I thought this would be an appropriate question to ask ACTUAL medical students

[Gut Shot]

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I don't see why you can't just tough it out for 5-10 years and live off of 50k or 60k a year.

Because you will have just finished toughing it out for 7-11 years to complete your training. As the saying goes, if you want to make God laugh, just formulate a plan.

 

[AggieSean]

292K @ 6.8% x 30 years = $1904/month

total paid: $685,303

177K @ 6.8% x 30 years = $1024/month

total paid: $368,467

net difference in repayment per month: $880
net difference in total loan repayment: $316,836

this is worth 4 years of california sun?

What he said. To nab a sweet residency you need to PWN the boards. Don't buy into the average board score thing because as has been repeated ad infinitum, it's all about YOUR effort. Even without future uncertainty regarding our reimbursement, less debt is always a better thing. Med school is med school.
Also factor in the cost of living that will be considerably less in Buffalo, especially housing.

 

[MILK07]

Doesn't USC, being a fancy private school, give out some aid?? They have to know their COA is ridiculous! Maybe hold out for financial aid packages to see if they give you any money, then make your decision.

I say go where you will be happiest. It will be four years of your life you'll never get back, might as well enjoy it as much as you can. I would pick the sun, too. Snow and cold makes me depressed. I would be much more productive in the sun!

 

[cpants]

Your goal should not be to be "happy" in medical school or to study in a specific state. Your goal should be to minimize your debt and maximize your grades and board scores. Where you do that largely does not matter. Doctors from USC and doctors from Buffalo pretty much end up making the same money and having the same career choices.

By the way we are talking about Buffalo here, not Baghdad. Buffalo is a normal, working-class city populated by good, hard working football fans. So the winter is a little cold....get a coat and grow up.

The people who are telling you "115k doesn't matter, just follow your heart" have probably never paid for anything significant in their lives. 115k is a ton of money, even for a doctor, especially when you consider declining salaries and compounding interest.

OP, call the financial aid office at Keck, tell them you really want to go but SUNY is offering you 115k less/yr, and financially you don't think you'll be able to. There is a chance they will try to help you out with a better package. If not, follow your brain, not your heart. Also, New Jersey is awesome.

 

[shindotp]

Your goal should not be to be "happy" in medical school or to study in a specific state. Your goal should be to minimize your debt and maximize your grades and board scores. Where you do that largely does not matter. Doctors from USC and doctors from Buffalo pretty much end up making the same money and having the same career choices.

By the way we are talking about Buffalo here, not Baghdad. Buffalo is a normal, working-class city populated by good, hard working football fans. So the winter is a little cold....get a coat and grow up.

The people who are telling you "115k doesn't matter, just follow your heart" have probably never paid for anything significant in their lives. 115k is a ton of money, even for a doctor, especially when you consider declining salaries and compounding interest.

OP, call the financial aid office at Keck, tell them you really want to go but SUNY is offering you 115k less/yr, and financially you don't think you'll be able to. There is a chance they will try to help you out with a better package. If not, follow your brain, not your heart. Also, New Jersey is awesome.

Why not follow that mindset his entire life?

After graduating med school, live off $50k for 5 years to use the rest of his salary to pay for debts. Then live off $50k for 10 more years to use the rest of the salary to pay off a home. Then live off $50k for 10 more years to make investments in mutual funds to make a decent return. Then live off $50k for 5 more years to save up enough to pay for your kids' college.

He would have successfully minimized debt his entire life. Except he lived off $50k until he was 60 years old.

 

[Jolie South]

Your goal should not be to be "happy" in medical school or to study in a specific state. Your goal should be to minimize your debt and maximize your grades and board scores. Where you do that largely does not matter. Doctors from USC and doctors from Buffalo pretty much end up making the same money and having the same career choices.

By the way we are talking about Buffalo here, not Baghdad. Buffalo is a normal, working-class city populated by good, hard working football fans. So the winter is a little cold....get a coat and grow up.

