I was told by my pre-med advisor I have no shot

[GimmeaChance]

Hey,
I'm a new member and came upon this forum recently. I just graduated from a Top 20 school and was hoping to apply to med schools after taking the MCAT this spring (DO mostly).

The problem is that my stats are kind of sucky. I really did not do well on the MCAT at all with a 25S and my GPA is about a 3.1. I have only taken the 8 major pre-reqs pulling mostly B's, 1 C and 1 A. Unfortunately my circumstances were kind of rough (I will spare you the details) and so I had to hold a full-time job while completing these classes and studying for the exam.

I wanted to retake the MCAT, possibly in the fall but my advisor basically told me I need to find another careerpath because I'm not getting in.

Um, I dunno, I really want this and I dunno what else I'd do with my life. I'm kind of at a stnadstill right now.
I can def. take more classes and improve my GPA but I feel like she kind of knocked the wind out of my dream. Did anyone else overcome a similar challenge after being told they were worthless applicants?

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[Buckeye4life]

I got in with similar stats. Apply broadly and early to D.O. schools. You're definitely not a worthless applicant.

 

[ShyRem]

Agreed. If you apply to plenty of schools, write a kick-butt PS, and apply EARLY. (that one is SOOOOO important!!). Your stats definitely do NOT put you out of the running.

now, go get busy applying!!!!!

 

[njbmd]

Hey,
I'm a new member and came upon this forum recently. I just graduated from a Top 20 school and was hoping to apply to med schools after taking the MCAT this spring (DO mostly).

The problem is that my stats are kind of sucky. I really did not do well on the MCAT at all with a 25S and my GPA is about a 3.1. I have only taken the 8 major pre-reqs pulling mostly B's, 1 C and 1 A. Unfortunately my circumstances were kind of rough (I will spare you the details) and so I had to hold a full-time job while completing these classes and studying for the exam.

I wanted to retake the MCAT, possibly in the fall but my advisor basically told me I need to find another careerpath because I'm not getting in.

Um, I dunno, I really want this and I dunno what else I'd do with my life. I'm kind of at a stnadstill right now.
I can def. take more classes and improve my GPA but I feel like she kind of knocked the wind out of my dream. Did anyone else overcome a similar challenge after being told they were worthless applicants?

Retake the MCAT and really raise your score. This means start preparing and studying now. Apply broadly (DO schools especially) and don't look back.

 

[GimmeaChance]

Thanks to those that replied. I was afraid I'd get a lot of laughs.
I'm really motivated to prove this advisor wrong now

I hope I'm one of those "turned it all around" stories!

 

[Top Gun]

I had an advisor that told me the same thing, and in the end, I graduated from med school. Sure, it was a Caribbean school, but it was one of the more reputable ones (St. George's). And I had stats that were similar to yours. And I can't think of another career for me either. So premed advisors don't necessarily know everything.

 

[poly800rock]

Thanks to those that replied. I was afraid I'd get a lot of laughs.
I'm really motivated to prove this advisor wrong now

I hope I'm one of those "turned it all around" stories!

i met with my advisor the other day, he said that average MCAT's were 28 for osteopathic and 31 for allopathic. **** him is what i say. My whole process so far has been proving people wrong. Applying next month....

 

[jace's mom]

I have a friend who got into med school with a 25 on the MCAT. I really have issues with people like your advisor who make sweeping pronouncements like that. The only way to know if you can get in is to apply, right? So give it a shot and show yourself and the advisor exactly what you can do. Good luck! I'm applying this cycle as well...maybe we'll be colleagues.

 

[DrMidlife]

A premed advisor should tell you what you need to do to get in. Period. That should be enough to scare away the insincere. This isn't high school. Advising is not the same as judging.

The premed advisors at my school are burned out and their information is 10-15 years old. They do a great disservice to students who don't question what they're told.

That said, if you can think of ANYTHING ELSE you'd be happy doing, other than medicine, do the other thing. Seriously. Read the forums where med students, residents and practicing physicians post about their experiences. It's a whole lot of suckage, and it usually drowns your altruism. With your grades, you'll have a couple of years of fighting to get in BEFORE the suckage really starts. If you can possibly let it go, let it go.

But if you simply MUST be a doctor, then you need to build an awesome app around your grades. Do whatever it takes to get over 30, preferably over 35, on the MCAT. If you're still in your 20's, do something big. If I were you, I'd do Peace Corps (or any other multi-year overseas health service job), come back, use the home stipend (something like $7000) to take upper div science and prep for the MCAT, rock it, apply, and work in a clinic while watching what happens. Be creative with your path - make it YOURS.

