I need help making a decision regarding the rest of my application cycle

[TheShaker]

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So, the application cycle is pretty much at a close for me at this point with no more interview invites expected. Here's my situation. I have been waitlisted at one school, waiting for a decision at a school that I love but will likely be waitlisted at (based on their behavior in past years), and I have one last interview coming up in February. Here is the problem, I feel like the school that I'm about to go interview at isn't at all a fit for me and I'm not a fan of its programs or its location. I am thinking of withdrawing my application to all schools except the ones I'm hopeful for and prepare myself to reapply. The relevant information is in my MDApps.

My reasons:

1. I feel like I've learned much more during this cycle and had I known what I know now, I would have had a more successful cycle. I mainly would have written a better personal statement, participated in more experiences, applied more strategically, and most of all, applied earlier. Could this have given me more opportunities at schools that I really want to go to?

2. I have a better sense of what I want now. This cycle has allowed me to really reflect on myself and I can think about my future with more clarity and I can be more decisive in what I want.

3. This is the biggest reason. I've been wanting to take some time off to participate in the 2 year NIH IRTA program to give myself a chance to broaden my research experiences as well as mature a bit. I realize that this will be the last time I can do this and I would rather have this experience before I go to medical school. I not only want the research experience but also the life experience of living in a new place and being on my own without school to interfere with my work. Also, I can learn from the NIH IRTA program because it allows me to do full time research. I mean, I feel like I want a research career now but I might just like research as an EC, a side dish. I might find out that I hate it when I am committed to doing it for 40-60 hours/week. Perhaps my decisions and desires will change at that point. In this situation, I will be taking a year to just perform research and then apply in 2014 while doing research that year too. Then again, I might be forced into a gap year anyway. 😛

4. I really should have applied MD/PhD instead of MD only. I thought the researching MD plan would have been unique and effective but so far, it has proven otherwise, whether it be due to my poor communication skills or some kind of stigma that I am unaware of. I think a year off improving my experiences would make me a viable applicant for MD/PhD even though my numbers can be a bit weaker than the typical MSTP applicant.

As opposed to what I felt at the beginning of the cycle, I don't think reapplication is the end of the world anymore. It's an opportunity to experience new things and at least be wiser in terms of admissions for the next application cycle. Still though, I have never heard of anyone in their right mind willingly withdraw interviews and become a reapplicant by their own choosing.

What do you guys think? I know this is a personal decision but I think that having others chime in with their opinions will help me think through my options as well as bring my attention to matters that I have not yet considered.

On a side note, I understand that this post might be infuriating to certain applicants who do not yet have interviews or are banking on only one interview (I likely know most of you since I spend a lot of time in the Panic Thread). I am very thankful for any opportunities that have been granted to me this cycle and I hope I do not come off as ungrateful. If I could, I would transfer my remaining interview to one of you if I were to withdraw. Sorry if this leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Sorry for the long post. If a TLDR is in order then I will try to find a way to summarize what I just said. Any help will be much appreciated. 🙂

 

[Microglia]

Sorry to hear about your cycle. It's definitely a tough situation.

Personally, I would complete the cycle and attend the last interview, apply for the IRTA, and then if you are accepted to the school you would like, you might be able to apply internally to their MD/PhD, and if you're not, the IRTA is a solid backup plan.

With your stats, I would have thought you would get more interviews, so I would try and see if there was something in your PS, LOR's, EC's, etc that may have been a black spot to adcoms. Best of luck!

Edit: I think the main problem was that your verification was September 8th. Its just a little too late for comfort.

 

[Claudin]

I don't think you should withdraw from any schools. You make no gains from doing so. You already paid the application fees ... might as well wait it out. You can still apply to your desired graduate programs while waiting for those schools' decisions, whether they are acceptance or rejections. If you withdraw now, you might regret it 2 months later

 

[Ichiban88]

Yea you should stay on board. I agree with microglia and claudin with everything they are saying.
I would write a letter of intent to Dartmouth at this stage btw.

 

[TheShaker]

Yea you should stay on board. I agree with microglia and claudin with everything they are saying.
I would write a letter of intent to Dartmouth at this stage btw.

A helpful student from Dartmouth on the school specific thread told us a LOI wouldn't help at this point, but it would help after I have been waitlisted, so I will wait until then. I will definitely send one though, it was one of my top choices coming in. 😍

To the people telling me to stick it through. I'm just worried because if I were to get accepted, then that means the door is closed. I can never do what I want to do with the NIH IRTA and I don't think that school allows internal MD/PhD applications. From what I understand, withdrawing from an acceptance is a huge no-no and will likely cause a huge problem in my future application. Plus, I don't want to waste an interview spot on someone as half hearted as myself.