The people who are telling you "115k doesn't matter, just follow your heart" have probably never paid for anything significant in their lives. 115k is a ton of money, even for a doctor, especially when you consider declining salaries and compounding interest.

OP, call the financial aid office at Keck, tell them you really want to go but SUNY is offering you 115k less/yr, and financially you don't think you'll be able to. There is a chance they will try to help you out with a better package. If not, follow your brain, not your heart. Also, New Jersey is awesome.

I agree with this. Chances are that you won't be out and about in Buffalo enough to notice if it sucks or not. Your life will predominantly be studying.

I'd rather suffer through only 4 years than innumerable years post residency for a poorly defined prediction of "happiness" that I might get from living in Cali for 4 years. Medical school is medical school and you will learn the same things regardless.

 

[Jolie South]

Why not follow that mindset his entire life?

After graduating med school, live off $50k for 5 years to use the rest of his salary to pay for debts. Then live off $50k for 10 more years to use the rest of the salary to pay off a home. Then live off $50k for 10 more years to make investments in mutual funds to make a decent return. Then live off $50k for 5 more years to save up enough to pay for your kids' college.

He would have successfully minimized debt his entire life. Except he lived off $50k until he was 60 years old.

This is not the same thing. Education is a necessary investment to have this particular livelihood, but by taking on more now than is necessary, you are spending your future earnings. It's foolish when you don't know what the future economic climate will be, what your salary will be, or what flux will occur in healthcare policy.

 

[cpants]

Why not follow that mindset his entire life?

After graduating med school, live off $50k for 5 years to use the rest of his salary to pay for debts. Then live off $50k for 10 more years to use the rest of the salary to pay off a home. Then live off $50k for 10 more years to make investments in mutual funds to make a decent return. Then live off $50k for 5 more years to save up enough to pay for your kids' college.

He would have successfully minimized debt his entire life. Except he lived off $50k until he was 60 years old.

Ok, I don't see what your point is. You think we should not minimize debt, live within our means, or make wise investments? Isn't the ultimate goal at 60 to be debt free with huge savings and a comfortable retirement ahead of you? I won't get into the intracacies of mortgage or student loan repayment, but paying 115k more for the same education based on a gut feeling or a concept of how happy you will be for 4 years is stupid. It's like paying 200 extra bucks to get the black macbook with the same guts as the white one. Stupid.

 

[searun]

Doesn't USC, being a fancy private school, give out some aid?? They have to know their COA is ridiculous! Maybe hold out for financial aid packages to see if they give you any money, then make your decision.

I say go where you will be happiest. It will be four years of your life you'll never get back, might as well enjoy it as much as you can. I would pick the sun, too. Snow and cold makes me depressed. I would be much more productive in the sun!

I was accepted to USC two years ago and quickly turned USC down after I received its financial aid package. A small grant and a package of loans. A college buddy of mine is a third year student at USC med school and he estimates that he will be 300,000 in the hole when he graduates, including accrued interest from unsubsidized loans. USC is not particulary generous with its financial aid packages. I would buy a winter coat and go to Buffalo if I was the OP. I am from the West Coast and attending med school on the East Coast. It is an interesting change of environment. You adapt.

 

[drizzt3117]

I agree with this. Chances are that you won't be out and about in Buffalo enough to notice if it sucks or not. Your life will predominantly be studying.

Maybe that's true when you have ABCD grading and finish your preclinical training in 1.5 years, but this isn't true at every med school and it DEFINITELY isn't true at USC (which is pure PF).

I don't go to USC but from what I understand the students have a lot of fun, get great clinical training, and programs in CA like their students a lot, which is something to take into consideration if that's something you're interested in.

 

[Jolie South]

Maybe that's true when you have ABCD grading and finish your preclinical training in 1.5 years, but this isn't true at every med school and it DEFINITELY isn't true at USC (which is pure PF).

Maybe I should clarify. My going out is limited by 2 factors: 1) studying and 2) the limited funds that I have.