Best of luck to you.

 

[poly800rock]

i feel like pre-med advising is like betting on the 1,2,3 trifecta box. It'll be easy to make money, but not a lot of it. I'm the 12-1 pseudo longshot, that'll sweep the belmonts

 

[powerbooki]

Your advisor steppted out of her job domain. She should advise how to improve and get in, you don't need life/career consulting from her. If you do retake MCAT, please really spend time on it, and really improve. Do not just repeat the same score. I took the test twice with huge improvements (up 9 points), and the difference has been day and night.

 

[QofQuimica]

Chalk me up as another non-trad who is completely unimpressed with advice from premed advisors. (My personal and no-so-charitable opinion of many of them is that if they actually knew so much about how to get into med school, they'd be working as physicians today instead of armchair quarterbacking the rest of us. ) Here are my suggestions for strengthening your app:

1) Do a post-bac, either formal or informal. If you're still working, probably an informal one is best for you. That just means taking classes to raise your GPA, exactly like you've already been doing. You want to ideally get your GPA up to around a 3.5 if you can, but things aren't as hopeless as you make them sound. You're already above a 3.0, which seems to be the screening limit for some med schools. The other nice thing is that if you do apply DO, you can take advantage of their grade forgiveness policy. In other words, you can retake the class where you got a C, make an A the second time, and they will replace the grade on your app instead of averaging them together into a B like they would on AMCAS. Obviously if you target the few low grades you have, retake the classes, and make As the second time, you can bring up your AOMCAS GPA into a competitive range very quickly.

2) Study for and take the MCAT again, but only after you've consistently been scoring in the high 20s and low 30s on multiple practice tests. Again, a score of 25 isn't so low that it's the kiss of death (it's actually an average score for all test-takers). But it's not exactly going to make you stand out, either, and it's lower than the average for matriculants at nearly all schools. Obviously, you want to score as high as you possibly can, but I think a reasonable goal to shoot for is around 30-32. That would put you around the average for allopathic matriculants and comfortably above average for osteopathic matriculants.

3) While you're doing your damage control, don't forget about the soft aspects of your app too. You need to have excellent ECs, PS, and LORs. You didn't say whether you've gotten any experience shadowing, working, or volunteering in a healthcare setting. But if you haven't, you should start, YESTERDAY. Keep in mind also that some DO schools require a LOR from an osteopathic physician. If you haven't already made contact with a DO to shadow and get the DO LOR, well, get moving with it.

4) Find a new advisor. Nothing personal, but your current one gives advice that stinks like last week's dirty dishes.

Best of luck to you.

 

[GimmeaChance]

4) Find a new advisor. Nothing personal, but your current one gives advice that stinks like last week's dirty dishes.

Best of luck to you.

Yes, I do have some volunteering experience and 2.5 years of clinical work with patients, some shadowing, as well as some research and a publication, so I have some icing on the cake (except the cake is kind of underbaked).
I was wondering though if taking the MCAT again in September is too soon to increase but at least 6 points? Is that possible in 3 months if I study full time?
Or would it be best to wait a year? I would prefer to actually take them when I can dedicate myself fully now that I will be leaving my job to fix my mistakes, instead of juggling 4 science classes as I would have to during the year.

 

[poly800rock]

Yes, I do have some volunteering experience and 2.5 years of clinical work with patients, some shadowing, as well as some research and a publication, so I have some icing on the cake (except the cake is kind of underbaked).
I was wondering though if taking the MCAT again in September is too soon to increase but at least 6 points? Is that possible in 3 months if I study full time?
Or would it be best to wait a year? I would prefer to actually take them when I can dedicate myself fully now that I will be leaving my job to fix my mistakes, instead of juggling 4 science classes as I would have to during the year.

do whatever works, but be aware, every point counts. don't compromise your numbers for whatever amount of money. it's not worth it in the long run

 

[chopstick1]

pre med "advisor"....yeah right!!! that's f!@ked up advice that person gave you. I went through the same type of route. non trad, non trad degree (nursing), not very good scores, avg grades, working 60-80 hrs/wk. I was told something similar. I didn't use them or their pre med service in getting into school. do the best you can on your classes and try to excel on the mcat. write a true heart felt reason why you should be in the next med school year compared to the avg student. sell your good points. getting a little experience wouldn't hurt either...that should get you an interview somewhere (the lower the score, more applications). it may cost you a little now but the price is worth it when you get just 1 acceptance letter! good luck , don't let them keep you down

 

[StrengthDoc]

A premed advisor should tell you what you need to do to get in. Period. That should be enough to scare away the insincere. This isn't high school. Advising is not the same as judging.

