IA - What to do

[premed1234543212]

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[Hollow Knight]

Try not to be a complete wreck. If I was reading your app, I wouldn't even consider something like this, unless you were obviously being squirrely about it. Don't lie, and make sure to take full responsibility.

But I'm n=1, other, more experienced members of this forum is who you should really be listening to.

Also, this story is pretty specific, so you might want to consider making a new SDN after this one. You'd be pretty easy to ID with this post.

 

[GoSpursGo]

You're fortunate this happened in freshman year, makes it easier to look past and consider a mistake of being "young and stupid." In this particular case you even have a story that, while again not being an excuse, makes you sound sympathetic--ie this isn't some nefarious plot where you cheated on an exam, but rather your computer broke and you panicked and made a bad decision. I think all of us can relate to making suboptimal choices at that stage in our lives.

If you had asked a year or two ago, I would have suggested doing something concrete about showing remorse and ethical behavior like serving on your school's honor council or something, but at this point there is likely nothing to be done. I think you can apply on your planned timeline, and all I would say is make sure you include all your state schools as well as maybe 5 more OOS schools that you otherwise would not have considered. I don't think this necessarily takes you out of the running for a T20, but it's hard to guess how any given reviewer will view this IA, so I would cast a slightly larger net than you might have otherwise.

 

[candbgirl]

-Did you forget to include your nonclinical volunteering (I might have missed it)?
-Applying to a med school is a crap shoot at best and T20 are on a different level. Don’t set your sites specifically on T20. Set your sites on getting into a med school, any med school. It’s fine to apply to T20 but cast a wide net.

 

[LizzyM]

Describe what happened, including being awarded an A for the course. That goes a long way for me in determining that the faculty didn't see this as a big deal (in which case they'd have flunked you).

 

[Goro]

Hi,

As long as you own the transgression, you'll be OK. We were all young and stupid once.

No nonclinical volunteering? That will be lethal.

 

[premed1234543212]

Try not to be a complete wreck. If I was reading your app, I wouldn't even consider something like this, unless you were obviously being squirrely about it. Don't lie, and make sure to take full responsibility.

But I'm n=1, other, more experienced members of this forum is who you should really be listening to.

Also, this story is pretty specific, so you might want to consider making a new SDN after this one. You'd be pretty easy to ID with this post.

Thank you, will edit the post at end of day today. Is there a way to remove it completely, from replies as well?

You're fortunate this happened in freshman year, makes it easier to look past and consider a mistake of being "young and stupid." In this particular case you even have a story that, while again not being an excuse, makes you sound sympathetic--ie this isn't some nefarious plot where you cheated on an exam, but rather your computer broke and you panicked and made a bad decision. I think all of us can relate to making suboptimal choices at that stage in our lives.

If you had asked a year or two ago, I would have suggested doing something concrete about showing remorse and ethical behavior like serving on your school's honor council or something, but at this point there is likely nothing to be done. I think you can apply on your planned timeline, and all I would say is make sure you include all your state schools as well as maybe 5 more OOS schools that you otherwise would not have considered. I don't think this necessarily takes you out of the running for a T20, but it's hard to guess how any given reviewer will view this IA, so I would cast a slightly larger net than you might have otherwise.

Would talking about experience in residential life (RA) and TA help to demonstrate remorse/integrity, I have shared my story to residents so they don't make similar mistakes. I figured that I'd distance myself while taking ownership, only mention the violation in the paragraph allotted.

As long as you own the transgression, you'll be OK. We were all young and stupid once.

No nonclinical volunteering? That will be lethal.

Sorry, forgot to include in post, approximately 350 hours in nonclinical volunteering.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Would talking about experience in residential life (RA) and TA help to demonstrate remorse/integrity, I have shared my story to residents so they don't make similar mistakes. I figured that I'd distance myself while taking ownership, only mention the violation in the paragraph allotted..

that seems reasonable.

No way to remove the quotes though you can message the people who quoted you and ask them to edit

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Spring semester freshman year puts you at... spring 2021? So a year into the pandemic?

Yes, be honest and upfront about what you did. But outside of your write-up, I'm curious if part of your panic response is because you could not access any other computers on campus due to partial lockdown/social distancing "rules". You couldn't just go to the bookstore/tech store and buy a replacement keyboard without showing proof of vaccination during the early time of limited availability.

