I thought this would be an appropriate question to ask ACTUAL medical students

[halekulani]

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Why does everyone have such a hard-on for California? Seriously people???? What is so great about this place? I've spent quite a bit of time there and I still don't get it.

I must be crazy to actually LIKE my school, and I have to drive 30 min into DETROIT to get to it.....

Also, winter is great! it doesn't snow enough here! Northern Michigan is way better this time of year....

most people not from california don't like it. i don't blame them. i think you have to live here and then you might just like it.

 

[JackInTheBox]

Wow. 36,000 a minute?

And I totally say "Legos."

Haha, same here. I thought it was interesting when the guy said that "Lego" is actually an adjective, not a noun.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

Because you will have just finished toughing it out for 7-11 years to complete your training. As the saying goes, if you want to make God laugh, just formulate a plan.

God can laugh all he wants.

Yeah, spending 4 years poor in med school followed by 3-8 more years poor during residency... followed by another 5 years of poorness after residency just doesn't sound like fun.

OP, minimize your debt. You will be studying most of the time. Take some of that money you are saving and use it for trips to LA during spring break/winterbreak ect. You are going to be studying most of the time so you won't notice the difference between the locations really.

Your "poor" is my "very comfortable".

My wife and I drive 10-year old import cars, live in a 1BR apartment, have basic cable, a cheap cell phone plan, and no expensive hobbies. Our last nice vacation was almost 2 years ago. We put a few thousand in savings this year. And our joint income was about $60,000 (I contributed very little to that, lol). We can't afford a house right now, and children would be very hard to afford. Is that really how you want to live after you finish 10-15 years of training? I doubt it.



1. It's dumb to pay off your mortgage in 10 years. You can write that interest off.
2. Why would you save up a half million dollars for your kid's college? They can pay for that crap on their own.
3. Why would you put a million in savings if you can live off $50K/year?

You completely missed the boat.

Most of my life I've lived with family in a studio apartment with basic cable. We lived off of government money; 50k would be more then double what we were living off of in S.F.

As of now I live on less than 1k a month and I'm perfectly content. Yes, I think I'd be pretty damn happy with 50k or less a year. I guess it's just more difficult for people who've had money to adjust downwards. As for me and many other it would be an adjustment upwards.

 

[vin5cent0]

Not a medical student, but I feel this falls more under common sense than anything.

You obviously greatly prefer the first school. Yes, $115,000 is a lot to save. However, is it worth making the next four years of your life even worse than it already will be? You have a lifetime to pay it off, so really, I don't think the savings outweigh the cons. This is especially true because you'll be making a high enough salary afterward that you'll be able to offset it rather quickly.

 

[flip26]

Not a medical student, but I feel this falls more under common sense than anything.

You obviously greatly prefer the first school. Yes, $115,000 is a lot to save. However, is it worth making the next four years of your life even worse than it already will be? You have a lifetime to pay it off, so really, I don't think the savings outweigh the cons. This is especially true because you'll be making a high enough salary afterward that you'll be able to offset it rather quickly.

Such a flawed assumption...

 

[Gut Shot]

God can laugh all he wants.

Unfortunately, it will always be at your expense.

 

[cpants]

Most of my life I've lived with family in a studio apartment with basic cable. We lived off of government money; 50k would be more then double what we were living off of in S.F.

Waaaa, the government didn't give you enough free money for HBO? How do you live with yourself paying for cable, when you are living on the backs of your fellow taxpayers. Time to reduce those entitlement payments.

 

[pianola]

Haha, same here. I thought it was interesting when the guy said that "Lego" is actually an adjective, not a noun.

I didn't talk to my ex-boyfriend for several months after he insisted it was LEGO and I said it was Legos.

 

[pianola]

I wonder what the OP is thinking after reading all of these discussions.

If I were him and could possibly afford to do so, I would go for a second look at both schools. If it were me and I could live with Buffalo, I would probably go there. But I could understand if s/he made a different choice.

The thought "$117K is a lot of money" does keep running through my mind.

But who knows? Maybe the OP will pick up a rich spouse or something.

 

[cpants]

You know, taking on hundreds of thousands in extra debt isn't just bad because it can limit your choices of material goods, it can influence your career decisions as well. Saddled with more debt it will be harder for you to choose careers like pediatrics, family medicine, non-profit medicine, even if you realize these are your passions in medical school. The debt is a burden, and choosing "happiness" now, may make it more difficult to choose happiness in the rest of your career.

