I want to go into medicine, but I really value my free time.

[tentomruler]

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Should I go?

 

[cheechootrain]

Should I go?

It's up to you if you want to get on the train. It's a long trip and there are no snacks served. But if you really want to be a physician, then you'll be willing to give up your free time.

 

[Mountaineer12]

The consensus seems to be that you still have free time in your preclinical years and you can have it as an attending as well depending on what field you choose. Be ready to give it up for the clinical years of med school and residency though.

 

[Barcu]

The consensus seems to be that you still have free time in your preclinical years and you can have it as an attending as well depending on what field you choose. Be ready to give it up for the clinical years of med school and residency though.

Agree with this. MS1 and 2 aren't bad. MS3 and 4 are. Residency will also be 80 hours per week in the hospital (and more outside) which can last anywhere from 3 to 7 years.

It depends on the specialty that you choose what kind of schedule you may have in the future. You never know what specialty you may end up liking, and you never know how much you will need to work to pay off loans, buy a house, support a family, etc.

It's possible, but going in with the expectation of walking out with 40 hour a week job is risky.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I thought 4th was essentially a half year vacation?

 

[drizzt3117]

Meh, you can always be a hospitalist or do EM (or path).

 

[FSU2013]

It's up to you if you want to get on the train. It's a long trip and there are no snacks served. But if you really want to be a physician, then you'll be willing to give up your free time.

Ummmm, I'd like to introduce you to my two favorite people in the hospital please meet Drug Rep and Medical Equiptment Sales Rep. You should be friends.

 

[FSU2013]

Meh, you can always be a hospitalist or do EM (or path).

I don't know about where youre at, but the hospitalists here work a ton.

 

[Doudline]

You know op, once you're out of residency, the number of hours you do is mostly yours.
Nothing keeps you from being a neurosurgeon and working "only" 45 hours/week, or a derm with 35h/w. Of course, you won't make 500K/year that way, but you will still live more than comfortably and have plenty of free time.

(This is not necessarily true right off the bat - you've gotta find the good working environment and all and you'll be highly pressured to do more hours - but it truly is possible if you really want to.)

 

[music2doc]

I value my free time

So will your patients... and they will call you/your office/your dept quite often during it with "emergencies." Medicine doesn't end when you go home. I think this is truly something you need to work out for yourself. Where are your priorities and what do you want to do with your life? This isn't something an online forum can decide for you.

 

[jl lin]

Should I go?

ROFLMAO

Maybe you'll be alright if you go into ED, but getting through it in order to get to attending. . .free time?. . .lol. . .pretty minimal.

 

[jl lin]

You know op, once you're out of residency, the number of hours you do is mostly yours.
Nothing keeps you from being a neurosurgeon and working "only" 45 hours/week, or a derm with 35h/w. Of course, you won't make 500K/year that way, but you will still live more than comfortably and have plenty of free time.

(This is not necessarily true right off the bat - you've gotta find the good working environment and all and you'll be highly pressured to do more hours - but it truly is possible if you really want to.)

I can't think of any neurosurgeons that work 45 hours per week. It's not just OR time if you go that route-- lots of on-call - consults for trauma, emergencies and urgent cases - plus office ours and scheduled OR time-- all of this doesn't leave a lot of control over their own time. And it's a very long, hard road getting there.

 

[MedPR]

ROFLMAO

Maybe you'll be alright if you go into ED, but getting through it in order to get to attending. . .free time?. . .lol. . .pretty minimal.

I can't think of any neurosurgeons that work 45 hours per week. It's not just OR time if you go that route-- lots of on-call - consults for trauma, emergencies and urgent cases - plus office ours and scheduled OR time-- all of this doesn't leave a lot of control over their own time. And it's a very long, hard road getting there.

Says the troll career RN.

 

[Doudline]

I can't think of any neurosurgeons that work 45 hours per week.

Yeah, probably because people always tell new surgeons: "I can't think of any neurosurgeons that work 45 hours per week." + "You've failed your life if you don't earn a million/year and appear like an OR mini-god from week -1".

 

[yuiness]

I thought 4th was essentially a half year vacation?

4th year is basically a half-year vacation. At least, it can be if you want it to be. If you want to work your ass off, that's up to you.

 

[sjlamb77]

Should I go?

