I/O Psy D Programs?

[VeryHopeful2010]

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I was searching for adjunct positions and came across this new Touro PsyD program - in Human and Organizational Psych. Are there typically PsyD programs in specialties other than clinical?

http://www.tuw.edu/school-news/new-doctor-of-psychology-in-human-and-organizational-psychology/

 

[KW58D]

I know the Chicago School of Professional Psychology also has a business Psy.D. that is I/O track. Not sure of the outcomes data though or the benefit of a Psy.D. over a Masters program since the Ph.D. brings the research component and internship opportunities.

 

[paramour]

There's a gal here who is pursuing her PsyD in MFT at one of the prof schools in the area. Drives me nuts when she starts complaining about her dissertation that's going to take "a few months" to complete from initial conceptualization to final draft and defense.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yeah, all the doctoral-level I/O folks I've seen have been REALLY heavily into research and advanced stats, which makes sense given much of the work that they seem to do. I could be wrong, but I'm having trouble seeing how a Psy.D. for I/O would be anything more than a glorified master's degree with a higher price tag.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah, all the doctoral-level I/O folks I've seen have been REALLY heavily into research and advanced stats...

That's what I've seen too. My friend took 5-6 stats courses (the last 3-4 outside of psych) bc "real" I/O is pretty diff than what a lot of the newer programs are peddling.

I was forced to learn some of that stuff in my prior career...the "idea" part is fun to flush out, but knowing enough to make sure you are measuring what you want to measure sometimes made my head hurt. It also takes waaaay more time to do right if you aren't just pushing pre-developed tools/packages.

 

[WisNeuro]

I imagine a PsyD in IO is even more worthless than a clinical PsyD. IO people need to have a very good stats background.

 

[deleted343839]

I spoke with the University a few weeks ago and it seems like a solid program. My only concern is that it is not APA accredited.

Don't waste your time on this program. If you're serious about a career in I/O psychology, join SIOP (http://www.siop.org), get to know the field, and let experienced professionals help you understand what kind of training you need to be successful.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

I imagine a PsyD in IO is even more worthless than a clinical PsyD. IO people need to have a very good stats background.

So you're calling clinical psyds worthless?

 

[WisNeuro]

Just 90% of them. And, if we're going to go and dissect all of my posts from 1+year ago, may want to just make another thread, there are a lot of them.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So you're calling clinical psyds worthless?

I think what WisNeuro is alluding to is the preponderance of sub-par training programs that also happen to be Psy.D. programs that also happen to be at poor reputation and sometimes predatory programs. The study and application of I/O Psychology requires a strong basis in statistics, research methods, and similar skillsets, though most/all of those same programs de-emphasize these areas as to not scare away the "statistics are icky" applicants. It doesn't make sense to offer a more "clinically focused" degree in I/O because of the nature of the work. It's just more marketing.

In contrast, HERE is a publication by well-respected experts in I/O that looks at rankings of programs (NOT using the US News & World Report approach). The publication is from the early 2000s, but most/all of those programs are still very well respected and where the vast majority of the private sector go to recruit top talent. I'm familiar with UMich, Mich State, and UMD…and this is how they do it.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Just 90% of them. And, if we're going to go and dissect all of my posts from 1+year ago, may want to just make another thread, there are a lot of them.

Just noticing that some of your statements are more judgmental and less thoughtful than others. Perhaps you meant for profit instead of psyd since for profits also turn out useless phds too. I expect more precision from you.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

I think what WisNeuro is alluding to is the preponderance of sub-par training programs that also happen to be Psy.D. programs that also happen to be at poor reputation and sometimes predatory programs. The study and application of I/O Psychology requires a strong basis in statistics, research methods, and similar skillsets, though most/all of those same programs de-emphasize these areas as to not scare away the "statistics are icky" applicants. It doesn't make sense to offer a more "clinically focused" degree in I/O because of the nature of the work. It's just more marketing.

In contrast, HERE is a publication by well-respected experts in I/O that looks at rankings of programs (NOT using the US News & World Report approach). The publication is from the early 2000s, but most/all of those programs are still very well respected and where the vast majority of the private sector go to recruit top talent. I'm familiar with UMich, Mich State, and UMD…and this is how they do it.