I do have a night or two off per week where I don't study, but generally I have drinks/cook dinner with friends at their places or hang out with my husband at home. I don't really get out to explore the city and what not. I mean I run at a local park in addition, but that's pretty much it. If something costs money, I'm usually not doing it.

So you see the locality is irrelevant, I could be doing these activities in any city.

 

[drizzt3117]

Maybe I should clarify. My going out is limited by 2 factors: 1) studying and 2) the limited funds that I have.

I do have a night or two off per week where I don't study, but generally I have drinks/cook dinner with friends at their places or hang out with my husband at home. I don't really get out to explore the city and what not. I mean I run at a local park in addition, but that's pretty much it. If something costs money, I'm usually not doing it.

So you see the locality is irrelevant, I could be doing these activities in any city.

You're not going to be taking a run in a local park in Buffalo when there's 5' of snow on the ground...

In any case, a lot of people ARE interested in the lifestyles that are possible and usual in their locales.

 

[DrWookie]

Ok, I don't see what your point is. You think we should not minimize debt, live within our means, or make wise investments? Isn't the ultimate goal at 60 to be debt free with huge savings and a comfortable retirement ahead of you? I won't get into the intracacies of mortgage or student loan repayment, but paying 115k more for the same education based on a gut feeling or a concept of how happy you will be for 4 years is stupid. It's like paying 200 extra bucks to get the black macbook with the same guts as the white one. Stupid.

I'm pretty sure the black macbook is actually slightly different on the inside as well. At least it was when they first started to make the black ones, maybe they changed.

In depends on the person but for me happiness is DIRECTLY connected with doing well on exams/important milestones in my life. Obviously other people may be different but the number 1 deciding factor for medical school, in my personal life, is where I will be happiest (well and for me where my significant other will be happiest).

 

[Jolie South]

You're not going to be taking a run in a local park in Buffalo when there's 5' of snow on the ground...

I don't run year round here either and there's 0" of snow per year.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't run year round here either and there's 0" of snow.

Yeah but not being ABLE to do something and not doing something is a totally different story. Living in the snowbelt, there are lots of time you CAN'T do outdoor activities (other than XC skiing or something)

I was in clinic yesterday and fully half the people complained about not being able to do outdoor activities because of the weather. When it's snowy and below zero, you don't even want to go outside, much less do things outside.

 

[Jolie South]

Yeah but not being ABLE to do something and not doing something is a totally different story. Living in the snowbelt, there are lots of time you CAN'T do outdoor activities (other than XC skiing or something)

I was in clinic yesterday and fully half the people complained about not being able to do outdoor activities because of the weather. When it's snowy and below zero, you don't even want to go outside, much less do things outside.

Depends on your perception. I don't want to go outside when it's like 30F regardless of the snow presence. It's all relative. To me, that IS cold and I won't go out and do anything.

You adapt to your environment. When I lived in Africa, I thought 50F was cold. Then, I got used to the colder temperatures when I got back.

 

[cpants]

Shoveling snow is great exercise.

 

[drizzt3117]

Depends on your perception. I don't want to go outside when it's like 30F regardless of the snow presence. It's all relative. To me, that IS cold and I won't go out and do anything.

Right, so if that were the case, you probably wouldn't be happy somewhere where it was less than 30 degrees outside for the majority of the year, right?

 

[Jolie South]

Right, so if that were the case, you probably wouldn't be happy somewhere where it was less than 30 degrees outside for the majority of the year, right?

see my edit above. You adapt. I adapted to hellishly hot temperatures in Africa when I lived there and couldn't deal with the cold when I got back.

I got used to colder temperatures again when I moved back in December. It's not that big of a deal really.

 

[drizzt3117]

I got used to colder temperatures again when I moved back in December. It's not that big of a deal really.

Colder temperatures in south Texas? lol

Sorry, but no one adapts to below zero temperatures. The human body isn't built to handle temperatures in that range. You can die in minutes from being outdoors in that kind of climate (w/o the right kind of clothing, obv, but even with it, people have their cars break down and freeze to death here sometimes, I just saw a hypothermia case a few weeks ago where the person tripped and hit their head and lay in a snowbank for an hour, their body core temperature was 78F). People just don't go outside.

