I just couldn't help myself....

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
At a minimum, this should be an opportunity to do away with RadBio/Physics and roll a few small, key concepts from those exams into a single exam taken at the end of residency.

I personally disagree.

The field of radiation oncology is already RIFE for favoritism and nepotism. I get a lot of personal pleasure out of knowing that everyone is assessed by oral & written boards that apply a uniform standard, regardless of your personal connections, gender, race, last name, or institution.

I don't love studying for boards but at least everyone has to do it. If anything, we should have MORE boards in the form of maintenance examinations for BC radiation oncologists, so the 65+ country club gang can be held to proper standards too.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I personally disagree.

The field of radiation oncology is already RIFE for favoritism and nepotism. I get a lot of personal pleasure out of knowing that everyone is assessed by oral & written boards that apply a uniform standard, regardless of your personal connections, gender, race, last name, or institution.

I don't love studying for boards but at least everyone has to do it. If anything, we should have MORE boards in the form of maintenance examinations for BC radiation oncologists, so the 65+ country club gang can be held to proper standards too.

While I understand and agree with you to a certain degree in a general sense, RadBio/Physics accentuates the disparities between programs even more, with the existence of recalls in certain departments. This has been discussed ad-nauseum here after the 2018 Debacle, but I specifically take issue with these two, not so much clinical/orals/MOC.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 1 users
truly aweful applicants. Some very low quality applicants matched this year, some of you may want to hire soon.
But... Aren't those applicants "more committed to cancer patients" as is widely promulgated on Twitter???
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
But... Aren't those applicants "more committed to cancer patients" as is widely promulgated on Twitter???

There are different categories

1) people that are great applicants that stuck with rad onc out of genuine interest (like the people who go into other fields that aren’t super competitive. Just because rad onc has had lots of opportunistic sharks who weren’t into derm who chose it over the years, lest we forget some people go into fields because of passion or interest too)

2) people that are terrible applicants who only matched this year because of some (NOT all) rad onc programs that will take any warm body

Smartest guy I met in Med school went into pathology
 
This whole residency and board exam system is supposedly in place to protect the public from incompetent doctors. However, now we have:

1) The ACGME coming out and repeatedly saying case load doesn't matter, just the subjective judgement of the PD/CCC.
2) Written boards postponed.
3) Oral boards postponed.

- but -

4) Everyone will seemingly be allowed to move forward with their careers unhindered.

I know, I get it - extraordinary circumstances. However, would a commercial airliner be allowed to fly with passengers if it didn't pass a final safety inspection? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no. That final safety inspection is essential. Someone who survives 4 years of medical school and 5 years of residency doesn't need all these hoops - and most specialties seem to recognize that.

FOUR board exams is ridiculous. Do PGY-2 Internal Medicine residents have to take board exams where the mechanisms of fluoroquinolone Q-T prolongation are tested? Are they studying cutaway diagrams of ventilators and their mechanical parts? Being asked about the historical materials used to build a chest tube? What would be the reaction if this was proposed?

At a minimum, this should be an opportunity to do away with RadBio/Physics and roll a few small, key concepts from those exams into a single exam taken at the end of residency. The relative merits (or lack thereof) of oral boards is a whole different debate that also deserves attention, but still.

Come on, ABR. This is your chance to embrace change and save face while doing it.
What's this case load / discretion of PD issue? Thanks
 
In time of COVID-19, due to concernsa bout not meeting adequate numbers for graduation, ACGME is allowing PDs/CCCs to make subjective decisions for those who have not met their numbers about whether they are competent enough to graduate or not.

This is true through ACGME across all fields and I feel would have a minimal impact on any good RO program. Other fields with concerns about 'numbers' (like surgeons, FM, etc.) are having them be at PD's discretion due to COVID-19 similarly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
does anybody know if other fields are more specific in their case requirements? For example, does general surgery specify how many open vs lap procedures vs robotic, how many cholecystecomies, how many bowel resections, etc etc. does ENT say you have to do these many neck dissections, these many sinus surgeries etc? or is this a general blanket like "abdominal surgeries" or "head and neck surgeries". Our requirements are way too general. We should absolutely specify minimal requirements to achieve competency in every subsite (from Peds to lymphoma, to SRS/SBRT (within SBRT, must have a broad experience including liver, etc etc), to T&O and interstitial gyn, HDR/LDR prostate etc etc). I undestand why this is not done, because of politics. Some supposedly "good programs" have low brachy volumes and send their residents for like 1-3 month externships to get some GYN, prostate brachy at places like Wash U and others. There are some already very bad no good programs which would not meet enough cases in specialized things like lymphoma. There are places that barely see prostate!

