I remember now that I hate ERAS....

[SLUser11]

I'm having to go through the ERAS/NRMP process for the first time in five years. It seems to be going less smooth, and I wonder if I've become computer-illiterate during my time as a resident.

The instructions are confusing, the deadlines unclear, the requests frustrating, etc etc etc.

I called the EDFO (not that you'd know what that is, since I don't really either), and asked why my ABSITE scores weren't uploaded. Apparently, I need to upload them, which I didn't know despite reading the manual diligently. Now, they won't be ready for another week.....

Also, I realized today that July 28th is the NRMP deadline, not the ERAS deadline, so my application is actually behind, and PDs have been able to download my info since the 15th. Some of my LORs are missing, my ABSITE scores are a week away from availability, and I just submitted my app yesterday. Also, the interviews start in a month, so there's not much room for error (like the med school match where there's several months of buffer).


I guess the most frustrating thing about the process is feeling (and sounding) like an over-stressed, over-reacting med student, caught up in the minutia of my application like it's life and death. I want to tell myself that I'm being silly, but it's difficult.....

I think if there was a colorectal forum on here, I'd be posting a "what are my chances" thread next......😳

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[Ronin2258]

To be frank, I would rather have my teeth taken out through my ears with a rusty spoon than go through ERAS/NRMP again, so I definitely feel you on this one. >.<

 

[45408]

As much as AMCAS and ERAS were a pain in the ass, it sure seems like a much better system than having to mail all of your records/applications out to each place.

 

[glade]

I think if there was a colorectal forum on here, I'd be posting a "what are my chances" thread next......😳

Probably pretty good. I used to hang around a bunch of people who were interested in CRS and they made it seem like it was ultra-competitive. Turns out it's not, I mean, unless you're going for the Mayo Clinic or something.

 

[SLUser11]

Probably pretty good. I used to hang around a bunch of people who were interested in CRS and they made it seem like it was ultra-competitive. Turns out it's not, I mean, unless you're going for the Mayo Clinic or something.

It depends how you think about it. Based on the numbers, it's more competitive than most fellowships, such as Vascular/Trauma/Transplant/CV/MIS, etc. But, it's still nowhere near as competitive as plastics, and is below Peds and Surg Onc for sure.

Of course, my point is that even if I was god's gift to general surgery, I'd still be sweating bullets right now, because all reason has gone out the window and I'm transforming into a WAMC geek.

 

[glade]

Right, but the point is all of those specialties you cited are ones that people actively avoid unless they are one of those university-trained residents who are "expected" to go fellowship and they're like "oh, well, I guess I'll go into this so I can say I'm fellowship trained." So, sure, CRS is more competitive than Trauma because most people attempt to not ever have to see a trauma patient ever again after residency, for example. You'll be fine, I'm quite sure.

 

[JayDoc06]

Just found out that each letter of rec needs TWO cover letters, the actual cover letter like for residency applications but also the EDFO one. Crappy part is that some of my faculty had already sent their letters without the EDFO thing. Screw this...

 

[SLUser11]

Update: Going on my first interview this weekend in Seattle. I re-read "Iserson's getting into a residency" but didn't find it too helpful. At this point, I hopefully don't have to read a handbook to act professionally and be well-spoken about my career goals.

Once the process is over, I can give details to hopefully make things easier for any future CRS applicants. What I can say so far is that the time frame is very short: interviews September and October, match November. Some programs are just now downloading applications and reviewing them, while others were offering interviews a month ago.....I have 12 invites and no rejections so far, but I haven't heard from a few of the main ones yet.

I'm not sure what to do with my few hours of free time tomorrow afternoon....I'll walk the waterfront, maybe go to the Space Needle...it was cool last time I was there 16 years ago.

 

[Rabbit Hole]

Good luck on your interview I'm sure you will kick ass! Does the fellowship match work like residency match - as in you rank the programs and they rank you? Just curious.

