I dont get it..........

[USAF_Dentman]

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So over the Christmas break, i met up with some friends that i hadnt seen in a while. My friend that got me interested in dentistry applied this year for admission. He had about a 3.8 GPA, 22/22/19 DAT, applied to 8 schools and got accepted to a few. He got into Harvard, UMinn, UCSF(?) and 1 other that i dont remember off hand.

Now here's the funny thing. He got waitlisted at Marquette, Case, Creighton and BU!?!? That's what i dont understand, he had good stats and good LOR's, extracurric's, etc. You would think that his stats would be good enough for those schools...

I also see this same situation on this boards, people who have close to a 4.0 and great test scores, LOR's, etc. but dont get into the less competitive schools...

Someone once told me, the reason some schools do this is because a very competitive applicant will most likely not choose a less competitive school, so there's no reason to accept them anyways...Is this true!?!?

 

[Sprgrover]

...Someone once told me, the reason some schools do this is because a very competitive applicant will most likely not choose a less competitive school, so there's no reason to accept them anyways...Is this true!?!?

I've once wondered the same thing myself. I too have known people that have had very good stats and get into the "tough" schools while their backups drop them like hot potatoes.

 

[Biogirl361]

i have close to the same stats as your friend and got waitlisted at marquette but got into case no problem. schools can be really wierd sometimes as I and some other pre-dents have experienced. they will mysteriously not accept people that everyone thinks is a sure thing. they will make people with great stats do a second interview before making a decision (has anyone ever heard of this besides me?) anyway, i wouldn't think people would get dropped for stats being TOO good, if anything, schools usually offer scholarships to these people. the only thing i can think of is if he applied middle to late in the cycle and these schools had already interviewed enough people to fill their class.

 

[USAF_Dentman]

i have close to the same stats as your friend and got waitlisted at marquette but got into case no problem. schools can be really wierd sometimes as I and some other pre-dents have experienced. they will mysteriously not accept people that everyone thinks is a sure thing. they will make people with great stats do a second interview before making a decision (has anyone ever heard of this besides me?) anyway, i wouldn't think people would get dropped for stats being TOO good, if anything, schools usually offer scholarships to these people. the only thing i can think of is if he applied middle to late in the cycle and these schools had already interviewed enough people to fill their class.

He applied in late June, but i dont think that is too late..

 

[Literati81]

I have heard of a few schools that reject people if they lack community service (not to be confused with other extracurriculars).

As for only getting into tough schools...that's a tricky one. I have a few of friends in medical school who endured the same situation--they had amazing stats but were eventually rejected by their back-ups while earning acceptances from Ivy Leagues and UCs. Their explanation is that their back-ups probably knew that they were not the applicants' top choice. So, in order to risk losing more time and space, they rejected students who would otherwise withdraw their application to attend a higher tier school.

 

[ranark]

I have heard of a few schools that reject people if they lack community service (not to be confused with other extracurriculars).

As for only getting into tough schools...that's a tricky one. I have a few of friends in medical school who endured the same situation--they had amazing stats but were eventually rejected by their back-ups while earning acceptances from Ivy Leagues and UCs. Their explanation is that their back-ups probably knew that they were not the applicants' top choice. So, in order to risk losing more time and space, they rejected students who would otherwise withdraw their application to attend a higher tier school.

I got into Penn which is an ivy league but Case and Marquette put me on hold, Case until I retake my DAT and Marquette till Jan. No biggie though.. its all good.

 

[Sprgrover]

I got into Penn which is an ivy league but Case and Marquette put me on hold, Case until I retake my DAT and Marquette till Jan. No biggie though.. its all good.

Go to Penn, ranark! 😀

 

[grinningrice]

So over the Christmas break, i met up with some friends that i hadnt seen in a while. My friend that got me interested in dentistry applied this year for admission. He had about a 3.8 GPA, 22/22/19 DAT, applied to 8 schools and got accepted to a few. He got into Harvard, UMinn, UCSF(?) and 1 other that i dont remember off hand.

Now here's the funny thing. He got waitlisted at Marquette, Case, Creighton and BU!?!? That's what i dont understand, he had good stats and good LOR's, extracurric's, etc. You would think that his stats would be good enough for those schools...