Well said. An advisor should function as a facilitator and assist with the process. There are already plenty of roadblocks in place.

So just prove your advisor wrong. I'm sure it won't be the first time.

 

[spicedmanna]

The problem is that my stats are kind of sucky. I really did not do well on the MCAT at all with a 25S and my GPA is about a 3.1. I have only taken the 8 major pre-reqs pulling mostly B's, 1 C and 1 A. Unfortunately my circumstances were kind of rough (I will spare you the details) and so I had to hold a full-time job while completing these classes and studying for the exam.

Your course of action is simple: raise that UGPA and retake the MCAT.

...my advisor basically told me I need to find another careerpath because I'm not getting in.

Well, we are getting what your advisor said second-hand, i.e. through you, but if that is what your advisor truly insinuated, I'd take that as face value, meaning, it's what he or she thinks. That said, I don't feel like comments of that nature are really that constructive. It's arguable at best. A good advisor will probe your interest; if you are truly interested in pursuing medicine, there are paths that can lead you there as long as you are willing to do what it takes, albeit at the cost of time, effort, and money. Don't despair. If you want to become a doctor and have the baseline ability, you pretty much always have some kind of shot at your dream; you just have to do the work necessary to make all of the data point in that direction, too. This could be a significant amount of work; it's a long, difficult road, wrought with many challenges and hurdles, but the only real way to lose, is to give up before you've given it your best and all. Do what you have to do. You need to decide if the work necessary to make you competitive is worth the time, effort, and money you will likely need to put into it. If so, then go for it and don't look back. The only person who can truly kill your dream, is you.

Good luck.

 

[MentorOfMinos]

Oooh, in Erie, eh? I grew up in Erie, PA. The summer's lovely. If you get any time off in the winter, Peek 'N Peak ski resort is awesome and it's just a quick jump over to Clymer, NY. Best of luck to you, Dr.!

 

[olecranon]

Chalk me up as another non-trad who is completely unimpressed with advice from premed advisors. (My personal and no-so-charitable opinion of many of them is that if they actually knew so much about how to get into med school, they'd be working as physicians today instead of armchair quarterbacking the rest of us. ) Here are my suggestions for strengthening your app:

my pre-med advisor has continuously given me bad advice...i don't even go by her office anymore. when i stopped listening to her bs, things started working out for me.

to the op...here's another tip for you...
many schools have summer programs or one year programs for students who may have "less that stellar stats." and are interested in going into medicine. if students do well in these programs, it looks VERY GOOD on an app and in some cases, you are guaranteed admission to that particular school.

http://www.med.unc.edu/oed/med/
http://www1.wfubmc.edu/MDProgram/Student+Services/diversity/
http://services.aamc.org/postbac/
http://www.smdep.org/progsites/start.htm
http://www.ecu.edu/ascc/SPFD06.htm

 

[Static Line]

my pre-med advisor has continuously given me bad advice...i don't even go by her office anymore. when i stopped listening to her bs, things started working out for me.

to the op...here's another tip for you...
many schools have summer programs or one year programs for students who may have "less that stellar stats." and are interested in going into medicine. if students do well in these programs, it looks VERY GOOD on an app and in some cases, you are guaranteed admission to that particular school.

http://www.med.unc.edu/oed/med/
http://www1.wfubmc.edu/MDProgram/Student+Services/diversity/
http://services.aamc.org/postbac/
http://www.smdep.org/progsites/start.htm
http://www.ecu.edu/ascc/SPFD06.htm

The advisor at my undergrad and the advisor to the student's health careers club at my undergrad both sucked. I stayed away from them and didn't talk to them unless I was forced to (when signing up for classes). And according to my undergrad newsletter I was the only one from my class who matriculated into med school that year. Bad advise is everywhere. Make all the phone calls you need to make or write all the emails you need to and find out for yourself. Don't let them steer your future.

 

[hilseb]

I had some very negative advice from an advisor too. I ended up applying to med school without a committee recommendation. However, you do need to make sure your package has some high points. I worked full time, had a divorce, and had two kids while in pre med. It took me a long time to have what it takes to get in, and I took two years off between applying training to be a midwife and getting good grades in post bacc. If you really want it and are realistic about what you can do, pull of the better grades and the better MCAT score, and screw the advisor.

