anything emenating from a person in a short white coat.
Favorite Quote: (right after the med student rattles off low HCT, etc numbers to her face) "Does anyone know if the patient is anemic? Hello?"

2: Pissed-Off-At-The-World Nurse. She hates her job or she hates her life (or both) so she finds the easiest target to project her rage onto. That would be you, the hapless med student.
Favorite Quote: (totally random and out of the blue) "I thought you should know that dealing with med students is the least important part of my job."

3: The Uses-Med-Students-As-Scut-Monkeys Nurse. This one does not need much explanation.
Favorite Quote: "Thank God you're here. You can assist on this lap chole while I go get caught up on paperwork."

4: The Comrade. This nurse sees the med student as a fellow enlisted soldier in the trenches, doing the "real work" while the aloof doctors get all the credit. (note: she probably has a point.)
Favorite Quote: "Don't mind him when he goes off on a tantrum like that. We're the ones keeping him out of trouble."

5: She Who Eats the Young. Unlike Pissed-Off-At-The-World Nurse, she has no real motivation for her evil ways... she just enjoys picking on med students and nurse trainees.
Favorite Quote: "Just, just get out of the way, ok? You don't know what you're doing. Just go."

6: The Good Nurse. Yes, she exists, despite rumors to the contrary. She is just as benevolant to us newbies as she is to the patients. You have to catch yourself from not calling her "mom."
Favorite Quote: "Why don't you lie down for an hour or so? You are exhausted. I got this."

... anyway, RNs are often the most-valuable and least-appreciated members of the healthcare team. Do what you can to make her life easier and she will usually try to make your life easier. Unless, of course, she is nurse #5 from above.

awesome post, and i love your avatar!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ghip]

why didn't you just tell the attending that the nurse didn't want to put the order in for you? being that you're the messenger, you're pretty much blameless.

"I'm sorry Dr. Attending, but the nurses here don't like me, so they won't put that order in."

You're going to get a great eval from that guy.

 

[Dr JPH]

3: The Uses-Med-Students-As-Scut-Monkeys Nurse. This one does not need much explanation.
Favorite Quote: "Thank God you're here. You can assist on this lap chole while I go get caught up on paperwork."

Personally I wouldnt consider scrubbing in on a lap chole to be scut!

The paperwork on the other hand...

 

[psychRN]

It's great to read these posts after running into a jerk of a doctor today who had a "god" complex. Somehow it kinda feels even now No just kidding. When I become a doc, I will remember these days and treat nurses like the valuable assets that they are. And techs, cna's, and housekeepers, etc.

 

[McGillGrad]

Disclaimer: I have yet to have a problem w/ a nurse, a ward secretary made a snide comment at my expense the other day but I just laughed in her face. Then I went and had some coffee. With half-and-half. Boo-yah.

I especially like the "Boo-yah" at the end

 

[tr]

1: Selective Vision Nurse...
Favorite Quote: (right after the med student rattles off low HCT, etc numbers to her face) "Does anyone know if the patient is anemic? Hello?"

Is it possible she did not know the normal range for Hct, or did not understand that low Hct = anemia?
I have actually been pretty surprised at what nurses do not know. I've had several of them ask me whether a given lab value was off or not, and if so what that meant. I've also had them ask me to explain a patient's condition to them.

And actually I seem to have had the total opposite experience of most people here, in that a lot of the nurses are pretty deferential to the med student - weirdly so, IMHO. I don't even see why they are deferential to the doctors (why isn't it just 'you do your job, I'll do mine'?); but to a med student??

E.g., yesterday a nurse came in while I was with a patient and asked "Who are you? Are you PT?" in a sort of demanding tone. I said I was a med student and she went all soft and smiley and said, "Oh, all right then," and backed off. Er?

I have also had nurses mistake me for a doctor. One of them for sure didn't know the coat code; maybe she was new. I don't know what was up with the rest of them. Maybe they just default to "doctor" if they don't know the person's name.

Of course I have encountered plenty of nasty support staff; but often those staff members are actually also nasty to the residents.

 

[pillowhead]

It really just seems totally hospital dependent. The ivory tower university hospital nurses can be a little snooty but generally just seem to ignore students. The county hospital nurses can be the scariest and meanest (and least competent), but some can also be quite nice and helpful. VA nurses seem clueless ("we don't draw blood. we're nurses." WTF?) but not mean. The best nurses I've encountered are ICU nurses (the exception being county hospital ICU nurses) and those at the pediatric hospitals. Simply great at what they do and always nice.