I've never been to Seattle but a friend of mine told me something about a wall of gum in a market place that might be worth checking out (if you're into that sort of thing).

 

[SLUser11]

Seattle was fun, and it seemed like a very good program.

I just got my second wave of interview invites (6 in 2 days) SocialistMD I'll be visiting you in late October. I'm still waiting to hear from 3-4 places, and my optimism will remain strong until the middle of next week, when I'll concede that some places just don't want me.

Overall, interviewing is like riding a bike. As long as you know who you are and what you want...and you're not a [email protected]'re not so bad....they definitely don't seem as intimidating as they did 5 years ago.

 

[45408]

How are you getting time for all of these interviews? Is fellowship interviewing like residency interviewing in terms of scheduling it, pre-interview dinner with residents/fellows, morning interview and tour?

 

[SLUser11]

How are you getting time for all of these interviews? Is fellowship interviewing like residency interviewing in terms of scheduling it, pre-interview dinner with residents/fellows, morning interview and tour?

The process is very similar to the residency interviews. Most places have an evening-before dinner with the attendings and current fellows, and then formal interviews the following morning. A handful of places have a 2-day interview process.

How am I getting time? I'm cashing in on a lot of favors. I also have very strong junior residents, and they are picking up the slack relatively well. Most residency programs will be accommodating for your interviews to some degree....if not, then you're probably in the wrong place. Of course, everyone I talked to in Seattle (my first interview) were rushing home to do a shift, some without sleep. I got in at 1am and was at work at 6am.

 

[Guile]

The process is very similar to the residency interviews. Most places have an evening-before dinner with the attendings and current fellows, and then formal interviews the following morning. A handful of places have a 2-day interview process.

How am I getting time? I'm cashing in on a lot of favors. I also have very strong junior residents, and they are picking up the slack relatively well. Most residency programs will be accommodating for your interviews to some degree....if not, then you're probably in the wrong place. Of course, everyone I talked to in Seattle (my first interview) were rushing home to do a shift, some without sleep. I got in at 1am and was at work at 6am.

Your juniors are probably loving it. They get all the cases when you're gone. I know mine sure did on the rotations where the upper level was gone for interviews/vacations.

 

[hemorrhoid]

anyone heard from Oschner or Baylor for colorectal yet?!?!?

 

[SLUser11]

anyone heard from Oschner or Baylor for colorectal yet?!?!?

Ochsner sent out invites at the end of last week (only 1 spot available this year). I have not heard from Baylor yet, but they just downloaded my application a week ago, so I will remain optimistic a little bit longer.

 

[hemorrhoid]

Actually got an interview from Mayo and two others today. Anyone heard from Baylor? Just out of curiosity how many of you did a year or two of research?

 

[SLUser11]

Actually got an interview from Mayo and two others today. Anyone heard from Baylor? Just out of curiosity how many of you did a year or two of research?

I didn't do any dedicated research years, but several of the guys I met at the UIC interview did, and it was dedicated colorectal research.

I finally heard from Baylor today, so my plate is is officially full. Overall, I ended up getting 20 interviews, 2 rejections, and 2 no-responses (basically rejections)...24 places applied to overall. Far from perfect, but not bad for a simple Nebraska boy. I'm planning on doing 12-13 interviews.

It's too early to reflect on the process, but it I definitely felt like a stressed-out med student checking my email 3-4 times a day for possible invites. At least now I can concentrate on my interviews, and then only have the one more day to stress out about on November 17th.

 

[45408]

It's too early to reflect on the process, but it I definitely felt like a stressed-out med student checking my email 3-4 times a day for possible invites. At least now I can concentrate on my interviews, and then only have the one more day to stress out about on November 17th.

I set up my e-mail to forward anything from ERAS to my cell phone and pager, so if I got a text message or a page, then I knew to check for an invite. It worked great.

