I feel like there is a ceiling to success that I can't get through

[kangarooo]

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I've had a rough first year so far. My first semester culminated in nearly failing gen chem (C-) and being diagnosed with major depressive disorder (which luckily is being treated quite well now). Just a quick note: The depression was not a result of the bad grades, I had anxiety in high school but my doc and I talked with a psychiatrist who bumped it up to MDD this year. I see a therapist and take meds.

I also believe that I have ADHD (I won't explain the reasons here), but essentially my doc thought I was trying to "score meds" because I didn't have ADHD as a kid (well it wasn't documented or diagnosed). He said if I could get my parents to verify that I had symptoms as a child he would diagnose it. The problem is that my parents are total hippies and "don't believe it's a real disorder" and think that the "medical establishment" is trying to turn everyone into robots, so they won't help. I wish I were kidding about that last sentence. I also went to hippie schools before college and all the "education" there was about "hands on learning" and concentration and focus weren't necessary so teachers didn't make any comments on potential learning disorders.

Now, I have a feeling some of you will agree with the doc here, and that's perfectly fair. But I'm not trying to "score meds" or anything. In fact, all I'm looking for is a fair assessment. If I don't have ADHD, that's great! But I would at least like the chance to know. I'm more interested in the free tutoring available than meds.

I have also been having trouble sleeping. I told my pediatrician who told me I should get more exercise. This seemed like a perfectly reasonable prescription so I started doing cardio 5 times a week with my girlfriend (doc said at least 3 times for half an hour each). It didn't help much so I went to see him again. He prescribed me melatonin (which is a natural supplement) but that hasn't seemed to help much either (it slowly gets less and less effective to the point where no dosage seems to help). I went to see him again and he just said "make sure you're getting that exercise and eating well". Still not working.

I started seeing a therapist which went well for a few weeks. I think it went well because it was just nice to get some things off my chest and explain it to an unbiased party without fearing judgement. However, eventually he started suggesting things such as yoga and herbal teas to relax. I actually have a very open mind about "alternative treatments", so I tried all of them. Nothing helped me reduce anxiety and he offered no suggestions for academic improvement. He also took issue with the anti-anxiety medication and told me I should stop taking it (well he covered his a** by saying we should talk to my doctor about weaning off of it and looking at alternative treatments). The medication was literally one of the only things helping with the anxiety, so I left him.

I don't have a close relationship with my advisor, and whenever I ask for help she basically just says "spend more time studying" or "hire a tutor". She hasn't done anything wrong, I just don't feel like she offers me good support. Both of my parents are very averse to medications and don't support me getting tested for ADHD. When I get low grades they get angry but we don't have any rational discussions about how I can get more support. My girlfriend is the only person that seems to support me 100%, but she doesn't have any professional training so she can really only help me with emotional support.

I applied for a position as an ED scribe but over 40 people were interviewed for 2 positions and everyone else was older and more experienced than I am. I have never even held a paying job before. Quite frankly I feel lucky I even interviewed. I don't think I'll get the job. I can't join a research lab because I haven't finished chem and bio and I don't have great grades (did okay in Bio but chem was awful). I volunteer for my local ambulance service (have for a few years), but we don't get many calls and there is only so much to see in prehospital medicine. I would like to get more experience in the clinical setting. I've done some shadowing but many docs don't respond to cold calls or just don't allow shadowing all together. Those that do allow you to shadow for a shift or two but these are rare.

The campus premed club doesn't have a lot of activities and when they do it's often at a bad time (I'm in lab or something). Most of the activities are geared towards upperclassman (MCAT prep, paying for med school, etc.). There is a "predmed enrichment" program at my school but I don't qualify (it's for minorities and economically disadvantaged students).

In summary:
I feel that I've tried many different paths but I encounter roadblocks at each direction.
There's a lot of pressure on me to do well, but not many helpful support options.

This may seem like one huge rant but I really feel boxed in.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Hi OP,
Sorry to hear about all of your difficulties. I'm not sure if you're looking for advice or just someone to reach out to and I obviously can't comment on your medical situation, but I'll offer some thoughts.

1. Don't be afraid to cut yourself some slack, you're only a freshman. Ambition is excellent, but if you consistently set your standards too high it's easy to become frustrated and discouraged.
2. The EC's will come with time. It's great that you're looking to get involved with so many things, but ultimately it's your grades that should take precedence. Hopefully your ADHD situation gets resolved in the near future. Work on the foundation of your application before you really get involved with the EC's.
3. Keep working hard. There's a reason why so many freshmen decide to switch out of pre-med paths, it's not easy! If it's really something you want to do though, all of the hard work will be totally worth it in the end.
4. Overall, try not to let the little things bug you. There's going to be TONS of obstacles you encounter throughout undergrad, that's just the nature of the beast. You're doing well, just work on those grades.

