IA first-year

[nssa1315]

Hi everyone. I just finished my first year as a Bio major and was looking for advice. In my second semester, I had a medical issue during finals week (long story short, I’m diabetic and had a major hypoglycemic episode that resulted in unconciousness). I’ve had a reasonably good GPA but I messed up in my Bio lab class.

Basically I did bad on my first lab report and so I wanted to do better on the second one. I went to office hours three times and then, STUPIDLY, i asked my friend who had taken the class before me to read her lab report. I didn’t intentionally plagiarize from her, but in my haste to submit the report and move on, I must have picked up parts of the report and put it into mine. Turnitin caught similarities, and I ended up going to the honor council. I admitted what I did with no resistance because, plain and simple, it is plagiarism, and no medical excuse justifies that. It ended up as a 0 on the report, nothing on my transcript, only internal records in case I ever do anything again (I NEVER will). I ended the class w/ a B and still have a 3.8 sGPA. Of course, I absolutely have to tell medical schools when I apply. How far have I set myself back? How screwed am I? How did I let my medical circumstances screw me over so badly? What do I do? I accept all criticism and know that my actions are honestly egregious. I have been beating myself up for the past 3 weeks, but there’s really nothing I can do but look forward. There is absolutely nothing else that I want to do with my life besides becoming a physician. My diabetes diagnosis and difficulties have been my inspiration to pursue a medical career and help those less fortunate than me. I promise you I have never done anything like this before and will never do anything like this again. Do you guys still think I can apply to medical school w/o taking a gap? I hope to join my school's honor committee at some point to help students like myself understand the repercussions and act as an advocate.
W/o this I'm a reasonable applicant, solid GPA so far and decent ECs (volunteering, clinical job, lots of shadowing, advocacy + leadership roles, etc). I just want someone to either reassure me that my medical career isn't over or tell me how I can come back from this. Thank you all so so much.

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[Goro]

Own this and Don't screw up again and you'll be fine. We were all young and stupid once

 

[nssa1315]

Own this and Don't screw up again and you'll be fine. We were all young and stupid once

Thank you so so much. I wanted to apply to an EA program b/c my school offers them. I fulfill all of the reqs for it (high SAT score + high GPA). I purposely pursued a lot of clinical work early in my academic career + got secured LORs bc i thought I had a chance. Would u recommend I apply?

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Thank you so so much. I wanted to apply to an EA program b/c my school offers them. I fulfill all of the reqs for it (high SAT score + high GPA). I purposely pursued a lot of clinical work early in my academic career + got secured LORs bc i thought I had a chance. Would u recommend I apply?

I wouldn't apply EA with a recent integrity transgression on your record. Give yourself a few years of distance.

 

[nssa1315]

I wouldn't apply EA with a recent integrity transgression on your record. Give yourself a few years of distance.

Even if it would allow me to bypass the MCAT? I totally understand giving distance bc it is academic integrity and is extremely serious. I mean the worst they could say is no, right? I still have a year to decide but thank you so much for the advice.

 

[Goro]

Even if it would allow me to bypass the MCAT? I totally understand giving distance bc it is academic integrity and is extremely serious. I mean the worst they could say is no, right? I still have a year to decide but thank you so much for the advice.

EA is not my area of expertise, alas.

Paging @Mr.Smile12 !!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

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Here's a question for you. Would the program require a conduct dean's letter? When is it needed: when you get accepted into the EA program? Perhaps before you transition? Did your advisor have to mention it in a recommendation letter?

I ask because chances are your IA will not be expunged while you are a student. If you decide to apply, you have to truthfully answer you got an IA on any application, including EA. And yes, what you allegedly described could disqualify your EA application.

You will have to ask the EA admissions representative if having an IA automatically excludes you. The ones I ran considered any IA disqualifying. They want mature students who embody professionalism and will not reward any cheating, no matter how you justify it. They would rather you try again as a regular applicant, as that is always the default pathway.

No school wants to respond to any news they admitted (into their EA track) someone who plagiarized an assignment. They will also drop any undergraduate from the EA track later found to have committed plagiarism. (But check the programs... not every school acts that swiftly.)

 

[nssa1315]

My school only requires a prehealth committee letter. I asked the dean if the case would be mentioned in the letter, and she was really vague and unclear about if it would be mentioned. It would be needed before I get accepted into the EA program as a part of my application, along with the other letters of recommendation. Would you recommend I ask my prehealth advisors if it would automatically exclude me? Or should I not bring it up to them and ask someone external? It doesn't really say anything about conduct cases in the description of the program online. It just says if the student is admitted to the program, they must remain in good academic standing. Thank you so much.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My school only requires a prehealth committee letter. I asked the dean if the case would be mentioned in the letter, and she was really vague and unclear about if it would be mentioned. It would be needed before I get accepted into the EA program as a part of my application, along with the other letters of recommendation. Would you recommend I ask my prehealth advisors if it would automatically exclude me? Or should I not bring it up to them and ask someone external? It doesn't really say anything about conduct cases in the description of the program online. It just says if the student is admitted to the program, they must remain in good academic standing. Thank you so much.