 

[Jolie South]

Colder temperatures in south Texas? lol

Sorry, but no one adapts to below zero temperatures. The human body isn't built to handle temperatures in that range. You can die in minutes from being outdoors in that kind of climate. People just don't go outside.

But we can easily accomodate 120F without alteration of behavior? Ok. People didn't go outside then either. You wake up sweating, if you can get to sleep that is.

That's quite a difference from 20 or 30F, wouldn't you say?

 

[drizzt3117]

But we're somehow better equipped to survive in 120F? Ok.

That's quite a difference from 20 or 30F, wouldn't you say?

Certainly evolutionarily human beings are more suited to survive higher temperatures than lower temperatures. We haven't adapted to cold temperatures like animals with fur, etc.

 

[chiz2kul]

Your goal should not be to be "happy" in medical school or to study in a specific state. Your goal should be to minimize your debt and maximize your grades and board scores. Where you do that largely does not matter. Doctors from USC and doctors from Buffalo pretty much end up making the same money and having the same career choices.

By the way we are talking about Buffalo here, not Baghdad. Buffalo is a normal, working-class city populated by good, hard working football fans. So the winter is a little cold....get a coat and grow up.

The people who are telling you "115k doesn't matter, just follow your heart" have probably never paid for anything significant in their lives. 115k is a ton of money, even for a doctor, especially when you consider declining salaries and compounding interest.

OP, call the financial aid office at Keck, tell them you really want to go but SUNY is offering you 115k less/yr, and financially you don't think you'll be able to. There is a chance they will try to help you out with a better package. If not, follow your brain, not your heart. Also, New Jersey is awesome.

QFT. Grow up and buy a coat.

292K @ 6.8% x 30 years = $1904/month

total paid: $685,303

177K @ 6.8% x 30 years = $1024/month

total paid: $368,467

net difference in repayment per month: $880
net difference in total loan repayment: $316,836

this is worth 4 years of california sun?

😱 The numbers dont lie...

 

[Jolie South]

Certainly evolutionarily human beings are more suited to survive higher temperatures than lower temperatures. We haven't adapted to cold temperatures like animals with fur, etc.

Fine, I'll agree with that, but we don't live outside. The majority of summer where I live is going to be spent indoors because of the insufferable heat and humidity, just like the majority of the winter where you are is spent inside. It's just a different time of the year. Activities are limited in both extremes.

 

[NotAndrew]

292K @ 6.8% x 30 years = $1904/month

total paid: $685,303

177K @ 6.8% x 30 years = $1024/month

total paid: $368,467

net difference in repayment per month: $880
net difference in total loan repayment: $316,836

this is worth 4 years of california sun?

After seeing this how can you not go to Buffalo. Plus the 30 years was calculated at 6.8% interest whereas most of you loans from USC will be 8.5%. Also if you can pay $1900/month for USC than you should also pay $1900/month for Buffalo, this would cause your loan to be paid off much faster and save you even more than the $316,000.

 

[drizzt3117]

Fine, I'll agree with that, but we don't live outside. The majority of summer where I live is going to be spent indoors because of the insufferable heat and humidity, just like the majority of the winter where you are is spent inside. It's just a different time of the year. Activities are limited in both extremes.

right, but that's not an issue in southern california, because you can do any activity you want nearly all of the time. It doesn't rain and is temperate all of the time, and most people think that's worth paying for! Anyways, if those were my choices I would definitely choose SC. It was one of my top choices going into the cycle , a ton of my friends and PB classmates went there, and I think I would have been happy there, it's definitely a great school. By the time they offered me an interview I already had some better options so I decided to go there, but it's an awesome school and I think the students are generally really happy and do well after med school. For someone from the West Coast I think that's a no brainer regardless of finances especially when the difference in tuition is relatively small and the student in question would be acquiring significant debt in any case.