Not trying to put an excuse, but just showing that some of us understand that time was a total clusterquack. It doesn't excuse what you did though I would not know if I were your professor and you told me "my keyboard broke... can I turn in my assignment late?" If I were a professor during those times, that would be why I would be very lenient with you and allow you to get an A in the class despite this bad decision on your part.

I'm just impressed your professor caught your codes to be that similar to warrant an academic integrity investigation. But I'm also not in that field.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

approximately 350 hours in nonclinical volunteering

Can I ask...?

 

[premed1234543212]

.Can I ask...?
Yeah, I raised donations/funds for rural communities in a 3rd world country through a national org, and I tutored kids near home virtually. I would like to do something more locally, either at college or home.

 

[premed1234543212]

@Goro could you please remove the quotes in your reply so for ID reasons

I've removed the post as I've gotten some good replies/advice, thank you to all who replied.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yeah, I raised donations/funds for rural communities in a 3rd world country through a national org, and I tutored kids near home virtually. I would like to do something more locally, either at college or home.

350 hours for fundraising and virtual tutoring? I hate to say that while fundraising is important, it doesn't move the needle without significant a face to face presence with people in distress. Tutoring begins in a different bin.

So unless you left out something, that puts you at near zero hours for service orientation activities. That likely eliminates you from most medical schools.

 

[candbgirl]

Yeah, spring 2021. It would be easy for me to blame the pandemic, but it was my decision. I put off doing half of homework until 2 days before the due date and panicked. In hindsight, emailing the professor as you said would have been the right move, I would have been given an extension or got a minor late penalty. The code was very similar since there were comments in the code. It was essentially the same, I had thought collaboration would be encouraged like in my other classes at the time but I didn't know the course policies were different for CS classes.

Yeah, I raised donations/funds for rural communities in a 3rd world country through a national org, and I tutored kids near home virtually. I would like to do something more locally, either at college or home.

You need to get some in person , out of your comfort zone, off campus experiences. Fund raising really doesn’t count, especially when the money is leaving the fund raising office and heading to a third world country. And virtual tutoring? Really? Besides, tutoring is a separate category. Get your hands dirty. Find something that deals with people very unlike yourself. Medicine is a service profession. Dealing with many patients is really hard, especially when they are at their very worst. Can you do that? Your stated activities don’t show you can. ADCOMS won’t be convinced. Get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Find something that pushes your limits- homeless, food deprived, immigrants, indigent people, .

 

[premed1234543212]

You need to get some in person , out of your comfort zone, off campus experiences. Fund raising really doesn’t count, especially when the money is leaving the fund raising office and heading to a third world country. And virtual tutoring? Really? Besides, tutoring is a separate category. Get your hands dirty. Find something that deals with people very unlike yourself. Medicine is a service profession. Dealing with many patients is really hard, especially when they are at their very worst. Can you do that? Your stated activities don’t show you can. ADCOMS won’t be convinced. Get off campus and out of your comfort zone. Find something that pushes your limits- homeless, food deprived, immigrants, indigent people, .

Would it make a difference if the fund raising involved collecting donations and informing people shopping about rural communities in 3rd world countries? I collected hygiene products from donors and delivered them personally to individuals in rural communities in 3rd world countries. I agree about your point about medicine being a service profession, and I have interacted with patients in a large capacity, although in clinical and mostly paid settings. I agree, I would like to do more that pushes my limits, but why doesn't clinical interaction show that?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Would it make a difference if the fundraising involved collecting donations and informing people shopping about rural communities in 3rd world countries? I collected hygiene products from donors and delivered them personally to individuals in rural communities in 3rd world countries. I agree about your point about medicine being a service profession, and I have interacted with patients in a large capacity, although in clinical and mostly paid settings. I agree, I would like to do more that pushes my limits, but why doesn't clinical interaction show that?

Sure, it makes a difference. Many community dental outreach projects involve giving away bags with toothbrushes, toothpaste, and floss to the children who get a brief exam. I get a little bag after my dental appointments too. I know several (former) students and some residents to help sort expired medical devices and repair them to be shipped off to third-world countries. There's value knowing that the health care systems and communities in other parts of the world make distributing such technologies extremely challenging. There's satisfaction in completing transactions that address people's needs.

But that's not what we're talking about (we = faculty and adcom leaders I have worked with for many years). We want to see compassion, empathy, and engagement in communion with people who are in dire need where your answers or expertise is insufficient to offer relief or help. A lot of people need help not just in their health/wellness. Other aspects of people's lives place people in great distress.