 

[RoadRunner17]

I wonder what the OP is thinking after reading all of these discussions.

If I were him and could possibly afford to do so, I would go for a second look at both schools. If it were me and I could live with Buffalo, I would probably go there. But I could understand if s/he made a different choice.

The thought "$117K is a lot of money" does keep running through my mind.

But who knows? Maybe the OP will pick up a rich spouse or something.

He's probably laughing and drinking a cup of joe while reading the back-and-forth arguments between Californians and everyone else. But seriously, his name (sankondbest) is now a number so I am thinking that he's been banned or his account information got scrambled on a server somewhere.

 

[flip26]

You know, taking on hundreds of thousands in extra debt isn't just bad because it can limit your choices of material goods, it can influence your career decisions as well. Saddled with more debt it will be harder for you to choose careers like pediatrics, family medicine, non-profit medicine, even if you realize these are your passions in medical school. The debt is a burden, and choosing "happiness" now, may make it more difficult to choose happiness in the rest of your career.

I agree with this 100 percent.

The other way to look at this: if you go to medical school assuming you can afford a greater amount of debt because you are planning to go into a higher paying specialty is foolish, too. Perish the thought, but you may end up in one of the lower paying gigs...suddenly that $3,000 a month debt repayment is not such cinch.

 

[pianola]

You know, taking on hundreds of thousands in extra debt isn't just bad because it can limit your choices of material goods, it can influence your career decisions as well. Saddled with more debt it will be harder for you to choose careers like pediatrics, family medicine, non-profit medicine, even if you realize these are your passions in medical school. The debt is a burden, and choosing "happiness" now, may make it more difficult to choose happiness in the rest of your career.

Yeah, that's legit, too.

He's probably laughing and drinking a cup of joe while reading the back-and-forth arguments between Californians and everyone else. But seriously, his name (sankondbest) is now a number so I am thinking that he's been banned or his account information got scrambled on a server somewhere.

Oh I was wondering what happened with that.

 

[searun]

Here's the part where you fill in the rest of the audience on the size of your scholarships. I just crossed the six-figure line into student loans.

There are no bragging rights associated with being the recipient of need based grants. But I certainly do feel fortunate and grateful to have the help and definitely plan to try to fund a scholarship at my med school when it is my turn to leave this veil of tears.

 

[AugustWinterMan]

I sometimes wish that each school had a Pre-Med class that goes over the intricacies of the application cycle, important things to achieve so that you can pad your application, and the financial ramifications of your school decision. In very few other arenas would 115,000 (or 300k) be treated as transiently as it is in this thread.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

Waaaa, the government didn't give you enough free money for HBO? How do you live with yourself paying for cable, when you are living on the backs of your fellow taxpayers. Time to reduce those entitlement payments.

My grandma was a 70+ immigrant, my parents had abandoned me and my brother; I apologize for any tax payers that I've wronged.










.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

Unfortunately, it will always be at your expense.

Why are you grumpy until June, there's no need to be grumpy towards SDN folk.

 

[45408]

There are no bragging rights associated with being the recipient of need based grants. But I certainly do feel fortunate and grateful to have the help and definitely plan to try to fund a scholarship at my med school when it is my turn to leave this veil of tears.

My point was that my income suddenly moves much closer to yours if we add in what I'm taking out in loans.

Most of my life I've lived with family in a studio apartment with basic cable. We lived off of government money; 50k would be more then double what we were living off of in S.F.

As of now I live on less than 1k a month and I'm perfectly content. Yes, I think I'd be pretty damn happy with 50k or less a year.

You're paying rent+utilities+health insurance+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs+basic clothing on $1000 a month? Or do you have roommates or parents helping with that?

 

[MedStudentWanna]

You're paying rent+utilities+health insurance+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs+basic clothing on $1000 a month? Or do you have roommates or parents helping with that?

The poster said he's getting help from the government so groceries, health insurance and health care are probably free and if he's living in a dorm, it's covered with grant or scholarship money.

Health insurance alone can run you $400 a month. Add on rent and utilities and that adds up to a 1000 dollars pretty quickly.

 

[drizzt3117]

The poster said he's getting help from the government so groceries, health insurance and health care are probably free and if he's living in a dorm, it's covered with grant or scholarship money.