 

[linguini]

My brother goes to SUNY Buffalo so I've visited the area/campus. I don't know anything about the medical school but, in my opinion, Buffalo the city sucks the big one. It's seriously snowy, cold, dreary, and depressing (this coming from someone who lives in Boston so it's not like I'm a stranger to bad weather). Sure you can "adapt" to upstate/western NY weather...but you won't ever stop hating it. When people mention the "east coast" as being liveable and adaptable, I wonder how much exposure they've had to winter in Buffalo.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Lot of female reproductive organs in this thread (OMG TEH SNOW!!!!!one?)

Cold is more adaptable than Heat.

Weather gets cold...put on warmer clothes.

Weather gets hot...umm.

I'm from upstate NY.

 

[Jolie South]

right, but that's not an issue in southern california, because you can do any activity you want nearly all of the time. It doesn't rain and is temperate all of the time, and most people think that's worth paying for! Anyways, if those were my choices I would definitely choose SC. It was one of my top choices going into the cycle , a ton of my friends and PB classmates went there, and I think I would have been happy there, it's definitely a great school. By the time they offered me an interview I already had some better options so I decided to go there, but it's an awesome school and I think the students are generally really happy and do well after med school. For someone from the West Coast I think that's a no brainer regardless of finances especially when the difference in tuition is relatively small and the student in question would be acquiring significant debt in any case.

I can see that, but it still doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

[smq123]

Your goal should not be to be "happy" in medical school or to study in a specific state. Your goal should be to minimize your debt and maximize your grades and board scores. Where you do that largely does not matter. Doctors from USC and doctors from Buffalo pretty much end up making the same money and having the same career choices.

The people who are telling you "115k doesn't matter, just follow your heart" have probably never paid for anything significant in their lives. 115k is a ton of money, even for a doctor, especially when you consider declining salaries and compounding interest.

OP, call the financial aid office at Keck, tell them you really want to go but SUNY is offering you 115k less/yr, and financially you don't think you'll be able to. There is a chance they will try to help you out with a better package. If not, follow your brain, not your heart. Also, New Jersey is awesome.

Ok, I don't see what your point is. You think we should not minimize debt, live within our means, or make wise investments? Isn't the ultimate goal at 60 to be debt free with huge savings and a comfortable retirement ahead of you? I won't get into the intracacies of mortgage or student loan repayment, but paying 115k more for the same education based on a gut feeling or a concept of how happy you will be for 4 years is stupid.

These are really insightful posts, and put a good perspective on the importance of debt. 👍 Wise words.

OP - if you really hate Buffalo, and love, love, LOVE USC, then go. But bear in mind what cpants is saying: $115,000 is not an insignificant amount of money. BE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that losing out on that money is worth it to you.

 

[drizzt3117]

After seeing this how can you not go to Buffalo. Plus the 30 years was calculated at 6.8% interest whereas most of you loans from USC will be 8.5%. Also if you can pay $1900/month for USC than you should also pay $1900/month for Buffalo, this would cause your loan to be paid off much faster and save you even more than the $316,000.

Because you want to do residency on the West Coast and practice there? Four people from SUNY-Buffalo matched on the West Coast last year and all but one of those were in primary care. A lot of that is self-selection but how many residency directors on the West Coast have ever met someone from SUNY-Buffalo? The vast majority of people from USC match on the West Coast. I'm sure someone is going to chime in and say "just ace your boards and you can match anywhere you want" (I wish it was that easy) but you're far more likely to match on the West Coast going to USC than if you went to SUNY-Buffalo.

 

[circulus vitios]

I hate the cold weather but there's no way I'd spend an extra $115,000 just to be in California. It's only 4 years. Finish up med school then do residency somewhere warm.

 

[smq123]

A lot of that is self-selection but how many residency directors on the West Coast have ever met someone from SUNY-Buffalo? The vast majority of people from USC match on the West Coast. I'm sure someone is going to chime in and say "just ace your boards and you can match anywhere you want" (I wish it was that easy) but you're far more likely to match on the West Coast going to USC than if you went to SUNY-Buffalo.