 

[ski89]

OP, I agree with Doctor Dreams above recommendations. I would add that persevering though personal struggles is a very valuable part of your transition to adulthood and into a professional. Push through this difficult time in your life and you will not only come out the other side a better person, but you will actually be a much more desirable applicant if you can demonstrate and articulate the growth you have made as a person and how that relates to your role as a future physician.

 

[intangible]

I've had a rough first year so far. My first semester culminated in nearly failing gen chem (C-) and being diagnosed with major depressive disorder (which luckily is being treated quite well now). Just a quick note: The depression was not a result of the bad grades, I had anxiety in high school but my doc and I talked with a psychiatrist who bumped it up to MDD this year. I see a therapist and take meds.

I also believe that I have ADHD (I won't explain the reasons here), but essentially my doc thought I was trying to "score meds" because I didn't have ADHD as a kid (well it wasn't documented or diagnosed).

I have also been having trouble sleeping. He prescribed me melatonin (which is a natural supplement) but that hasn't seemed to help much either (it slowly gets less and less effective to the point where no dosage seems to help). I went to see him again and he just said "make sure you're getting that exercise and eating well". Still not working.

Nothing helped me reduce anxiety and he offered no suggestions for academic improvement. He also took issue with the anti-anxiety medication and told me I should stop taking it. The medication was literally one of the only things helping with the anxiety, so I left him.

Both of my parents are very averse to medications and don't support me getting tested for ADHD. When I get low grades they get angry but we don't have any rational discussions about how I can get more support.

For someone who doesn't want medications, you sure want a whole lot of medications.

I can understand why a prescribing physician might take pause when analyzing your situation. You're not the Wolf on Wall Street, you don't need a drug to counteract every human impulse you find undesirable.

Ideally for you, you'd be on an antidepressant, stimulant, anxiolytic, and hypnotic, throughout the day. That is a whole lot of neuromodulation that seems almost comical.

Be honest to yourself—the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Coming from someone who went through something similar his freshman year (diagnosed ADHD-combined type the summer immediately following freshman year, and kicking ass ever since). You are not your disorder(s)—take responsibility.

 

[kangarooo]

For someone who doesn't want medications, you sure want a whole lot of medications.

I can understand why a prescribing physician might take pause when analyzing your situation. You're not the Wolf on Wall Street, you don't need a drug to counteract every human impulse you find undesirable.

Ideally for you, you'd be on an antidepressant, stimulant, anxiolytic, and hypnotic, throughout the day. That is a whole lot of neuromodulation that seems almost comical.

Be honest to yourself—the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Coming from someone who went through something similar his freshman year (diagnosed ADHD-combined type the summer immediately following freshman year, and kicking ass ever since). You are not your disorder(s)—take responsibility.

No—ideally I wouldn't be on any medications, but there are realities my friend. I have depression so I'm on an anti-depressant. If I do have ADHD then that should be treated too. We don't all have the same physiology and those who have illness should be treated. I would expect more understanding from a prospective physician. I am currently looking to switch physicians. If my physician can't take my troubles seriously then I will seek out a physician who will. Supply/demand

When did I ever say I want both a stimulant and a hypnotic? What I would enjoy is the ability to sleep for 6 hours like normal people. Also it would be redundant to have both an anxiolytic and an antidepressant as the anxiety stems from the depression in my case. Treat the depression and the anxiety will follow.

 

[intangible]

No—ideally I wouldn't be on any medications, but there are realities my friend. I have depression so I'm on an anti-depressant. If I do have ADHD then that should be treated too. We don't all have the same physiology and those who have illness should be treated. I would expect more understanding from a prospective physician. I am currently looking to switch physicians. If my physician can't take my troubles seriously then I will seek out a physician who will. Supply/demand

When did I ever say I want both a stimulant and a hypnotic? What I would enjoy is the ability to sleep for 6 hours like normal people. Also it would be redundant to have both an anxiolytic and an antidepressant as the anxiety stems from the depression in my case. Treat the depression and the anxiety will follow.

You're contradicting yourself—and only casting more suspicion. Your entire justification can be reduced to "I don't want medication, I just need it...because I said so." You're looking for second, third and fourth opinions, waiting for someone with a prescription pad to validate you.

I would continue to discuss non-pharmaceutical alternatives to some of these ailments you bring up, but that would necessitate an acknowledgment of disorder to begin with...which none of your doctors have provided to you.

Success does not come in the form of a pill. No amount of medication will thrust achievement onto you.

 

[Doctor Dream]

No—ideally I wouldn't be on any medications, but there are realities my friend. I have depression so I'm on an anti-depressant. If I do have ADHD then that should be treated too. We don't all have the same physiology and those who have illness should be treated. I would expect more understanding from a prospective physician. I am currently looking to switch physicians. If my physician can't take my troubles seriously then I will seek out a physician who will. Supply/demand

When did I ever say I want both a stimulant and a hypnotic? What I would enjoy is the ability to sleep for 6 hours like normal people. Also it would be redundant to have both an anxiolytic and an antidepressant as the anxiety stems from the depression in my case. Treat the depression and the anxiety will follow.