Health insurance alone can run you $400 a month. Add on rent and utilities and that adds up to a 1000 dollars pretty quickly.

Even if you had completely unsubsidized health care, at ~22 your premium would be $100 a month or so from Blue Cross/Blue Shield or similar insurer. Rent would probably be the biggest cost someone at that age would incur, that or car payment.

 

[Jolie South]

Even if you had completely unsubsidized health care, at ~22 your premium would be $100 a month or so from Blue Cross/Blue Shield or similar insurer. Rent would probably be the biggest cost someone at that age would incur, that or car payment.

maybe not, it's entirely dependent on the amount of coverage that you want.

 

[drizzt3117]

maybe not, it's entirely dependent on the amount of coverage that you want.

Clearly there are different plans, but the $100 plan I mentioned has the same level of coverage as an educational plan that you'd get at, say, a medical school. I'm not entirely sure that any 22 y/o without preexisting medical conditions would want anything with more coverage than that. Health care plans for young, healthy people are generally quite inexpensive.

 

[Jolie South]

Clearly there are different plans, but the $100 plan I mentioned has the same level of coverage as an educational plan that you'd get at, say, a medical school. I'm not entirely sure that any 22 y/o without preexisting medical conditions would want anything with more coverage than that. Health care plans for young, healthy people are generally quite inexpensive.

I'm over 22, but when I priced out plans last spring, there were none that came out to that amount at the same level of coverage as my school plan. That was the price for a no frills, high deductible type plan.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm over 22, but when I priced out plans last spring, there were none that came out to that amount at the same level of coverage as my school plan. That was the price for a no frills, high deductible type plan.

I dunno what to tell you <shrug> I was paying $134 a month for coverage for a plan that had similar coverage but significantly better prescription drug benefits than my current med school plan. It was through Kaiser Permanente. They had less expensive plans that didn't have quite as good of prescription drug benefits for ~$100.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Assuming you dont have a car payment let's go over some expenses:

3 gas tank fill ups per month: $90
Cheapo health insurance: $100
Food: $250 (~2.50 per meal)
Rent with a roommate in a cheap city $500
Utilities- $150
Spending cash/lunch money/going out money/incase-**** money $200

I'm at $1290 already.

If you are in a large city, double the rent.

As soon as you get out of the subsidized housing that is dorm life and move into the real world it becomes clear how fast your money goes. Now imagine you have a family. Add about $800 per child per month.

We are now around $3000/month.

Our grand total with 2 kids: $36,000 per year AFTER taxes. Before taxes you would need to make $52,000

In case you were wondering, that is less than a resident's salary. This includes no savings, no car payments, not owning a house, almost no spending money and assumes you live in a very cheap city. It also assumes you are not paying back any loans or debt. When you crunch the numbers, you realize that your expenses are higher than you think when you are in college.

The extra 115K is not worth it.

 

[searun]

Assuming you dont have a car payment let's go over some expenses:

3 gas tank fill ups per month: $90
Cheapo health insurance: $100
Food: $250 (~2.50 per meal)
Rent with a roommate in a cheap city $500
Utilities- $150
Spending cash/lunch money/going out money/incase-**** money $200

I'm at $1290 already.

If you are in a large city, double the rent.

As soon as you get out of the subsidized housing that is dorm life and move into the real world it becomes clear how fast your money goes. Now imagine you have a family. Add about $800 per child per month.

We are now around $3000/month.

Our grand total with 2 kids: $36,000 per year AFTER taxes. Before taxes you would need to make $52,000

In case you were wondering, that is less than a resident's salary. This includes no savings, no car payments, not owning a house, almost no spending money and assumes you live in a very cheap city. It also assumes you are not paying back any loans or debt. When you crunch the numbers, you realize that your expenses are higher than you think when you are in college.

The extra 115K is not worth it.

Gulp, I guess I will buy some more Trojans and stay single for awhile. Or marry a girl with a good job who does not want to get pregnant right away. I am 26 and finishing second year, so, ok, stay single, finish med school, date a bit in residency, keep the costs down as single guy, and hope for the best when I am around 33 or so. Well, OK. Yeah, I get it.

 

[searun]

"Oh as I was young and easy, in the mercy of his means, Time held me green and dying, though I sang in my chains like the sea"

 

[WannaBePreMed]

My point was that my income suddenly moves much closer to yours if we add in what I'm taking out in loans.