 

[hemorrhoid]

Aprreciate the responses. I've got 11 scheduled which is about all I can see myself being allowed to do, not to mention pay for it. Just started a little bit of stressing so we will see how it goes. I know the match rate is about 80%, which means 1/5 don't match. I used to think I was competitive but stress has destroyed all logic/reasoning. I'd like to think that anyone that gets 12-15 interviews should have a good shot at matching.

 

[SLUser11]

Aprreciate the responses. I've got 11 scheduled which is about all I can see myself being allowed to do, not to mention pay for it. Just started a little bit of stressing so we will see how it goes. I know the match rate is about 80%, which means 1/5 don't match. I used to think I was competitive but stress has destroyed all logic/reasoning. I'd like to think that anyone that gets 12-15 interviews should have a good shot at matching.

11 sounds like a good number. I'm sure I'll see you on the trail. I will approach people individually with the innocent question, "are you hemorrhoid? I'm SLUser." We'll see how they respond.

 

[Guile]

I used to think I was competitive but stress has destroyed all logic/reasoning. I'd like to think that anyone that gets 12-15 interviews should have a good shot at matching.

By the numbers it should seem you have a good shot at matching.

How exactly is "competitiveness" for something like colorectal measured? Med school was pretty much MCAT + GPA + extracurriculars +/- something unique about you. Residency pretty much is (more or less) Step 1 + 3rd year grades + LORs +/- research +/- school prestige. What's the formula for fellowship? More of the same? I imagine ABSITE plays a role and I know that LORs (preferably from someone the PD knows) are very important, but take SLUser here. Maybe UKansas-Witchita is a CRS powerhouse but let's assume it's not. Let's assume no one (or few people do) knows his LOR writers. No dedicated research time. He still gets interviews at 20/24 places applied, something very impressive. I imagine almost all applicants have good LORs. ABSITE scores probably only weed out a few overly ambitious applicants. Two years in a CRS lab probably makes a big difference but it clearly doesn't seem to impact interview offers. Does nearly everyone interview about everywhere? My point is that it probably is difficult to differentiate a lot of the applicants. All have pretty good ABSITEs, good LORs, some form of research, so what's it come down to for those that don't have a CRS textbook writer to call the applicant's #1 choice and tell his good friend to take the guy? The interview?

 

[SLUser11]

What's the formula for fellowship? More of the same? I imagine ABSITE plays a role and I know that LORs (preferably from someone the PD knows) are very important, but take SLUser here. Maybe UKansas-Witchita is a CRS powerhouse but let's assume it's not. Let's assume no one (or few people do) knows his LOR writers. No dedicated research time. He still gets interviews at 20/24 places applied, something very impressive. I imagine almost all applicants have good LORs. ABSITE scores probably only weed out a few overly ambitious applicants. Two years in a CRS lab probably makes a big difference but it clearly doesn't seem to impact interview offers. Does nearly everyone interview about everywhere? My point is that it probably is difficult to differentiate a lot of the applicants. All have pretty good ABSITEs, good LORs, some form of research, so what's it come down to for those that don't have a CRS textbook writer to call the applicant's #1 choice and tell his good friend to take the guy? The interview?

I think you're having a hard time thinking that colorectal surgery can be considered competitive while simultaneously seeing that I'm doing well for myself in the application process. That mistake comes from the assumption that quality applicants, both on the student and chief resident level, would never choose to train in Wichita, Kansas.

Whether or not it's intentional, you then insinuate that wherever I was offered an interview, obviously everyone else was as well.

Wichita is not a CRS powerhouse, and my LORs are not from famous people, but I absolutely would never apologize for my surgical education. I don't have to quote my numbers here, but it's safe to say that I've received an above-average experience, and I've never second-guessed my choice (#1 btw) to come to podunk Kansas.

As far as your question goes, there's actually an article in the JSE (Journal of Surgical Education) that addresses the weight that PDs put on the ABSITE, and I think it's worth a look for most of us SDNers.

