i did exactly what i wasn't supposed to do...

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Borrow

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I told program A they were my number #1 choice and, you guessed it, I am having strong second thoughts. I have been going back and forth between program A and B since before I even interviewed. My head says program A but my heart is telling me program B and it's getting stronger. I told program A they were my #1 choice a couple of weeks ago and never got a response.

I know I really messed up but is there any way I can get out of this? Do I have to email them again? Can I rank program B #1 (which I am pretty sure I will match at) even though I told program A? I don't want to get in trouble of any kind but I really don't wanna spend the next 4 years at program A. Going into neurology btw.

Let this all be a lesson!
 
Yes you can. Happens all the time. Don't email them.
 
curiousneuro said:
Dude - I'm in exactly the same position. I guess this is why "number 1" emails are kinda useless to PDs....
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Exactly. An email isn't a contract. It's an important decision, and people change their minds all the time as they assess the factors that are really important to them. Residency is hard, and you owe it to yourself to rank the programs in the order you prefer.
 
Please stay away from emailing people and confusing them. This is more like a healing ulcer. Dont poke on it and pull the pus out. Sit still, do your ROL and relax.
 
Borrow said:
I told program A they were my number #1 choice and, you guessed it, I am having strong second thoughts. I have been going back and forth between program A and B since before I even interviewed. My head says program A but my heart is telling me program B and it's getting stronger. I told program A they were my #1 choice a couple of weeks ago and never got a response.

I know I really messed up but is there any way I can get out of this? Do I have to email them again? Can I rank program B #1 (which I am pretty sure I will match at) even though I told program A? I don't want to get in trouble of any kind but I really don't wanna spend the next 4 years at program A. Going into neurology btw.

Let this all be a lesson!
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really, its not going to make a difference to the PD or the program...they will be able to fill their programs even if you put them #2 (or 3 or 4 or 5...) an you may still end up there (not everyone gets their number 1)
 
Here's the deal with the matching process I do not believe many medical students understand. Maybe because they are somewhat young and have not had real jobs. Or no dealings in business.

Most medical students are hardworking and honest folk I like to believe. Therefore, when they give their word, as in I am putting you #1, you feel that obligation to keep your word. Because you are honest, trustworthy, etc.

The program just wants good applicants. The best they can get based on whom they feel. IF that happens to be you then great. If not, that's okay with them too.

So, if you tell a program they are #1 a month ago and now change your mind. Don't worry they probably took it with a grain of salt or did not care at all and will rank their list the way they want. We ain't special. Just numbers in slots they need to fill.

In fact, I would recommend you tell several programs you have at the top they are #1 if you are going to make a declaration to cover yourself and want to show that program interest. You certainly can't say I am going to rank you highly. That is like saying I want this other chick but I will settle for you.

Or you can just say nothing and see how it works out. Kinda depends on how you are.

I can see where both methods could work. And I really doubt most PDs are going to call another PD after the match and say Joe Blow lied to us and told us they had us #1.

I am sure they realize it is a game. Everyone is trying to get the best match they can for themselves. The applicants and the programs. Everyone is lying to everyone to some extent in most cases. Because everyone wants to cover their ass.

SO, I say choose whatever method you want in contact with programs. IF you need to declare your love do it. If you love 2 or 3 programs, tell them all you love them. If you can't say the "L" word, then don't.

Just remember all is fair in love and war!!!

#STICKY THIS SHOT#
 
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I guess I am more concerned about creating a potential match violation and getting my match revoked lol
 
Borrow said:
I guess I am more concerned about creating a potential match violation and getting my match revoked lol
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you could literally tell every single program you interviewed with that you're their number 1 choice, and that wouldn't be a match violation in the slightest.

Now, if you should do that ethically, that's a different story, which @J DUB makes some good points as well...
 
Borrow said:
I guess I am more concerned about creating a potential match violation and getting my match revoked lol
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There's nothing you have done that could be construed as a Match violation. I mean, you did some dumb s***, don't get me wrong. But you won't get in trouble for it.
 
Don't send any more emails. Rank the programs in the order you prefer them.

I tell my students to feel free to send interest letters- for better or worse, some programs actually take those into account. But my advice is to never, no matter how sure you are at the time, send a "You're my #1!" note. In my experience it doesn't give you any additional boost compared to a simple "I really liked the program and would love to end up there," and has the potential of making you look bad if you change your mind.