You already got a wishy-washy answer, which should definitely bother you (because the prehealth advisors at your institution clearly don't know). An IA like yours is a cut-and-dry situation, and while they can try to put a positive spin on it, they cannot change the facts of your IA. The conventions of their committee letter bind them to disclose whether something is in your conduct file; if they don't, your medical school has the right to ask for it should they admit you to their track and you continue as a student in that track. If they don't ask until right before you matriculate, and the IA is a "surprise," you'll get a surprise meeting to say your spot in medical school might be withdrawn because you were not forthcoming from the beginning.

Remaining in good academic standing in such processes means no IA's and no probations/suspensions in TLDR terms.

 

[nssa1315]

You already got a wishy-washy answer, which should definitely bother you (because the prehealth advisors at your institution clearly don't know). An IA like yours is a cut-and-dry situation, and while they can try to put a positive spin on it, they cannot change the facts of your IA. The conventions of their committee letter bind them to disclose whether something is in your conduct file; if they don't, your medical school has the right to ask for it should they admit you to their track and you continue as a student in that track. If they don't ask until right before you matriculate, and the IA is a "surprise," you'll get a surprise meeting to say your spot in medical school might be withdrawn because you were not forthcoming from the beginning.

Remaining in good academic standing in such processes means no IA's and no probations/suspensions in TLDR terms.

I would, of course, disclose the information before sending in my application via AMCAS. I would not want to have to disclose it after admission to the program, and I would not rely on their committee letter to disclose this information to the medical school. I went through the forms you must fill out before requesting a committee letter and nowhere mentions any academic dishonesty/conduct cases, so I assume it would not be mentioned in my committee letter since it is not mentioned in any of the preliminary forms. I would have to find a place to incorporate it in my application, I am assuming. I am on summer break right now so nobody will respond to my emails, but I am definitely concerned and just want to know if I should consider applying. I don't want to dox myself but I have a lot of ties to the institution and a high SAT score. I felt like I was in the right place to apply, but if my application will just be thrown out, maybe I should just take the MCAT, devote myself to my volunteering, and apply regularly & hope for the best.

 

[nssa1315]

You already got a wishy-washy answer, which should definitely bother you (because the prehealth advisors at your institution clearly don't know). An IA like yours is a cut-and-dry situation, and while they can try to put a positive spin on it, they cannot change the facts of your IA. The conventions of their committee letter bind them to disclose whether something is in your conduct file; if they don't, your medical school has the right to ask for it should they admit you to their track and you continue as a student in that track. If they don't ask until right before you matriculate, and the IA is a "surprise," you'll get a surprise meeting to say your spot in medical school might be withdrawn because you were not forthcoming from the beginning.

Remaining in good academic standing in such processes means no IA's and no probations/suspensions in TLDR terms.

I've been thinking about this for the past hour and I think what I'm going to do is meet with my prehealth advisor in the beginning of this coming year. Discuss with her my extracurriculars, grades, test scores etc make a good impression, tell her about my plagiarism charge in the most honest, forthcoming way possible. I in no way, shape or form want to seem like I'm hiding this. Medicine is a career about integrity, and I have already compromised it once and am in no way trying to compromise it again. If I get into medical school, I want it to be with complete honesty. I will ask my prehealth advisor if she thinks, with my stats + the charge, I am in a position to apply. If she says yes, I'll go through with the application, be prepared for a rejection, study for the MCAT, bust my entire ass and try again. If she says no, I'll do the same without the application. Its a major blow b/c a main reason I chose this undergrad was b/c of the program, but if my idiocy has caused this, I really just need to move forward w/ integrity and hopefulness. Do you guys think I can still get into any institution with a medium/high MCAT score? I'm prepared to do the work. I just want to make sure I haven't shot myself in the foot w/ this plagiarism thing.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I've been thinking about this for the past hour and I think what I'm going to do is meet with my prehealth advisor in the beginning of this coming year. Discuss with her my extracurriculars, grades, test scores etc make a good impression, tell her about my plagiarism charge in the most honest, forthcoming way possible. I in no way, shape or form want to seem like I'm hiding this. Medicine is a career about integrity, and I have already compromised it once and am in no way trying to compromise it again. If I get into medical school, I want it to be with complete honesty. I will ask my prehealth advisor if she thinks, with my stats + the charge, I am in a position to apply. If she says yes, I'll go through with the application, be prepared for a rejection, study for the MCAT, bust my entire ass and try again. If she says no, I'll do the same without the application. Its a major blow b/c a main reason I chose this undergrad was b/c of the program, but if my idiocy has caused this, I really just need to move forward w/ integrity and hopefulness. Do you guys think I can still get into any institution with a medium/high MCAT score? I'm prepared to do the work. I just want to make sure I haven't shot myself in the foot w/ this plagiarism thing.