 

[Shodddy18]

In my experience the nurses I have worked with have been amazingly helpful. I guess if you slap a smile on your face, use manners, dont act like you are somehow superior, and acknowledge that there is a lot you can learn from them you may have a better experience.

 

[Paws]

So far, the nurses, cna's and OR techs are saving my butt, and my rapidly diminishing spirit. I feel overwhelmed and completely clueless about what I am doing, and it's the staff that have been kind and friendly. I used to do admin work here and there and so I have been that person answering the phone or making copies or whatever. Some people have been really harsh and rough, but mostly docs. One OR tech was trying to boss me around today, which was weird. I just ignored her. Overall, nurses have been great to me. I really need them and so I try my best to get along with them. They are like gold to me, and they also make me feel sane on a hectic hospital floor.

 

[Dr JPH]

In my experience the nurses I have worked with have been amazingly helpful. I guess if you slap a smile on your face, use manners, dont act like you are somehow superior, and acknowledge that there is a lot you can learn from them you may have a better experience.

You learn quick young grasshopper.

 

[efex101]

All the nursing staff/RT/PT/etc have been nothing but helpful in my case...of course I have only done peds and now I am in surgery. I do get the sense that a few OR techs hate medical students by the way they look at us....other than that no issues. I think that "some" folks are just downright hateful and no matter how smiley you are and nice etc...some will be anal sphincters to avoid.

 

[RuralMedicine]

Physicians orders must be signed by a physician. You are not a physician yet, so you cannot write orders. Well, yeah you can write "orders," but until they're signed by a licensed physician, no nurse worth his/her salt is going to take those orders off. Do you have any idea what the fallout would be if a medical student wrote orders that resulted in an error? The nurse who took off those orders wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and I doubt that any attending/student would back the nurse up.

Sorry, this is not about nurses hating med students. This is about pt. safety and professional liability. I'm not hanging my license and career on a student--sorry. I like med students, I will help med students however I can, but I do not take orders from them. Period.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting but "put these orders on the chart and tell the nurse" it sounds like the physician wrote (or at least co-signed) the orders and handed them to the medical student to carry to the unit and asked the student to let the nurse know that there were orders on the chart. If I'm misinterpreting this then ignore my point but since they were later taken off without the resident returning to write them from what he's saying I hope I'm not.

 

[fab4fan]

I didn't get the impression they were co-signed at the time they were given to the nursing staff, and neither did some others here. If they were co-signed then they should have been taken off, but not necessarily immediately. If they were STAT, sure. Otherwise, they're transcribed by priority.

 

[Dunce]

Disclaimer: I have yet to have a problem w/ a nurse, a ward secretary made a snide comment at my expense the other day but I just laughed in her face. Then I went and had some coffee. With half-and-half. Boo-yah.

I especially like the "Boo-yah" at the end

hahaha
that phrase is way underused

I am going to start trying to work it in to my everyday lingo to spice things up.

 

[Beau Geste]

It's probably a really bad sign when the nurses are tired of you!

 

[Dunce]

E.g., yesterday a nurse came in while I was with a patient and asked "Who are you? Are you PT?" in a sort of demanding tone. I said I was a med student and she went all soft and smiley and said, "Oh, all right then," and backed off. Er?

I have also had nurses mistake me for a doctor. One of them for sure didn't know the coat code; maybe she was new. I don't know what was up with the rest of them. Maybe they just default to "doctor" if they don't know the person's name.

I keep getting similar experiences and it can be a bit awkward actually. I just sort of brush it off but in my head I'm thinking, "Damn, lady, if you only knew how clueless I was you wouldn't even come close to calling me doctor. And you definitely wouldn't ask me to start that IV I just watched you fail to start."

 

[fang]

In my experience the nurses I have worked with have been amazingly helpful. I guess if you slap a smile on your face, use manners, dont act like you are somehow superior, and acknowledge that there is a lot you can learn from them you may have a better experience.

This is not true-- there are people in any field who, no matter now pleasant and respectful you behave, will be angry and rude because 1) they're having a bad day for some unrelated reason and 2) you're an easy target.

Here are a few of my examples:
(I'm listing these as entertainment, but I should say that these people are the exception, not the rule.)