You're paying rent+utilities+health insurance+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs+basic clothing on $1000 a month? Or do you have roommates or parents helping with that?

I'm a foster youth so I have free health insurance from the state (I'm limited in where I can go though most doctors don't want to have to deal with medicare). No, my parents or grandparents don't pay a dime for any of my expenses. 1k a month is fine.

 

[DrWookie]

Gulp, I guess I will buy some more Trojans and stay single for awhile. Or marry a girl with a good job who does not want to get pregnant right away. I am 26 and finishing second year, so, ok, stay single, finish med school, date a bit in residency, keep the costs down as single guy, and hope for the best when I am around 33 or so. Well, OK. Yeah, I get it.

It is actually WORSE to do that.

The ideal situation would be to be in a long term relationship, with no children, and with a partner who pays her way (via a job or any other means).

Food is MUCH cheaper if you can cook/buy for two and split the costs. Rent is split in half, you can carpool lots of places and split costs.

I live in a fairly expensive area and spend ~$800 a month for EVERYTHING (except health insurance because I am still under my parents). We really spend more like $1600 dollars a month but I am only paying 800 for myself cause it is split in half. So I really only spend ~$9500 a year. Granted it will go up when I need to pay health insurance but still, that isn't bad.

EDIT: Just in case people ask I define "fairly expensive" based on the average house prices in the area. There is not a single house for sale for under $500,000 dollars in the neighborhood I live in, and most are above a million (With the most expensive being about 19 million on its own island). However, I did my research when finding a place to live and we have a just fine 1 bedroom apartment for 850 (and we only pay gas and cable/internet). So ya, you just have to be smart about where you live. The one nice thing about a relationship is you can split the rent on a ONE bedroom, whereas at our age no one really wants to split a one bedroom with a roommate.

 

[Styria]

I am from Upstate New York (near Binghamton) and attended the University at Buffalo.

-New York can be hot in the summer (90s easily), but the Great Lakes moderate the temperature some, including Buffalo. There's usually a breeze there. I don't remember it being unbearably cold in the winter either, but I tolerate that well anyway. The North campus is interconnected with tunnels and bridges, but I can't vouch for the medical school on the South campus.

-The snow pattern is such that most of the heavy snow falls south of Buffalo. It has to swing north to really hit the city, and while that does happen, it's not going to do so all the time. If you're living across the street, you'll be fine. Once Lake Erie freezes over, lake effect snow is lessened. Sleet and freezing rain are more dangerous anyway. You too can learn to drive in it. 😉

-It might not snow (vs. flurries) until after New Years. But New York is good for a surprise snow storm of 4 inches in April, even after it's been nice for a month. This kind is dangerous and slippery.

As for the months, if you learn to appreciate the beauty of snow, things will go by more easily. Driving in it isn't that hard; you just have to be willing to go out and play in it and find a good, empty, school parking lot. Test your stopping distance before you get out of your apartment parking lot. Etc.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Even if you had completely unsubsidized health care, at ~22 your premium would be $100 a month or so from Blue Cross/Blue Shield or similar insurer. Rent would probably be the biggest cost someone at that age would incur, that or car payment.

Dude, why do you pretend you know everything when you're so obviously clueless? Did you see the word CAN in my post? Because it was there. I said that health insurance CAN cost you up $400. My 21-year old cousin's insurance costs $378 from BCBS.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

I dunno what to tell you <shrug> I was paying $134 a month for coverage for a plan that had similar coverage but significantly better prescription drug benefits than my current med school plan. It was through Kaiser Permanente. They had less expensive plans that didn't have quite as good of prescription drug benefits for ~$100.

Your experience isn't everyone elses. Despite what you might think, the rest of us aren't idiots who need you to set us straight.

 

[drizzt3117]

Dude, why do you pretend you know everything when you're so obviously clueless? Did you see the word CAN in my post? Because it was there. I said that health insurance CAN cost you up $400. My 21-year old cousin's insurance costs $378 from BCBS.

Sucks to be them, I guess.

Your experience isn't everyone elses. Despite what you might think, the rest of us aren't idiots who need you to set us straight.

Right, because the average 21 year old pays $400/month for health insurance...