I can keep going here, but it's a biased topic for me. I know that your question is innocent and straight-forward, but it's still kind of insulting. Whatever love I'm getting in the interview process is due to my hard work and tendency to over-achieve, and not due to colorectal surgery being falsely dressed as a competitive specialty.

 

[Guile]

I think you're having a hard time thinking that colorectal surgery can be considered competitive while simultaneously seeing that I'm doing well for myself in the application process. That mistake comes from the assumption that quality applicants, both on the student and chief resident level, would never choose to train in Wichita, Kansas.

Okay you're completely misunderstanding me here. I know that CRS is among the more competitive fellowships and I have no trouble seeing you as a competitive applicant. I'm not insinuating that your training was below-average or what have you in Kansas (you address this a lot so maybe you have a hair trigger to bring it up). I don't know why you assumed that. I was just trying to say that it would seem that most if not all people applying are going to have good numbers, good letters, and are hard-workers who have done well for themselves, wherever they trained. I'll put it this way: let's say you are the #1 applicant in the country for CRS. How would that come through in your application? How would it look different than the others' applications? 99th percentile ABSITEs? You can be a crappy surgeon with those scores. Good letters? Everyone has them. That's my point. I was just using you as an example of an applicant who is NOT from a CRS powerhouse (the vast majority of applicants BTW which is why you worked well for the example) and because you've been so open about the whole process and many other things about surgery residency (which I really appreciate BTW) I figured you would respond with something insightful. As far as everyone getting an interview, I've heard (and read here too) that for peds for example (possibly the most competitive) everyone who applies gets interviews at almost all places and then just prays to match somewhere in their top 10. It wasn't a comment on you coming from "podunk" as you put it Witchita. I'm sorry I asked in a way that offended you. That wasn't my intention at all.

 

[SLUser11]

Okay you're completely misunderstanding me here. I know that CRS is among the more competitive fellowships and I have no trouble seeing you as a competitive applicant. I'm not insinuating that your training was below-average or what have you in Kansas (you address this a lot so maybe you have a hair trigger to bring it up). I don't know why you assumed that. I was just trying to say that it would seem that most if not all people applying are going to have good numbers, good letters, and are hard-workers who have done well for themselves, wherever they trained. I'll put it this way: let's say you are the #1 applicant in the country for CRS. How would that come through in your application? How would it look different than the others' applications? 99th percentile ABSITEs? You can be a crappy surgeon with those scores. Good letters? Everyone has them. That's my point. I was just using you as an example of an applicant who is NOT from a CRS powerhouse (the vast majority of applicants BTW which is why you worked well for the example) and because you've been so open about the whole process and many other things about surgery residency (which I really appreciate BTW) I figured you would respond with something insightful. As far as everyone getting an interview, I've heard (and read here too) that for peds for example (possibly the most competitive) everyone who applies gets interviews at almost all places and then just prays to match somewhere in their top 10. It wasn't a comment on you coming from "podunk" as you put it Witchita. I'm sorry I asked in a way that offended you. That wasn't my intention at all.

I'm not offended, but it did strike me in a negative way. Maybe it was because I was already in a bad mood, hanging around the hospital at midnight on a Friday waiting to do a case.

Like I said in my post, I realize you didn't have ill intentions. As far as a "hair trigger" to bring up my program, the only times I mention it in a glowing light is when I'm directly attacked, e.g. someone saying "Wichita is less than ideal" etc. I misinterpreted your post obviously.

I think that it's harder than you think to get 99th percentile every year on the ABSITE.....you are, after all, given a percentile based purely on other surgery residents. ABSITE scores vary greatly among applicants, and most applicants (even for plastics/peds/surg onc) will not have straight 99s.

As for LORs, these vary greatly as well, as some may sound lukewarm. We wish it were the case, but I doubt that PDs and chairmen make every LOR look like the applicant was the best resident ever....after all, to be considered the "top of your class," you actually have to be at the top of your class. So LOR quality varies greatly among applicants as well.

