I want total and utter honesty. I will take any criticism.

[CaribbeanBlue]

I just wanted to see my chances as of now. Feel free to tell me if I am wasting my time with MD schools and if I should just shoot for DO schools. I refuse to go to the Caribbean medical schools. I am assuming I have no chance for the Ivies or UC's at this point and that I should just stick towards mid-lower tier MD schools in the US.

Any one have advice for me? Anything would be greatly appreciated.

Undergrad: Big top 10 public school, top 35 overall in the nation. Class size: ~4500
Year: 4 (Senior)
Human Biology Major
White Male
Middle Upper Class
State: California

cGPA: 3.57 (realistically ending the year with over a 3.6 with some easy classes)
sGPA: 3.75-3.8 (All A's/A+'s in science/major courses except for a B- in some elective genes/development course where I had issues with a grading, but I won't go there. I also received a B in the second class of physiology... I'm afraid this KILLED my chances along with my Ochem grades for the 3 quarters: A/B+/B+, if it means anything I got an A in the ochem lab to try and make up for the B+'s.)

The big difference in my overall and science GPA's results from a C- I received in one of my 3 required english courses that was worth 1.5x more units towards the GPA than the other classes on my transcript. I finished off the series with an A- in the third English course if that shows improvement. I
also received a C+ in one of my earlier economics courses my 2nd year. Will these individual grades hurt me?


Have not taken MCAT. Planning on taking it before I apply next June (2012) so I can apply right away. Realistically, I think I'm going to get around a 28-32, assuming I do worse than the (easier) practice exams. My biggest issue is verbal which I'm hoping to get above an 8 on.

EC's:
Captain/President of a traveling sports club (2 years, involved all of undergrad)

Co-President/Executive board member of nonprofit organization that travels to central American countries on breaks to set up primary care clinics. (3 years on officer board).

Undergraduate research in molecular biology (1 year) under professor and postdoc. No official publications.

I am also a TA for biology classes (only for this last, 4th year)

Few other leadership roles of some random clubs that aren't typically as important to me as the ones I've stated above.

Should I do more volunteering or something? I feel like if I do anything else in this last year, I'll just be risking my GPA and that I should just focus on more clinical experience on the year off.


Thank You.

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[TriagePreMed]

I'm known in these boards for being "blunt" with my criticism. In this case, I have nothing negative to say. Assuming an MCAT of over 30, you should be fine for MD, although California schools would still be considered a gamble.

 

[Morzh]

You're GPA's are just fine. Nobody cares about B's. They don't even care about a few C's, especially in English classes from your freshman year. Your ECs are amazing. Assuming you get a balanced MCAT in the range you are hoping for (with all sections at least 8), you will have a very good chance at MD schools.

What I'm wondering is who in the world led you to believe your application-in-progress was "killed" by a few non-A grades in notoriously tough classes. Or are you just fishing?

 

[Nymphicus]

I got a C in Ochem 1.
Did it hurt me? Yes
End of the world? Apparently not

 

[Catalystik]

US-based clinical experience? Any clinical experience?
US Physician shadowing?

 

[cyanide12345678]

Your application looks pretty good so far. Though the +/- grades don't count on your AMCAS, so seeing that you've received several of those, you might wanna go back and calculate ur AMCAS GPA. But, you definitely have a good shot at MD. However, nothing can be said until you take your MCAT. Score a 30-ish (preferably even) and apply broadly to 20 or so schools, then you should be fine.

Though, you should throw in some research and volunteering/shadowing into the mix before applying.

 

[CaribbeanBlue]

@TriagePremed: Thanks for the input! I want to know if I would even have a slight chance at the UCs or if the applications would essentially be a wast of my time.

@Morzh: I just found out about the B in the physiology course last night so I was definitely thinking it looks pretty bad to Medical school admissions. I did get an A in the first physiology class. Basically, my school has part one and part two of the physiology and I just got a B in the second one, unfortunately. I just feel I have a lot to make up for with the C- in my writing and assuming I'm not going to do exceedingly well on my MCAT.

@Nymphicus, Haha I don't think I will get anywhere close to a 37 on the MCAT, however.

@Catalystik: The only clinical experience I have is just the abroad program I did for three years. I was a board member freshman year and the leader for it my sophomore and junior years. Basically, it was only for a week long each year in the communities down in Central America. We would spend the year prepping for the next trip. Other than that, I have no other clinical hours or experience. I do have shadowing connections, but I'm not sure how important those are since I want to keep my GPA up.

@cyanide: So my B- will end up looking like a B, as will two of my ochem grades? Sheesh, so then maybe as long as I shoot for the A- then I'd be fine, I suppose. Realistically, my MCAT score is going to look something like a 30 with a score of like 8-10 in verbal so I want as much leeway as I can get.


Thank you for the responses. I don't need hope, however. I just want the realistic truth of how my chances are for medical schools. I feel like I should apply to like 40+ schools to be safe in getting in somewhere. Should I consider DO's?

 

[CaribbeanBlue]

Cyanide: I just found this: http://www.lewisassoc.com/handouts/GradeConversion.pdf

Are you sure they don't count the +/-s in my grades??

 

[TriagePreMed]

Cyanide: I just found this: http://www.lewisassoc.com/handouts/GradeConversion.pdf

Are you sure they don't count the +/-s in my grades??

+ and - does count for AMCAS and AACOMAS but not TMDSAS.

 

[Catalystik]

+ and - does count for AMCAS and AACOMAS

Except for A+, which counts the same as an A.