1. On a ward rotation a nurse chewed me out for about 10 minutes, in front of another medical student, for helping a patient get to the bathroom -- "you're not trained for that!! He could have fallen!! How do you know he was safe to get out of bed?? I should write this up as a safety hazard!!" Luckily, I made it down the hall to the conference room to cry afterward without anyone noticing, and came back to ask a few more questions for the H&P. As I was leaving, the pt had to go to the bathroom again, so I went to find a nurse outside. The shift had changed and it was a new person... as she was walking into the pt's room, I heard her say to the CNA, "lazy medical students-- why didn't she just help him to the bathroom??" True story!!!

2. On surgery, a patient had both hep C and HIV. The scrub nurse kept throwing bloody sponges into one of 3 buckets around the table, and seemed to be purposefully trying to spash me. I'd move away from one bucket, and she'd aim at another right next to where I was standing. After the resident glared at her, she stopped, but not before I had a fair amount of blood on my scrubs. I was trying to stand so my legs didn't touch it because I was worried about scratches from walking through a hedge a few days before. I never knew who the nurse was, and luckily never ran into her again.

3. This one's not so dramatic-- a nurse on the MICU was determined to act affronted no matter what I did. She told me not to use the computer by the pt's bed, so I used one down the hall. When I went to write down the pt's vitals and meds the next AM, she told me I was taking too long (yes, it takes me forever to comb through those #'s), so the next day I took out the med sheet to copy it in the copier. Of course she then told me that sheet could never be away from the pt's room. In addition, she would say things to the pt and his family like "we don't really need to do all these finger sticks you know, your blood sugar is just fine. The Dr's just haven't figured that out yet". In reality the pt had high fasting sugars, and we were documenting them for a day to make a decision about an insulin gtt. I started rounding on that pt at 6 AM so I could work with the night nurse instead.

So there are a few examples... I'm sure a nursing forum would have some good stories about being mistreated by doctors. When you work with a lot of different people, some of them are just bound to have bad character.

 

[ocean11]

This is not true-- there are people in any field who, no matter now pleasant and respectful you behave, will be angry and rude because 1) they're having a bad day for some unrelated reason and 2) you're an easy target.

Here are a few of my examples:
(I'm listing these as entertainment, but I should say that these people are the exception, not the rule.)

1. On a ward rotation a nurse chewed me out for about 10 minutes, in front of another medical student, for helping a patient get to the bathroom -- "you're not trained for that!! He could have fallen!! How do you know he was safe to get out of bed?? I should write this up as a safety hazard!!" Luckily, I made it down the hall to the conference room to cry afterward without anyone noticing, and came back to ask a few more questions for the H&P. As I was leaving, the pt had to go to the bathroom again, so I went to find a nurse outside. The shift had changed and it was a new person... as she was walking into the pt's room, I heard her say to the CNA, "lazy medical students-- why didn't she just help him to the bathroom??" True story!!!

2. On surgery, a patient had both hep C and HIV. The scrub nurse kept throwing bloody sponges into one of 3 buckets around the table, and seemed to be purposefully trying to spash me. I'd move away from one bucket, and she'd aim at another right next to where I was standing. After the resident glared at her, she stopped, but not before I had a fair amount of blood on my scrubs. I was trying to stand so my legs didn't touch it because I was worried about scratches from walking through a hedge a few days before. I never knew who the nurse was, and luckily never ran into her again.

3. This one's not so dramatic-- a nurse on the MICU was determined to act affronted no matter what I did. She told me not to use the computer by the pt's bed, so I used one down the hall. When I went to write down the pt's vitals and meds the next AM, she told me I was taking too long (yes, it takes me forever to comb through those #'s), so the next day I took out the med sheet to copy it in the copier. Of course she then told me that sheet could never be away from the pt's room. In addition, she would say things to the pt and his family like "we don't really need to do all these finger sticks you know, your blood sugar is just fine. The Dr's just haven't figured that out yet". In reality the pt had high fasting sugars, and we were documenting them for a day to make a decision about an insulin gtt. I started rounding on that pt at 6 AM so I could work with the night nurse instead.

So there are a few examples... I'm sure a nursing forum would have some good stories about being mistreated by doctors. When you work with a lot of different people, some of them are just bound to have bad character.

Dude that nurse #2 sounds like a complete PSYCHO BIATCH!!!!!! the rest sound awful as well.... do PM me and tell me what hospital to stay away from... especially if its in Illinois.....

GOod Luck!

