I don't like research work, but i still want to be a cardiologist!!

[Teejay]

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I have read almost all postings on getting into a cardiology program and what i 've learnt is that you must have a good research background before getting in. But i have done some research in the past and did not enjoy it a lot. I''ll enjoy being an interventional cardiologist and do thier wonderful procedures not research. So the question i have is? Is it possible to get into a cardiology program without a solid background in research?

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I have read almost all postings on getting into a cardiology program and what i 've learnt is that you must have a good research background before getting in. But i have done some research in the past and did not enjoy it a lot. I''ll enjoy being an interventional cardiologist and do thier wonderful procedures not research. So the question i have is? Is it possible to get into a cardiology program without a solid background in research?

Simple answer: NO

 

[bkpa2med]

Think about it this way, if you don't research how would any advancements come into this field? Realistically they wouldn't therefore researching is an important issue.

 

[P Diddy]

I have read almost all postings on getting into a cardiology program and what i 've learnt is that you must have a good research background before getting in. But i have done some research in the past and did not enjoy it a lot. I''ll enjoy being an interventional cardiologist and do thier wonderful procedures not research. So the question i have is? Is it possible to get into a cardiology program without a solid background in research?

there are plenty of people who want to go into cardiology who are more interested in practicing than an academic career. even in academic centers, 50% or more of graduates eventually end up in private practice. think about it - if everyone in cardiology fellowship remained in academics, who would be taking care of patients?

that being said, a cardiology fellowship is probably the most competitive IM fellowship to obtain. Given the disparity between applicants and positions, programs must devise a way to differentiate applicants. this is done by the usual parameters: US grad vs DO/IMG/FMG, residency reputation, support from faculty and research background.

can you get into a cardiology program without a solid background in research? the short answer is yes, depending on the definition of 'solid background', which i take to mean first authored articles, multiple projects or, in the extreme case, a PhD, MS or research fellowship. most programs would like you to have an 'academic interest' but these same programs realize that A. it is very difficult to determine which candidates are actually committed to research and B. the majority of their fellows will go into private practice, as mentioned above. community fellowships are probably more realistic in this regard (ie, they realize dedicated research is not integral to becoming a cardiologist) but still use research background as a way to differentiate applicants.

I do know a few applicants from my residency program who had no research background and did obtain cardiology fellowships at fairly good programs, but I was at a well regarded residency program. those applying from programs perceived to be less prestigious have to apply with more on their plate, such as research. see what successful applicants from your program (if you're a resident) had done in terms of research before they applied and plan accordingly.

p diddy

 

[DHMO]

I have read almost all postings on getting into a cardiology program and what i 've learnt is that you must have a good research background before getting in. But i have done some research in the past and did not enjoy it a lot. I''ll enjoy being an interventional cardiologist and do thier wonderful procedures not research. So the question i have is? Is it possible to get into a cardiology program without a solid background in research?

What kind of research did you do in the past? I did not enjoy basic science research all that much, and never considered an academic career before I entered medical school. But I did some clinical research during med school and loved it--now I want to go into academics. If you haven't done clinical research, give that a shot.

 

[Teejay]

there are plenty of people who want to go into cardiology who are more interested in practicing than an academic career. even in academic centers, 50% or more of graduates eventually end up in private practice. think about it - if everyone in cardiology fellowship remained in academics, who would be taking care of patients?

that being said, a cardiology fellowship is probably the most competitive IM fellowship to obtain. Given the disparity between applicants and positions, programs must devise a way to differentiate applicants. this is done by the usual parameters: US grad vs DO/IMG/FMG, residency reputation, support from faculty and research background.

can you get into a cardiology program without a solid background in research? the short answer is yes, depending on the definition of 'solid background', which i take to mean first authored articles, multiple projects or, in the extreme case, a PhD, MS or research fellowship. most programs would like you to have an 'academic interest' but these same programs realize that A. it is very difficult to determine which candidates are actually committed to research and B. the majority of their fellows will go into private practice, as mentioned above. community fellowships are probably more realistic in this regard (ie, they realize dedicated research is not integral to becoming a cardiologist) but still use research background as a way to differentiate applicants.

