I hate dental school...

[dentalWorks]

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No theres nothing wronng with it. just that you nee d like a 14 dat score and a 2.0 gpa and also some other qualification. just is probly not a very hard school

that is a very immature statement and for your sakes, I hope you were kidding.

You do realize that howard takes in students with SERIOUSLY messed up backgrounds.... Students who lived in real bad areas and never had any educational support but still wanted to pursue a career in healthcare.

 

[Andre3k]

Sorry, but there is no such thing as a dental school that is not very hard. There is simply too much information to be learned for it to be "easy". Also, undergraduate GPA and DAT don't necessarily correlate with a student's potential to succeed in dental school. What matters more is persistance, dedication, and time spent studying. Howard is currently accredited without any reporting requirements, so they are doing a good enough job of educating their students in the eyes of the ADEA.

Exactly. And I did well on the DAT and had a good GPA.

 

[Andre3k]

You're in Howard - what are you complaining about?

What dental school do you go to again?
Please only talk about what you know. I understand this comment coming from the outside looking in. But the bottom line is every dental school is perfectly capable of preparing you to become a qualified dentist. There are no shortcuts.

 

[Andre3k]

I don't get why everything has to be made into a race issue

Exactly. Not only that. There are only 15 black students in my class out of 80. The rest are white, Indian, Puerto Rican, Canadian, Russian, the lists goes on. There are about 20 different nationalities represented in my class alone. Its probably the most diverse class in the nation. So if they were making this a race issue then I'm not sure what race they were referring to.

Howard just accepts students that otherwise would not have a chance or that may have had unfavorable circumstances which may have affected their grades. There are people of all races that may fit this description. In todays society people of color just so happen to fit that description more often.

 

[sciencegod]

Exactly. Not only that. There are only 15 black students in my class out of 80. The rest are white, Indian, Puerto Rican, Canadian, Russian, the lists goes on.

Yeah but thats 100% of the black population in dental school. besides for the smart ones they go to harvard

 

[dl9006]

Yeah but thats 100% of the black population in dental school. besides for the smart ones that go to harvard

you're setting yourself up for a big backlash. lol

 

[lotexigeus]

I don't agree with most of what sciencegod is saying, but i do think that the most qualified applicants should be able to gain admission and become part of the dental profession, no matter what race they are.

 

[Andre3k]

Yeah but thats 100% of the black population in dental school. besides for the smart ones that go to harvard

Let me get this straight.
So you are saying that 100% of the black people in dental school made it in because they are from disadvantaged backgrounds. Except for the smart ones that go to Harvard. Is that right?

Here is the situation man. Many/Most black children grow up at a disadvantage when compared to white people. Whether that be as a result of the quality of education offered to them in their community, as a result of family issues, as a result of economic hardship, etc. In America their are more black children from disadvantaged backgrounds than white people from disadvantaged backgrounds. Therefore often times black children don't do as well in school. However, this does not mean that black children aren't as smart or smarter than children from other races. Instead of just rejecting all black students whose grades aren't up to the same level as students from other races, schools are considerate to the fact there might be other circumstances in that students life besides lack of intelligence that may have resulted in subpar grades. Therefore dental schools accept more black students with below average GPAS and DATS than they do white people.
Is that not logical to you?
Howard accepts many students in this situation. All dental schools to a certain extent accept students in this way. This is the case for most (not 100%) of the black students in dental school.

Not all black students are from disadvantaged backgrounds so some black students get into dental schools because they have had a chance to achieve higher scores.

 

[Andre3k]

I don't agree with most of what sciencegod is saying, but i do think that the most qualified applicants should be able to gain admission and become part of the dental profession, no matter what race they are.

I see what you are saying, it is very rational. However you cant just assume that everyone is on the same playing field in this country because different races have different experiences. If every student in the country received the same quality of education, had the same socioeconomic status, weren't discriminated against, etc. Then the only thing that would be left to distinguish the most qualified students would be academic performance (grades, dats scores, research, etc.) Because all other things would be equal. But this is not the reality of the world.
This is why some less academically qualified students gain admission over some that are more academically qualified. It evens things out when you consider the entire picture of someones life rather than just a few numbers.