The good news is that there are quite a number of affordable health-insurance options out there, and navigating the maze of available policies is easier than ever with the help of the Internet. One site that offers a free service to consumers, www.eHealthInsurance.com, allows would-be health-insurance customers to compare rates on a secure Web server without requiring them to divulge pages of personal information. You'll find well-known and trusted insurance names like Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Health Net, Fortis, Golden Rule, Kaiser, and PacifiCare, depending on the zip code entered for the search.

A visit to the site illustrates how easy it is for a graduating student to shop for health insurance online. A search of policies available for 22-year-old males in California, for example, generates 30 plans ranging from $26 to $287.90 per month. In addition to the immediate at-a-glance comparisons (plan type, amount of deductible, etc.), the site also permits detailed comparisons of up to four plans at once.

If our same 22-year old male searches for short-term policies at eHealthInsurance, he can choose among 21 plans ranging in price from $33.50 to $103 per month. At such rates, a few months spent on out-of-pocket insurance premiums seems a very reasonable hedge against an unforeseen and costly medical condition.

www.ehealthinsurance.com

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Who said anything about average? I said it CAN cost $400. Since when does "can" mean it "will"? I find it hard to believe you made it past MCAT verbal.

 

[drizzt3117]

Who said anything about average? I said it CAN cost $400. Since when does "can" mean it "will"? I find it hard to believe you made it past MCAT verbal.

Right, if you have preexisting conditions or some reason why it should be higher, then it definitely could be the case, and I mentioned that in my previous post. For most premeds/med students health care won't be more than 20% of their budget. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with your example, it's generally always possible to find an exception to the general rule.

 

[pianola]

Also...there are quite a few 20-somethings out there who are saying 'screw insurance I'm not gonna get sick any time soon'.

So there's no particular reason to think that the health insurance would be a huge part of a $1000 budget. If anything, I would think it'd be the first thing to go.

Of course this is a theoretical argument seeing as the WannaBePremed already answered the question.

 

[vin5cent0]

Such a flawed assumption...

I don't really think so. You're already saddled with debt. You're making, lets say, $150,000 a year. $115,000 in debt isn't *that* bad when it comes down to that or your happiness, is it?

 

[45408]

I'm a foster youth so I have free health insurance from the state (I'm limited in where I can go though most doctors don't want to have to deal with medicare). No, my parents or grandparents don't pay a dime for any of my expenses. 1k a month is fine.

You skipped over all of the nuts and bolts. You can pay rent+utilities+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs (bus/train passes vs. car+gas+insurance+repairs)+basic clothing on $1000 a month?

$1000 a month would cover my car's new tires (which it needed) and my wife's contact lenses for a year (which she needs desperately). Yes, people live at the poverty line, but I can easily tell how many SDNers grossly overestimate how much a certain income will actually get them. Furthermore, my parents are making the same amount of money as my brother and his wife, but my parents have a much nicer house, more vehicles, more vacations, etc. If your parents/guardians are living at a certain level at $50K/year, you can't look at their lifestyle and say you'd be able to do the same until you were more established.

 

[Just Joshin]

I don't really think so. You're already saddled with debt. You're making, lets say, $150,000 a year. $115,000 in debt isn't *that* bad when it comes down to that or your happiness, is it?

Sounds like someone never took any kind of finance class. You think 115K is 115K? LOL so naive.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Oh, I forgot some dude on a message board who claims to be a med student knows better than all of the actual doctors and med students I have ever met. Everyone has told me that you will be spending so much time studying/in class/at the hospital that it does not matter where you live.

My experience (although naturally it doesn't count, cuz I'm only an MS0 😉) is that the people who tell me I "won't have time to study" go to schools in cities that are often considered less than desirable. There are plenty of med students who have time to go out on the weekends. Also, I think that people vastly underestimate Californians' attachment to California--it's not just about the weather.

EDIT: Love the belligerence in this thread. Don't even know why it still takes me aback.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

You skipped over all of the nuts and bolts. You can pay rent+utilities+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs (bus/train passes vs. car+gas+insurance+repairs)+basic clothing on $1000 a month?

$1000 a month would cover my car's new tires (which it needed) and my wife's contact lenses for a year (which she needs desperately). Yes, people live at the poverty line, but I can easily tell how many SDNers grossly overestimate how much a certain income will actually get them. Furthermore, my parents are making the same amount of money as my brother and his wife, but my parents have a much nicer house, more vehicles, more vacations, etc. If your parents/guardians are living at a certain level at $50K/year, you can't look at their lifestyle and say you'd be able to do the same until you were more established.