I'd also ask the admissions team in case your advisor doesn't know the answer. You should do that anyway for any early guaranteed track. You get no guarantees that you would get accepted EA or ED, even with a clean conduct record.

 

[candbgirl]

I've been thinking about this for the past hour and I think what I'm going to do is meet with my prehealth advisor in the beginning of this coming year. Discuss with her my extracurriculars, grades, test scores etc make a good impression, tell her about my plagiarism charge in the most honest, forthcoming way possible. I in no way, shape or form want to seem like I'm hiding this. Medicine is a career about integrity, and I have already compromised it once and am in no way trying to compromise it again. If I get into medical school, I want it to be with complete honesty. I will ask my prehealth advisor if she thinks, with my stats + the charge, I am in a position to apply. If she says yes, I'll go through with the application, be prepared for a rejection, study for the MCAT, bust my entire ass and try again. If she says no, I'll do the same without the application. Its a major blow b/c a main reason I chose this undergrad was b/c of the program, but if my idiocy has caused this, I really just need to move forward w/ integrity and hopefulness. Do you guys think I can still get into any institution with a medium/high MCAT score? I'm prepared to do the work. I just want to make sure I haven't shot myself in the foot w/ this plagiarism thing.

You were told in the very first response that we all make mistakes when we are young. You were also told to put time between plagerism and applying. You really have to do this. Because the plagerism will be on your application whenever you apply, you have to be able to prove/show that you have learned and grown since then. All of your statements that you won’t do it again etc, etc, etc. have to be backed up by your actions. I get the impression that this issue is brand new. You are most likely in some sort of educational shock. You need to take time and think the situation through. How and why did this happen. How is the diabetic incident cause this issue? How are you going to grow as a student from this situation?
When would you have to apply for the EA program? I assume it’s early in the next school year. At that point you’ll only have a few months,even weeks, between the incident and the application.
And what besides diabetes makes you want to be a doctor? Do you have clinical experience? Any shadowing? How about nonclinical volunteering?
EA programs are okay for the right student. Just make sure you are that student.

 

[nssa1315]

You were told in the very first response that we all make mistakes when we are young. You were also told to put time between plagerism and applying. You really have to do this. Because the plagerism will be on your application whenever you apply, you have to be able to prove/show that you have learned and grown since then. All of your statements that you won’t do it again etc, etc, etc. have to be backed up by your actions. I get the impression that this issue is brand new. You are most likely in some sort of educational shock. You need to take time and think the situation through. How and why did this happen. How is the diabetic incident cause this issue? How are you going to grow as a student from this situation?
When would you have to apply for the EA program? I assume it’s early in the next school year. At that point you’ll only have a few months,even weeks, between the incident and the application.
And what besides diabetes makes you want to be a doctor? Do you have clinical experience? Any shadowing? How about nonclinical volunteering?
EA programs are okay for the right student. Just make sure you are that student.

Thank you so much for your reply. It is very recent which is why I'm so frantic lol. I would apply by June of my sophomore year, so approx 1 year since the incident since it occurred in June of this year. Regarding clinical experience, I have worked as a PCT all of my freshman year. I forget the exact # of hours, but probably ~100. I just got my phlebotomy cert and have acquired a job for the weekends at school. I have shadowed a cardiothoracic surgeon, an anesthesiologist, and my own endocrinologist. I have gotten letters of rec from these individuals. I am also completing research with a professor at my college w/in Endo (will present poster next year), and am completing neuro research at the medical school to which I want to apply EA. I have one publication from HS. As for nonclinical volunteering, I am leading a literacy program at a local elementary school w/ my close friend and am very well acquainted with the community service chair at my college. I am to get a LOR from him as well, since I have completed various service programs at my school. Couple of leadership positions on various clubs (1 medical, 2 nonmedical). Thank you all so so much its been very reassuring to know my life isn't over b/c so many ppl on here say to give up

 

[Mr.Smile12]

... Thank you all so so much its been very reassuring to know my life isn't over b/c so many ppl on here say to give up

Okay, so now you are completely misinterpreting advice given to you by experts and only filtering in what your want to hear. It's clear you are beyond the point any additional advice will help you, and I ask that we close and lock this discourse.

 

[nssa1315]

I'd also ask the admissions team in case your advisor doesn't know the answer. You should do that anyway for any early guaranteed track. You get no guarantees that you would get accepted EA or ED, even with a clean conduct record.