What I've gathered is that in terms of free time, ms4>ms1>ms2>ms3. Residency depends on your specialty. IM and GS of course demand your soul, but I've heard, for instance, psych and path residents are super happy individuals b/c they love the work (which I hope any specialty would), but they also have a great work/life balance.

Med school will depend on how disciplined you are with your time; residency will depend largely on what you go into. As an attending, for the most part, I've heard you can pretty well control your own hours.

 

[group_theory]

Yeah, probably because people always tell new surgeons: "I can't think of any neurosurgeons that work 45 hours per week." + "You've failed your life if you don't earn a million/year and appear like an OR mini-god from week -1".

Once done with training, the reality is that if you join a busy group, the group expects you to do your fair share (if not more) of the load (to earn your keep). You are the brand new hire, so you are likely to expect to take more calls than the senior partners. If the group has hospital privileges at a hospital (or maybe more than one hospitals), which is require if you want to operate in the hospital, then a lot of hospitals will require that your group take call for the ER/Trauma (even if it is uncompensated). If you join a busy practice where they need extra help (hence why they hire you), they expect you to pick up the slack (or else why did they hire you?). If you take over a practice because someone just left/retired, then the staff and patients expect you to maintain the same workload. Even then, they expect you to share in the call-pool .... else why would they hire you?


If you start your own practice, you can dictate your own schedule because you are your own boss. But you also don't have a reputation in the community yet, nor do you have your own established patient base, so your referral pattern will be dependent on your good will with the community physicians. Not being available and having limited hours will certainly make local physicians think twice about referring patients to you. It can take years to establish a stable referral pattern as well as a stable patient base (which mean your income will be highly variable). Even then, who will take calls at night/weekends/vacations? This is on top of being a small business owner (negotiating lease, hiring/firing, human resources, billing, paperwork, etc) (your income will essentially be money received minus expenses. money received might not be what is billed since insurance can/do deny claims, and they can take months to reimburse (account receivable). So you are dependent on having seeing patients/operating to bill to generate income. You don't see patients or operate, you don't bill, you don't bill, you don't receive any income. But don't worry, the expenses will still be there)

Now if you find a hospital or group practice that is desperate for physicians (warning flag: why are they desperate and having a hard time attracting physicians?) you may be able to negotiate better terms (like more time off, fewer calls, etc) ... but remember, you can be easily replaced if they can find someone else (not necessarily better, just someone else) who is willing to do more calls, more weekends, more holidays (for more pay). Remember, it is not just your compensation that is a business expense, but also your malpractice insurance premiums, your benefit packages (retirement, health, life, cme, etc). If you are already working limited hours and not taking as much call, you are not generating enough RVUs (nor earning much endearment from the rest of the group) to keep you if they find someone else.

Medicine is a business. If you don't generate revenue for your employer (whether it is a group or hospital), then there is no reason to keep you or pay you.

 

[group_theory]

So will your patients... and they will call you/your office/your dept quite often during it with "emergencies." Medicine doesn't end when you go home.

What patients consider "emergencies" that warrant that 2AM saturday morning phone call ... and what you consider emergencies are two different things

 

[Moosepig]

In before argument over the competitiveness of matching derm.

 

[Doctor Strange]

 

[Kaputt]

1. Everyone values their free time. You're not a special snowflake because you do, and it's not a unique question that you're asking. If you used the search function you'd have found a billion threads discussing this.
2. Virtually any job where you're making a good income will have you working long hours.
3. There is a vast spectrum of fields you could go into with varying time commitments in medicine. Chances are you could find something to suit your desires.
4. Residency will be a miserable timesuck no matter what field you go into, so you'll definitely have to wait until you're free of that to actually have some semblance of control over your schedule (though in some fields you will never get it back).
5. You will be miserable if you don't actually enjoy this stuff, no matter how many hours you work. Same is true for any job.

 

[jl lin]

Says the troll career RN.

What is that supposed to mean?

I'm pretty tolerant, but that's 1. There's no reason for you to behave like a D!@% toward me. That's pretty lame. This definitely sounds like the attitude of a less than mature, pre-med allo.