 

[teeth63a]

You do realize that howard takes in students with SERIOUSLY messed up backgrounds.... Students who lived in real bad areas and never had any educational support but still wanted to pursue a career in healthcare.

We in the real world call that "social justice", ie a position earned not by one's personal merit, but by one's personal disadvantaged economic status.

Would you rather be treated by a dentist who was a good student and did well in dental school? Or be treated by a dentist who only got in to fill the school's affirmative action quota?

To put it another way: do you select your mechanic, obstetrician, or hairdresser based on their race or how messed up their background was? I sure don't. I look for the best qualified person.

 

[teeth63a]

I don't see how dental school could be stripped down to 2 years, unless it was a 12 hour day, 5 days a week.

If 4 years is too long, go to UOP and do it in 3. And I'll tell you 3 years wasn't easy.

 

[dentalWorks]

We in the real world call that "social justice", ie a position earned not by one's personal merit, but by one's personal disadvantaged economic status.

Would you rather be treated by a dentist who was a good student and did well in dental school? Or be treated by a dentist who only got in to fill the school's affirmative action quota?

To put it another way: do you select your mechanic, obstetrician, or hairdresser based on their race or how messed up their background was? I sure don't. I look for the best qualified person.

Affirmative action? Let me ask you a question, Are you saying that if a person who got in because of "affirmative action" and earned his DDS isn't as qualified as a person who got in because of high "qualifications"? A person who earns his DDS from this country is as qualified as everyone else who earned that same degree. Sure there are dentists that are better than others, but thats not dictated by the person's past/background but rather by thier work ethic.

I would have NO PROBLEM whatsoever going to a dentist, irrespective of why/how they got into dental school as long as they are competent.

 

[sciencegod]

We in the real world call that "social justice", ie a position earned not by one's personal merit, but by one's personal disadvantaged economic status.

Would you rather be treated by a dentist who was a good student and did well in dental school? Or be treated by a dentist who only got in to fill the school's affirmative action quota?

To put it another way: do you select your mechanic, obstetrician, or hairdresser based on their race or how messed up their background was? I sure don't. I look for the best qualified person.

FINALLY!! someone with some sense! i couldnty have sauid it myself better i want the best qualified person to be my dentist not some quack who got in becauuse when he was born he came out a certain skin color.

and no, you dont only have to be from a disadvantaged backgroung. blacks and hispnaics have a much higher chance of getting in even if they was in a completely advantaged background.

also look at barac obama. whyd he become the president

 

[askadds]

You're in Howard - what are you complaining about?

you're an idiot.

 

[sciencegod]

you're an idiot.

im not going to lower myself to respond to you. if your just going to resort to name calling aand not making any logical arguments.

the name calling and charicter attacks just shows that your the idiot!!

 

[psi169]

im not going to lower myself to respond to you. if your just going to resort to name calling aand not making any logical arguments.

the name calling and charicter attacks just shows that your the idiot!!

I believe its, "your're the idiot."

 

[dentist1234]

I believe its, "your're the idiot."

I believe it's "you're the idiot", idiot.

 

[psi169]

I believe it's "you're the idiot", idiot.

?

 

[Andrew324]

I believe its, "your're the idiot."

I believe it's "you're the idiot", idiot.

?

See the bolded R in your first statement PSI

 

[tinman831]

Enough with the insults.

 

[sciencegod]

Enough with the insults.

i second the mocion

 

[askadds]

i second the mocion

which dental school do you attend?

 

[sciencegod]

The rest are white, Indian, Puerto Rican, Canadian, Russian, the lists goes on.

what about ameirican?

 

[sciencegod]

which dental school do you attend?

yale

 

[agent2362]

yale

hahahahaha... ya'll are nuts... yale dental school. yeah i bet you're first in your class too

 

[sciencegod]

hahahahaha... ya'll are nuts... yale dental school. yeah i bet you're first in your class too

actualy im third in my class. but im gonna soon be number one. i always am number one because i am sciencegod

 

[Drabuisa]

We in the real world call that "social justice", ie a position earned not by one's personal merit, but by one's personal disadvantaged economic status.

Would you rather be treated by a dentist who was a good student and did well in dental school? Or be treated by a dentist who only got in to fill the school's affirmative action quota?

To put it another way: do you select your mechanic, obstetrician, or hairdresser based on their race or how messed up their background was? I sure don't. I look for the best qualified person.