 

[LovelyRita]

1. On a ward rotation a nurse chewed me out for about 10 minutes, in front of another medical student, for helping a patient get to the bathroom -- "you're not trained for that!! He could have fallen!! How do you know he was safe to get out of bed?? I should write this up as a safety hazard!!" Luckily, I made it down the hall to the conference room to cry afterward without anyone noticing, and came back to ask a few more questions for the H&P. As I was leaving, the pt had to go to the bathroom again, so I went to find a nurse outside. The shift had changed and it was a new person... as she was walking into the pt's room, I heard her say to the CNA, "lazy medical students-- why didn't she just help him to the bathroom??" True story!!!

The bolded part happened to me in 4th year. It resulted in a confrontation at the ED nursing station in front of everyone where amongst the silenced observers of my smackdown my words were "I'M SORRY I ASKED YOU TO HELP THE PATIENT TO THE BATHROOM." I looked over, and the attending was looking at me. Once the crowd broke up he said, "Good for you for standing up for yourself".

 

[velo]

god I'm glad I don't work at these hospitals...anyone else have more or less good experiences so far?

 

[GoofyDoc]

In my experience the nurses I have worked with have been amazingly helpful. I guess if you slap a smile on your face, use manners, dont act like you are somehow superior, and acknowledge that there is a lot you can learn from them you may have a better experience.

Unfortunately, I also strongly disagree with this. Some people will be just get meaner the nicer you are to them. The nurses I work with now are tolerable to great. In med school though, the nurses at our county hospital were legendary for their nastiness. I had to be so careful when dealing with them it was insane. I remember this particular incident when I was going to ask a nurse a question on my outpatient peds rotation. I kept thinking about the most polite way to approach her so that I wouldn't accidentally piss her off. So after much thought I asked her "Ma'am, can you please...." Before the question was completely out of my mouth I became the subject of a violent fury - "DON'T CALL ME MA'AM!! MY NAME IS NURSE!!! YOU CALL ME NURSE!!!" - and promptly turned her back on me and walked away.

 

[tr]

god I'm glad I don't work at these hospitals...anyone else have more or less good experiences so far?

Copy that. Most people have been pretty nice to me so far. Pretty much all interactions have fallen within the bounds of normal.

 

[caffeinefree08]

My worst experience was with a tech, but it fits in here so I decided to add it after all. I was performing my first bone marrow biopsy with a fellow, and I, while I had seen one performed before, doing it was alot more nerve-wracking that the single one I had seen before (yes, see on, do one, teach one). I met the tech before the procedure and she completely refused to interact with me, unaware that I was performing the procedure. Things weren't going so well because the patient had a generous amount of junk in the trunk and part way through we had to start over and give her more lidocaine with a longer needle. My intern came while I was changing the needles and the fellow reached across me and broke my sterile field - which my intern announced, and I had to reglove.

At this point, we were ready to get the aspirate, and my fellow countinued crossing over me and stopped giving me instructions. So when I drew up the aspirate and handed it to the tech, I had drawn 10 drops of blood, instead of the 5 she wanted. The fellow started giving me instructions again, and while I was forcing an even bigger need into the bone marrow, the tech started whining to my intern about what a horrible job I was doing.

She went on for a while about how med students never do things the way she wants them, and that they don't seem to appreciate her 'constructive' comments. Really? I'm sure the patient appreciates her opinion this very second while I have the biopsy needle inside the bone. And surely that time that I approached the tech and tried to talk to her wasn't in my imagination.

Even more, she was so busy complaining to the intern that neither of them noticed the fellow broke the sterile field TWICE more. I finished the biopsy w/o further incident. I knew I wasn't allowed to complain to anyone about the procedure - my fellow for not walking me through the procedure and breaking sterile field, my intern for allowing the tech to behave unprofessionally, or the tech for just being a b*tch.

I did feel better when I saw the tech leave the room and go into the hall, the nurses parted like the red sea in that hallway when they saw her. Nurses are smart; they've worked with that harpy more that I ever will.

 

[Shodddy18]

Unfortunately, I also strongly disagree with this. Some people will be just get meaner the nicer you are to them. The nurses I work with now are tolerable to great. In med school though, the nurses at our county hospital were legendary for their nastiness. I had to be so careful when dealing with them it was insane. I remember this particular incident when I was going to ask a nurse a question on my outpatient peds rotation. I kept thinking about the most polite way to approach her so that I wouldn't accidentally piss her off. So after much thought I asked her "Ma'am, can you please...." Before the question was completely out of my mouth I became the subject of a violent fury - "DON'T CALL ME MA'AM!! MY NAME IS NURSE!!! YOU CALL ME NURSE!!!" - and promptly turned her back on me and walked away.