I mean I live near my campus so I don't have to worry about a car. I understand that my lifestyle isn't extravagant but I'm perfectly fine. I have plenty fun too. I go out with friends all the time and I always have money when I'm out. I swear to you 50k would go along way for me. Of course in your case you have a wife (I'm guessing it's like 50k divided by two). I can say with confidence that if you make 50k w/o any dependents (wife, kids) you'll be somewhat comfortable.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I mean I live near my campus so I don't have to worry about a car. I understand that my lifestyle isn't extravagant but I'm perfectly fine. I have plenty fun too. I go out with friends all the time and I always have money when I'm out. I swear to you 50k would go along way for me. Of course in your case you have a wife (I'm guessing it's like 50k divided by two). I can say with confidence that if you make 50k w/o any dependents (wife, kids) you'll be somewhat comfortable.

Based on the various threads on SDN, I'm going to guess that the average person on here comes from a family that makes 200K. I'm just totally pulling that out of the air but I'm basing that on the many comments people make that imply 60k is like the poverty line or something.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Based on the various threads on SDN, I'm going to guess that the average person on here comes from a family that makes 200K. I'm just totally pulling that out of the air but I'm basing that on the many comments people make that imply 60k is like the poverty line or something.

60k in the future is quite decent money and very livable. 2$ gas and houses priced at something closer to a sensible value.

60k over these last five years is NOT enough to live the "American Dream" in most places, mainly because homes cost 250k+ (10 years salary if you are putting 100% income into mortgage payments, and that is with a very generous interest rate). 4$ gas, foot prices on the rise, health insurance costing well over 1k/month for a family.

Not that 60k isn't totally, comfortably livable, but you are definitely not building equity and you are renting the place you live in.

 

[DrWookie]

You skipped over all of the nuts and bolts. You can pay rent+utilities+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs (bus/train passes vs. car+gas+insurance+repairs)+basic clothing on $1000 a month?

$1000 a month would cover my car's new tires (which it needed) and my wife's contact lenses for a year (which she needs desperately). Yes, people live at the poverty line, but I can easily tell how many SDNers grossly overestimate how much a certain income will actually get them. Furthermore, my parents are making the same amount of money as my brother and his wife, but my parents have a much nicer house, more vehicles, more vacations, etc. If your parents/guardians are living at a certain level at $50K/year, you can't look at their lifestyle and say you'd be able to do the same until you were more established.

I spend less than $1000 a month for all those things you listed. I actually spend ~$800 dollars a month for allthose things you listed. And that includes cable TV/internet (which is a luxury).

How often do you buy "basic clothing"? I mean seriously...You have a pair of pants and you wear them for an extended period of time. Why is clothing factoring into every month's expenses? And repairs you can't really factor in on a "month to month" basis because they don't occur every single month.

 

[linguini]

I spend less than $1000 a month for all those things you listed. I actually spend ~$800 dollars a month for allthose things you listed. And that includes cable TV/internet (which is a luxury).

How often do you buy "basic clothing"? I mean seriously...You have a pair of pants and you wear them for an extended period of time. Why is clothing factoring into every month's expenses? And repairs you can't really factor in on a "month to month" basis because they don't occur every single month.

You must have a Y chromosome 🙄

 

[DrWookie]

You must have a Y chromosome 🙄

Damn you caught me...

I do have fairly expensive taste in clothing though...I just don't buy it all the time. I tend to try and rely on family during christmas and birthday to meet my needs 🙂 I'd go broke otherwise.

 

[DOquestions]

Damn you caught me...

I do have fairly expensive taste in clothing though...I just don't buy it all the time. I tend to try and rely on family during christmas and birthday to meet my needs 🙂 I'd go broke otherwise.

Purchasing expensive clothing is overrated. I have not purchased a new piece of clothing in two years. My sweaters are starting to fade and are not keeping me as warm as new sweaters do. So I might purchase three new sweaters to wear the next couple of years (shouldn't cost more then $60). For dress pants, I just look for sales and get them cheap. I can get four pairs of dress pants for $100 or less. For dress shirts, those are cheap. The mall usually has $5 sales for dress shirts.