I definitely agree, but with schools such as Howard and other dental schools to a lesser degree, It is not that the students are accepted because they had a messed up background or because of their race. The problem is that many students are extremely qualified and showed that they were extremely qualified, but on paper the numbers don't add up because of an outside factor that affected their grades ON PAPER.

Example: I graduate from high school with a 3.7 gpa. Become first generation to go to college and maintain a 3.5 or above for a few years. Because my parents are on drugs or in jail, I have to take care of my younger 4 siblings who are between the ages of 9 and 14. I have to go to welfare office a few times a month, court to deal with family issues, work, father dying from liver cancer, etc. As a result my grades suffer and I finish with a 3.0 or slightly above and my DAT is between 18 and 20. Now, I am definitely qualified and have shown that by my previous grades and it's obvious that the outside factors are the issue, but many dental schools will throw my stuff out at the door because of the final grades without taking into account that I don't need extra help and I'm not stupid or under qualified compared to the next applicant. The next applicant just was able to study while I was at welfare, court, etc. If we had the same playing field, my grades would have been higher than their grades. Howard or Meharry (some other schools as well) will not throw your stuff out at the door and will take into account the entire situation and this has damn near nothing to do with race.

So, everyone needs to understand that you are not just born black or whatever, have a rough life, get a bad education therefore you're not as qualified and then enjoy being accepted into medical or dental school while everyone else has to work for it. If that was the case then HELL YEAH I would call that unfair.

And it also just plain sucks that you can be extremely successful in D-school, have outstanding "National" board scores, graduate and as soon as you say you are from Howard, you are automatically considered less qualified than the next😕. Come on people! That's bull

 

[Drabuisa]

We in the real world call that "social justice", ie a position earned not by one's personal merit, but by one's personal disadvantaged economic status.

Would you rather be treated by a dentist who was a good student and did well in dental school? Or be treated by a dentist who only got in to fill the school's affirmative action quota?

To put it another way: do you select your mechanic, obstetrician, or hairdresser based on their race or how messed up their background was? I sure don't. I look for the best qualified person.

I definitely agree, but with schools such as Howard and other dental schools to a lesser degree, It is not that the students are accepted because they had a messed up background or because of their race. The problem is that many students are extremely qualified and showed that they were extremely qualified, but on paper the numbers don't add up because of an outside factor that affected their grades ON PAPER.

Example: I graduate from high school with a 3.7 gpa. Become first generation to go to college and maintain a 3.5 or above for a few years. Because my parents are on drugs or in jail, I have to take care of my younger 4 siblings who are between the ages of 9 and 14. I have to go to welfare office a few times a month, court to deal with family issues, work, father dying from liver cancer, etc. As a result my grades suffer and I finish with a 3.0 or slightly above and my DAT is between 18 and 20. Now, I am definitely qualified and have shown that by my previous grades and it's obvious that the outside factors are the issue, but many dental schools will throw my stuff out at the door because of the final grades without taking into account that I don't need extra help and I'm not stupid or under qualified compared to the next applicant. The next applicant just was able to study while I was at welfare, court, etc. If we had the same playing field, my grades would have been higher than their grades. Howard or Meharry (some other schools as well) will not throw your stuff out at the door and will take into account the entire situation and this has damn near nothing to do with race.

So, everyone needs to understand that you are not just born black or whatever, have a rough life, get a bad education therefore you're not as qualified and then enjoy being accepted into medical or dental school while everyone else has to work for it. If that was the case then HELL YEAH I would call that unfair.

And it also just plain sucks that you can be extremely successful in D-school, have outstanding "National" board scores, graduate and as soon as you say you are from Howard, you are automatically considered less qualified than the next😕. Come on people! That's bull

 

[UCSDPDS]

What I don't understand is that why aren't asians considered minorities when applying to health professional schools. I understand the long history of discrimination black people have endured in America but that's not to say that us immigrants from Asia were not discriminated against. We also came from a lower socioeconomic back ground not knowing a word of English and are often ridiculed as the chinks or the fobs. And yes we also went to the same school that Hispanics go to (at least in CA it is). I am not comparing the hardship that different races go through and who has it tougher. I am just saying that we 're all immigrants are given an opportunity in America that millions do not have so why are we treated differently than other races. This is not a rant nor an attack on any races but simply my opinion. And yes I do know that life is not fair.