🙄

And how do YOU know how many residency directors on the West Coast "have ever met someone from SUNY-Buffalo"? Because you yourself are a PD? Because you've applied for residency?

Please.

That's just silly.

The only "advantage" that you have when applying to CA for residency out of a CA med school is that PDs won't ask you "Why California?" If you have another legitimate reason for coming back to California, even that isn't an issue.

SUNY-Buffalo is a well known, well-respected state school whose alumni have demonstrated good clinical competence. I've worked with numerous people from that school, and they were all phenomenal residents. This is a silly reason to choose USC over SUNY-Buffalo, honestly.

 

[drizzt3117]

🙄

And how do YOU know how many residency directors on the West Coast "have ever met someone from SUNY-Buffalo"? Because you yourself are a PD? Because you've applied for residency?

Please.

That's just silly.

The only "advantage" that you have when applying to CA for residency out of a CA med school is that PDs won't ask you "Why California?" If you have another legitimate reason for coming back to California, even that isn't an issue.

SUNY-Buffalo is a well known, well-respected state school whose alumni have demonstrated good clinical competence. I've worked with numerous people from that school, and they were all phenomenal residents. This is a silly reason to choose USC over SUNY-Buffalo, honestly.

Please make the argument that you'll be just as likely to match on the West Coast from SUNY-Buffalo as USC... 🙄 There are more than 5000 SC med alumni in the LA area alone <shrug>

 

[efitzpat]

So the voices about money matters/money doesn't matters seem pretty mixed. So do the go where you want/who cares where you are people. Then how the heck do you make the decision? I'm the type of person that really likes to plan everything out, but I can't plan anything right now?!?! ANd I have no idea when I'll even get financial aid packages!

Do I go to the small, unranked school where everyone seemed SO HAPPY, that is near a ton of my family, but is in the freezing cold (which I lived in for 10 years of my life and am not a fan of due to the activities that I enjoy)?

Do I go to the school that offered me a partial scholarship but where everyone partied and had a great time even though thats not really me?

Do I go to the school in California that would cost a ****-ton of money but would be in the place I enjoy?

ARG!

 

[smq123]

Please make the argument that you'll be just as likely to match on the West Coast from SUNY-Buffalo as USC... 🙄 There are more than 5000 SC med alumni in the LA area alone <shrug>

The problem with looking at where people match from which school is that it's NOT statistically predictable.

I'm not going to match in California....because I simply didn't apply. There's no reason for me to go there, and I have other priorities than just going somewhere with a lot of sunshine. When you combine so many people across the country with different reasons to stay where they are....it's hard to look at match lists and draw any kind of correlation.

 

[drizzt3117]

So the voices about money matters/money doesn't matters seem pretty mixed. So do the go where you want/who cares where you are people. Then how the heck do you make the decision? I'm the type of person that really likes to plan everything out, but I can't plan anything right now?!?! ANd I have no idea when I'll even get financial aid packages!

Do I go to the small, unranked school where everyone seemed SO HAPPY, that is near a ton of my family, but is in the freezing cold (which I lived in for 10 years of my life and am not a fan of due to the activities that I enjoy)?

Do I go to the school that offered me a partial scholarship but where everyone partied and had a great time even though thats not really me?

Do I go to the school in California that would cost a ****-ton of money but would be in the place I enjoy?

ARG!

I'd try to talk to some people from the schools in question, especially ones that you met and think might have some perspective on the issue. Ultimately you need to decide what's most important to you, I would ultimately go to where you think you will thrive, though. In MY perspective, 4 years is a long time (5% of your life or so) and being somewhere you hate for that long really sucks.

 

[drizzt3117]

The problem with looking at where people match from which school is that it's NOT statistically predictable.

I'm not going to match in California....because I simply didn't apply. There's no reason for me to go there, and I have other priorities than just going somewhere with a lot of sunshine. When you combine so many people across the country with different reasons to stay where they are....it's hard to look at match lists and draw any kind of correlation.