What do you guys think? This is really helpful, keep it coming. 🙂

 

[MedPR]

Yea you should stay on board. I agree with microglia and claudin with everything they are saying.
I would write a letter of intent to Dartmouth at this stage btw.

Agreed. January is way too early to jump ship. You never know about wait lists, you might just get accepted off one.

 

[ilikevegetables]

Hey Shaker,

It sounds like you've really given this a lot of thought. Basically, given that you've put a lot of work into applying this cycle and still technically have a chance at acceptance at any school you haven't been rejected from, withdrawing seems ill-advised, but there are a couple exceptions. As I see it, withdrawing could be a good idea if a) that you decide you'd rather do the NIH opportunity than go to any particular medical school next year, or b) really want to end the cycle ASAP and figure out what you're doing next year. Both are legit reasons to withdraw. Also, I feel like the NIH program would prepare you pretty awesomely for MD/PhD applications.

As for applying early, it does seem to make a difference and I think it's a fairly easy advantage to give your application. I'm honestly not sure how much personal statement figures in but I do think having some really unique activities could catch an adcom member's eye.

Also, props to you for being able to see the good in this cycle and for being super mature about it. And of course, GOOD LUCK with the rest of the cycle - you've still got a real shot at acceptance!

 

[Ichiban88]

hmm... thats a very thoughtful consideration. Perhaps you should withdraw from New York medical college. If you decide to attend the interview and get in and end up matriculating, you may hate being there for four years and might always look back and regret it. (lots of ands!) If you withdraw now, the possibility/temptation is gone. Yea it may be best to withdraw from New York medical college and sit tight on the other two while applying to NIH IRTA.

 

[ilikevegetables]

A helpful student from Dartmouth on the school specific thread told us a LOI wouldn't help at this point, but it would help after I have been waitlisted, so I will wait until then. I will definitely send one though, it was one of my top choices coming in. 😍

To the people telling me to stick it through. I'm just worried because if I were to get accepted, then that means the door is closed. I can never do what I want to do with the NIH IRTA and I don't think that school allows internal MD/PhD applications. From what I understand, withdrawing from an acceptance is a huge no-no and will likely cause a huge problem in my future application. Plus, I don't want to waste an interview spot on someone as half hearted as myself.

What do you guys think? This is really helpful, keep it coming. 🙂

Just saw the above. So just to clarify, if you withdrew, you'd be withdrawing from *all* schools, or just those you haven't heard anything from yet? I don't know anything about your chances at the NIH IRTA program or about the application process, but if that's really what you'd rather do next year, then why not withdraw from all?

That said, I think that the NIH IRTA program sounds like a good reason for turning down an acceptance if that's what you want to do, especially if you're going to come back and apply MD/PhD. Not an expert though.

 

[Claudin]

Another way of thinking about it is this: If you were accepted at SLU today instead of getting waitlisted, would you still have considered applying for the NIH IRTA program?

 

[j0tt3r]

OP - I think your plan makes sense. I know most people here might not agree with me, but I think it is possible to realize a school is not for you after applying and withdrawing before interviewing there can be the right choice. I would say keep any schools you're more excited about than the NIH opportunity live, withdraw from the others, and take some time to decompress from this cycle. The NIH experience would certainly be a great way to spend a gap year or two before applying again, and can only help you as a re-applicant. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Jas1360]

I think you have four reasons listed why you should do exactly what you are planning on. You don't want to go to a school where you do not feel like a good fit. Hopefully, you will get accepted to one of the schools you like and won't have to reapply. But if you do have to reapply you already know exactly what you will need to do in order to have a better cycle next time.

 

[Lollygag]

OP - I think your plan makes sense. I know most people here might not agree with me, but I think it is possible to realize a school is not for you after applying and withdrawing before interviewing there can be the right choice. I would say keep any schools you're more excited about than the NIH opportunity live, withdraw from the others, and take some time to decompress from this cycle. The NIH experience would certainly be a great way to spend a gap year or two before applying again, and can only help you as a re-applicant. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

+1

It sounds like you are very interested in doing more research and since the errors you made this application cycle are all feasible to correct then I see no reason why you won't get in if you apply again.

Something to consider is that I have heard rumors that schools can see if you were accepted during a cycle but did not attend. This can make you an undesirable applicant if they think you will apply to their school and not attend if accepted. You may want to look into the validity of that because if that is true then that would be the only reason I would recommend withdrawing from all of the schools. Again, not sure how true it in what scenarios it applies.