Edit: A fool will spend $70 for a single dress shirt, $125 for a fancy pair of dress pants, $50 for a tie, etc.

 

[pianola]

I have a friend in law school who reports to be 'living' on $10K a year. And by living I mean most of his meals are 20-cent ramen. Yeah. He's totally miserable. (Also he's living in Los Angeles).

 

[smq123]

I don't really think so. You're already saddled with debt. You're making, lets say, $150,000 a year. $115,000 in debt isn't *that* bad when it comes down to that or your happiness, is it?

Just wait until you have to sit in your med school's required financial aid exit interview. The figure on your account will take your breath way.

And, by the way, what part of the country do you live in that doesn't charge interest on your loans? $115,000 in debt will eventually become somewhere in the neighborhood of $300,000 in debt, with interest.

Quite a different situation, isn't it?

You skipped over all of the nuts and bolts. You can pay rent+utilities+health care expenses+groceries+transportation costs (bus/train passes vs. car+gas+insurance+repairs)+basic clothing on $1000 a month?

$1000 a month would cover my car's new tires (which it needed) and my wife's contact lenses for a year (which she needs desperately). Yes, people live at the poverty line, but I can easily tell how many SDNers grossly overestimate how much a certain income will actually get them. Furthermore, my parents are making the same amount of money as my brother and his wife, but my parents have a much nicer house, more vehicles, more vacations, etc. If your parents/guardians are living at a certain level at $50K/year, you can't look at their lifestyle and say you'd be able to do the same until you were more established.

👍👍👍

They should PM a copy of this to everyone who signs up as a pre-med or a med student. Really good post.

My experience (although naturally it doesn't count, cuz I'm only an MS0 😉) is that the people who tell me I "won't have time to study" go to schools in cities that are often considered less than desirable. There are plenty of med students who have time to go out on the weekends. Also, I think that people vastly underestimate Californians' attachment to California--it's not just about the weather.

- As an MS3, no you won't have time to go out. On surgery, the only way I knew what the weather had been like that day was looking at the sidewalk on my way home. If there were snow on the ground, I would guess that it had snowed. Otherwise, no, I never went outside, and I rarely looked out the window. On OB, I had weekends off....but I spent large portions of those weekends either in the coffeeshop studying, or sleeping. On IM, I was working almost every single weekend. And on peds, when I had weekends off, I was either too busy planning for 4th year or being clinically depressed. I hated that rotation.

- As an MS1 and an MS2, while you may go out many weekends, I wouldn't necessarily assume that it's going to be a given.

The pendulum on SDN seems to have swung from one extreme (I study 23 hours a day, 6 days a week!) to the opposite (I study an hour or two a day, and never on weekends!).

Until YOU start med school, you can't guess how much time you're going to be spending studying. You may be the one person at your anatomy lab table who has such poor visuo-spatial understanding that you're barely passing. (Don't laugh or roll your eyes - I have had many classmates, who went on to get AOA-level grades, who almost failed out anatomy.)

Or your boyfriend may dump you the night before your first biochem exam, and you have to spend the rest of the course desperately playing catch-up. (Nothing like realizing that you need a 97% on the rest of the course just to pass.)

Or you realize during MS1 that you LOVE derm, and now actually DO have to spend 6 days a week studying for 10-12 hours a day.

It's really hard to tell where you're going to fall. So don't assume "Oh, the weather will really matter, because I'm going to have enough free time to actually enjoy it." I have had several friends and classmates who have fallen into all of those categories that I just named. You may fall into one of them, too.

And, no, it's not all about the weather either. But unless you have severe emotional or sentimental ties to California, is it worth $115,000 in extra costs, which will translate to close to $300,000? THAT is the real question.

 

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I mean I live near my campus so I don't have to worry about a car. I understand that my lifestyle isn't extravagant but I'm perfectly fine. I have plenty fun too. I go out with friends all the time and I always have money when I'm out. I swear to you 50k would go along way for me. Of course in your case you have a wife (I'm guessing it's like 50k divided by two). I can say with confidence that if you make 50k w/o any dependents (wife, kids) you'll be somewhat comfortable.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining, and I am comfortable. We went skiing with my family last month for two days, and I just got an Xbox. However, we live in a modest 1BR apartment and drive old Japanese cars. I can just tell that many people on SDN have no idea what it's like to pay all of your bills for more than a few months at a time, if that.