Don't let @intangible 's douchey comments about your medical situation irritate you OP. He has no right or credentials to comment on what medications you should be on. Keep consulting the proper medical people and hopefully your situation will get resolved.

 

[intangible]

Don't let @intangible 's douchey comments about your medical situation irritate you OP. He has no right or credentials to comment on what medications you should be on. Keep consulting the proper medical people and hopefully your situation will get resolved.

I don't pretend to provide medical advice. The "proper medical people" he's consulted seem to align quite well with my own opinion, though. I don't need an MD to call bull**** when I smell it.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

Take care of yourself first and try premed again later. Take other classes! Make new friends. Avoid toxic influences. You'll end up like almost everyone in the post-bacc forum if you try to push yourself through premed requirements in spite of personal problems. Sure, you may end up doing an extra year, but you won't be doing an extra year two years repeating classes you failed earlier because you were stubborn and took them anyway.

 

[Doctor Dream]

I don't pretend to provide medical advice. The "proper medical people" he's consulted seem to align quite well with my own opinion, though. I don't need an MD to call bull**** when I smell it.

I think OP came here to get away from all that and to vent about his current life situation. You rehashing what doctors have already told him (and appears to have frustrated him) is not going to help at all.

 

[kangarooo]

I don't pretend to provide medical advice. The "proper medical people" he's consulted seem to align quite well with my own opinion, though. I don't need an MD to call bull**** when I smell it.

I've only seen one physician. Believe it or not physicians are not infallible. While my one pediatrician agrees with you, that is not automatically the consensus in the medical community. Apparently the bull**** receptors in your nose are deceiving you.

 

[intangible]

See, I would be more receptive to the OP's argument if he were actually concerned about his symptoms and properly identifying them. His entire post is slanted toward medication—as if diagnosis were only a matter of time.

I would imagine that someone who legitimately displayed clinical symptoms of anxiety, depression, ADHD and insomnia would be dysfunctional at best...and even that is an understatement.

Validating someone's budding drug habit because it appeases them makes you a terrible doctor, plain and simple.

 

[The Helpful Aye Aye]

See, I would be more receptive to the OP's argument if he were actually concerned about his symptoms and properly identifying them. His entire post is slanted toward medication—as if diagnosis were only a matter of time.

I would imagine that someone who legitimately displayed clinical symptoms of anxiety, depression, ADHD and insomnia would be dysfunctional at best...and even that is an understatement.

Validating someone's budding drug habit because it appeases them makes you a terrible doctor, plain and simple.

Okay Nancy Drew. If you make it into medicine, you should open up an online business where you dismiss people's concerns about learning/mental disorders based on the content of their anonymous posts. You'll make a killing.

 

[kangarooo]

See, I would be more receptive to the OP's argument if he were actually concerned about his symptoms and properly identifying them. His entire post is slanted toward medication—as if diagnosis were only a matter of time.

I would imagine that someone who legitimately displayed clinical symptoms of anxiety, depression, ADHD and insomnia would be dysfunctional at best...and even that is an understatement.

Validating someone's budding drug habit because it appeases them makes you a terrible doctor, plain and simple.

Wanting treatment for a valid and legitimate concern is not a drug habit, it's being a concerned patient. Not listening to those valid medical concerns is the problem. I have zero history of any drug addiction or abuse. There is a reason these drugs exist; for when people have legitimate medical conditions. All I'm asking for is a fair evaluation if I have any of the conditions. That's why I'm switching to a doc who will take my problems seriously.

 

[intangible]

Okay Nancy Drew. If you make it into medicine, you should open up an online business where you dismiss people's concerns about learning/mental disorders based on the content of their anonymous posts. You'll make a killing.

Well, to be fair, he did make a highly slanted thread on a forum full of people that are unqualified to make a diagnosis. As for the post's content, all he does is talk about being medicated for conditions OP doesn't know he has (and was dismissed by his/her PCP).

That, and, well, his "hypothetical" thread about prescribing Prozac to himself if he ever does receive a medical degree.

Wanting treatment for a valid and legitimate concern is not a drug habit, it's being a concerned patient. Not listening to those valid medical concerns is the problem. I have zero history of any drug addiction or abuse. There is a reason these drugs exist; for when people have legitimate medical conditions. All I'm asking for is a fair evaluation if I have any of the conditions. That's why I'm switching to a doc who will take my problems seriously.

Actually, it's a drug habit if you're not diagnosed with a valid and legitimate mental disorder, not just a "concern." You know what's concerning? Global warming.

ADHD is not just a concern, it's a pervasive learning disability that has you reading the same page over and over again for over an hour. It's being fascinated with how people function when they're just going about their daily lives, because despite your best effort, you can't do basic tasks without zoning out.