I feel like this seriously needs to be looked at. This will hurt some or many programs. In the grand scheme of things, most of these programs shouldn't exist. There are just so many bad programs out there. Some supposedly "good programs" which are not quite as good as people say. I don't understand why they don't just tighten the requirements and shut them down. They started with good idea of increasing requirements but it eventually got so watered down it did absolutely nothing.

I now believe nothing will change or be done, unless things get so bad that truly "breadlines" happen for our field. Im talking about like a plurality of people without a job like Nuc Med,and "big name" places having their own be unemployed (not enough satellites to place them, not enough secret hand shake to place them),and people having to do multiple useless "fellowships" with Miami Mehta Proton center and ANOVA. Until this happens, nothing is going to change.

I'm not even going to discuss the board issue. Paul Wallner says we must thank him for elevating rad onc. Nothing changing.

So we find ourselves in this unfortunate position with no end in sight and only signs that things are likely to get worst. The match gets worst and worst every year. I review applications being in review committee, and they get worst every year. They may be very good people, the best people, but they are objectively less qualified than years prior.

Speaking broadly, our generation has been now through two terrible financial crisis. We had no capital or liquidity to ride the stock market wave the past 10 years. We have no savings, and a lot of debt, and we are entering a job market with declining prospects with market forces that decrease utilization, decrease need for presence (warm body nearby), decrease fractions in a model where you get paid per fraction, decreased lowered ceiling in terms of pay (rarity of these golden goose jobs that offer 800K+ partnership, etc), and our very own cannot think fast enough for more ways to eliminate our modality etc etc. Anybody going into rad onc now, needs to seriously consider these issues. If you are early in your training, it is not too late to get out. People in my situation are stuck, we are going nowhere, but you still have time!

There is no free lunch in medicine, but some lunches are better than others.

For those looking for a job or looking next year, my advice is to sign the first "good" "decent" contract you get, if you're lucky, and never look back.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Angry
  • Sad
Reactions: 4 users
Regarding case requirements. check out the way urology logs its cases for the ACGME, and the way ACGME sets requirements for uro case logs, and how 1 pgy5 resident from a program matches up. I think other surgical sub fields have similar case logging requirements. General surgery, somewhere published how a significant amount of time is doing scut work, and how residents do not feel as comfortable operating and end up taking fellowships in subspecialties, on top of 5-7 years of gen surg
 

Attachments

  • 2019-Resident-Applicant-Welcome-Presentation-1(1).pdf
    256.1 KB · Views: 50
  • caselog2.pdf
    472.7 KB · Views: 73
Yes, general surgery has similar detailed case minimums in sub-specialties, attached below. I (amongst many) have been saying we should 1) have site specific minimums and 2) greatly increase minimums in things like SRS, SBRT, and brachy (with sub-site requirements) and let the chips fall where they may. Too many programs on the border who have expanded aggressively and would need to contract. Some programs would be shut down as a result of this. Inertia is the primary driver of no changes being made.
 

Attachments

  • DefinedCategoryMinimumNumbersforGeneralSurgeryResidentsandCreditRole.pdf
    130.7 KB · Views: 75
The challenge lies in selecting the specific case minimums and who does it. Someone has to do it. Maybe you disagree it should be more, maybe it should be less, but we need to start somewhere. There are many ways to do it. You can have a more democratic process but with this you risk it getting watered down and politics getting in the way, and in the end nothing is done, so nobody is hurt or nobody gets their toes stepped on. You can also put like 10 people in a room, experts or not with PP and academic backgrounds and they come up with numbers. That's it. No ifs and or buts. If your program doesn't match those numbers you get shut down and residents are moved to a better program. We can't be afraid to address the challenges our field faces. This is about modernizing our requirements to ensure minimal competency in all these things. Our field has changed significantly and it worries me there are people out there being trained without ever having done a T&O or an instertitial GYN case or prostate brachy or with zero to minimal SBRT experience that is broad. This just seems like a total disservice to the idea of residency. Wallner himself admitted that he first became aware about how many bad programs there are out there when he was part of ACGME. Our field knows these realities they just don't do anything about it.
 
Top