IA

[zacky123]

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Hello,
So I’m in a bit of a bind. I was in orgo 2 and I had an A+ in the class. One of my closer friends was in the same class as me and a couple days before the final she had a death in her family ( a grandparent) and it threw her off completely. During our final she had a mental breakdown and a full on panic attack ans she asked me for help on the last two questions of the exam. Now, I know I made perhaps one of the worst mistakes of my life and I sent her my answer after I had submitted my exam. She decided to then copy it directly and our tests got flagged by our prof. I was given a D in the course and I have a meeting with the professor next week. I am NOT a cheater. I have worked my butt off to do well in my classes. Has this ruined my chances of med school or PA school? I know cheating is a big red flag, and I’m also not making excuses for my actions, but these were some extenuating circumstances. I don’t know if an IA will be on my record after this but if so, how bad does this look for my admission chances? I’m also a sophomore and am planning on applying next application cycle?

 

[maybeDRmaybenot]

You didn’t benefit from it, but you cheated. Even if it’s not on your record, you will have to retake the course prior to application cycle. If it’s on your record, you probably need a few years separation since academic dishonesty is a major red flag.

 

[zacky123]

You didn’t benefit from it, but you cheated. Even if it’s not on your record, you will have to retake the course prior to application cycle. If it’s on your record, you probably need a few years separation since academic dishonesty is a major red flag.

If it doesn’t go in my record, how would I explain the D? I had a 4.0 and a 3.9 the two previous quarters before this incident.

 

[maybeDRmaybenot]

If it doesn’t go in my record, how would I explain the D? I had a 4.0 and a 3.9 the two previous quarters before this incident.

Don’t think you will need to explain the D. You still have biochem and the retake orgo2 to show you can get high grades.
We are also in the middle of a pandemic so if a time was ever great to get a D, it is now.

 

[zacky123]

Don’t think you will need to explain the D. You still have biochem and the retake orgo2 to show you can get high grades.
We are also in the middle of a pandemic so if a time was ever great to get a D, it is now.

How would I explain this IA if it does go on my Record?

 

[maybeDRmaybenot]

How would I explain this IA if it does go on my Record?

Explain what happened and what you learned from it. No way to spin cheating since all cheating is a major red flag. If enough distance between the IA and when you apply, you could ask the professor for a LOR. Only do this if you can be confident that they will write a positive LOR.

 

[zacky123]

Explain what happened and what you learned from it. No way to spin cheating since all cheating is a major red flag. If enough distance between the IA and when you apply, you could ask the professor for a LOR. Only do this if you can be confident that they will write a positive LOR.

I’m planning on applying next summer so in 4 quarters. Do you think that would be enough time to prove I can get my high grades without any incidents to show I’ve learned my lesson? Also I can see about the LOR from the prof but I don’t think she would.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

You should be worried entirely about if or if not this shows on your transcript versus being a within-class thing and hope for the latter. Plead and beg to effect, even an F is better then this showing on your transcript. If it does end up on your transcript, you will need to apply very broadly regardless of your stats and explain the situation. It will very largely negatively affect your chances, far more then a D in organic would.

 

[viralhiker]

I’m planning on applying next summer so in 4 quarters. Do you think that would be enough time to prove I can get my high grades without any incidents to show I’ve learned my lesson? Also I can see about the LOR from the prof but I don’t think she would.

The distance between your incident and applying is not to show you can get high grades... Four quarters (or one year) is not long enough. If this goes on your record, you need to take multiple years to demonstrate growth, maturity, integrity, etc.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

At your meeting, I would fully explain the situation, show all documentation, and basically plead and beg to keep what happened in house. Accept any and all in class consequences. You are at an advantage in that you didn’t stand to benefit from this.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

The distance between your incident and applying is not to show you can get high grades... Four quarters (or one year) is not long enough. If this goes on your record, you need to take multiple years to demonstrate growth, maturity, integrity, etc.

Imho if this does become an IA, this isn’t something that would fully kill the application for every school. It would certainly mean applying to schools far below this person’s tier but I can imagine adcoms giving leniency with a good enough explanation as well as the fact that OP did not stand to benefit from this action

 

[zacky123]

You should be worried entirely about if or if not this shows on your transcript versus being a within-class thing and hope for the latter. Plead and beg to effect, even an F is better then this showing on your transcript. If it does end up on your transcript, you will need to apply very broadly regardless of your stats and explain the situation. It will very largely negatively affect your chances, far more then a D in organic would.

It won’t show on any transcript. My uni doesn’t put on transcript. There would be a conduct record I believe, though.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

It won’t show on any transcript. My uni doesn’t put on transcript. There would be a conduct record I believe, though.