It's more than just school. It's your social life. Your motivation—your overall sense of wellbeing. Being diagnosed and treated for ADHD was probably amongst the most personally revolutionary moments of my life. I went through a battery of tests, rating scales, interviews... my diagnosis was truly comprehensive.

If your doctor is telling you that he needs a sample size greater than 1 to diagnose you, it's not a personal vendetta. It's an expected part of the process. Your PCP is listening, you just want him to push a prescription on you because you think you're entitled to diagnosing yourself.

 

[kangarooo]

Well, to be fair, he did make a highly slanted thread on a forum full of people that are unqualified to make a diagnosis. As for the post's content, all he does is talk about being medicated for conditions OP doesn't know he has (and was dismissed by his/her PCP).

That, and, well, his "hypothetical" thread about prescribing Prozac to himself if he ever does receive a medical degree.



Actually, it's a drug habit if you're not diagnosed with a valid and legitimate mental disorder, not just a "concern." You know what's concerning? Global warming.

ADHD is not just a concern, it's a pervasive learning disability that has you reading the same page over and over again for over an hour. It's being fascinated with how people function when they're just going about their daily lives, because despite your best effort, you can't do basic tasks without zoning out.

It's more than just school. It's your social life. Your motivation—your overall sense of wellbeing. Being diagnosed and treated for ADHD was probably amongst the most personally revolutionary moments of my life. I went through a battery of tests, rating scales, interviews... my diagnosis was truly comprehensive.

If your doctor is telling you that he needs a sample size greater than 1 to diagnose you, it's not a personal vendetta. It's an expected part of the process. Your PCP is listening, you just want him to push a prescription on you because you think you're entitled to diagnosing yourself.

No I am entitled to a fair assessment. My doctor works for me and I am not impressed with the work he has done, so he's fired. That's it... end of story.

The modern ADHD tests are designed to weed out malingerers. It's not just a simple questionnaire anymore. As I said in my original post if I don't have ADHD I will be very glad. I would never wish an illness on myself or others. You know very little about my personal and educational history so to pretend that you have an inkling of an idea about my situation is absurd and ignorant. I'm not asking him to write me prescriptions so I can pop pills all day, but I believe I am entitled to an objective assessment.

As for my other thread about doctors writing their own prescriptions:
It's perfectly reasonable for a premed to be curious about medical ethics and law. Instead of taking the narrow-minded view and assume that people are manipulative and trying to game the system, it would be advisable to see the good side in people. Humans have flaws, there is no doubt in my mind. However, having your pessimistic attitude will not serve you well in life. It's that sort of mistrust that leads to relationship issues, war, and other human troubles.

In fact, having a good understanding of medical ethics and law could serve a candidate well in an interview.

Maintaining a certain degree of pessimism is also advisable, however. If I were my doctor I would be skeptical, but not outright dismiss my complaints. I would have my patient be evaluated with a serious of tests that are designed to weed out malingerers. Complaints of ADHD in adults are something that should be taken with a degree of skepticism but should not be dismissed. It would be very distressing to live my whole life with undiagnosed ADHD.

Ideally I wouldn't possess any of these symptoms and I would be able to live a healthy life.

 

[intangible]

No I am entitled to a fair assessment. My doctor works for me and I am not impressed with the work he has done, so he's fired. That's it... end of story.

The modern ADHD tests are designed to weed out malingerers. It's not just a simple questionnaire anymore. As I said in my original post if I don't have ADHD I will be very glad. I would never wish an illness on myself or others. You know very little about my personal and educational history so to pretend that you have an inkling of an idea about my situation is absurd and ignorant. I'm not asking him to write me prescriptions so I can pop pills all day, but I believe I am entitled to an objective assessment.

Slow down there, speed racer. Your emotional display is unnecessary.

You're misinformed. No test is litmus for the diagnosis of ADHD. The closest thing I can think of that is even remotely used by our faculty is the CPT (Continuous Performance Test), and even that is somewhat unreliable. ADHD is diagnosed by first eliminating all other variables that can mimic its symptoms, then going through a comprehensive interview with the patient, family and all major affiliated persons associated with the patient's care in all respects (in most cases, teachers). Some PCPs use rating scales, others might use computerized or physical tests of attention.

If a computerized test existed to identify any and all disorders, we wouldn't need mental health professionals. In other words, the "objective assessment" you think is being withheld from you because your doctor is "unfair", doesn't actually exist. But you would know that if you bothered to actually learn anything at all about the condition and its diagnosis.

As for my other thread about doctors writing their own prescriptions:
It's perfectly reasonable for a premed to be curious about medical ethics and law. Instead of taking the narrow-minded view and assume that people are manipulative and trying to game the system, it would be advisable to see the good side in people. Humans have flaws, there is no doubt in my mind. However, having your pessimistic attitude will not serve you well in life. It's that sort of mistrust that leads to relationship issues, war, and other human troubles.

