IA question

[joesmith1980]

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95% of students in a large class are accused of taking code from the internet. Matter was settled by informal agreement with faculty for students who voluntarily confessed. School's website states that the offense is not reportable to med schools. Pre-health advisor says that it is the student's decision to report or not because the definition of IA is very ambiguous. No record of action. Students punished by lower grade. Report?

Pre-health dean said it is the student's decision because definitions vary. They recommend reporting in most cases even for minor alcohol violations but the decision is up to the student because of ambiguity. The school's website considers this type of action to be between a professor and student. No conduct board was involved. Unique situation because over 120 students were in this position. Student wants to do the right thing but does not want to destroy their chances if not necessary.

 

[MonkeyArrow]

See relevant AMCAS instructions:

“You must answer "Yes" to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer "Yes" even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.

If you are not certain whether or not you have been the subject of an institutional action, contact the registrar, student affairs officer, or other appropriate party at the institution for confirmation of your record.”

Your situation is interesting. You did cheat and admitted to it, and were punished with a formal grade. However, it appears as though there is no formal record of any action being taken against you, except a lowered grade, which I’m not sure meets the threshold written above.

Contact your registrar or pre-med advisor. I’ll defer to the adcoms on here for a definitive response.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

You'll be better off reporting it rather than getting caught

 

[Goro]

95% of students in a large class are accused of taking code from the internet. Matter was settled by informal agreement with faculty for students who voluntarily confessed. School's website states that the offense is not reportable to med schools. Pre-health advisor says that it is the student's decision to report or not because the definition of IA is very ambiguous. No record of action. Students punished by lower grade. Report?

Pre-health dean said it is the student's decision because definitions vary. They recommend reporting in most cases even for minor alcohol violations but the decision is up to the student because of ambiguity. The school's website considers this type of action to be between a professor and student. No conduct board was involved. Unique situation because over 120 students were in this position. Student wants to do the right thing but does not want to destroy their chances if not necessary.

Check the IA box, own this, and lead an exemplary life from now on, and especially try to engage in positions of responsibility. There are IAs, and then there are IAs, and so this might be seen by some as a lesser transgression.

But always have a Plan B.

 

[HomeSkool]

WTF is going on that 95% of students in a big class were caught cheating?!

 

[joesmith1980]

The course was in a subject where there is a very fine line between inspiration and plagiarism. This had been happening in the course for several years but the faculty member in question did not receive tenure so the issue was raised by them many months later. The 95% number is not an exaggeration. The school does not consider it an IA according to information on several websites. The deans are noncommittal.

Thank you for the replies. The student believes that as long as they have records of the publicly available information and the correspondence with the deans they can proceed with a clean conscience because other students in a similar situation have not checked the box after consultation with SDN.

 

[HomeSkool]

The course was in a subject where there is a very fine line between inspiration and plagiarism. This had been happening in the course for several years

Sounds like the school needs to get its act together and define that line a bit better...

 

[Robin-jay]

"If you are not certain whether or not you have been the subject of an institutional action, contact the registrar, student affairs officer, or other appropriate party at the institution for confirmation of your record.”

OP, contact the dean of student affairs and if the dean of student affairs says its an IA, its an IA. if the dean of student affairs says that its not an IA, then its not an IA and you do NOT need to report it.

 

[joesmith1980]

Agree. The students definitely made a mistake but it was so prevalent that the line was blurred. If the dean tells the students that it is their choice can they not choose to not report it since it is not considered an IA by the school?

The problem is that the dean is giving students the freedom to make their own calls since the policy is vague. Pre-health websites explicitly state that it is not considered reportable.

Wouldn't a screenshot of the information on the website be sufficient? It is very clear.

 

[Robin-jay]

Agree. The students definitely made a mistake but it was so prevalent that the line was blurred. If the dean tells the students that it is their choice can they not choose to not report it since it is not considered an IA by the school?

The problem is that the dean is giving students the freedom to make their own calls since the policy is vague. Pre-health websites explicitly state that it is not considered reportable.

Wouldn't a screenshot of the information on the website be sufficient? It is very clear.

The dean of student affairs does always tell people its their choice to report an IA. However, if you don't know if you have an IA, the dean of student affairs should be able to tell you. If he says "yes", then report it. If he says "no", then don't report it.

 

[joesmith1980]

All they say is that there are no records of this incident. They are not willing to comment on whether an informal agreement is considered an IA. The information on the school's website suggests that it is not. The student conduct board was not involved. It may be necessary to speak to the dean again. Thank you.