I also see this same situation on this boards, people who have close to a 4.0 and great test scores, LOR's, etc. but dont get into the less competitive schools...

Someone once told me, the reason some schools do this is because a very competitive applicant will most likely not choose a less competitive school, so there's no reason to accept them anyways...Is this true!?!?

It is very odd that your friend did not get into those schools. I had been trying to think of reasons why I have not been called for an interview at my state school and gotten into Case. I have good stats, graduating in three years, I am a minority and a woman. Although your friend had a very high academic average, how were the individual scores? SOme schools will not look at you if you have a 14 or 15, even if every other section is a 23. I know that some schools are more nit picky than others about getting any pre reqs done at community colleges. I have heard that Marquette really frowns upon any pre reqs done at comminity colleges . ALso some schools are more nit picky if you have a science degree versus a non science degree. I know at Case, interviews are VERY important. If you do not give a good interview, your chances are shot to get into the school. I was talking to the secretary and she told me that there was an applicant that was there earlier for an interview. THe guy had awesome stats, but he mouthed off his interviewer. She told me that tthere was no way he would get accepted. All in all its pretty damn hard trying to get into the twisted minds of the admissions committees of all the dental schools. There are so many cases like what happened to your friend. The best thing I think anyone can do if they have not been accepted to their first choice is to call the school and plead their case.

 

[Dr.Smiley-OR]

It is very odd that your friend did not get into those schools. I had been trying to think of reasons why I have not been called for an interview at my state school and gotten into Case. I have good stats, graduating in three years, I am a minority and a woman. Although your friend had a very high academic average, how were the individual scores? SOme schools will not look at you if you have a 14 or 15, even if every other section is a 23. I know that some schools are more nit picky than others about getting any pre reqs done at community colleges. I have heard that Marquette really frowns upon any pre reqs done at comminity colleges . ALso some schools are more nit picky if you have a science degree versus a non science degree. I know at Case, interviews are VERY important. If you do not give a good interview, your chances are shot to get into the school. I was talking to the secretary and she told me that there was an applicant that was there earlier for an interview. THe guy had awesome stats, but he mouthed off his interviewer. She told me that tthere was no way he would get accepted. All in all its pretty damn hard trying to get into the twisted minds of the admissions committees of all the dental schools. There are so many cases like what happened to your friend. The best thing I think anyone can do if they have not been accepted to their first choice is to call the school and plead their case.

I would like to elaborate more on this, if you don't mind.

When I was interviewed at my state school, the admission director told me that during their meeting for final decision, they will review both the stat and the interview report. He said that sometimes the admission committe will reject applicants who have high stats but performed bad on interviews and accept applicants who have lower stats but performed well on interviews. Therefore, in my theory, your stats is like a resume, it helps you to get your foot into the door. But your interview is also very important. Your acceptance depends heavily on how well you gave your first impression to the interviewers as well, not just your stats. And this makes sense why some schools would accept you but not others.
Interview is very subjective. It depends on the mood of your interviewers and also yourself that day, how well you portray yourself, how well the interviewers think you are "fit" to their programs (not just only for dentistry, but for the school as well). Some school would like to choose students based on certain characteristiscs besides the academic achievements. For an instance, if the school is research-oriented but during interview you somehow give an impression that you do not like research, then most likely you are not accepted to the program of that school. Or also depends on how well you answers those ethical questions, such as would you treat a drunk patient? or what do you think a dentist should do when a patient refuses a treatment? etc.........
Yeah, it is a wonder for many applicants when they are being accepted to many schools but being rejected by a few. That is why, I guess, the process of the application involves both the paperwork (objective) and the interview (subjective). And maybe this is the reason why Creighton will start doing interview next year.
Overall, all the applicants like us should not make light of any step of the application. We have to treat each step as a hurdle that we have to do our best to prove that we are worthy of the acceptance.
These are just my theories! Feel free to comment.

 

[Dr.Smiley-OR]

I have heard of a few schools that reject people if they lack community service (not to be confused with other extracurriculars).

As for only getting into tough schools...that's a tricky one. I have a few of friends in medical school who endured the same situation--they had amazing stats but were eventually rejected by their back-ups while earning acceptances from Ivy Leagues and UCs. Their explanation is that their back-ups probably knew that they were not the applicants' top choice. So, in order to risk losing more time and space, they rejected students who would otherwise withdraw their application to attend a higher tier school.