In fact, having a good understanding of medical ethics and law could serve a candidate well in an interview.

Maintaining a certain degree of pessimism is also advisable, however. If I were my doctor I would be skeptical, but not outright dismiss my complaints. I would have my patient be evaluated with a serious of tests that are designed to weed out malingerers. Complaints of ADHD in adults are something that should be taken with a degree of skepticism but should not be dismissed. It would be very distressing to live my whole life with undiagnosed ADHD.

Ideally I wouldn't possess any of these symptoms and I would be able to live a healthy life.

Ah, yes. That makes perfect sense!

See, it was all a coincidence that you started a thread about how your doctor refused to give you a prescription, so you began to coincidentally research what the legal repercussions are for prescribing yourself antidepressants...coincidentally. Right.

Let's all join hands and coincidentally sing over a coincidental bonfire, ignoring any shred of reason we are capable of producing.

Give me a break.

 

[kangarooo]

My prozac was prescribed by my doctor for a condition that has caused me a lot of anxiety. The medication has helped me tremendously and for that I thank my doctor. However, I have legitimate concerns about ADHD which he has chosen to ignore. I have every right to fire him as my doctor so I will.

Why do you even care so much? Do you think that I somehow pose a threat by wanting to have my symptoms addressed? ADHD is a serious condition and I deserve a serious evaluation. Is that too much to ask for?

 

[kangarooo]

@intangible I respectfully ask that you please leave this thread. At this point I suspect that you have nothing to add other than that you think I'm malingering. I maintain that I am not malingering and if you do not choose to believe that, so be it. I have very serious ADHD symptoms and it is my opinion that it is disrespectful to dismiss these symptoms.

 

[intangible]

My prozac was prescribed by my doctor for a condition that has caused me a lot of anxiety. The medication has helped me tremendously and for that I thank my doctor. However, I have legitimate concerns about ADHD which he has chosen to ignore. I have every right to fire him as my doctor so I will.

Why do you even care so much? Do you think that I somehow pose a threat by wanting to have my symptoms addressed? ADHD is a serious condition and I deserve a serious evaluation. Is that too much to ask for?

You're free to seek a second opinion. The evaluation you're looking for does not exist. Your doctor has begun the evaluation by asking to interview your parents (you know, the people who have observed your behavior since birth), because their observations are particularly important.

Having your symptoms addressed is fine...nobody is arguing with you there. The problem here is that you don't want to stick around for the evaluation. My point is that the evaluation is the same, no matter where you go or whom you decide to consult. Diagnosis needs to be pretty solid, considering you're prescribing a scheduled drug.

@intangible I respectfully ask that you please leave this thread. At this point I suspect that you have nothing to add other than that you think I'm malingering. I maintain that I am not malingering and if you do not choose to believe that, so be it. I have very serious ADHD symptoms and it is my opinion that it is disrespectful to dismiss these symptoms.

Is that how you treat your doctor, too?

 

[swindoll]

I've had a rough first year so far. My first semester culminated in nearly failing gen chem (C-) and being diagnosed with major depressive disorder (which luckily is being treated quite well now). Just a quick note: The depression was not a result of the bad grades, I had anxiety in high school but my doc and I talked with a psychiatrist who bumped it up to MDD this year. I see a therapist and take meds.

I also believe that I have ADHD (I won't explain the reasons here), but essentially my doc thought I was trying to "score meds" because I didn't have ADHD as a kid (well it wasn't documented or diagnosed). He said if I could get my parents to verify that I had symptoms as a child he would diagnose it. The problem is that my parents are total hippies and "don't believe it's a real disorder" and think that the "medical establishment" is trying to turn everyone into robots, so they won't help. I wish I were kidding about that last sentence. I also went to hippie schools before college and all the "education" there was about "hands on learning" and concentration and focus weren't necessary so teachers didn't make any comments on potential learning disorders.

Now, I have a feeling some of you will agree with the doc here, and that's perfectly fair. But I'm not trying to "score meds" or anything. In fact, all I'm looking for is a fair assessment. If I don't have ADHD, that's great! But I would at least like the chance to know. I'm more interested in the free tutoring available than meds.

I have also been having trouble sleeping. I told my pediatrician who told me I should get more exercise. This seemed like a perfectly reasonable prescription so I started doing cardio 5 times a week with my girlfriend (doc said at least 3 times for half an hour each). It didn't help much so I went to see him again. He prescribed me melatonin (which is a natural supplement) but that hasn't seemed to help much either (it slowly gets less and less effective to the point where no dosage seems to help). I went to see him again and he just said "make sure you're getting that exercise and eating well". Still not working.