What you will see and asked to reflect upon is the health care challenges individual people suffer from as a result of external, systemic, or infrastructural weaknesses in our society that allow some to have better health or adapt to health challenges than others. Over the next few years, this recognition will be as important or more important as the scientific actions of pharmacological interventions available to be prescribed. And there will be a point where you can prescribe everything but see no improvement because your patient's life circumstances won't allow for adjustments to a healthier lifestyle. And a lot of that information you should be aware of but you may not be expert in.

We must be comfortable not being a "hero" or not seeking personal validation through your white coat. Too often in the history of medicine are the physicians taking positions where they claim they are making decisions on behalf of the patient or the community, especially when it comes to underresourced communities in the Global South or poor, marginalized communities in your town.

There are some faculty that agree that it should be okay. But you will be surprised that when you have to count votes, who/how many don't agree with your contention that fundraising should count because of who benefits. Every prehealth applicant can tutor and fundraise (looking at all the THON and Relay for Life fundraisers I see in applications).

There will be a point in medical training where you will be asked to be extremely vulnerable, just as you ask your patients to be. Trust is built through vulnerability to seek the common humanity that connects us. Very few will take the time and see a person in real need of companionship without seeking the recognition and spotlight for doing so. And yes, doing something consistently that others would never want to do (enlisted military, fire/police first-responders)... that grabs our attention regarding service orientation.

In short, doing it just in clinical environments gives some people the impression you're only doing it to "check the boxes." Yes, healthcare is inherently a service-oriented profession, but people also look at healthcare as a job that you can leave at the office. And there are plenty of professionals out there that only serve others because it's either in the job description or the expected role you play. Are you that person? Show us how you are not just service-oriented as a performative act to become a physician.

 

[premed1234543212]

Sure, it makes a difference. Many community dental outreach projects involve giving away bags with toothbrushes, toothpaste, and floss to the children who get a brief exam. I get a little bag after my dental appointments too. I know several (former) students and some residents to help sort expired medical devices and repair them to be shipped off to third-world countries. There's value knowing that the health care systems and communities in other parts of the world make distributing such technologies extremely challenging. There's satisfaction in completing transactions that address people's needs.

But that's not what we're talking about (we = faculty and adcom leaders I have worked with for many years). We want to see compassion, empathy, and engagement in communion with people who are in dire need where your answers or expertise is insufficient to offer relief or help. A lot of people need help not just in their health/wellness. Other aspects of people's lives place people in great distress.

What you will see and asked to reflect upon is the health care challenges individual people suffer from as a result of external, systemic, or infrastructural weaknesses in our society that allow some to have better health or adapt to health challenges than others. Over the next few years, this recognition will be as important or more important as the scientific actions of pharmacological interventions available to be prescribed. And there will be a point where you can prescribe everything but see no improvement because your patient's life circumstances won't allow for adjustments to a healthier lifestyle. And a lot of that information you should be aware of but you may not be expert in.

We must be uncomfortable not being a "hero" or seek personal validation through your white coat. Too often in the history of medicine are the physicians taking positions where they claim they are making decisions on behalf of the patient or the community, especially when it comes to underresourced communities in the Global South or poor, marginalized communities in your town.

There are some faculty that agree that it should be okay. But you will be surprised that when you have to count votes, who/how many don't agree with your contention that fundraising should count because of who benefits. Every prehealth applicant can tutor and fundraise (looking at all the THON and Relay for Life fundraisers I see in applications).

There will be a point in medical training where you will be asked to be extremely vulnerable, just as you ask your patients to be. Trust is built through vulnerability to seek the common humanity that connects us. Very few will take the time and see a person in real need of companionship without seeking the recognition and spotlight for doing so. And yes, doing something consistently that others would never want to do (enlisted military, fire/police first-responders)... that grabs our attention regarding service orientation.

In short, doing it just in clinical environments gives some people the impression you're only doing it to "check the boxes." Yes, healthcare is inherently a service-oriented profession, but people also look at healthcare as a job that you can leave at the office. And there are plenty of professionals out there that only serve others because it's either in the job description or the expected role you play. Are you that person? Show us how you are not just service-oriented as a performative act to become a physician.

Thank you for your in depth response, that makes sense. I'll try to incorporate that and push myself out of my comfort limits more.

 

[Goro]

Service need not be "unique"; it can be anything that helps people unable to help themselves and that is outside of a patient-care setting. If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients.

Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching literacy or ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Meals on Wheels, mentoring immigrant/refugee adults, being a friendly visitor to shut-ins, adaptive sports program coach or Special Olympics.