I think I understood, he was just being imprecise and a little awful.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just noticing that some of your statements are more judgmental and less thoughtful than others. Perhaps you meant for profit instead of psyd since for profits also turn out useless phds too. I expect more precision from you.

I meant it in general. Maybe a handful of good programs there. It's a model of training that makes no sense anymore given the balanced training model at most places. No need for more precision here, I've been pretty clear and consistent in my past postings.

 

[erg923]

I think an MBA with focus on org development would be more worthwhile for this sort of thing than a PsyD from some no name university.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think an MBA with focus on org development would be worthwhile for this sort of thing than a PsyD from some no name university.

I'm far from an I/O expert, but based on what I've heard, I would agree (particularly if coupled with a masters in I/O from a more traditional program).

 

[LAPsyGuy]

I meant it in general. Maybe a handful of good programs there. It's a model of training that makes no sense anymore given the balanced training model at most places. No need for more precision here, I've been pretty clear and consistent in my past postings.

I think there's always need for precision. Others may not have read your anthology.

 

[WisNeuro]

Feel free to compile it if you wish. Plenty of other posts celebrating their 1+ year anniversaries out there to resurrect.

 

[LAPsyGuy]

Feel free to compile it if you wish. Plenty of other posts celebrating their 1+ year anniversaries out there to resurrect.

Not my point. I love it when you play coy.

 

[WisNeuro]

One of my best qualities.

 

[erg923]

I'm usually the one hurting LaPsyGuy's feelings. Are we in the twilight zone on SDN today? 🙂

 

[WisNeuro]

Nah, it's TBM (Throwback Monday), SDN style.

 

[randomguy87]

... if oneneurodoctor had a girlfriend hired by touro

 

[erg923]

Actually, I did a little digging and Touro has a rich history and is VERY reputable.

Yes, of course! Which explains why nobody here has ever heard of the place, right?

 

[randomguy87]

Yes, of course! Which explains why nobody here has ever heard of the place, right?

After extensive digging, I found that touro had an excellent and well known reputation. Hmm

 

[WisNeuro]

I have a couple good friends from when I was in the Michigan State grad program (they are I/O people from MSU), I was curious so I asked them about it, and they have never heard of this place either.

 

[WisNeuro]

One is a professor in a business school, another does private consultant work. How can the program have both a very rich history and be very new?

 

[randomguy87]

One is a professor in a business school, another does private consultant work. How can the program have both a very rich history and be very new?

Do you guys deliberately feed and encourage the trolls? They aren't pets. Maybe if you would stop supplying them they would go away

 

[WisNeuro]

Yes, we do. We get bored in between patients some days. Need something to pass the time.

 

[randomguy87]

Anecdotes are not facts.

Of course they can be facts. What do you think a fact is, "psychscientist"? They are not necessarily generalizable trends

 

[BuckeyeLove]

There are many psychologist in central ohio who are working and doing well with a degree from an online or distance learning program.

I guess I'm giving up some anonymity here [well, let's be real, probably not, look at my name], but as someone who has trained in that area/region and is moving back to practice, this is simply not a valid statement.

 

[cara susanna]

Even though the university itself may be well-known, that doesn't mean that it's well-known in the field of I/O Psych.

 

[smalltownpsych]

The two states that I have been licensed in will not license someone who has an online degree.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I guess I'm giving up some anonymity here [well, let's be real, probably not, look at my name], but as someone who has trained in that area/region and is moving back to practice, this is simply not a valid statement.

+1

 

[AcronymAllergy]

My only real concern now is that I will not be able to find a internship and I believe I need 3600 hours during/or after the program.

For...licensure as a psychologist? If that's the goal, this program isn't likely to get you there. It's in I/O (which generally isn't license-eligible to begin with) and is online, and doesn't seem to include provision of supervised clinical activity. All of these things would mean that not only would the degree not make you eligible or prepare you for a clinical internship, but that it's just not a licensable degree at all.

The press release itself from the original post describes the program as dealing with I/O-oriented research and theory; no mention of clinical contact.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I only know Touro from their med school....and it is the opposite of excellent. Their rich history goes all the way back to the olden times of 2007.