 

[jl lin]

Once done with training, the reality is that if you join a busy group, the group expects you to do your fair share (if not more) of the load (to earn your keep). You are the brand new hire, so you are likely to expect to take more calls than the senior partners. If the group has hospital privileges at a hospital (or maybe more than one hospitals), which is require if you want to operate in the hospital, then a lot of hospitals will require that your group take call for the ER/Trauma (even if it is uncompensated). If you join a busy practice where they need extra help (hence why they hire you), they expect you to pick up the slack (or else why did they hire you?). If you take over a practice because someone just left/retired, then the staff and patients expect you to maintain the same workload. Even then, they expect you to share in the call-pool .... else why would they hire you?


If you start your own practice, you can dictate your own schedule because you are your own boss. But you also don't have a reputation in the community yet, nor do you have your own established patient base, so your referral pattern will be dependent on your good will with the community physicians. Not being available and having limited hours will certainly make local physicians think twice about referring patients to you. It can take years to establish a stable referral pattern as well as a stable patient base (which mean your income will be highly variable). Even then, who will take calls at night/weekends/vacations? This is on top of being a small business owner (negotiating lease, hiring/firing, human resources, billing, paperwork, etc) (your income will essentially be money received minus expenses. money received might not be what is billed since insurance can/do deny claims, and they can take months to reimburse (account receivable). So you are dependent on having seeing patients/operating to bill to generate income. You don't see patients or operate, you don't bill, you don't bill, you don't receive any income. But don't worry, the expenses will still be there)

Now if you find a hospital or group practice that is desperate for physicians (warning flag: why are they desperate and having a hard time attracting physicians?) you may be able to negotiate better terms (like more time off, fewer calls, etc) ... but remember, you can be easily replaced if they can find someone else (not necessarily better, just someone else) who is willing to do more calls, more weekends, more holidays (for more pay). Remember, it is not just your compensation that is a business expense, but also your malpractice insurance premiums, your benefit packages (retirement, health, life, cme, etc). If you are already working limited hours and not taking as much call, you are not generating enough RVUs (nor earning much endearment from the rest of the group) to keep you if they find someone else.

Medicine is a business. If you don't generate revenue for your employer (whether it is a group or hospital), then there is no reason to keep you or pay you.

Exactly.

 

[jl lin]

Yeah, probably because people always tell new surgeons: "I can't think of any neurosurgeons that work 45 hours per week." + "You've failed your life if you don't earn a million/year and appear like an OR mini-god from week -1".

No, it's b/c I have worked in healthcare in the hospital for quite some time, and the truth is I can't think of ANY neurosurgeon that works hours like that. Maybe if he/she is semi-retired and has a teaching position.

 

[FSUseminoleEM1]

It's up to you if you want to get on the train. It's a long trip and there are no snacks served. But if you really want to be a physician, then you'll be willing to give up your free time.

Strong content to name ratio.

I apologize for having nothing else to add.

 

[Silent Cool]

I don't know about where youre at, but the hospitalists here work a ton.

How much are talking? Are they clearing 300K? I know that in smaller communities the hospitalists can make 300K+.

 

[mcloaf]

How much are talking? Are they clearing 300K? I know that in smaller communities the hospitalists can make 300K+.

This thread is >1yr old.

 

[Gauss44]

Should I go?

Factors to consider:

1. Did you already take medical school classes as an undergrad. That should save you time.

2. If you had your IQ tested, how were your math and science skills relative your peers? If your IQ is better than 99% of the population, I suspect that will save you time.

3. Are you an efficient person in general?

etc.

IMO, people are =/= intellectually. (And I am tempted not even to say "IMO." If you've ever suffered a significant concussion, you KNOW the meaning of different levels of brain power.)

If you are looking for a baseline, or how much time the average person has, that might be useful. I say "might" because then you have to get a sense of who's average and how you compare.

 

[BlueLabel]

Factors to consider:

1. Did you already take medical school classes as an undergrad. That should save you time.

2. If you had your IQ tested, how were your math and science skills relative your peers? If your IQ is better than 99% of the population, I suspect that will save you time.

3. Are you an efficient person in general?

etc.

IMO, people are =/= intellectually. (And I am tempted not even to say "IMO." If you've ever suffered a significant concussion, you KNOW the meaning of different levels of brain power.)

If you are looking for a baseline, or how much time the average person has, that might be useful. I say "might" because then you have to get a sense of who's average and how you compare.

THREAD IS A YEAR OLD AND OP IS BANNED

Can we get a mod in here to clean this up please?