Looking for my first job out of residency, one of the department chairs I interviewed with was a former program director. During one of our first talks she said, "I remember interviewing you for residency. We ranked you to match. Why did you rank us lower than [program I ended up at]?" I ended up getting that job, but can imagine it would've been quite awkward if I'd sent a "You're #1!" email and she remembered it.
 
J DUB said:
Here's the deal with the matching process I do not believe many medical students understand. Maybe because they are somewhat young and have not had real jobs. Or no dealings in business.

Most medical students are hardworking and honest folk I like to believe. Therefore, when they give their word, as in I am putting you #1, you feel that obligation to keep your word. Because you are honest, trustworthy, etc.

The program just wants good applicants. The best they can get based on whom they feel. IF that happens to be you then great. If not, that's okay with them too.

So, if you tell a program they are #1 a month ago and now change your mind. Don't worry they probably took it with a grain of salt or did not care at all and will rank their list the way they want. We ain't special. Just numbers in slots they need to fill.

In fact, I would recommend you tell several programs you have at the top they are #1 if you are going to make a declaration to cover yourself and want to show that program interest. You certainly can't say I am going to rank you highly. That is like saying I want this other chick but I will settle for you.

Or you can just say nothing and see how it works out. Kinda depends on how you are.

I can see where both methods could work. And I really doubt most PDs are going to call another PD after the match and say Joe Blow lied to us and told us they had us #1.

I am sure they realize it is a game. Everyone is trying to get the best match they can for themselves. The applicants and the programs. Everyone is lying to everyone to some extent in most cases. Because everyone wants to cover their ass.

SO, I say choose whatever method you want in contact with programs. IF you need to declare your love do it. If you love 2 or 3 programs, tell them all you love them. If you can't say the "L" word, then don't.

Just remember all is fair in love and war!!!

#STICKY THIS SHOT#
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you forgot to add the part about how you are also a medical student with no more experience in the rank process than OP. But please go on about other things us young medical students couldn't possibly understand


freakin nontrads.
 
Dude...if you've already gone in the Neurology forum and asked the question...you have essentially outed yourself. I mean, how many people applying to Neurology are going to standup a PD this cycle? You've already said too much. Delete your posts.
 
i made the same mistake OP. but it was my number one at the beginning of the season and after finishing my interviews I emailed them and said number one. The very next day, I changed my mind. It is what it is. In retrospect, I wish I never e-mailed any of the programs.
 
Danglebells said:
you forgot to add the part about how you are also a medical student with no more experience in the rank process than OP. But please go on about other things us young medical students couldn't possibly understand


freakin nontrads.
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And you forget as a nontrad most of my friends are attendings and residents. So i get my knowledge from them and some on here.

I love internet strong guys......Show me that e-peen boss! :banana:
 
J DUB said:
And you forget as a nontrad most of my friends are attendings and residents. So i get my knowledge from them and some on here.

I love internet strong guys......Show me that e-peen boss! :banana:
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No e-peens.

Sorry I outed you as a med student talking out your ass. I didnt mean to hurt your feelings I promise. Just wanted to make sure people knew who they were listening to.

Im sure you wanted to be honest with everyone about your student status right?


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
 
Danglebells said:
No e-peens.

Sorry I outed you as a med student talking out your ass. I didnt mean to hurt your feelings I promise. Just wanted to make sure people knew who they were listening to.

Im sure you wanted to be honest with everyone about your student status right?


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...

It is right there on my profile. So not sure what you are getting at where I am hiding that.

And yeah you owned me boss....taught me a lesson. I am just stating ideas from others above me and what they have told me and what I think.

So, please give us your great ideas MR. dangleballs.

Teach us and me the great ways of the match. And with your name you sound more the type to be putting things in your mouth and perhaps your ass!
 
Danglebells said:
No e-peens.

Sorry I outed you as a med student talking out your ass. I didnt mean to hurt your feelings I promise. Just wanted to make sure people knew who they were listening to.

Im sure you wanted to be honest with everyone about your student status right?


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app
Click to expand...
well he is isn't he? its in his profile info to the left of his post...unlike yours that has no information...
 