 

[chemphd]

Pre-med advisors are paid to scare the pants off you. This will make sure you do whatever it takes to get in (volunteer, retake the MCAT, take classes to raise your GPA) and keeps them in a job (it only looks good if they can keep their percent accepted high). I'm sure they mean well, even if they don't go about it in the best possible way. (Mine has alternately told me I have a strong application, and don't have a shot- go figure).
Get your GPA up and do all you need to, and you'll be okay.
Good luck

 

[ana]

Hey,
I'm a new member and came upon this forum recently. I just graduated from a Top 20 school and was hoping to apply to med schools after taking the MCAT this spring (DO mostly).

The problem is that my stats are kind of sucky. I really did not do well on the MCAT at all with a 25S and my GPA is about a 3.1. I have only taken the 8 major pre-reqs pulling mostly B's, 1 C and 1 A. Unfortunately my circumstances were kind of rough (I will spare you the details) and so I had to hold a full-time job while completing these classes and studying for the exam.

I wanted to retake the MCAT, possibly in the fall but my advisor basically told me I need to find another careerpath because I'm not getting in.

Um, I dunno, I really want this and I dunno what else I'd do with my life. I'm kind of at a stnadstill right now.
I can def. take more classes and improve my GPA but I feel like she kind of knocked the wind out of my dream. Did anyone else overcome a similar challenge after being told they were worthless applicants?

This happens a lot. Often, these counselors don't even bother to tel you about postbaccs or DO schools. This was true at my undergrad institution.

A mentor of mine suggested this was because the school's adminstrators kept track of premed applicant success. This was one way the the pre-med advising program's effectiveness was measured. People who need rehabilitation tended to lower their batting average.

Just keep reading all the success stories on this web site. Someone who is not an academic superstar will get much better advice and more encouragement from the more senior members here than at their school. Good luck.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

Pre-med advisors are paid to scare the pants off you.

Pre-med advisors are paid to scare the pants off you. Wait a second!!! That wasn't in my job description.

I don't know what your motivations are to go into a career in medicine, but I think if you really wanted to do it, I'd ask why you didn't shadow an osteopathic medical professional, consider podiatry, or even look at allied health careers. Not everyone has the academic ability to assimilate scientific information quickly, but sometimes some people get that ability later on.

A lot of times I have been surprised how a student who says he/she doesn't have what it takes to get into an MD program gets shocked when they realize DO programs exist. To that end, I always wonder why students never listen to my original advice.

Yes, I do get some people who ask me how many students we get into medical school all the time. I give them an answer with the caveat that I list alumni applicants too. I believe sometimes you need that year off, so it's no shame to apply later.

That said, do I ever tell a student they never have a chance to get in? I don't like saying that if I do, but I usually say that if medical school were a career goal, one has to really shape up and show me (and convince an admissions committee).

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Hey,
I'm a new member and came upon this forum recently. I just graduated from a Top 20 school and was hoping to apply to med schools after taking the MCAT this spring (DO mostly).

The problem is that my stats are kind of sucky. I really did not do well on the MCAT at all with a 25S and my GPA is about a 3.1. I have only taken the 8 major pre-reqs pulling mostly B's, 1 C and 1 A. Unfortunately my circumstances were kind of rough (I will spare you the details) and so I had to hold a full-time job while completing these classes and studying for the exam.

I wanted to retake the MCAT, possibly in the fall but my advisor basically told me I need to find another careerpath because I'm not getting in.

Um, I dunno, I really want this and I dunno what else I'd do with my life. I'm kind of at a stnadstill right now.
I can def. take more classes and improve my GPA but I feel like she kind of knocked the wind out of my dream. Did anyone else overcome a similar challenge after being told they were worthless applicants?

I had similar stats, 25-27 MCAT with a 3.1 GPA (several sciences in the C's). I approached my pre-med adviser (albeit 10+ years after graduating with such stats) and he told me straight up: you need all A's in your 2 year post baccalaureate with maybe one B, plus you need to do well on the MCAT. Well, it's 2 years later, I did exactly all that, and thank God one school accepted me. It can be done with a lot of effort, 2 years more of your life dedicated to your dream, and hopefully somebody special to help you through it. You can do this is truly what you want and if you can prove that you can handle the academics and master the MCAT, but you have to do everything to make sure it happens. You need to step back, seriously evaluate what is necessary to achieve your goal, and then work towards it like you never have before. The competition is stiff, and if you have evaluated the medical profession (by seeing what it's like through shadowing and volunteering), decided this it is what you want, and know that you have the ability to make it through, you can make it.