 

[Andre3k]

We in the real world call that "social justice", ie a position earned not by one's personal merit, but by one's personal disadvantaged economic status.

Would you rather be treated by a dentist who was a good student and did well in dental school? Or be treated by a dentist who only got in to fill the school's affirmative action quota?

To put it another way: do you select your mechanic, obstetrician, or hairdresser based on their race or how messed up their background was? I sure don't. I look for the best qualified person.

what you are saying is completely illogical. you cannot get out of dental school and become a dentist with out being qualified. everyone in every dental school has to pass the same boards, learn the same things, and pass by their own personal merit. regardless of how we all got in we are the same coming out. we are all qualified. I really dont see how you can logically argue otherwise.

I think we all really just have to agree to disagree. some people are very close minded and base what they believe solely off of what they see and not on the big picture.

 

[Andre3k]

What I don't understand is that why aren't asians considered minorities when applying to health professional schools. I understand the long history of discrimination black people have endured in America but that's not to say that us immigrants from Asia were not discriminated against. We also came from a lower socioeconomic back ground not knowing a word of English and are often ridiculed as the chinks or the fobs. And yes we also went to the same school that Hispanics go to (at least in CA it is). I am not comparing the hardship that different races go through and who has it tougher. I am just saying that we 're all immigrants are given an opportunity in America that millions do not have so why are we treated differently than other races. This is not a rant nor an attack on any races but simply my opinion. And yes I do know that life is not fair.

I agree.

 

[DrReo]

What I don't understand is that why aren't asians considered minorities when applying to health professional schools..

Why does everyone want to be considered a minority these days?

How about no one includes your race on the application and your name is solely a number that AADSAS randomly generates and see who is accepted/given interviews completely based by merit.

 

[Palmetto914]

what you are saying is completely illogical. you cannot get out of dental school and become a dentist with out being qualified. everyone in every dental school has to pass the same boards, learn the same things, and pass by their own personal merit. regardless of how we all got in we are the same coming out. we are all qualified. I really dont see how you can logically argue otherwise.

I think we all really just have to agree to disagree. some people are very close minded and base what they believe solely off of what they see and not on the big picture.

Exactly...except for the agree to disagree part. Quite a few comments in this thread (icluding the "mechanic" one to which you replied) are showing an alarming degree of IGNORANCE. And ignorance isn't something that should be tolerated.

I don't care if you're white, black, hispanic, asian, had poor DAT scores, good DAT scores, whatever. If you made it through dental school then obviously you were qualified to be accepted to dental school. I could give a **** less about your background

I would go on and start ripping into some of these ignorant people on here, but I don't want to be mean...Just think before you post, people!

 

[Andre3k]

Why does everyone want to be considered a minority these days?

How about no one includes your race on the application and your name is solely a number that AADSAS randomly generates and see who is accepted/given interviews completely based by merit.

That wouldn't be fair. Other factors besides grades should be considered. Race should be taken in to consideration. Different races fight different battles.

 

[dentist1234]

what you are saying is completely illogical. you cannot get out of dental school and become a dentist with out being qualified. everyone in every dental school has to pass the same boards, learn the same things, and pass by their own personal merit. regardless of how we all got in we are the same coming out. we are all qualified. I really dont see how you can logically argue otherwise.

So, according to your logic, all professional basketball players are equally talented. After all, they were qualified to get into the NBA. With all due respect, your argument is ridiculous. Graduating from dental school means you have met the minimum requirements for being a dentist. Obviously, every dentist has a different level of competence, and getting into a dental school largely because of race and economic difficulty can be an indication that the dentist in question is perhaps not as qualified as another dentist.