Danglebells said:
you forgot to add the part about how you are also a medical student with no more experience in the rank process than OP. But please go on about other things us young medical students couldn't possibly understand


freakin nontrads.
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Upon seeing your ID, I initially read it as "Dingleberry" and had a good laugh.
I'm not sure what your point is about being a med student as he does nothing to hide that fact and has stated his opinion appropriately with facts. I'm not sure what your role in healthcare is, but I certainly hope you aren't the dingleberry on rounds. I'm very curious about your personal agenda with regards to singling out a certain poster and attacking the poster. Did he do something that caused you great harm or sadness?
 
From a program's perspective, after program submits their ROLs, does the program know who matched at that program and nothing about the rest of the candidates that the programs ranked? Or does the program get a list of where all candidates matched that they ranked but they matched some place else?

I hope I'm making sense. In other words, if a programs ranked 50 candidates for 5 spots. What information does the program receive about the matched candidates? If a candidates was ranked by the program within the first 5 (ranked to match) but one of the candidate from the top 5 did't match at the program, will the program know which other program did that candidate match?

Thanks for time and good luck to all for the match!
 
letmeinwillya said:
From a program's perspective, after program submits their ROLs, does the program know who matched at that program and nothing about the rest of the candidates that the programs ranked? Or does the program get a list of where all candidates matched that they ranked but they matched some place else?

I hope I'm making sense. In other words, if a programs ranked 50 candidates for 5 spots. What information does the program receive about the matched candidates? If a candidates was ranked by the program within the first 5 (ranked to match) but one of the candidate from the top 5 did't match at the program, will the program know which other program did that candidate match?

Thanks for time and good luck to all for the match!
Click to expand...
Yes. Programs find out where the people they ranked matched.
 
Why my suggestion of telling multiple programs they are # 1 may not be the greatest idea. But also after talking with several pds. They told me they did not care enough to call another program in most cases unless they really pissed them off. Like one told me. There are plenty of qualified apps. It is like splitting hairs in ranking apps.
 
Thank you for reply. Do they find out as part of the match process meaning does NRMP provide them the ability to find out if they want to or does NRMP give them a report saying where all the candidates they ranked eventually matched?

A program cannot find out from ERAS or NRMP where a candidate applied, does this mean if a candidate interviewed at a program, the program is entitled to match information about that candidate regardless of whether the candidate matched at the said program or not?

gutonc said:
Yes. Programs find out where the people they ranked matched.
Click to expand...
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
Upon seeing your ID, I initially read it as "Dingleberry" and had a good laugh.
I'm not sure what your point is about being a med student as he does nothing to hide that fact and has stated his opinion appropriately with facts. I'm not sure what your role in healthcare is, but I certainly hope you aren't the dingleberry on rounds. I'm very curious about your personal agenda with regards to singling out a certain poster and attacking the poster. Did he do something that caused you great harm or sadness?
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no I had a very long day on rotation with a condescending jerk nontrad and I took it out on SDN like a child. Im sorry guys.

I basically have spent the month dealing with an M3 in his 30s who constantly reminds me of "how little I know about the world" drives me insane... but that shouldnt be any of your problems.

sorry J dub. i was being a jerk.
 
How will PD know which program to call to find out about a candidate who said that he will rank program A #1 but didn't match at program A? I'm trying to find out the exact sequence of event.

Applicant told program A that they are #1, program A ranked applicant as their # 1 implying that the candidate must match at this program if candidate in fact did rank them #1 except that he didn't.

Now what will program do? Feel betrayed and pissed off for a moment and move on to others who matched because it's not like they are left with unfilled positions.

Say the program wants to retaliate against the applicant because he told them they were his #1 but lied, what can a program do at that point? Call NRMP and say Joe lied and it's match violation which I think it's not.


J DUB said:
Why my suggestion of telling multiple programs they are # 1 may not be the greatest idea. But also after talking with several pds. They told me they did not care enough to call another program in most cases unless they really pissed them off. Like one told me. There are plenty of qualified apps. It is like splitting hairs in ranking apps.
Click to expand...
J DUB said:
Why my suggestion of telling multiple programs they are # 1 may not be the greatest idea. But also after talking with several pds. They told me they did not care enough to call another program in most cases unless they really pissed them off. Like one told me. There are plenty of qualified apps. It is like splitting hairs in ranking apps.
Click to expand...
 
letmeinwillya said:
How will PD know which program to call to find out about a candidate who said that he will rank program A #1 but didn't match at program A? I'm trying to find out the exact sequence of event.