Well I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. Some people are just like that. You have to consider that you cant change other people or the way they act... you can only change the way you act. So all things being equal... slapping a smile on your face and being polite will get you farther than not!

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Since when is calling someone ma'am not being polite?

 

[Arsenic]

Since when is calling someone ma'am not being polite?

for real, you cant just go around and say "nurse' everywhere either. i was outside the OR the other day and you know everyone is in green scrubs, so i saw this woman walk past me and i asked her a question with "ma'am" as an intro. she turned out to be one of the anesthesia attendings.

when i go up to people that i know are nurses on the wards i just say "hi ma'am, i'm so and so one of the 3rd year medical students...". you always get farther with people when you introduce yourself and i always use ma'am or sir. i've never been called out for that, thats crazy. after i meet them i try to remember their names so that the next time i can drop the ma'am and just say michelle or whatever, so far the people i've done that with have liked it.

 

[GoofyDoc]

Well I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. Some people are just like that. You have to consider that you cant change other people or the way they act... you can only change the way you act. So all things being equal... slapping a smile on your face and being polite will get you farther than not!

Oh, I didn't mean that we should be obnoxious as well. I'm always polite even when it's much easier to just blow up in someone's face. Having a lousy personality won't help you win any friends.

 

[Dunce]

. . . after i meet them i try to remember their names so that the next time i can drop the ma'am and just say michelle or whatever, so far the people i've done that with have liked it.

Nobody should ever underestimate the benefit in doing this.

 

[Dr JPH]

Nobody should ever underestimate the benefit in doing this.

What I find amusing is how much this topic bothers everyone.

Maybe its just me, but I have the attitude that I have too much work to do that worrying about what someone else says, does or doesnt do is a waste of my time.

Once you get past the phase where you worry about things, life goes much smoother in the hospital.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

And for the other point of view...

http://allnurses.com/forums/f8/petty-about-med-student-175646.html

 

[raidermedic]

And for the other point of view...

http://allnurses.com/forums/f8/petty-about-med-student-175646.html

Wow seems pretty nice over there. Everyone is civil and in agreement or offering a sensible explanation. Post that on here with the roles reversed and you'll get a 100 replies of "Hey jackass you obviously did something wrong!" Or "Get off your lazy ass and help." Maybe thats why medical students annoy people so much. They seem to have this overwhelming urge to tell people they are in the wrong.

 

[GuP]

Did any of these occur in NY hospitals?

 

[Dr JPH]

Maybe thats why medical students annoy people so much. They seem to have this overwhelming urge to tell people they are in the wrong.

You missed the point completely...

 

[Tiki]

Wow seems pretty nice over there. Everyone is civil and in agreement or offering a sensible explanation. Post that on here with the roles reversed and you'll get a 100 replies of "Hey jackass you obviously did something wrong!" Or "Get off your lazy ass and help." Maybe thats why medical students annoy people so much. They seem to have this overwhelming urge to tell people they are in the wrong.

Actually, what I learned from that is no matter what I do, I'm going to piss someone off. Kinda sucks.

 

[raidermedic]

Actually, what I learned from that is no matter what I do, I'm going to piss someone off. Kinda sucks.

I guess if it's not clinically related you can just ignore people's pissy attitude. Pretend they are a child throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[caroladybelle]

Since when is calling someone ma'am not being polite?

It was probably someone having "ageism" issues. Using ma'am is polite. Though I do note that those of the "Northern/yankee" origin sometimes take offense to ma'am, sir, etc.

I frequently call unknowns on the floor "sir" or "ma'am" until their identity is known. As I am ...somewhat older that most of y'all... it occasionally draws an odd look, but then they introduce themselves properly. I do the same with housecare personnel that I do with Attendings, MSs, or residents.

 

[lexrageorge]

Since when is calling someone ma'am not being polite?

Calling someone who you do not know "ma'am" or "sir" is perfectly polite. If someone has a problem with being called ma'am or sir, that is their problem, not yours, and it is not a problem you can fix, either.

Yes, after you've met the person, you should attempt to learn their name, title, etc. Hard to do that when you've never met the person before, however.