 

[dl9006]

That wouldn't be fair. Other factors besides grades should be considered. Race should be taken in to consideration. Different races fight different battles.

why wouldn't it be fair? DrReo's proposal makes perfect sense
just look at the socio-economic background of each applicant and not their race. if an applicant came from a difficult background then why should race matter? they still overcame the same obstacles that a urm would have

a non-urm applicant who lived in a ghetto shouldn't be considered the same as an urm applicant who lived in the same neighborhood? try explaining the logic behind that.


edit:
anyways, i just realized that this may turn into another affirmative action debate. i'm sure there already has been tons of debate on sdn on that topic.

let's just leave it at this and not start another redundant debate.

besides i think the original purpose of this thread was to help the OP get through dental school. this is way off topic. good job sciencegod for starting this

 

[sciencegod]

edit:
anyways, i just realized that this may turn into another affirmative action debate. i'm sure there already has been tons of debate on sdn on that topic.

let's just leave it at this and not start another redundant debate.

besides i think the original purpose of this thread was to help the OP get through dental school. this is way off topic. good job sciencegod for starting this

well i wasnt trying to start a afirmative action debate. just some minoriies always are looking to exploit theyre race to get further than they are qualified

 

[Palmetto914]

just some minoriies always are looking to exploit theyre race to get further than they are qualified

...What an inceredibly ignorant and offensive comment.

 

[dentalstudent00]

I believe it's "you're the idiot", idiot.

Actually, I believe it's "you're the idiot," idiot. Now quit being so knit-picky, especially when you failed to correct the statement in its entirety.

 

[Atticus]

Ehh... could you all stop hijacking a previously excellent thread?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dentist1234]

Actually, I believe it's "you're the idiot," idiot. Now quit being so knit-picky, especially when you failed to correct the statement in its entirety.

To be totally accurate, the comma placement varies by locale. My sentence follows the British system; since the punctuation belongs to to the sentence that contains the quotation and not to the quotation per se, the comma would go outside of the quotation marks. But you are correct in saying that in American practice the comma is always placed within the quotation marks.

 

[dl9006]

well i wasnt trying to start a afirmative action debate. just some minoriies always are looking to exploit theyre race to get further than they are qualified

👎

 

[Andre3k]

why wouldn't it be fair? DrReo's proposal makes perfect sense
just look at the socio-economic background of each applicant and not their race. if an applicant came from a difficult background then why should race matter? they still overcame the same obstacles that a urm would have

a non-urm applicant who lived in a ghetto shouldn't be considered the same as an urm applicant who lived in the same neighborhood? try explaining the logic behind that.


edit:
anyways, i just realized that this may turn into another affirmative action debate. i'm sure there already has been tons of debate on sdn on that topic.

let's just leave it at this and not start another redundant debate.

besides i think the original purpose of this thread was to help the OP get through dental school. this is way off topic. good job sciencegod for starting this

I agree with what you are saying here. I thought that the person I quoted was saying that all you need to do is look at grades and the most academically qualified should get in. My arguement against that was you need to look at other things aside from just grades. I was just saying use race as a way of inferring a students socio-economic background. But you are right a more accurate way would be assess each persons socioeconomic status individually regardless of race.
I think schools use race a shortcut. Assuming that because most people from a certain race have it bad more often then its more efficient to conclude that most applicants of that race had a disadvantage.

 

[Andre3k]

well i wasnt trying to start a afirmative action debate. just some minoriies always are looking to exploit theyre race to get further than they are qualified

You are racist man. Fine you win. All minorities are dumb and they don't ever earn what they receive in life. They just get everything handed to them. I really don't understand why everyone doesn't think like this.

 

[dl9006]

I agree with what you are saying here. I thought that the person I quoted was saying that all you need to do is look at grades and the most academically qualified should get in. My arguement against that was you need to look at other things aside from just grades. I was just saying use race as a way of inferring a students socio-economic background. But you are right a more accurate way would be assess each persons socioeconomic status individually regardless of race.
I think schools use race a shortcut. Assuming that because most people from a certain race have it bad more often then its more efficient to conclude that most applicants of that race had a disadvantage.

makes sense.

 

[UCSDPDS]

Why does everyone want to be considered a minority these days?

How about no one includes your race on the application and your name is solely a number that AADSAS randomly generates and see who is accepted/given interviews completely based by merit.