I started seeing a therapist which went well for a few weeks. I think it went well because it was just nice to get some things off my chest and explain it to an unbiased party without fearing judgement. However, eventually he started suggesting things such as yoga and herbal teas to relax. I actually have a very open mind about "alternative treatments", so I tried all of them. Nothing helped me reduce anxiety and he offered no suggestions for academic improvement. He also took issue with the anti-anxiety medication and told me I should stop taking it (well he covered his a** by saying we should talk to my doctor about weaning off of it and looking at alternative treatments). The medication was literally one of the only things helping with the anxiety, so I left him.

I don't have a close relationship with my advisor, and whenever I ask for help she basically just says "spend more time studying" or "hire a tutor". She hasn't done anything wrong, I just don't feel like she offers me good support. Both of my parents are very averse to medications and don't support me getting tested for ADHD. When I get low grades they get angry but we don't have any rational discussions about how I can get more support. My girlfriend is the only person that seems to support me 100%, but she doesn't have any professional training so she can really only help me with emotional support.

I applied for a position as an ED scribe but over 40 people were interviewed for 2 positions and everyone else was older and more experienced than I am. I have never even held a paying job before. Quite frankly I feel lucky I even interviewed. I don't think I'll get the job. I can't join a research lab because I haven't finished chem and bio and I don't have great grades (did okay in Bio but chem was awful). I volunteer for my local ambulance service (have for a few years), but we don't get many calls and there is only so much to see in prehospital medicine. I would like to get more experience in the clinical setting. I've done some shadowing but many docs don't respond to cold calls or just don't allow shadowing all together. Those that do allow you to shadow for a shift or two but these are rare.

The campus premed club doesn't have a lot of activities and when they do it's often at a bad time (I'm in lab or something). Most of the activities are geared towards upperclassman (MCAT prep, paying for med school, etc.). There is a "predmed enrichment" program at my school but I don't qualify (it's for minorities and economically disadvantaged students).

In summary:
I feel that I've tried many different paths but I encounter roadblocks at each direction.
There's a lot of pressure on me to do well, but not many helpful support options.

This may seem like one huge rant but I really feel boxed in.

I think the fact that you already realized what you need to do and are seeking help is already a huge step forward!

 

[sliceofbread136]

Don't let @intangible 's douchey comments about your medical situation irritate you OP. He has no right or credentials to comment on what medications you should be on. Keep consulting the proper medical people and hopefully your situation will get resolved.

I don't know, this thread combined with OP's "can doctors write their own refill prescriptions" thread kind of makes me a bit suspicious....

 

[kangarooo]

I don't know, this thread combined with OP's "can doctors write their own refill prescriptions" thread kind of makes me a bit suspicious....

Glad to see the SDN police are out on patrol, keeping us safe from all those nasty malingerers.

 

[JackieChanFan]

@kangaroo
You are only a freshman. There will be plenty of time in your undergraduate career to accumulate ECs and life experiences. For now, taking care of your mental health should be priority #1. My gf has ADHD and I know how frustrated she can get when she tries to study without ritalin. Possible ADHD + MDD & insomnia probably contributed to your bad grades. If I were you, I would go see a psychiatrist, not a pediatrician.

 

[kangarooo]

@kangaroo
You are only a freshman. There will be plenty of time in your undergraduate career to accumulate ECs and life experiences. For now, taking care of your mental health should be priority #1. My gf has ADHD and I know how frustrated she can get when she tries to study without ritalin. Possible ADHD + MDD & insomnia probably contributed to your bad grades. If I were you, I would go see a psychiatrist, not a pediatrician.

That's my plan right now. I'm switching to a new pediatrician from whom I will be requesting a psychiatric referral.

 

[Darth Doc]

That's my plan right now. I'm switching to a new pediatrician from whom I will be requesting a psychiatric referral.

That's the best thing. Talk to the psychiatrist who prescribed your antidepressants about the sleeping problems. Insomnia is a common side effect of SSRIs. You may be better off trying another medication. ADHD treatment in adults often takes care of anxiety and depression problems, so if that's something you have, treatment may solve multiple problems. Forget the pediatrician for this stuff.

And, aren't you 18 yet? Shouldn't you be moving on from a pediatrician?

 

[llamasarefuzzy]

The transition from high school to college can be a tough one, I don't think anyone will argue on that point.
That being said, from the original post, it seems like the OP is very focused on how the world keeps making his life so hard and how he is the victim of hard circumstances. OP- you may want to focus less on the things you can't change (time/place/content of premed meetings, being blocked from research and shadowing) and figure out what YOU can do to improve your chances at medical school. Take a little responsibility and initiative rather than "blaming" outside circumstances.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

Take care of yourself first and try premed again later. Take other classes! Make new friends. Avoid toxic influences. You'll end up like almost everyone in the post-bacc forum if you try to push yourself through premed requirements in spite of personal problems. Sure, you may end up doing an extra year, but you won't be doing an extra year two years repeating classes you failed earlier because you were stubborn and took them anyway.