I just don't think you should attend a medical school you know you wouldn't like when you could attend one you would like, do the research program you have wanted to do and apply the MD/PhD route that you desire as well. It just seems like going to that school will give you regrets later on,

 

[TheShaker]

Just saw the above. So just to clarify, if you withdrew, you'd be withdrawing from *all* schools, or just those you haven't heard anything from yet? I don't know anything about your chances at the NIH IRTA program or about the application process, but if that's really what you'd rather do next year, then why not withdraw from all?

That said, I think that the NIH IRTA program sounds like a good reason for turning down an acceptance if that's what you want to do, especially if you're going to come back and apply MD/PhD. Not an expert though.

I would withdraw from most schools but there are some schools that I really like and I would stay in the game because an acceptance from them would make me much happier than the NIH program. Namely, these schools are Dartmouth, Albert Einstein, and Stanford (lol). These are the only programs I would pick over the NIH IRTA.

Yeah, I am really scared of withdrawing from an acceptance though. To me, it sounds like a good reason to withdraw but, unfortunately, my opinion doesn't matter. I do wonder how adcoms feel about this (LizzyM batsignal?).

Another way of thinking about it is this: If you were accepted at SLU today instead of getting waitlisted, would you still have considered applying for the NIH IRTA program?

This is actually a good angle to think about it. I've thought about it, and I knew my SLU decision would come somewhere around today. I did dread today because I was still on the borderline on medical school and the NIH program. With this waitlist, it at least shuts down one of the options, at least until May. It's a strange feeling to feel crushed and relieved at the same time. If I had been accepted today, I would feel very happy but I would feel a sense of disappointment that I can't go to the NIH.

It's hard though. I am worried about interviewing at NYMC and possibly shutting down my options at the NIH but, at the same time, I might withdraw now and then hate myself for it in March or April when I suddenly want an acceptance. Then again, if I did get accepted to medical school and got into a lab at the NIH, I would be burning bridges early if I withdraw from the NIH program in favor of medical school. I'm worried about burning bridges mainly because I still want an academic career.

 

[ilikevegetables]

I would withdraw from most schools but there are some schools that I really like and I would stay in the game because an acceptance from them would make me much happier than the NIH program. Namely, these schools are Dartmouth, Albert Einstein, and Stanford (lol). These are the only programs I would pick over the NIH IRTA.

Honestly, this sounds like a really good and well-thought-out plan to me. The only risk is not getting any of them, and then perhaps wishing you could un-withdraw. Do you have an idea of what your chances are at NIH?

Also, I don't feel like turning down the NIH program would necessarily burn bridges. Just do it nicely and politely and I think it'd be fine.

 

[goodkarma]

Just my 2 cents...

Have you been accepted to the NIH IRTA program? I don't know much about how competitive it is, but nothing is a sure bet. Do you have a back up plan if you go this route? Is Plan B worth giving up a potential acceptance?

2 years is a lot of time when you consider you have another ~8 of graduate studies to go. Your MDapps says you've done 3 years of research already. Don't you know if research is for you yet? Not trying to be judgemental, just blunt.

Dartmouth and SLU both accept internally (according to this... https://www.aamc.org/students/download/62760/data/faqtable.pdf). I'd personally choose the LOI>internal MD/PhD route.

You seem pretty set on your plan so sorry to play devil's advocate. Best of luck in your choice!

 

[TheShaker]

Honestly, this sounds like a really good and well-thought-out plan to me. The only risk is not getting any of them, and then perhaps wishing you could un-withdraw. Do you have an idea of what your chances are at NIH?

Also, I don't feel like turning down the NIH program would necessarily burn bridges. Just do it nicely and politely and I think it'd be fine.

To be honest, I'm somewhat in the dark about their acceptances chances as well. From what I've heard, it's less of a crapshoot than medical school admissions. As long as you have some research experience and good grades then you can probably find your way into a lab somewhere. It is a fear of mine to not get into anything though, I'm still trying to think up a plan B for that. Honestly, the thought of possibly regretting it in the future is the only thing keeping me from completely withdrawing.

Just my 2 cents...

Have you been accepted to the NIH IRTA program? I don't know much about how competitive it is, but nothing is a sure bet. Do you have a back up plan if you go this route? Is Plan B worth giving up a potential acceptance?

2 years is a lot of time when you consider you have another ~8 of graduate studies to go. Your MDapps says you've done 3 years of research already. Don't you know if research is for you yet? Not trying to be judgemental, just blunt.