DrReo I think you completely misunderstood me. If application and name is solely a number game and no race is included on the AADSAS and selection is based on merit then I would completely support that but the fact is it isn't. What I am saying is that we have a group of minorities (blacks, hispanics, and asians) all experienced "circumstances" yet only blacks and hispanics's circumstances are recognized.

discrimination? check
parents are blue collar workers? check
first generation to go to college? check
come from a socioeconomic disadvantaged background (not knowing a word of English)? check

The biggest difference that sets asians apart from blacks and hispanics is that in asian culture education is emphasized first and foremost. Because of this we often see jokes about "typical asian parents" or "asians are smart and good in math". Just because asians do not live in compton or the projects does that mean we did not have to overcome obstacles and face the difficult "circumstances" that blacks and hispanics faced?? Tell me the logic in that. We all know that blacks and hispanics continuously get in professional schools with lower stats and I have nothing against that. My problem is the standard doesn't hold true for asians despite the fact that we had the same difficulties. I'll leave it at that and if you can understand that then oh well. Oh yea did i mention i know life is not fair.

 

[teeth63a]

what you are saying is completely illogical. you cannot get out of dental school and become a dentist with out being qualified. everyone in every dental school has to pass the same boards, learn the same things, and pass by their own personal merit. regardless of how we all got in we are the same coming out. we are all qualified. I really dont see how you can logically argue otherwise.

I think we all really just have to agree to disagree. some people are very close minded and base what they believe solely off of what they see and not on the big picture.

Reread what I wrote. I don't care about getting out. I'm talking about getting in. I make perfect logical sense.

My last entry on the matter. We're to the point in society where we are now disqualifying people from promotion because they are not of the politically correct skin color. In a huge reversal of current supreme court Judge Sotomayor's ruling as an appeals judge, the SC found that white firefighters in Connecticut suffered from reverse discrimination when they were passed up for promotion to make way for affirmative action promotions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31609275/

It's common sense people. Advance yourself through merit, not through political correctness. This is 2010, not 1959.

 

[teeth63a]

Affirmative action? Let me ask you a question, Are you saying that if a person who got in because of "affirmative action" and earned his DDS isn't as qualified as a person who got in because of high "qualifications"?

I would have NO PROBLEM whatsoever going to a dentist, irrespective of why/how they got into dental school as long as they are competent.

1) Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Listen to yourself. You just conceded that people get in via affirmative action, not by their own qualification.

2) Again like the other guy, I don't care about the end result of how good a dentist is at the end, I'm talking about getting in.

See my post about the Connecticut firefighters.

But don't bother answering, I'm done arguing with predents and students.

 

[Palmetto914]

1) Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Listen to yourself. You just conceded that people get in via affirmative action, not by their own qualification.

2) Again like the other guy, I don't care about the end result of how good a dentist is at the end, I'm talking about getting in.

See my post about the Connecticut firefighters.

But don't bother answering, I'm done arguing with predents and students.

Not by their own qualifications? Oh, so GPA and DAT score are what you mean by "qualifications" ? You tell me who is more qualified to get into dental school:

Person A--This person came from a good home, in a decent neighborhood where it wasn't a big deal to take a stroll at night. Mom and dad were there, both worked, made every baseball game, stayed on top of their kid when it came to grades, being perfectly ok with B's. The kid didn't really do anything beyond any other average student. They got into a good university (dad was an alum, too!), and averaged a 3.5 as a biology major. 20's across the board on the DAT, shadowed, volunteered in order to spruce up the app, etc.

Person B--This person came from a not-so-good home. Mom was addicted to drugs, and dad wasn't in the picture (or a parent worked 3 jobs, was in prison, simply left, whatever). The kid lived in a roach-infested apartment, in a building full of drugs and guns, in a neighborhood of theft, gunshots, etc. The school was dangerous, too, and it spent more on security than education. Yet the kid worked hard, stayed on top of things, and managed to graduate high school with a 3.5 and get into the local university. With no financial support from family, the kid worked full-time, went to classes, and managed a 3.0 as a biology major. There wasn't a whole lot of time to study for the DAT, but the kid managed an 18 across the board. They only managed a few shadowing hours, but there wasn't a whole lot time for volunteer/EC's, either.

So, which one is more qualified? I'd say both are qualified applicants. In fact, I'd even go so far to say that it takes a lot more drive, discipline, and dedication to pull off what Person B did than Person A.

 

[psi169]

Please just stop. Affirmative action is up there with religion and abortion-- its one of those topics that people feel so passionately about that they don't readily change their minds. Nothing you say is going to make the other feel any differently and they are probably so fired up, they aren't reading what you are saying.

So just agree to disagree and walk away.