Clearly there's a lot of self-selection but it's simply ridiculous to state that you're as likely to be able to match into the West Coast from SUNY-Buffalo compared to USC when nearly 100% of the USC class matches there (and that is the default situation) as opposed to a small East Coast school with a lesser national reputation (and much lesser clinical reputation on the west coast) I understand that match lists are largely a reflection of preference in many cases, but they also reflect trends and the "default position" as well.

I doubt anyone is going to disagree with the following statement. "You are more likely to match into a West Coast residency as a graduate from USC as opposed to SUNY-Buffalo"

 

[NotAndrew]

Because you want to do residency on the West Coast and practice there? Four people from SUNY-Buffalo matched on the West Coast last year and all but one of those were in primary care. A lot of that is self-selection but how many residency directors on the West Coast have ever met someone from SUNY-Buffalo? The vast majority of people from USC match on the West Coast. I'm sure someone is going to chime in and say "just ace your boards and you can match anywhere you want" (I wish it was that easy) but you're far more likely to match on the West Coast going to USC than if you went to SUNY-Buffalo.

When you play roulette you pay attention to the past results don't you?

 

[drizzt3117]

When you play roulette you pay attention to the past results don't you?

Please tell me you disagree with the statement I made in the previous post, thanks.

 

[NotAndrew]

Please tell me you disagree with the statement I made in the previous post, thanks.

I disagree with the statement you made in your previous post, your welcome.

 

[smq123]

I doubt anyone is going to disagree with the following statement. "You are more likely to match into a West Coast residency as a graduate from USC as opposed to SUNY-Buffalo"

But it's such an asinine thing to pick a school for.

1) It's assuming that you actually WANT to be in California for residency. Bizarrely enough, not everyone does. If you get married to someone, that person may need to leave CA for a job (because Lord knows that CA isn't in the best state, financially). You may need to live somewhere else to get the best residency opportunity you can get (residency in CA can be hit-or-miss). It's a ridiculous thing to bank on - the assumption that you will want to stay in CA for residency 3-4 years from now.

2) You also have to prove that being from SUNY-Buffalo will DEFINITELY harm your chances of getting in to a CA residency. But it doesn't. It may be statistically less likely that someone from SUNY-Buffalo will actually want to go to CA, for whatever reason, but it doesn't mean that they absolutely can't end up there. Or even that, all things being equal, that they're at a disadvantage.

Not a good reason to pick a school, to be honest.

So the voices about money matters/money doesn't matters seem pretty mixed. So do the go where you want/who cares where you are people. Then how the heck do you make the decision? I'm the type of person that really likes to plan everything out, but I can't plan anything right now?!?! ANd I have no idea when I'll even get financial aid packages!

Do I go to the small, unranked school where everyone seemed SO HAPPY, that is near a ton of my family, but is in the freezing cold (which I lived in for 10 years of my life and am not a fan of due to the activities that I enjoy)?

Do I go to the school that offered me a partial scholarship but where everyone partied and had a great time even though thats not really me?

Do I go to the school in California that would cost a ****-ton of money but would be in the place I enjoy?

ARG!

What kind of person are you? Do you need to have good friend and family support while studying? Or are you extremely independent and a bit of a loner?

Having friends at school is nice, and you'll make good friends no matter where you end up, but for me, having family nearby is crucial. It's nice to go to people who knew you before med school changed your way of thinking, your way of talking, and your way of looking at people.

Also, look at the clinical curriculums of every school that accepted you. How much time do they give you for Step 1? What are their Step 2 requirements? How much elective time do you get in MS3? Etc.

 

[drizzt3117]

But it's such an asinine thing to pick a school for.

1) It's assuming that you actually WANT to be in California for residency. Bizarrely enough, not everyone does. If you get married to someone, that person may need to leave CA for a job (because Lord knows that CA isn't in the best state, financially). You may need to live somewhere else to get the best residency opportunity you can get (residency in CA can be hit-or-miss). It's a ridiculous thing to bank on - the assumption that you will want to stay in CA for residency 3-4 years from now.