 

[CaribbeanBlue]

Catalystik, do you recommend doing clinical shadowing right away? I am taking a year off since I will be applying this June, so should I just hold off shadowing and clinical experience until summer? I was thinking of just working in the hospital for that year off. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Catalystik]

Catalystik, do you recommend doing clinical shadowing right away? I am taking a year off since I will be applying this June, so should I just hold off shadowing and clinical experience until summer? I was thinking of just working in the hospital for that year off. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

If you don't have these experiences by the time you apply, they will not be taken into account when your application is evaluated by med schools.

It's not that the international experience is worthless, it's just that it needs to be supplemented in the US, to show you can connect with patients like those you'll be working with in med school, that you understand basic policies of US clinical facilities, ad that you have an appreciation of what a US doc does all day and the issues relevant to practicing US medicine.

If you honestly can't get the needed experience before you submit your application, I suggest waiting a year to get in some substantial experience before applying (unless bearing the cost of a second application season would not be a financial burden). I'm not saying an acceptance as you are is impossible, but it's much less likely, based on feedback we get over and over from SDNers like you who applied prematurely.

 

[CaribbeanBlue]

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I don't have much contact to the physicians in the area and only ones from my home, which is why I was thinking of just doing shadowing at home. However, if what you say is true, they would really reject me from getting an interview with my lack of clinical experience in the US? Or could this be explained in the interview for what I will be doing the next year?

If I were to get some clinical experience, should I just volunteer in a hospital from now till june in hopes of that making a difference? Or would volunteering be a waste of time?

 

[LifeTake2]

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I don't have much contact to the physicians in the area and only ones from my home, which is why I was thinking of just doing shadowing at home. However, if what you say is true, they would really reject me from getting an interview with my lack of clinical experience in the US? Or could this be explained in the interview for what I will be doing the next year?

If I were to get some clinical experience, should I just volunteer in a hospital from now till june in hopes of that making a difference? Or would volunteering be a waste of time?

Unfortunately, yes if you can't show that you know what US medicine is like you are going to have trouble getting an interview.

I know this sucks, but the reason they expect shadowing/clinical exposure is so you can show you understand that being a Dr is like Scrubs or ER.

 

[CaribbeanBlue]

So what exactly is considered clinical exposure? Could it be just volunteering? If not/or so, how much would be considered enough to not be cut out automatically?

 

[Catalystik]

1) I don't have much contact to the physicians in the area and only ones from my home, which is why I was thinking of just doing shadowing at home.

2) However, if what you say is true, they would really reject me from getting an interview with my lack of clinical experience in the US? Or could this be explained in the interview for what I will be doing the next year?

3) If I were to get some clinical experience, should I just volunteer in a hospital from now till june in hopes of that making a difference? Or would volunteering be a waste of time?

1) You could get 40-50 hours of shadowing done over spring break or winter break.

2) IMO, you are less likely to get interviews and less likely to get an acceptance, if interviewed.

3) If you get the clinical experience started now for 3-4 hours a week (maybe more over the breaks), you'd have a decent amount on the application by June. You could continue over the summer and through the application year, letting schools know through update letters, Secondaries, or interview conversations. This could make a difference if adcomms are on a cusp about your application, encouraging them to think positively about you.

 

[varsityblue]

Your stats look OK, just make sure to apply to schools that are a good match.

There's no need to do more volunteering; if I were you, I'd simply emphasize your work in the nonprofit.

 

[CaribbeanBlue]

I still think Catalystik has a point. I will be shadowing this break as much as I can and will do the same for Spring break and just hope that the hours I rack up will be legitimate enough for the admissions to consider me to have US clinical exposure.

I'm not sure if I'm considered a match for any school since my cGPA is pretty much lower than most of the average accepted cGPA's in MD schools. That's why it's a little scary.

My question is now, should I even bother with the UC/ivy applications? Or just stick to some lower-mid tier MDs and some DO's for the sake of having more quality over quantity apps this summer?

 

[gloeotrichia]

I think volunteering in a hospital would be a good idea. I had pretty much zero clinical experience until this March, when I started volunteering in a hospital four hours a week. I applied this summer, and have already been accepted a couple of places. So, if you start now it's not too late to get the clinical experience in there on your application. Just be aware that some schools expect a lot more clinical experience than others, so it's probably not a good use of resources to apply to those that expect a lot more.

 

[Catalystik]

should I even bother with the UC/ivy applications? Or just stick to some lower-mid tier MDs and some DO's for the sake of having more quality over quantity apps this summer?

Aside from the clinical arena, your ECs are comprehensive. You might have noticed that Cali schools each have their own mission. If you feel your experiences are in accord with what a school seems to be looking for, then by all means give it a shot, if your MCAT and subscores fit within the school's range (per MSAR). Not being a Cali expert, I won't advise you on specific schools to target.

 

[LilKangaroo]

I'm not sure if I'm considered a match for any school since my cGPA is pretty much lower than most of the average accepted cGPA's in MD schools. That's why it's a little scary.

My question is now, should I even bother with the UC/ivy applications? Or just stick to some lower-mid tier MDs and some DO's for the sake of having more quality over quantity apps this summer?

I think you're well on your way to becoming an MD if you get some more US clinical experience in. You science GPA is really high, which is more important to medical schools (that's why you have a BCMP and a Non-BCMP GPA in your AMCAS). In fact, if you look at most schools, the cGPA is usually higher than the sGPA. The fact that you have the opposite situation could be a good thing!

From my experience, you would need a pretty high MCAT (>35) to be really competitive at an Ivy school. Also, I think these schools tend to look highly at research experience. Since you only have one year with no publications, that may make it harder for you.

Regardless, any school you get into is going to help you achieve your goals as long as you work hard while you're in medical school. Every physician I have talked to has said "It's not where you go, it's what you do while you're there." I would suggest that you really think about what you want out of you medical education and look for schools whose mission match your own. =]

Cut and dry: get more clinical experience, apply to a good number of schools, and apply early! I really think you'll make it in. =D