Applicant told program A that they are #1, program A ranked applicant as their # 1 implying that the candidate must match at this program if candidate in fact did rank them #1 except that he didn't.

Now what will program do? Feel betrayed and pissed off for a moment and move on to others who matched because it's not like they are left with unfilled positions.

Say the program wants to retaliate against the applicant because he told them they were his #1 but lied, what can a program do at that point? Call NRMP and say Joe lied and it's match violation which I think it's not.
Click to expand...

they don't really care..one applicant is really not that special...i know this next month is crazy and 4th years get neurotic about it, but it doesn't matter...frankly # 1-3 on your rank list are really the same thing...you will perseverate on this over and over and over...changing your list and recertify a bizillion times... while it probably isn't a good idea to tell multiple programs you are ranking them # 1, in the end PD are going initially say...hmm...i wonder why so and so is not coming here, but they are going to be more occupied with those that DID match at their program.

it is not a match violation for you to be promiscuous with your #1 emails, so there really isn't anyway that they can retaliate, but as has been mentioned, it may be remembered come fellowship time, but even then I really can't see anyone being so invested that they would hold it against an applicant.
 
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Thank you for your replies! I'm still not sure about one thing though. If a candidate is ranked on a program's list, does that mean the program will receive information about that candidate's match status and where that candidate matched even if the candidate didn't match at that program?
 
letmeinwillya said:
Thank you for your replies! I'm still not sure about one thing though. If a candidate is ranked on a program's list, does that mean the program will receive information about that candidate's match status and where that candidate matched even if the candidate didn't match at that program?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
letmeinwillya said:
Thank you for your replies! I'm still not sure about one thing though. If a candidate is ranked on a program's list, does that mean the program will receive information about that candidate's match status and where that candidate matched even if the candidate didn't match at that program?
Click to expand...

Yes. On the Monday after Match, the NRMP provides programs with "Match Results by Ranked Applicant"--so if a program ranked you, they will see where you ended up.
 
Danglebells said:
no I had a very long day on rotation with a condescending jerk nontrad and I took it out on SDN like a child. Im sorry guys.

I basically have spent the month dealing with an M3 in his 30s who constantly reminds me of "how little I know about the world" drives me insane... but that shouldnt be any of your problems.

sorry J dub. i was being a jerk.
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No worries. I just don't take ****. So, if one comes at me, then be prepared. I am used to the "lounge" rules.

I am in my 30's with other life experiences but I usually am fairly chill and try and use my pharm knowledge to actually help residents. I offer my advice when asked. I have learned the hierarchy.

My soapbox is trying to make med students realize that there really is no honor and code in this process. You have to white lie and cover your ass and let programs think they are all #1. So you can make sure you get a spot for residency.

And use whatever strategy you are comfortable with. But realize that programs will tell you all sorts of things and then you might not match there. I have seen it several times. So, you need to as well. Play the game or the game plays you.

I know it goes against what we are taught about honor but in business I have learned you have to play the game.

Just keep that in mind is all I am getting at. I am hearing so many of my classmates think they have spots already because programs tell them they are top applicants, etc. They tell 50 folks that for 4 spots. SO, realize that and be prepared to work the game and tell them they are great too!
 
This is a game and strategy is certainly involved in playing it well. Candidate stand to lose more than the programs so a candidate would naturally want to increase their chances. What scared me was one lone PD1 contacting another PD2 where the candidate who told PD1 that they were #1 and PD1 told candidate was #1 but candidate matched at PD2. Doomsday scenario is PD1 calling PD2 and causing trouble for the candidate...probably less likely to happen but this is the major risk I see.

Had no idea that in Main NRMP match, the programs receive match report for all candidates that they ranked. I thought the program would have received only the list of candidates that matched at their program and not about the candidates who didn't match there for one reason or another..they (candidates) obviously may or may not have matched at any other programs.

So this is how the program would know that a candidate they ranked to match didn't rank with them rather matched some place else. In life there's lot to learn and thank you for enlightening me on this unnecessary complicated process..whatever happened to go for an interview, hear about go no-go and be done with it. oh well..prematch beckons!

