I would really appreciate some advice

[Yagisama]

Hi guys, I would really appreciate any advice here.

I don't want to inundate my post with too many details, so I will try to keep it brief. If more detail is required, I would be happy to provide it.

I, like some here am a non-traditional student. But it wasn't always like that, there was a time where I was really traditional. Well, maybe that's not entirely true.

- I graduated from graduate school 11 years ago.
- I was in the pre-med program as an undergrad but didn't get a chance to finish all the requirements. I double majored in CS and EE.
- I didn't have the best gpa in undergrad but that was mostly due to the advanced EE, CS, and math classes.
- Upon graduation, I got an engineering job. And since I was dirt poor throughout college, I wanted to take a few years with the job and not be poor for a while. That few years turned out to be a lot longer than I originally anticipated.
- I took some classes to try to finish up my pre-med requirements. I took other classes such as anatomy, physiology, immunology, development biology, upper division molecular biology, cell biology, etc.
- Volunteered in a hospital for about 5 years.

Here are my issues:

- I only took one of the organic chemistry labs. I had to take organic chemistry in summer session and couldn't fit in the labs. I don't know if I can just take the entire lab series in another college or do I have to go back to my old college to take the individual labs (almost impossible for me).

- I was going to get letters of recommendation from some professors (including one that I had three classes with which I got all As in) but that was a long time ago, and the professor ended up retiring. Another professor may have passed away. I got As in most of the post grad school classes too but aside from "he got an A in my class" I don't think they can give me any good letters. And half of these professors are also gone since this is already 5+ years ago.

- MCAT expired, but that one has an obvious solution.


My questions are:

- Since it's been 5+ years since I took any of the classes, am I better off just retaking everything again in a proper Post-Bac program? I've read many times that med schools don't want ancient classes as pre-reqs. I've been trying to eat my cake and have it to, but keeping my job and taking classes in the evening or during the day by concurrent enrollment hasn't worked out very well, and in hindsight I would have been much better off just focusing on the classes for a shorter period of time.

- Long ago, when I was looking into Post-Bac programs they had a requirement that one should not have completed too many of the med school pre-requistives. Are there any post-Bac programs that don't care if you have almost all the pre-reqs completed? Or make an exception if the classes are really old?


If I do qualify for a post-bac program, then I hope it will give me a chance to get the letters of recommendation, and of course also take care of the organic chemistry lab issue.

Sorry, this turned out to be longer than I though it'd be. Anyhow I've been kicking myself for procrastinating so long. And I've been a bit nervous about asking here. I'd appreciate any insight into this.

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[hawkbit]

What is your undergraduate gpa and science gpa? (grad doesn't really matter)
Sounds like you should consider retaking the organic chemistry + lab that you need at whatever institution is closest/cheapest/most convenient, since it will likely be difficult to get just the lab. I don't think I would retake the prerequisites, unless you did badly in them (C or worse). The new MCAT will have biochem and intro psych/sociology passages. Just FYI. Plenty of people have applied with old classes. There may be some schools that discriminate against that, but there are plenty that don't as well. A good MCAT will show that your academics are still there!

 

[Zelda840]

Yeah, if you did well in the prereqs that you have, don't retake them just so they won't be old. Find a couple new upper division classes to take and make an effort to talk to the professors. Try to get A's in both to show you can still handle science coursework and also try to get letters from them both. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to retake organic to get in the lab. At least that's how it would be at my school.

 

[Aelius]

It depends on your financial situation. Are you able to take a year or two off and just focus on classes? Also, did you finish the pre-med courses you didn't finish in undergrad at a 4-year institution or a community college? Did you excel at those other classes you took?

If money wasn't an issue and if you excelled at the other classes you took, I would continue taking upper-division science courses full-time and developing some good relationships with professors so you can get good recommendation letters. If you didn't excel, then perhaps your foundation isn't that strong and you might just want to retake your premed classes either through a formal post-bacc program or a DIY post-bacc program.

That's my two cents

 

[Yagisama]

double post

 

[Yagisama]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies.

What is your undergraduate gpa and science gpa? (grad doesn't really matter)
Sounds like you should consider retaking the organic chemistry + lab that you need at whatever institution is closest/cheapest/most convenient, since it will likely be difficult to get just the lab. I don't think I would retake the prerequisites, unless you did badly in them (C or worse). The new MCAT will have biochem and intro psych/sociology passages. Just FYI. Plenty of people have applied with old classes. There may be some schools that discriminate against that, but there are plenty that don't as well. A good MCAT will show that your academics are still there!

My undergraduate gpa wasn't very good. It was around 3.1. My science gpa was a bit better at about 3.5. The biggest negative impact to my science gpa was from the more advanced math classes (complex analysis and the classes above diff eq). I had B+/A-/A in most of the pre-reqs and organic chemistry was part of the B+ group since I had to take it during summer session.

I took 20-25 units per quarter since I had three majors (finished only two of them). In hindsight that may have been foolish and I was very stubborn, but that's all water under the bridge at this point.