 

[Robin-jay]

All they say is that there are no records of this incident. They are not willing to comment on whether an informal agreement is considered an IA. The information on the school's website suggests that it is not. The student conduct board was not involved. It may be necessary to speak to the dean again. Thank you.

If the information on the school's website says its not, then it might not.

But yes, definitely get in touch with the dean and ask him something along the lines of:

"if a professional school calls to ask if I have any institutional actions on my record, what would you say"?

And if they will say to the ADCOMs calling: "this person cheated", then its probably an IA. However, if they would say "no, this person has no violations on record", then its probably not an "IA".

Your school needs to tell you if this is an IA. Saying its your choice to disclose IA's is fine, but its your universities responsibility to classify it correctly.

 

[joesmith1980]

The understanding is that they would say "no, this person has no violations on their record". That much is very clear. They appear to have abdicated that responsibility but it is certain that they would say "the record is clean".

 

[de Ribas]

95% of students in a large class are accused of taking code from the internet.

what code?

 

[joesmith1980]

what code?

Parts of algorithms. It is a complicated issue because professional software developers borrow heavily from internet resources. The students still shouldn't have done it but it was so prevalent that everybody just went along with it.

 

[Robin-jay]

The understanding is that they would say "no, this person has no violations on their record". That much is very clear. They appear to have abdicated that responsibility but it is certain that they would say "the record is clean".

It doesn't sound like an institutional action to me then.

 

[joesmith1980]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. The university in question also does not record minor offenses like alcohol and noise violations but the dean claimed that some applicants voluntarily disclosed them. Unfortunately, even a seemingly trivial incident of this nature can derail an application in ways that a noise violation cannot. It is worth noting that the students are remorseful. They want to do the right thing which is why they are making such an effort to arrive at the appropriate response. It would be easy for them to just forget about it since there is no way that a medical school would ever find out but it is a question of character.

 

[Robin-jay]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. The university in question also does not record minor offenses like alcohol and noise violations but the dean claimed that some applicants voluntarily disclosed them. Unfortunately, even a seemingly trivial incident of this nature can derail an application in ways that a noise violation cannot. It is worth noting that the students are remorseful. They want to do the right thing which is why they are making such an effort to arrive at the appropriate response. It would be easy for them to just forget about it since there is no way that a medical school would ever find out but it is a question of character.

Your university seems like a mess, but alas, if its not recorded (therefore never even expunged), then your university seems to make it clear that it was not an institutional action.

"informal agreements" remind me of what I would do with my students. If I gave someone a "zero" on a assignment for academic dishonesty, its not an institutional action if I don't have the dean or anyone record it.

It just means I was very disappointed in you and gave you a stern taking to.

 

[joesmith1980]

Yes, it is frustrating. They claim to have an internal record and an external one. Minor offenses like alcohol violations and informal agreements go on the internal record but they are not visible to anybody at the university and are not disclosed externally unless there is a subsequent violation.

 

[Robin-jay]

Yes, it is frustrating. They claim to have an internal record and an external one. Minor offenses like alcohol violations and informal agreements go on the internal record but they are not visible to anybody at the university and are not disclosed externally unless there is a subsequent violation.

That's really weird. Then maybe it could be. But if its classified as an "informal Agreement" only, then I doubt its an institutional action.

But honestly, your university is a little too confusing for my taste so you may need to ask them directly "is this an institutional action", and almost demand a "yes" or "no" answer...

 

[joesmith1980]

Yes, the record that anybody on the outside has access to is perfectly clean. There is a student conduct department. It maintains records. Those records are clean.

That is a good idea.

 

[joesmith1980]

No disciplinary record is created as the process was not handled by the office of student conduct. Therefore the academic record and the disciplinary record would both be clean. Did some additional research. Thank you all.

Additionally, even for offenses handled by the office, the least severe type of sanction is not recorded.

 

[Robin-jay]

No disciplinary record is created as the process was not handled by the office of student conduct. Therefore the academic record and the disciplinary record would both be clean. Did some additional research. Thank you all.

I vote not I.A.

Be more careful in the future OP.

 

[joesmith1980]

Would rather beat myself to a pulp with a baseball bat than even contemplate making a mistake like this again. Will probably request a copy of the records for myself to be absolutely sure.

For anybody who is reading this. If you are in a similar situation, be sure to do some research. The university's website states that this type of agreement is between a faculty member and a student. The conduct board only becomes involved if an agreement cannot be reached.