Personally, I disagree with their explanation. No school would think that way (that risk losing more time and space because they know these applicants choose their schools as back-up). Every school wants to get the best students so they will have a better reputation. The more brighter students attending at their school, the higher graduating rate the school gets. Why would a school settle for less brighter students? Do they want to take a risk of having more students fail the program?
Like I have mentioned above, each school has its own specific items that it wants to see in its students, therefore the school might choose a student with lower stat over a student with higher stat if the former student exhibits certain qualities that the school wants and the later student does not.

 

[12YearOldKid]

The more "prestigious" schools have a reputation to uphold; they have to fill their classes up with ubergunners who come in with a high GPA and are aiming to specialize. They need those numbers to convince the next round of applicants that is worth shelling out all that money for a school name.

State schools and less competitive schools can afford to choose well-rounded, pleasant applicants over the 4.0 geeky types. (I know, I know, everyone with a 4.0 isn't a social misfit.) At my school the class before me was full of type A hardcore gunners; there was all kinds of infighting within the class and with professors over grades and tests. That class pissed the entire administration off and they vowed they would weed out the sociopaths from future classes - even if it meant lower class averages.

You have to realize that dental school is nothing like college. Most schools are fairly small and everybody is in everybody else's business - faculty and students alike. The people who are deciding if you will be admitted aren't just picking numbers; they are choosing people that they will have to work with nearly every day for the next four years. You have to be likeable.

 

[Bullfan16]

The more "prestigious" schools have a reputation to uphold; they have to fill their classes up with ubergunners who come in with a high GPA and are aiming to specialize. They need those numbers to convince the next round of applicants that is worth shelling out all that money for a school name.

State schools and less competitive schools can afford to choose well-rounded, pleasant applicants over the 4.0 geeky types. (I know, I know, everyone with a 4.0 isn't a social misfit.) At my school the class before me was full of type A hardcore gunners; there was all kinds of infighting within the class and with professors over grades and tests. That class pissed the entire administration off and they vowed they would weed out the sociopaths from future classes - even if it meant lower class averages.

You have to realize that dental school is nothing like college. Most schools are fairly small and everybody is in everybody else's business - faculty and students alike. The people who are deciding if you will be admitted aren't just picking numbers; they are choosing people that they will have to work with nearly every day for the next four years. You have to be likeable.

You hit the nail on the head. Forget numbers, forget community service....if you are a nimrod and anti-social yet extremely smart how effective will you be as a dentist (let alone in society)? Something I found interesting was when I went to a family function recently.....my uncle is an oral surgeon and one of his buddies from OMS residency was there and told me he had 2 sons (one was a dentist the other was in school). He told me about how one of my state schools worked.......apparently the school never used to interview (ie like Creighton) and picked a class based on numbers. For the most part it worked, however, a lot of times situations such as the one written above or examples occurred where they would invite someone whose English was not very good (ie Sciences were good but communication=BAD) or even someone who smelled and didnt take personal hygiene seriously. This is what led to interviews. Yes, numbers are important but they arent everything.....who you are as a person is (IMO) much more important....but of course you need to clear the initial hurdle (stats) before showing who you are. I dont get this "Ivy League" stigma thing either.......who is to say what school is more selective than others? You have to take into consideration state funding, cost, size of class, how many schools there are in the state, etc. I mean yeah Penn is great but they are private and take a good amount of people and its so expensive many tend to go to their state school over them, so how does that make it more prestigious than another school? Selection factors are there for a reason, but all schools are the same....you cant say "I got into XYZ university how come I cannot get into ABC university" they simply are not comparable. I will, however, say that those with a larger class size have less stringent requirements and are probably easier to get an acceptance from due to large turnaround from the cost of tuition, but other than that you cant really assume its like undergrad admissions. Lastly, dont overanalyze....just be patient.