Retweet to this. The path to becoming a physician can break even healthy people, so I wouldn't make it a priority right now.

 

[kangarooo]

Follow Up:
I received evaluations and testing from several providers (physician, psychologist, and PhD). All agreed that I do in fact have ADHD.

 

[NickNaylor]

You have experienced just about everything (sans potential issues with ADHD) that a typical applicant deals with: difficulty finding shadowing positions, difficulty getting research positions, etc.. This is not new and you're not any more behind in the process than most people.

I don't think you should assume that you can't get a research position "just because you haven't finished bio and chem." I got into a lab during my first semester of college. I went to a mixer for our academic department, met a PI, and started working with him. I had a pub in less than 6 months by helping him with research for a review article. That allowed me to apply into a relatively prestigious summer research program which was an incredible opportunity.

Was that a series of lucky circumstances? Absolutely. But if you don't make the effort to begin with, you don't even give yourself the opportunity to get lucky. The reality is that with research experiences at least, you will likely start out being a free source of labor that requires no real academic skills: cleaning glassware, making gels, etc. etc.. When you prove yourself competent in that role, you will slowly be given more responsibility. Don't be afraid to try and get involved with these positions. In a worst case scenario, you're rejected and you're back to where you started.

As far as shadowing goes, that is unfortunately the name of the game. You're better served trying to find contacts over cold-calling people. If you're at a reasonable-sized university, it's possible that your pre-health office has some contacts available. Try and take advantage of those. Look for summer programs that are clinically oriented for which you might be able to apply. There are many programs like this around if you search hard enough.

With all do respect, the vibe that I get from your post is one of "woe is me." I apologize if that's offensive. But unfortunately no one is going to hold your hand and walk you through this process. Often the difference between people that are very successful and people that aren't so successful is taking the initiative and being proactive about finding experiences that can be beneficial to you. This requires an investment of time and effort that may not pay off in the immediate term. While it would be nice to have an advisor that is helpful, they are not (and shouldn't be thought of as) the key to your success. Hell, I never even met with my pre-health office until a couple of months before I applied.

Start networking, go to every opportunity possible geared toward those interested in applying to medical school (even if the opportunity doesn't seem that useful), and be the strongest advocate for your own success. If you have ADHD, then get that treated, but don't use that as a crutch or an excuse an adopt the mindset of, "if only my ADHD was under control, then I would be experiencing all of the success in the world." If you internalize that you are likely to be disappointed.

Getting into medical school and building yourself into a competitive applicant is not easy. If it were, you wouldn't see the huge attrition rates that you do in pre-med programs at many universities. It's a lot of swimming upstream and pushing ahead even in the face of opposition. But in doing those things, you might find yourself to be more capable than you thought. Often there's a degree of inertia in this kind of thing: all it takes is one or two solid opportunities to open up the doors to many more. Sometimes those initial opportunities may not be things you particularly want to do. Part of maturity and achieving a goal is recognizing that and being willing to see past that initial suck and what could lie ahead.

Good luck.

 

[Law2Doc]

Follow Up:
I received evaluations and testing from several providers (physician, psychologist, and PhD). All agreed that I do in fact have ADHD.

I don't know if you have ADHD or not. But I do know if you are convinced you have an ailment and fire you current doctor and go searching for another that will buy into the self diagnosis you already made, you will find someone to write you a script and validate you. Doesn't make your story as convincing as if the diagnosis originated with the doctor. If a patient comes to a doctor saying I'm worried i have X you as the doctor are far more likely to try a trial dose med for X than if a patient just comes with some non-specific symptoms. Essentially you have gamed the system.

 

[kangarooo]

I don't know if you have ADHD or not. But I do know if you are convinced you have an ailment and fire you current doctor and go searching for another that will buy into the self diagnosis you already made, you will find someone to write you a script and validate you. Doesn't make your story as convincing as if the diagnosis originated with the doctor. If a patient comes to a doctor saying I'm worried i have X you as the doctor are far more likely to try a trial dose med for X than if a patient just comes with some non-specific symptoms. Essentially you have gamed the system.

No I fired a physician who wouldn't give me a fair evaluation.

 

[NickNaylor]

No I fired a physician who wouldn't give me a fair evaluation.

Based on what, though? How do you know if it's fair or not?

 

[kangarooo]

Based on what, though? How do you know if it's fair or not?

Outright dismissing me the first time I bring it up isn't fair. Giving me a comprehensive psychoanalytical evaluation is a fair assessment.

I'm inclined to trust the judgment of the 2 MDs, 1 PhD, and 1 psychologist (MA) who all agreed I have ADHD after a comprehensive evaluation. The evaluation took several hours over a couple of weeks.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

Outright dismissing me the first time I bring it up isn't fair. Giving me a comprehensive psychoanalytical evaluation is a fair assessment.