Now, I've only been on 2 interviews, but the people I interacted with seemed very sharp, and were likely well-accomplished, however their interview invitations/rejections varied, and I think 20/24 is atypical. I was very surprised myself, and I was probably bragging a little bit by bringing it up, which is tacky and I sort of regret it. I definitely wouldn't talk about that in a real-life situation where I'm not semi-anonymous.

I hope that's a little more insightful than my previous post.

 

[glade]

That bit about Peds is inaccurate, BTW, Guile. The thing is that Peds is very self-selective and the interview process merely reinforces that. In other words, everyone at all the interviews are the same people. They may as well tie ropes to their belts and go to each interview in the same car. Now, not all of them will make it, but it's not like one random "other guy" will get an interview at a program with them. They all applied to every program and they all have the letters they need and they all did the mandatory voluntary research years.

For a lot of other things, it's more dependent on where you apply. There are lots of CRS programs, some are very prestigious, others are very average. You could conceivably get as many interviews as you wanted, so long as you shot low enough. (This doesn't have anything to do with SLUser, it's a generic comment.) Or, if you were unrealistic and only applied to the top programs you may get zero. Point is, if you go about it intelligently and realistically, you're practically guaranteed to go somewhere even if you're a relatively average candidate. That's what makes CRS a "non-competitive" sub-specialty. That doesn't mean that the top programs are "non-competitive." In contrast, you could try applying to the "worst" Peds program in the nation and still not even get an interview. That's what makes it competitive. In contrast again, you could most likely randomly select the top CTS program in the nation and get in just by showing up at the interview. That's what makes CTS completely uncompetitive. Hopefully that cleared things up for you.

 

[glade]

Oh, by the way, just so people know, there's nothing inherently "smart" about Peds. The competitiveness isn't because it takes some special awesome person to operate on a kid. The reason it's competitive is because there are so few positions, which is because so few kids (relatively) need operations.

 

[hemorrhoid]

I'm in the same boat as sluser. I do not come from a powerhouse, but I did come from a good program. I got two rejections and some interviews at presitigious places (mayo, wash u, etc.), so I feel somewhat confident that I'm acceptable to most places otherwise they wouldn't give me an interview, but you don't go through this to get interviews. I agree with the above posts that it would be pretty hard to distinguish all th applicants from each other.

 

[glade]

To answer Guile's question of what the most stellar candidate would look like, by the way, it would be the following:

Resident at a prestigious academic institution, most likely Ivy League;
Time off for research with multiple papers that have been published in GOOD journals and presented at national meetings;
Have worked with people well-known in the field and have letters from them;
And then way down, have good ABSITE scores.

The ABSITE scores are just there to be there. Nobody in fellowships really gives a crap about them unless they're insanely low, if you have the rest.

Now, does being at Penn mean you're inherently better than someone from a community program? No. But it's the same thing you've dealt with forever since college: name trumps. In actuality, more than a few residents at Ivy League programs are rather sucky surgeons because they don't get to do anything (since their fellows do it all). This isn't sour grapes from me. I freely admit I would have zero chance (or, actually, negative 10) of getting into an Ivy League program. It's just the way things are.

 

[SLUser11]

The ABSITE scores are just there to be there. Nobody in fellowships really gives a crap about them unless they're insanely low, if you have the rest.

I agree to some extent. I think good scores are a good thing, but won't open a bunch of doors for you. Poor scores could definitely hurt you, though, and have been shown time and time again to be indicative of a high risk for board failure.

Here is the article from the JSE that I mentioned earlier. ABSITE scores seem sort of important...colorectal seems to put more weight in them than most, and transplant doesn't care at all...of course I bet the average ABSITE score for transplant is sort of low...