Dartmouth and SLU both accept internally (according to this... https://www.aamc.org/students/download/62760/data/faqtable.pdf). I'd personally choose the LOI>internal MD/PhD route.

You seem pretty set on your plan so sorry to play devil's advocate. Best of luck in your choice!

I have not been accepted and that is why I'm worried about withdrawing everything as well. I do have a feeling that research is for me but this is drawn from the experience of one lab, one field, and a part time commitment. I spend about 20 hours/week in the lab and I think it's great but I don't know how it will feel once I enter a new lab and work 40-60 hours a week. Perhaps I just liked my research experience because I liked the PI, the lab members, the field, or the relatively low commitment of a part time EC. I need to know that I truly enjoy research itself before I commit to an MD/PhD.

What worries me about the internal acceptance plan is that I would be banking on a waitlist acceptance, which is somewhat unreliable. Also, internal MD/PhD applications can be difficult and there's only one shot as opposed to the ~20 shots in a conventional application cycle.

And thanks for your input, having a devil's advocate is useful for these decisions. 🙂

 

[TheShaker]

Does anyone else have anymore input? I'm really at a loss. 🙁 I just can't commit to a decision.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

Does anyone else have anymore input? I'm really at a loss. 🙁 I just can't commit to a decision.

Honestly, I haven't read the details other than the OP, but I wouldn't withdraw. Think of all the effort you've put in. On the other hand, you're on a waitlist for a school I applied to, so go ahead. 😀

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

MD/PhD admissions is a lot more of a crapshoot than straight MD and you will likely end up spending even more money if you choose to apply to those programs next year. Worst case scenario is you withdraw this year, apply MD/PhD next year and don't get in anywhere then. Not that I'm saying you aren't a competitive applicant, but you should consider this possibility. What would you do then? I'd say stick with what you've done since it is definitely possible to do research as a straight MD and you've already invested a year and tons of money.

Good luck!

 

[LizzyM]

You are getting good advice. Stay in the race you've started. Apply to the NIH as a back up. Worse case of good news/good news is that you could get both med admission & NIH and ask the med school to defer a yr or 2 while you do the NIH thing. Worst thing then would be that the school would say no and you'd have to choose between NIH and med school.

 

[235009]

let's call it like it is... you think you're too good for NYMC. that's what "i don't think it would be a good fit" really means. it can't be location because Dartmouth is also in the middle of nowhere and I doubt there's anything that ghastly about their curriculum.

i think you have a very obvious choice: go to the NYMC interview, apply to the NIH thing, write Dartmouth a pre-decision LOI, then sit back and wait until the ball is actually in your court and you have a real decision to make. right now you don't actually have any decision to make. for all you know the NIH thing can be very competitive and you might again be over-estimating your chances.

 

[bigbird23]

as someone who is waiting for an nymc II and would go there in a heartbeat if i were accepted, please give up your interview slot to me! im kidding.. but not really..

you dont have to tie yourself for a two year commitment at the NIH. While it does look more "prestigious", if your goal is be become more "mature" as you said and expand your research interests, only to end up applying MD again after two years, its not worth it. You should apply to research jobs instead, that way you can still accomplish your main goals without having to commit for two years. Im assuming you already have a lot of research so use that to get a job if you still want to continue doing research. Your stats are way better than mine (6 LizzyM points difference), you may want to consider rehashing your PS or maybe developing better interview skills? I honestly have no idea why you are at best, only wait-listed at this point.. There has to some reason why those schools have rejected you pre-interview (maybe because you were complete a little later than the most competitive people that apply to those schools?) Look into all these factors before you withdraw nymc (I would not withdraw), but if you do, do it quick so that i can have a marginally higher chance at a II lol. On the bright side, you havent even heard back from many schools, so stick it out!

 

[Frazier]

A simple answer to a simple question should decide your path: Do you want to attend med school this fall and forego the internship, MD/PhD, et al -- or are you the type of person that will always be wondering "what if?"

What if I applied early?
What if I used an appropriate PS?
What if I took some time off?
Could I have ended up at a school that I really want to go to if I did things differently?

It's your life. The time and money you spent up to this point are already sunk. You shouldn't feel pressured in the slightest, one way or another, based on the fact that you already applied in the past...base it on the future -- the time you still have the luxury to spend.

Shortening a 35 year career to 32-33 years, by taking an extra 2 to accomplish something you truly value and give it your "best" shot -- I wouldn't argue with that.