I'm inclined to trust the judgment of the 2 MDs, 1 PhD, and 1 psychologist (MA) who all agreed I have ADHD after a comprehensive evaluation. The evaluation took several hours over a couple of weeks.

So are the two MD's helping you out with medication/treatment?

 

[Law2Doc]

Outright dismissing me the first time I bring it up isn't fair. Giving me a comprehensive psychoanalytical evaluation is a fair assessment...

Well good medical practice means you don't just give tests unless you feel there's a legitimate reason to. if you test someone for enough things you can find something "wrong" with the healthiest of patients. This doctor you "fired" knew you for a while and didn't think you warranted testing. So You went shopping around for another doctor who doesn't know you as well and would buy what you were selling. It doesn't make me as the reader convinced the first doctor was wrong and the second right. It just means you self diagnosed a Disorder and shopped around until you found someone else who would buy in. Patients do this all the time -- there are tons of patients out there looking for someone who will give them the diagnosis/ prescription they want, and these "tests" are vague enough that a doctor looking for business can give the persistent patient what he wants. You might have ADHD or you might not, but the fact you needed to shop for a doctor to give you a comprehensive test for ADHD makes the diagnosis less credible than if a doctor came to that conclusion that you should be tested on his own before you did. You gamed the system, like hundreds of other patients out there. That's not about "fair" or trusting the judgement of people you shopped around for.
when you are dealing with vague symptoms and fuzzy tests there will always be differences of opinions and if you shop around you can find one you like better. That's fine, but let's not kid ourselves that this gives you some sort of validation. When you start with the diagnosis and then shop for the test to validate it that's just not really good medicine. If your first doctor on his own said, "your symptoms make me wonder about ADHD", that's just a totally different story than firing your first doctor for not entertaining your suggestion of the diagnosis, and more or less makes the rest of the story sketchier.

 

[intangible]

You gamed the system, like hundreds of other patients out there. That's not about "fair" or trusting the judgement of people you shopped around for.

Hm! That sounds a whole lot like something I've said before, OP. 😉

P.S.: My diagnosis took over a month and a half to make. I find it very hard to believe that you actually saw three independent docs and they all "agreed" you have ADHD.

 

[Satire5Texul]

My question to you is are you really applying yourself and trying your hardest ?

When you think of yourself as a machine, what efficient are you running at. We All know machines are never 100% efficient, but are you well up in your 90% of trying your hardest ?

Someone posted a video on SDN that had me sleeping in my car in order to try my hardest for the last week of studying for physics:




Gonna re-watch for the 3929492 time in the last few days.



My impression of you, if I may be frank, is that you are doing an okay job at finding resources, but don’t expect them to work for you. You have to work for them. If your advisor says “hire a tutor” then tell them what specifically you are struggling with, like I don’t get the problem-based solving in X and Y class, what do I do about getting more math-based practice.


Premed clubs are notorious for running their own agenda, and at least in my experience, most of the people that were exceptional candidates for medical school avoided them. They are not your only gate to medical school information. There are numerous clubs, I am sure of it, on campus that will help you get passionate about something that will captivate your interest and that can be translated to on paper for medical school admissions. Everyone is part of the premed club, not many people are looking to get into medical school and part of the beekeepers club, horticulture, graphic design, architecture, modern art, etc.


Continue to see the therapist. My advice to you, keep in mind I am not a health professional and not dosing out advise from that perspective, but that ADHD drugs are a bandage for a much bigger problem or even problems that MAY be fixed without their use. Like first-year adjustments to college curriculum.

I think you are doing an exceptional job being aware of what your surroundings may offer you. But don’t forget its just first year. Grades are more important than building a resume for clinical research. You are right some labs want higher level sciences, so do good on the low-level sciences so that when you get there you will be able to master the material and apply for a bigger and better research lab of your liking.


Again you came here for advise so my interpretation of what you wrote: there is lack of passion in your tone. You already know medicine doesn’t come on a platter for most people, its highly competitive, as you observed with scribe apps. So if you are going make it through medicine, you are going to need to light a fire for that passion you have for it. You cannot just skate by, you have to spend time focused, away from everything else working your hardest towards each class and activity for the given semester.


Watch the video. He will have a pair of matches and fire ready

 

[kangarooo]

Hm! That sounds a whole lot like something I've said before, OP. 😉

P.S.: My diagnosis took over a month and a half to make. I find it very hard to believe that you actually saw three independent docs and they all "agreed" you have ADHD.

Well you are disagreeing with the medical consensus. At this point your input is redundant as I have officially been diagnosed with ADHD.

 

[DrShephardWannabe]

Well you are disagreeing with the medical consensus. At this point your input is redundant as I have officially been diagnosed with ADHD.

Like Satire5Texul said, an ADHD diagnosis/meds won't fix a pessimistic attitude that might exist underneath it all. Not to say your whole problem could be the attitude but make sure you aren't sitting there going "None of this is working, I can't concentrate, why bother."