I have also taken biochemistry and in recent years took development psychology, medical sociology, and related classes. I also took some medial anthropology classes back in undergraduate college. I'm hoping they will beneficial with the new MCAT.

Yeah, if you did well in the prereqs that you have, don't retake them just so they won't be old. Find a couple new upper division classes to take and make an effort to talk to the professors. Try to get A's in both to show you can still handle science coursework and also try to get letters from them both. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to retake organic to get in the lab. At least that's how it would be at my school.

I was going toward this same exact path a few years ago. I took some upper division classes and got A's in a couple of them and a B+ in another. Interestingly enough, I was almost at the top of the class for the B+ class (upper division molecular bio). I talked with the professor about writing a letter of recommendation and he agreed , but soon after I got a temporary work assignment in another state and ended up postponing my application. It's been more than 2 years now and I'm worried if he can really remember me by the time I get my crap in order so I can apply.

It depends on your financial situation. Are you able to take a year or two off and just focus on classes? Also, did you finish the pre-med courses you didn't finish in undergrad at a 4-year institution or a community college? Did you excel at those other classes you took?
If money wasn't an issue and if you excelled at the other classes you took, I would continue taking upper-division science courses full-time and developing some good relationships with professors so you can get good recommendation letters. If you didn't excel, then perhaps your foundation isn't that strong and you might just want to retake your premed classes either through a formal post-bacc program or a DIY post-bacc program.
That's my two cents

The classes that I didn't finish in undergrad, I took in a 4-year institution and got B+/A-/A grades on them. Some of them were in the middle of the day as part of concurrent enrollment so I had to start my work at 5am to make them.

I have made a lot of foolish choices, but the silver lining is that I am in a good enough financial situation where I can take a year or two off and focus on the classes.

I have been trying to research a certificate program that gives a chance to access upper division classes (rather than me try to get into a bunch of individual classes as part of open concurrent/open university/etc. Ideally it'd be very challenging and reputable program with no stringent requirements to enroll (no letters of recommendation required for example, since that's one of the things that I'd actually want to get out of the program).

Would a graduate certificate be a good idea? The issue with the undergrad ones is that they have a lot of lower division classes that I have already taken. I guess I can just take what I need and not finish the program.

I'd be willing to move anywhere in the US for a year or so and just focus on the program. I found a program that fits what I'm looking for at Drexel ( Medical Science Preparatory graduate level certificate program). If anyone knows of any other such programs, please let me know.

Thank you again for all the replies!

 

[hawkbit]

It sounds like you have taken quite a few classes so moving your gpa is going to be a slow process, at least it's above a 3.0 which is an auto cutoff at many schools. The higher science gpa is helpful. Let me ask you this, what is your goal in getting into medical school? Why do you want to be a doctor? Would you be satisfied in a primary care field?
I'm asking because it would be a lot easier to get into a DO school vs MD, although MD is possible albeit less likely. Try to pinpoint your interests in medicine and find schools with similar missions, be the type of candidate they are looking for. A good MCAT along with strong ECs will be necessary to get your application looked at. What are your ECs? You'll need strong humanitarian/volunteering and clinical experiences in order to have a shot.

Maybe ask some questions in the postbac forum about further schooling opportunites.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/postbaccalaureate-programs.71/

 

[Yagisama]

It sounds like you have taken quite a few classes so moving your gpa is going to be a slow process, at least it's above a 3.0 which is an auto cutoff at many schools. The higher science gpa is helpful. Let me ask you this, what is your goal in getting into medical school? Why do you want to be a doctor? Would you be satisfied in a primary care field?
I'm asking because it would be a lot easier to get into a DO school vs MD, although MD is possible albeit less likely. Try to pinpoint your interests in medicine and find schools with similar missions, be the type of candidate they are looking for. A good MCAT along with strong ECs will be necessary to get your application looked at. What are your ECs? You'll need strong humanitarian/volunteering and clinical experiences in order to have a shot.

Maybe ask some questions in the postbac forum about further schooling opportunites.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/postbaccalaureate-programs.71/

Thanks again for your reply! In the past I have spent about 5 years volunteering in a children's hospital helping out in the PICU/NICU and patient rooms. I am currently volunteering in another hospital that gives me direct contact with older patients.

I am interested in the primary care field and would be completely fine with a DO school. I don't really have much ECs besides the volunteering. There are opportunities to volunteer for humanitarian kind of positions through my work so I will try those. I'm not sure what other ECs would be relevant.

And a big thanks for the SMP links! I will ask further questions there after I read up on some of the threads.

 

[hawkbit]

I think all you really need is some more classes to nudge your GPA up some more. You have good clinical and volunteering experience, maybe try to shadow a few doctors for some good physician contact/experience, and maybe a letter, especially the DO schools like to see a letter from a DO. How much could you get your GPA up by next cycle? Certainly by the one after. With a good mcat and applying broadly I'd say you would have a good shot.

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[Hailstorm]

If you're going to go with a DO school, then find a school that will let you take courses worth = or > credits than the ones on your transcript with poor grades under the retake guidelines. You could be extremely competitive for DO school applying next year. MD is a lot more of a crapshoot, and might require a ~50k SMP + gap year.