I do know a few applicants from my residency program who had no research background and did obtain cardiology fellowships at fairly good programs, but I was at a well regarded residency program. those applying from programs perceived to be less prestigious have to apply with more on their plate, such as research. see what successful applicants from your program (if you're a resident) had done in terms of research before they applied and plan accordingly.

p diddy

Thanks P diddy,
This really helped. i''ll try and get into a good IM program when the time comes. But even if i must start now to do more research, how much is enough. I have already had 10 months research experience in two different institutions working on two different projects. How much more experience do you think i need to be more competitive? Can one also do research during residency? Is it possible because i know that IM residency and work load is a lot. Any advice will be deeply appreciated.

 

[CCMD2005]

I am glad that you are interested in clinical cardiology. Most academic cardiologists are bitter that they make 1/3 of there private practice collegues (superiors). Sure its great to be an academic cardiologist if you are one of the handful of big ones...but remember most academics die poor, bitter, and unkown. At least as a private guy you can be rich!

Moreover, who would you want doing your cath, a guy who does 10 caths a week (well, actually watches a trainee do them) (academic) or one who does 40 a week (private)...remember in cards volume = quality.
-CC

 

[joti]

Hi CCMD 2005,

You are absolutely right in volume =quality. But we have to remember the fact that somebody has to train the fellows.

There are programs out there like Mayo Clinic, Cleveland, William Beumount, and Midwest heart Institute you can do research, teaching with in a private group.
There are also private practice groups in which you can do private practice and pharmaceutical related research. My attending made 1 million last year, he is also in the editorial board of a prestigious Card Journal. He is reasonably known in the academia too.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Hi CCMD 2005,

You are absolutely right in volume =quality. But we have to remember the fact that somebody has to train the fellows.

There are programs out there like Mayo Clinic, Cleveland, William Beumount, and Midwest heart Institute you can do research, teaching with in a private group.
There are also private practice groups in which you can do private practice and pharmaceutical related research. My attending made 1 million last year, he is also in the editorial board of a prestigious Card Journal. He is reasonably known in the academia too.

Is William Beaumont a good place to do an IM residency if I want to get into Cardiology?

 

[CCMD2005]

Hi CCMD 2005,

You are absolutely right in volume =quality. But we have to remember the fact that somebody has to train the fellows.

There are programs out there like Mayo Clinic, Cleveland, William Beumount, and Midwest heart Institute you can do research, teaching with in a private group.
There are also private practice groups in which you can do private practice and pharmaceutical related research. My attending made 1 million last year, he is also in the editorial board of a prestigious Card Journal. He is reasonably known in the academia too.

In life, there are always going to be suckers, most academic cardiologists fall into this category! They train people who will end up making more money than them and probably have a higher degree of professional satisfaction.
-CC

 

[P Diddy]

In life, there are always going to be suckers, most academic cardiologists fall into this category! They train people who will end up making more money than them and probably have a higher degree of professional satisfaction.
-CC

please do not insult those who would like to stay in cardiology academia by deeming them 'suckers'. there are disgruntled academicians, but there are also disgruntled private practicioners. I have seen both as my Dad's in private practice and I'm at a highly regarded academic institution for fellowship. there are tired faces and envy on both sides. the pay is definitely better in private practice, but the lifestyle is much better in academia. there are pressures to produce in both situations.

it would be easy to respond to you by flinging likeminded insults (ie, private practice guys cath anything with a groin, their complication rates are higher, they're technically inept...) but let me add that without the researchers, cardiology wouldn't be the advanced, desirable field it is today. in private practice, if that's your druthers, you are benefiting from the results obtained by those in academia. it's interesting that you disrespect those who make the big bucks possible.

as joti mentioned, private practice cardiologists are also trained by academicians. some advice for the future, when you actually start training: spitting in the faces of those who trained you reflects more upon you than it does upon them.

p diddy