Worth repeating your sage advice "play the game or the game plays you", spoken like a true playa 🙂!!
 
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Just when I thought this was crystal clear, what gives? the match violation gave me heart attack!! Really? Say told program #1 and then genuinely changed mine, did I give program false information and committed Match violation I hope not. But looking for validation here with folks who are more knowledgeable than mere mortal like me!

Someone at another forum http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2016/4/821010-1.php says he contacted NRMP and this what they said:

"I just called NRMP to clear all of my doubts..That it what i just got. They say that you should absolutely not give false information to the programs , its match violation. for example if some program is at the bottom of your list then you should not tell that program that you are at the top of my list. They say that "You can volunteer to say to the program that they are your no. 1 program but you cannot ask them how they are going to rank you. Also Programs can see later on where we match if they had ranked us."
 
letmeinwillya said:
Just when I thought this was crystal clear, what gives? the match violation gave me heart attack!! Really? Say told program #1 and then genuinely changed mine, did I give program false information and committed Match violation I hope not. But looking for validation here with folks who are more knowledgeable than mere mortal like me!

Someone at another forum http://www.usmleforum.com/files/forum/2016/4/821010-1.php says he contacted NRMP and this what they said:

"I just called NRMP to clear all of my doubts..That it what i just got. They say that you should absolutely not give false information to the programs , its match violation. for example if some program is at the bottom of your list then you should not tell that program that you are at the top of my list. They say that "You can volunteer to say to the program that they are your no. 1 program but you cannot ask them how they are going to rank you. Also Programs can see later on where we match if they had ranked us."
Click to expand...

It is not a match violation to tell a program that they are you #1, and then you rank them differently. There's some issues with morals surrounding it, which is why it's better to just not, but it's not a match violation. It is a match violation to tell a program 'I am only ranking you #1 if you rank me to match', which is a silly statement for a candidate to make, because the program is just as likely to say 'too bad' and move past you. After all, most of the time, they have dozens of other applicants to replace you, especially now with the increasing competitiveness of the match. It's also a match violation for the program to demand you rank them number 1 in return for ranking you #1. Which is why a lot of programs just don't engage in post-interview communication.
 
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letmeinwillya said:
...whatever happened to go for an interview, hear about go no-go and be done with it. oh well..prematch beckons!
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because in that scenario (which BTW was the way it was prior to the match) you may say no to a better program if you interviewed with them early or would be pressured by the program to say yes or they would rescind the offer...in actuality the match was created to get the advantage to the student and not the program...ask those who do fellowship outside of the nrmp and their dilemmas...

and in this of all in...those programs that are offering prematches are not usually programs that people really want to join.

PLEASE...certify your ROL and then pick up a hobby to keep you occupied for the next couple of months...
 
Hi rokshana,
I was saying that in exasperation from the match process..yes ironically the Match process was designed to deal with that kind of issues. Good point on hobby! I know but can't seem to shake off the Match day thoughts. Oh well! I so want to report back here that I matched and be done with it.. my sincere thanks to all who are patiently sharing their thoughts here.
 
No PD is gonna take the time to call up another PD. They will have their hands full with the new recruits and day to day business.
 
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Forget the emails...I plan on seeing my PD during our second look and just tell him politely that this indeed my first choice and I love it. In my case, I am honest because I did rank them as first. I am not planning on emailing anyone and wasting my time on guessing games. Just tell it as it is.Let the honesty come through eyes .:hungry:
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
No PD is gonna take the time to call up another PD. They will have their hands full with the new recruits and day to day business.
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I believe this to be true too. Unless you really did something to make that PD mad.

Plus, it is still always our right to change our mind up to 2/24 at 8:59 pm. So, if you do send multiple #1's you could always come up with a reason like I decided I wanted to be closer to home, I was torn between 2 programs and went with my gut at the end and I am sorry it is was not you. I still love you! lol etc etc etc.
 
So if you're going into a very small field...people will remember if you lie, and they will call your chair/PD to ask what happened, particularly if you had that person call on your behalf. I know lots of posters above think it doesn't happen, but at least in the small surgical subspecialties, you really don't want to ruin your reputation before your career even starts by telling multiple programs they're #1 on your list. Better off not saying anything to anyone, b/c the whole "I am extremely interested and ranking you highly" is worthless.
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
No PD is gonna take the time to call up another PD. They will have their hands full with the new recruits and day to day business.
Click to expand...