Journal of Surgical Education. Volume 67, Issue 3, Pages 149-151 (May 2010)


How Important Are American Board of Surgery In-Training Examination Scores When Applying for Fellowships?

Aaron T. Miller, MD, Gary William Swain, MD, Maria Widmar, BA, Celia M. Divino, MD

published online 22 April 2010.

Background
The American Board of Surgery In-Training examination (ABSITE) first was administered in 1975 to evaluate a resident's general knowledge as well as the deficiencies within the resident and surgical program. The added importance of this examination in recent years stems from a correlation between ABSITE performance and performance on the American Board of Surgery qualifying examination. However, data are lacking in regard to how fellowship programs view ABSITE scores when considering applicants. Thus, this study was initiated to determine the importance of the ABSITE for surgical residents applying to fellowships.

Study Design
Program coordinators and directors of various surgical fellowships were sent a short survey in regard to the ABSITE. The data then were analyzed.

Results
One hundred forty-eight surveys were completed, with 74.8% of the programs ranking the importance of ABSITE scores as 3 or 4 (on a scale of 1 through 5). Most programs (78.9%) reported no minimum percentile requirement. Those that did required a mean percentile of 54.4. Of the programs, 57.8% placed a greater emphasis on the senior examination versus the junior examination (p = 0.06). When compared with other application factors, the ABSITE score ranked 3rd behind letters of recommendation and a candidate's residency program. Colon and rectal surgery placed the highest importance on ABSITE scores, whereas transplant surgery placed the lowest importance.

Conclusion
The ABSITE score is an important factor for residents applying to surgical fellowship; however, more weight is given to candidates' letters of recommendation and his or her residency program. Applicants should aim to score above the 50th percentile to be competitive for most fellowship programs.

 

[glade]

Why anyone felt the need to study that is beyond me.

 

[Guile]

I think that it's harder than you think to get 99th percentile every year on the ABSITE.....you are, after all, given a percentile based purely on other surgery residents. ABSITE scores vary greatly among applicants, and most applicants (even for plastics/peds/surg onc) will not have straight 99s.

I'm not sure where you got the impression I didn't think it was tough to get 99th percentile on the ABSITE, but regardless, I think it's damn hard to get 99th percentile in anything from high school up. 99th percentile on the SAT is a feat, and it just gets more impressive from there.

 

[Guile]

That bit about Peds is inaccurate, BTW, Guile. The thing is that Peds is very self-selective and the interview process merely reinforces that. In other words, everyone at all the interviews are the same people. They may as well tie ropes to their belts and go to each interview in the same car. Now, not all of them will make it, but it's not like one random "other guy" will get an interview at a program with them. They all applied to every program and they all have the letters they need and they all did the mandatory voluntary research years.

What I was referring to was what you mentioned about everyone at the interviews being the same people. There's a self-selecting group that applies in peds surgery and the group is small enough that most programs are able to interview a good portion of that group (minus the few that shouldn't be applying anyway).

 

[Guile]

To answer Guile's question of what the most stellar candidate would look like, by the way, it would be the following:

Resident at a prestigious academic institution, most likely Ivy League;
Time off for research with multiple papers that have been published in GOOD journals and presented at national meetings;
Have worked with people well-known in the field and have letters from them;
And then way down, have good ABSITE scores.

Yeah I understand that. Of course those people are competitive. My question is about the majority of the applicants who come from schools that aren't powerhouses and who end up at great places. There are a lot of attendings in my program who did residency somewhere not considered top tier and went to a top fellowship. Since many of them don't have the things listed above, I'm asking what makes them stand out because something must. I'm sounding like a broken record here so I think I'm going to chalk it up to glowing LORs, coupled with some sort of academic pursuit and a good personality.