 

[yehhhboiii]

If you're looking for more and better choices, just take a look at your school list. It's nice that you got an interview at Dartmouth but you have a pretty decent mix of schools. If you didn't get that much love this season, what makes you think that you will be more successful as a reapplicant and an MD/PhD applicant? The competition for MD/PhD is much higher so even if you got more relevant research experience, I doubt it would help you greatly. Also, you shouldn't be so quick to judge a school before you've been there. You don't know if NYMC will be a place that you would enjoy studying at and you won't if you never go visit.

 

[TheShaker]

You are getting good advice. Stay in the race you've started. Apply to the NIH as a back up. Worse case of good news/good news is that you could get both med admission & NIH and ask the med school to defer a yr or 2 while you do the NIH thing. Worst thing then would be that the school would say no and you'd have to choose between NIH and med school.

Yeah, I think this is probably the best choice for me. Do you know how often schools grant these deferrals? I always thought they only allow it for really compelling reasons. Also, from what I understand, if I were to get accepted then there would be no choice right? I thought turning down an acceptance is worthy of an applicant being blacklisted.

let's call it like it is... you think you're too good for NYMC. that's what "i don't think it would be a good fit" really means. it can't be location because Dartmouth is also in the middle of nowhere and I doubt there's anything that ghastly about their curriculum.

i think you have a very obvious choice: go to the NYMC interview, apply to the NIH thing, write Dartmouth a pre-decision LOI, then sit back and wait until the ball is actually in your court and you have a real decision to make. right now you don't actually have any decision to make. for all you know the NIH thing can be very competitive and you might again be over-estimating your chances.

I happen to love the forest and small town feel, it was one of the main reasons why I liked it there so much. You're right though, I was being somewhat of a name ***** but I guess I the ranked grading system and living in the dorm made me not like it too much when I found out a while ago but I overblew those negative feelings over time.

I hope I didn't sound presumptuous speaking as though I was sure of an acceptance. I am fully aware of the possibility that I will get rejected from both NYMC and the NIH but it was more relevant to consider acceptances because that is when doors start closing on the opportunities in question. The thought of what to do if I have no prospects for the next year was something that I was going to contemplate in April/May.

as someone who is waiting for an nymc II and would go there in a heartbeat if i were accepted, please give up your interview slot to me! im kidding.. but not really..

you dont have to tie yourself for a two year commitment at the NIH. While it does look more "prestigious", if your goal is be become more "mature" as you said and expand your research interests, only to end up applying MD again after two years, its not worth it. You should apply to research jobs instead, that way you can still accomplish your main goals without having to commit for two years. Im assuming you already have a lot of research so use that to get a job if you still want to continue doing research. Your stats are way better than mine (6 LizzyM points difference), you may want to consider rehashing your PS or maybe developing better interview skills? I honestly have no idea why you are at best, only wait-listed at this point.. There has to some reason why those schools have rejected you pre-interview (maybe because you were complete a little later than the most competitive people that apply to those schools?) Look into all these factors before you withdraw nymc (I would not withdraw), but if you do, do it quick so that i can have a marginally higher chance at a II lol. On the bright side, you havent even heard back from many schools, so stick it out!

I think that the weakness of my application came from the fact that I rushed it even when SDN warned to line up all of my ducks before I fire. I wrote a half-hearted PS, didn't really do enough to accumulate the EC's and clinical experiences outside of research, and applied late. I only have myself to blame but I feel like if I just had a year off to work on my EC's, get more experience, and do things right then I could have found myself with more options during the application cycle. Then again, it's just like Blais said, I am kind of the "what if" type of person and I don't think that will ever change. Any decision I make will result in "what if" in one way or another.

Still, thanks to everyone who replied. I decided to go to the NYMC interview (about to book my flight) and I'm gonna be damn happy about it. On the side, I'll be applying to the NIH. I guess I needed multiple people telling me to stick with it to realize how ridiculous I was being about dropping a school just because it isn't my dream school. I don't know what changed with me this cycle but I used to be humble and I never wanted to be an entitled name ***** so I won't be. In the end, it's a medical school and that's all I really want. If I ever feel the need for anything more then I can find a way to make it happen.

 

[LizzyM]

If a school is looking at a "too good year" where too many of its offers are being accepted and they are at risk of "overenrollment" they will be THRILLED to grant you a deferral so that you can do your NIH thing and matriculate that much stronger.

If it is one week before school starts and the class has not yet filled, and you are being offered a slot from the waitlist, it is less likely that you'd be granted a deferral. In that case, they need you there stat and not 2 yrs from now.