2) You also have to prove that being from SUNY-Buffalo will DEFINITELY harm your chances of getting in to a CA residency. But it doesn't. It may be statistically less likely that someone from SUNY-Buffalo will actually want to go to CA, for whatever reason, but it doesn't mean that they absolutely can't end up there. Or even that, all things being equal, that they're at a disadvantage.

Not a good reason to pick a school, to be honest.

Geography is very important for a lot of people. For me it was one of the most important reasons, and I can't imagine I'm the only person in this boat.

 

[cpants]

Clearly there's a lot of self-selection but it's simply ridiculous to state that you're as likely to be able to match into the West Coast from SUNY-Buffalo compared to USC when nearly 100% of the USC class matches there (and that is the default situation) as opposed to a small East Coast school with a lesser national reputation (and much lesser clinical reputation on the west coast) I understand that match lists are largely a reflection of preference in many cases, but they also reflect trends and the "default position" as well.

I doubt anyone is going to disagree with the following statement. "You are more likely to match into a West Coast residency as a graduate from USC as opposed to SUNY-Buffalo"

Learn the difference between correlation and causation.

 

[drizzt3117]

Learn the difference between correlation and causation.

Please prove that geography is NOT a factor in determining ultimate residency placement. Clearly doing a study is difficult if not impossible to actually determine what its effect is, but most people would agree it exists, at least IME.

 

[smq123]

Geography is very important for a lot of people. For me it was one of the most important reasons, and I can't imagine I'm the only person in this boat.

a) Geography encompasses more than just climate. Ease of finding a job there (particular for a spouse that is not in the medical field), quality of area schools (if you have children), proximity of family, etc.

b) But choosing a school for "geography" (by which you seem to mean mostly climate) and assuming that that type of "geography" will STILL matter 4 years from now, is not particularly compelling.

Please prove that geography is NOT a factor in determining ultimate residency placement. Clearly doing a study is difficult if not impossible to actually determine what its effect is, but most people would agree it exists, at least IME.

When looking at PDs surveyed, on what they factor in when choosing residents, whether the applicant comes from the east coast or the west coast is never seen as relevant.

You keep demanding proof of others, BUT WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? You keep citing anecdotal evidence that is hardly foolproof. And no, most people do not agree that it exists - where is your proof of THAT statement, first of all, and second of all, a review of old posts on SDN prove you incorrect.

 

[cpants]

Please prove that geography is NOT a factor in determining ultimate residency placement. Clearly doing a study is difficult if not impossible to actually determine what its effect is, but most people would agree it exists, at least IME.

You can't prove a negative. You are the one making a claim without evidence. I agree that there is a correlation. A correlation does not mean that going to SUNY will decrease your chances of getting a residency in CA. There are tons of other confounding variables. It may, in fact, be true that it is easier to get a residency in CA from a CA medical school, but you have presented no evidence to show that.

 

[NotAndrew]

Please prove that geography is NOT a factor in determining ultimate residency placement. Clearly doing a study is difficult if not impossible to actually determine what its effect is, but most people would agree it exists, at least IME.

Geography may be a factor, but again not everyone wants to live in California. The OP has said he will be happy in about 20 different states. So going to med school in Cali and spending an extra 115K(which will end up being 300K after interest) to avoid being "unhappy" for four years is ridiculous. This is even more true when you factor in the 4+ extra years you will be paying off your mschool loans if you go to USC.

 

[littlealex]

115k can't always buy you the opportunity to go to USC. Spend it when you are given the chance rather than sit in the freezing cold in Buffalo thinking about how you could be at a warmer and better school.

 

[RoadRunner17]

Paying an extra $300,000 over your lifetime (or I suppose $115-150k over 10 years) just so you can spend 4 years studying in the sun? I like California and all, having been to LA hundreds of times to visit my grandparents during the winter, but do you realize how ludicrous this sounds?