 

[The Godfather]

I agree with Dr. Smiley and others. The interview can be a huge part of the application process. The admissions committees are looking for potential successful health care professionals. A lot of people are "book smart." Not everyone has common sense or is personable. Let's face it, we will be in a "people business." Personally, I've worked with people on research projects that had high gpas and were good at following directions or regurgitating information, but if a problem cropped up, they couldn't "think outside the box." I've also had dentists before who had horrible bedside manner. Most people are already apprehensive about going to the dentist anyway! So, yes, I think the interviews are huge. Just because you have a high gpa doesn't mean they want to work and be around you on a day to day basis if you have little people skills or are an a**hole. Would you? (Of course, I'm not implying that this is the case with the orginal poster's friends). 👍

 

[reLAXgirl]

I think the thing people tend to forget on this forum is that it isn't all about the numbers. The impression many schools gave me was exactly what has been said before: the stats get you the interview but after that the slate is wiped clean and everyone is reevaluated. I have been accepted to more competitive schools and have even received scholarships while again, my backups have waitlisted me. In the interview they were very clear they were looking to offer spaces to people that were interested in their school. They don't want to offer spaces and possibly scholarships to those who have no intention of choosing the school because other top round picks will be accepted and choose elsewhere. And besides, even if you have a 4.0 and a 30 on the DAT who says you'll be a great dentist?

 

[Sprgrover]

Personally, I disagree with their explanation. No school would think that way (that risk losing more time and space because they know these applicants choose their schools as back-up)...

I would agree with this 100% if not for the fact that a few of the people mentioned in my original post were not granted interviews at their back-up schools and they had fantastics stats, extracurriculars, and great personal statements. A line has to be drawn in the sand and it could be based on residency, grades, the adcom's perception of what the applicant wants out of his/her education, and so on.

...Selection factors are there for a reason, but all schools are the same...

Yes, every school has selection factors, but not all of them are the same so therefore not every school is the same. For example Arizona has some very unorthodox selection criteria and they are very upfront about the fact that they are interested in a lot more than stats. Numbers alone will not get your foot in their door.

It's tough not to over-think these things when you are in the middle of admissions and you have a lot riding on the outcome. You can't be liked by everyone. Does that mean you are a horrid person? - No. And likewise about having all of the dental schools you applied to fawning over you. If some don't and give you the cold shoulder instead, get up, shake yourself off, and move on. If you get an interview - make it count because they are often very important factors in an admissions decision. Afterall, it takes only one admissions offer and you can only attend one. Now, I wonder why my application was placed on hold at Marquette........

 

[Dr.Smiley-OR]

I would agree with this 100% if not for the fact that a few of the people mentioned in my original post were not granted interviews at their back-up schools and they had fantastics stats, extracurriculars, and great personal statements. A line has to be drawn in the sand and it could be based on residency, grades, the adcom's perception of what the applicant wants out of his/her education, and so on.



Yes, every school has selection factors, but not all of them are the same so therefore not every school is the same. For example Arizona has some very unorthodox selection criteria and they are very upfront about the fact that they are interested in a lot more than stats. Numbers alone will not get your foot in their door.

It's tough not to over-think these things when you are in the middle of admissions and you have a lot riding on the outcome. You can't be liked by everyone. Does that mean you are a horrid person? - No. And likewise about having all of the dental schools you applied to fawning over you. If some don't and give you the cold shoulder instead, get up, shake yourself off, and move on. If you get an interview - make it count because they are often very important factors in an admissions decision. Afterall, it takes only one admissions offer and you can only attend one. Now, I wonder why my application was placed on hold at Marquette........

Hey Sprgover,
I think you have misquoted me on "Selection factors are there for a reason, but all schools are the same..."
I don't think i have said that. I rechecked my posts as well and did not see anywhere I have made such a statement.

 

[Sprgrover]

Hey Sprgover,
I think you have misquoted me on "Selection factors are there for a reason, but all schools are the same..."
I don't think i have said that. I rechecked my posts as well and did not see anywhere I have made such a statement.

My bad - I was too quick with the cut-n-paste. I fixed it. 🙂

 

[ItsGavinC]

Selection factors are there for a reason, but all schools are the same....

Maybe I'm misreading something, but it sure looks like you posted this.

 

[Sprgrover]

Maybe I'm misreading something, but it sure looks like you posted this.

I accidentally attributed the quote to Dr.Smiley instead of Bullfan16. 😉

 

[DrTacoElf]

I think lack of interest in lesser schools can also show up in interviews. Schools can sometimes sense if they are a backup and they are usually hesitant to accept you if they know they are a backup.