Every single year I have at least one or two recruits that I am *sure* are coming to my program who match elsewhere. We can see where they matched if it's in NRMP. Obviously, we can't see out-of-Match or other match scenarios that are not NRMP.

I usually sit looking at the list for a moment and contemplate such a phone call, then realize what a gigantic waste of time it would be.

I do make an exhaustive list of all programs that my applicants matched at, specifically looking at those programs that seem to be most frequent competitors of ours. Those are the websites I review and those are the PDs that I seek out at conferences to discuss what they are thinking about applicants/interview day/curriculum etc.
 
IMPD said:
Every single year I have at least one or two recruits that I am *sure* are coming to my program who match elsewhere. We can see where they matched if it's in NRMP. Obviously, we can't see out-of-Match or other match scenarios that are not NRMP.

I usually sit looking at the list for a moment and contemplate such a phone call, then realize what a gigantic waste of time it would be.

I do make an exhaustive list of all programs that my applicants matched at, specifically looking at those programs that seem to be most frequent competitors of ours. Those are the websites I review and those are the PDs that I seek out at conferences to discuss what they are thinking about applicants/interview day/curriculum etc.
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I'm fully aware that you can see where the recruits landed as long as you ranked them. However, like you said, it's a gigantic waste of time. However, it's always in the PD's hands as to whether or not they want to pursue this further. At the end of the day, what's the other PD going to say? "Sorry?" Or "maybe things changed." It would be a malignant group of PDs who would then harass the new incoming intern for playing the same game y'all as PDs play.
 
grt398 said:
So if you're going into a very small field...people will remember if you lie, and they will call your chair/PD to ask what happened, particularly if you had that person call on your behalf. I know lots of posters above think it doesn't happen, but at least in the small surgical subspecialties, you really don't want to ruin your reputation before your career even starts by telling multiple programs they're #1 on your list. Better off not saying anything to anyone, b/c the whole "I am extremely interested and ranking you highly" is worthless.
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Yeah, that's true. Probably don't want to eff around with NSG or integrated plastics/thoracic etc. But, most aren't applying to these surgical subspecialties. Most are pursuing FM, IM, Peds, EM, anes, gen surg, etc. Med-Peds is also pretty small.
 
jennashell said:
Forget the emails...I plan on seeing my PD during our second look and just tell him politely that this indeed my first choice and I love it. In my case, I am honest because I did rank them as first. I am not planning on emailing anyone and wasting my time on guessing games. Just tell it as it is.Let the honesty come through eyes .:hungry:
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Be sure to come in high heels and a short split skirt if the PD is male.

Gotta go all out or go home.
 
22031 Alum said:
Don't send any more emails. Rank the programs in the order you prefer them.

I tell my students to feel free to send interest letters- for better or worse, some programs actually take those into account. But my advice is to never, no matter how sure you are at the time, send a "You're my #1!" note. In my experience it doesn't give you any additional boost compared to a simple "I really liked the program and would love to end up there," and has the potential of making you look bad if you change your mind.

Looking for my first job out of residency, one of the department chairs I interviewed with was a former program director. During one of our first talks she said, "I remember interviewing you for residency. We ranked you to match. Why did you rank us lower than [program I ended up at]?" I ended up getting that job, but can imagine it would've been quite awkward if I'd sent a "You're #1!" email and she remembered it.
Click to expand...

Oh gosh awkward
 
I will echo what was said about small fields. I know that if you drop a "#1" email in NSGY and match somewhere else when you were ranked to match it is a huge deal. Plus the chairs/PDs in our programs talk a lot during/after the process. PDs have mentioned they have black lists of residents who have lied to them in the match... consequences may not happen until you look for a job, but it seems like something to avoid. This likely does not translate to bigger fields. Way I see it, if you have a strong number one, let them know. Otherwise, let your rank list be as it falls without more specific contact. Absolutely do NOT use a strategy of telling more than one program they are number one on purpose... it is poor form and why risk future consequences?
 
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ERAS Photo - can I do it myself, or should I get professional headshots?
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