I will ask them for sure. I spoke with a member of the decision board at the medical school since I am doing research there this summer. She said the program is really competitive and they accept a very small percentage that varies each year. I've met a few ppl who were accepted via that pathway, and it seems like they are looking for a certain niche that I'm not sure I fill. I was counting on a rejection even w out a conduct issue, so it might be much harder now. If im allowed to apply, I'll send it in and try and show growth by demonstrating a lot of integrity next year and upping volunteering hours.

 

[nssa1315]

Okay, so now you are completely misinterpreting advice given to you by experts and only filtering in what your want to hear. It's clear you are beyond the point any additional advice will help you, and I ask that we close and lock this discourse.

I apologize if it came off this way. The other user asked about my clinical/nonclinical experience, so I just wanted to share that. I appreciate your advice and the advice of others and will take them into great consideration when making the decision to submit my application or not. I read other posts regarding the academic integrity violations and a lot of the comments are really discouraging, so I decided to post my own to see what reception I would get, and I am really pleased with the responses from all of the users. They are genuinely so helpful and I apologize if it seemed like I was ungrateful in any way. I'll ask for clarifications from the admissions committee at my school, and continue to consult this conversation when questions arise. Thank you.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I apologize if it came off this way. The other user asked about my clinical/nonclinical experience, so I just wanted to share that. I appreciate your advice and the advice of others and will take them into great consideration when making the decision to submit my application or not. I read other posts regarding the academic integrity violations and a lot of the comments are really discouraging, so I decided to post my own to see what reception I would get, and I am really pleased with the responses from all of the users. They are genuinely so helpful and I apologize if it seemed like I was ungrateful in any way. I'll ask for clarifications from the admissions committee at my school, and continue to consult this conversation when questions arise. Thank you.

Thanks for that clarification. Just making sure you know, we want you to succeed, given the realities of the process. You must let go of the things that bother you that you cannot control.

 

[nssa1315]

Thanks for that clarification. Just making sure you know, we want you to succeed, given the realities of the process. You must let go of the things that bother you that you cannot control.

Thank you all so much. It’s definitely been a rough few weeks but you guys def reassured me that with hard work for the next 3 years, I’ll be able to get in somewhere. My family has been saying the same thing and so I’ve been preparing myself to work doubly as hard for the next couple years. Again thank you all!!! I truly appreciate all of the responses and support <3

 

[candbgirl]

Thank you all so much. It’s definitely been a rough few weeks but you guys def reassured me that with hard work for the next 3 years, I’ll be able to get in somewhere. My family has been saying the same thing and so I’ve been preparing myself to work doubly as hard for the next couple years. Again thank you all!!! I truly appreciate all of the responses and support <3

En’t Nobody actually said that. Getting into med school is difficult and only around 40% of all applicants are accepted anywhere, and of that 40% half are accepted at one school. So keep up with building your application. Make ADCOMS want to interview you.
Good luck.

You still haven’t answered my question of how a medical incident drew you to med school. And you don’t have to but your application should weave a story of your journey.

 

[nssa1315]

En’t Nobody actually said that. Getting into med school is difficult and only around 40% of all applicants are accepted anywhere, and of that 40% half are accepted at one school. So keep up with building your application. Make ADCOMS want to interview you.
Good luck.

You still haven’t answered my question of how a medical incident drew you to med school. And you don’t have to but your application should weave a story of your journey.

Yes, I fully acknowledge that and plan to apply to a very broad variety of schools. I also have no aversion to taking one gap year to pursue research, a master's, etc. I have really enjoyed meeting the gap year students I do research with, so I am not completely opposed to it if I have to pursue it if I don't get accepted the first time. I hope to continue building my app in the next few years and make myself a candidate adcoms want to interview, despite my IA, which I have learned a lot from. I decided to speak to my counselors to discuss what accommodations would look like, and if a medical episode like the one mentioned were to happen again, I would know what to do and how to bring it up to my professors. I forgot to mention that my diabetes thing happened the weekend before my first final exam which was on Monday, and my report was due that Monday too, so stuff really piled up and I was negligent.

As for building my story, I still have to sort of work on the logistics of what my personal statement is going to look like, but long story short is I've kind of always been surrounded by medicine so growing up I wasn't too sure I wanted to do it bc of how difficult it looked for my family, but when I was diagnosed things sort of changed for me when I saw how well my physician + her team were able to make me feel better despite the fact that I was undergoing a change that would effect the rest of my life. I was pretty young then, and by shadowing a number of doctors (including the physician mentioned above), I gained a deeper understanding of the critical role of healing and the unifying nature of a career in medicine. I find the composition of medical teams to be so incredibly effective and hope to contribute to one as a physician one day. Overall, my diagnosis was a catalyst into understanding medicine, starting from the patient side of things. I obviously have to fine-tune this sort of overarching idea, incorporating more than just my physician shadowing, but it's kind of the start of my story/one reason why I want to pursue medicine.

Again, thank you all so much. The advice has been invaluable. :,)