 

[glade]

Well, at that point it's a little complex. For example, a lot of times it's more about who you know. It's not even a matter of "I want to go into CRS and I know a CR surgeon." It's knowing anyone who has the ear of some fellowship director, including perhaps a PD or even a random attending who knew the director in residency. A lot of this stuff is sort of skeevy in a nepotism way, considering the stakes are high in terms of prestige and lifetime earnings, in my opinion. Some of it is "developed." Maybe your residency isn't well-known, but one guy once made it somewhere and did well. So he blazed the trail for another guy, who also did well. Now you have a good reputation at that place, making it easier to get into, so long as you don't eff it all up. Some of it is regional. A program may be more likely to be kind to people in their geographic territory. And of course a lot of it is the impression you give during interviews.

 

[SLUser11]

Well, at that point it's a little complex. For example, a lot of times it's more about who you know. It's not even a matter of "I want to go into CRS and I know a CR surgeon." It's knowing anyone who has the ear of some fellowship director....

Just to validate your comments, there is an insane amount of name-dropping that has gone on at every one of my interviews so far. One downside to my application is a lack of famous colorectal surgeons writing me letters. On one level, it makes me feel like I received good invitations based on my own merit, and not on the favor of a famous butt surgeon.

However, one of the things new to me is that many places want a phone call from your mentor near the match day to say you're ranking them high. That way, they can brag about how they didn't have to go far down their rank list to match their fellows. When that day comes, I don't have any famous friends, which could potentially hurt my chances of matching at certain institution. But, who knows....if I'm as awesome as I think I am, famous phone calls shouldn't matter.

Compared to residency interviews, one thing that has changed for sure is my energy level. I just finished my 6th interview, and I'm absolutely exhausted. Part of it is that the process for fellowship is much faster with interviews closer together....but a bigger part of it is probably that I'm becoming an old man.

Overall, however, things are going well with a lower stress level than 5 years ago. In general, the programs are much higher quality than for GS residency, so most places can provide you with excellent training. Six down, six to go, with the ACS clinical congress mixed in there as well.....

 

[glade]

That way, they can brag about how they didn't have to go far down their rank list to match their fellows.

That's ridiculous and juvenile. Why don't they just lie about it, which would take a lot less effort and be unverifiable? I mean, programs lie about everything else, so it's a little strange how they'd all of a sudden get ethics and morals when it comes to the rank list.

....but a bigger part of it is probably that I'm becoming an old man.

No hot women on the interview trail, eh?

 

[treehorsio]

Hey butt boys (or girls), would you be willing to list where you applied and where you interviewed? I plan to go along the same feces-lined track as you and, if you are willing, would love to start gathering data.

Good luck!

 

[SLUser11]

That's ridiculous and juvenile.

So is half the other hoops we jump through....but I agree. The best way would still be ranking places based on how well you liked them, and the programs doing the same. However, it's impossible not to factor in our huge surgical egos.

Hey butt boys (or girls), would you be willing to list where you applied and where you interviewed? I plan to go along the same feces-lined track as you and, if you are willing, would love to start gathering data.

Good luck!

That's one of the main reasons I started this thread. I felt that there was very little information out there, and I wanted to help out SDN while simultaneously complaining a lot.

However, since it's such a small world, I think it's best to wait until after the match to discuss the specifics of programs. What I will say is that overall, I've been surprised to find that pretty much everywhere I interviewed has excellent training and reasonable/affable attendings.

 

[glade]

No, I meant that it was ridiculous and juvenile that they're putting that much effort into gaming the system by guaranteeing beforehand that they'd get a "high Match" and pretending that it happened by chance rather than just cut to the chase and lie about it. Seriously, what a waste of time.

 

[ajlmd]

Hi guys,

Going through ERAS again has reminded me why I thought it was such a pain in the * the first time. Through ERAS, I designated cover letters for my LOR writers and gave each person the sheet when I asked for a letter a few weeks ago. i know that a few of my letter writers have already mailed them in. What is the deal with the separate EFDO sheet- does that also have to be sent in order for them to upload the letter?

Thanks in advance