Their GSP (graduate school of psychology), which houses their I/O program began in 2008. Again, a very rich history and tradition.

I too am in the Midwest, and an online degree is viewed as completely inadequate. This is merely my opinion, so YMMV...but I doubt it will vary much unless you ONLY ask ppl who pursued online degrees and ignore everyone else.

ps. Licensure in I/O...? That normally isn't a thing.

 

[WisNeuro]

"Candidates applying under the new law shall have: 1) an earned doctoral degree in psychology or school psychology from a program that holds accreditation, designation, or approval by the APA Commission on Accreditation,the CPA Accreditation Office, Designation by the ASPPB/NR, or approval by NASP (for school psychology doctoral degrees only)"

 

[psych844]

Nobody will take you seriously with an online degree. Online education is the future, (and much of undergrad education could probably be done successfully in that fashion) but it is not at all legitimate for Graduate work in Psychology.

Once again it was confirmed by the ohio state board that it does qualify IF you are able to obtain 3600 clinical hours as well.

 

[WisNeuro]

I remain skeptical. Additionally, you will not qualify for licensure in most other states, even if you somehow get licensure in Ohio.

 

[WisNeuro]

If they have reciprocity, maybe. Many still require certain training standards met. Ohio also does not require postdoc hours, another thing that will limit license mobility.

 

[psych844]

That's a matter of opinion. ..

It is not a matter of opinion, i'd wager 99% of people who went to proper programs look down on people who did their degree online.

But really it only matters WHAT YOU THINK, and i know personally that i wouldn't feel proud of finishing a degree online..if it makes you feel great, accomplished..great. Some people dream about studying at Harvard, MIT, etc..if your dream is to do online grad work in psychology, and you feel great about that..great for you.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Once you've been practicing for 2-5 years you can transfer to most states....

Not true.

You are still required to meet all of that new state's requirements. The fact you were licensed elsewhere means nothing to another state unless they have reciprocity set up (unlikely).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

And besides no matter what I can always get licensed in CA lol

Good luck passing their state exam, as it is frequently complained about on here.

Also, I'm not sure listing yourself as "MD/Ph.D. Student" is an accurate description, as that means the person is enrolled in two programs working towards being a physician scientist.

 

[mc625510]

There are I/O programs in Ohio that are reputable. I just graduated from Ohio U and there are a couple of good I/O faculty there. Since you seem set on Ohio why not look into these? Touro seems like a mix of University of Phoenix and Argosy that decided to spread their great education model to multiple countries... This will certainly give me nightmares. However, it seems like you're set on Touro..or you're employed by them. Either way, best of luck

 

[erg923]

"Proper programs"? Lol....so I'm curious...What do you think of a place like Fielding University?

Their outcome data looks pretty bad. What do you make of it?

A more subjective assessment based on talks with collegues and list serve discussions also does not bode well for them.

What is criteria are you suing to assess program quality?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Being a full-time working adult and wanting to pursue doctoral training (whether it be psychology, medicine, a basic science, etc)…is not a realistic option. The amount of time/effort/etc. it takes to complete doctoral training is akin to a full-time job + a bunch of extra time. Maybe at the end of training there is time to work a bit more, but it isn't something that is possible during the vast majority of training.

 

[psych844]

So you would agree that APA accreditedation does not guarantee the individual a quality education?
I'm looking for a program that is conducive to a full time working adult, primarily writing based, regionally accreditated, non profit, and there are a number of other factors....

...I am at work but I can type out a more detailed response later on...In the meantime my responses will be rather short and sporadic.

I'm not sure what your situation is, but if you got into a funded program, quite a few programs offer tuition remission (no tuition) and a stipend (between 15-25k/year), plus on top you can apply for other funding (internal/external).

 

[erg923]

A phd program a is full time endeavor. If it's not, then there is something missing.

 

[cara susanna]

Wait, is this a clinical degree or an I/O degree?

 

[randomguy87]

A phd program a is full time endeavor. If it's not, then there is something missing.

It is a PsyD. You can tell, because it's in the title to remind you

 

[deleted343839]

ps. Licensure in I/O...? That normally isn't a thing.

It is where I live, but none of the I/O psychologists I know went through the licensure process because it's not necessary (and probably not relevant) for the work they do.