 

[chemphd]

Pre-med advisors are paid to scare the pants off you. Wait a second!!! That wasn't in my job description.

I don't know what your motivations are to go into a career in medicine, but I think if you really wanted to do it, I'd ask why you didn't shadow an osteopathic medical professional, consider podiatry, or even look at allied health careers. Not everyone has the academic ability to assimilate scientific information quickly, but sometimes some people get that ability later on.

A lot of times I have been surprised how a student who says he/she doesn't have what it takes to get into an MD program gets shocked when they realize DO programs exist. To that end, I always wonder why students never listen to my original advice.

Yes, I do get some people who ask me how many students we get into medical school all the time. I give them an answer with the caveat that I list alumni applicants too. I believe sometimes you need that year off, so it's no shame to apply later.

That said, do I ever tell a student they never have a chance to get in? I don't like saying that if I do, but I usually say that if medical school were a career goal, one has to really shape up and show me (and convince an admissions committee).

I apologize- you sound like a rockin' pre-med advisor. My personal experience (and that of several of my friends) is that the advice (from the same person) is frequently inconsistent. And I think the scary part (by saying you need to work really hard to get in) actually can work wonders to get someone to start kicking some organic chemistry butt (this has helped my students in the past). It may also be the environment of the schools I've attended- most of the pre-health students are pre-MD or bust types- most students who don't get in give up on the medical field altogether. It must be frustrating when people don't listen to your advice about this. I'm happy to hear there are excellent advisors out there

 

[musashi]

MasonPrehealth, why is there a stigma attached to the those who decide NOT to use their premed office for the required letter we need. I am not impressed at all by my advisors and luckily I know how to research things on my own. I've uncovered many inaccuracies in their information. I have 4 awesome and very solid LOR's from science professors and physicians but keep getting told that I need to obtain ONE of my LORs from that office. What happens if I decide to buck the system and apply without their aid or letters?

 

[postbacker]

MasonPrehealth, why is there a stigma attached to the those who decide NOT to use their premed office for the required letter we need. I am not impressed at all by my advisors and luckily I know how to research things on my own. I've uncovered many inaccuracies in their information. I have 4 awesome and very solid LOR's from science professors and physicians but keep getting told that I need to obtain ONE of my LORs from that office. What happens if I decide to buck the system and apply without their aid or letters?

Based on everything I have read, adcoms prefer pre-med committee letters and are skeptical of applicants from schools with a pre-med committee who do not avail themselve of the services...SDN adcoms (LizzyM, others) have said this in their posts...and I have to say it makes sense to me.

 

[pufftissue]

Pre-med advisors don't seem to have any inside knowledge of the selection process themselves, and they don't sit on the selection committees of med schools. Many do not have any background in medicine. What they know is more of an over-the-years accumulation of stuff heard from prior students and anecdotes. Looking back, I appreciate them but realize that they were of limited value. The med school selection process is unpredictable by nature, which favors those who have bad stats.

 

[DrMidlife]

...why is there a stigma attached to the those who decide NOT to use their premed office for the required letter we need.

If you go to a school that has a premed committee, and you DON'T get their recommendation, that is evidence that you might be a problem child. MIGHT be. Because if you can't follow the rules, keep your nose clean, compete with the best and brightest, and jump through the hoops, then how are you going to do well, on similar objectives, when the pressure goes up a few magnitudes in med school and residency? A moticum of suck-up capability is essential.

This isn't to say that premed committees are wise, just and accurate. It just says that they are a predefined requirement, if you're at a school that has one. Getting their rec says that you can play the game. Not getting their rec is suspicious.

Lastly, when adcoms are considering multiple candidates from the same school, the committee letter is an instant ranking. Very helpful when there are thousands and thousands of applicants.

Caveat: I'm not an adcom or a premed advisor. Just an old fart.

 

[Dr JPH]

I will admit I didnt read this entire thread, but your title caught my eye.

I was a sophomore in college and my premed advisor told me "you should think about another career path..."

I am now 3 days away from graduating medical school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Meatwad]

I will admit I didnt read this entire thread, but your title caught my eye.

I was a sophomore in college and my premed advisor told me "you should think about another career path..."

I am now 3 days away from graduating medical school.

Best of luck to you.

Awesome. Congrats, doc.