AAMC does ask for your institutional actions, thus even with it not being on the transcript you would be required to report this. Your best hope is that the professor does not take any steps to do anything that would show on any of your records outside of giving you a 0 on the exam. Lying is risky here as it can pretty much blacklist you from medical schools if found out.

 

[zacky123]

Imho if this does become an IA, this isn’t something that would fully kill the application for every school. It would certainly mean applying to schools far below this person’s tier but I can imagine adcoms giving leniency with a good enough explanation as well as the fact that OP did not stand to benefit from this action

That’s what I was thinking, but I would still rather just not have this on my record. I will take this D over and IA on record for sure. I am already retaking the class next quarter starting next week.

 

[zacky123]

AAMC does ask for your institutional actions, thus even with it not being on the transcript you would be required to report this. Your best hope is that the professor does not take any steps to do anything that would show on any of your records outside of giving you a 0 on the exam. Lying is risky here as it can pretty much blacklist you from medical schools if found out.

My uni is split up into different colleges on campus and every IA situation like this goes to the provost of your college. They can either decide to give you a formal warning that goes on record or just a verbal warning and nothing that goes to the head of university. I have my meeting with provost in two weeks and I’m hoping she understands and won’t give me anything formal

 

[Goro]

If it doesn’t go in my record, how would I explain the D? I had a 4.0 and a 3.9 the two previous quarters before this incident.

I have to be honest, I pick up on a D in a sea of A's and I immediately wonder if this was due to a cheating incident.
While you made a bad choice, I don't think your transgression is necessarily lethal.

But you'd better start displaying better judgment from now on, and do not screw up again. You will have to explain this, and own it.

 

[LizzyM]

What you want to avoid, as you know, is the "instittution" taking an action and not just the professor. Even if there is no benefit to the applicant, there is some gratification in helping someone in trouble, even if that help is against the rules. This can be a problem in medicine when people do shady things to get someone onto a transplant list or commit insurance fraud to get a patient the help they need.

OP, if you end up with an IA for this, you'd best join the military or a community service organization here or abroad (Peace Corps, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, Luthern Volunteer Corps, VISTA volunteers) and put some distance between you and this event.

 

[zacky123]

I have to be honest, I pick up on a D in a sea of A's and I immediately wonder if this was due to a cheating incident.
While you made a bad choice, I don't think your transgression is necessarily lethal.

But you'd better start displaying better judgment from now on, and do not screw up again. You will have to explain this, and own it.

Most definitely I will. I will own up to it if there are any questions asked about the D or the IA if I end up getting one. So you think I haven’t killed my chances?

 

[zacky123]

What you want to avoid, as you know, is the "instittution" taking an action and not just the professor. Even if there is no benefit to the applicant, there is some gratification in helping someone in trouble, even if that help is against the rules. This can be a problem in medicine when people do shady things to get someone onto a transplant list or commit insurance fraud to get a patient the help they need.

OP, if you end up with an IA for this, you'd best join the military or a community service organization here or abroad (Peace Corps, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, Luthern Volunteer Corps, VISTA volunteers) and put some distance between you and this event.

I understand this. I only did this Bc I saw a friend who was in a very dark place having a panic attack and only then did I decide to help her. I would not have otherwise. Don’t you think I would be shown some mercy for that?

 

[Goro]

I understand this. I only did this Bc I saw a friend who was in a very dark place having a panic attack and only then did I decide to help her. I would not have otherwise. Don’t you think I would be shown some mercy for that?

Do you understand the concept of cheating? ????


This is a disqualifier for me! You did something knowingly that you were not supposed to do. That your friend was in crisis is irrelevant, you shouldn't have done it.

What you should have done was get your friend to a mental health expert.

If you explain this the way you did in your o p and just now, and I were interviewing you, I would reject you before you left the interview room.

 

[zacky123]

Do you understand the concept of cheating? ????


This is a disqualifier for me! You did something knowingly that you were not supposed to do. That your friend was in crisis is irrelevant, you shouldn't have done it.

What you should have done was get your friend to a mental health expert.

If you explain this the way you did in your o p and just now, and I were interviewing you, I would reject you before you left the interview room.

Okay noted. I know I shouldn’t have done this and I won’t explain it this way I will just say what I did and own it.

 

[zacky123]

Do you understand the concept of cheating? ????


This is a disqualifier for me! You did something knowingly that you were not supposed to do. That your friend was in crisis is irrelevant, you shouldn't have done it.

What you should have done was get your friend to a mental health expert.

If you explain this the way you did in your o p and just now, and I were interviewing you, I would reject you before you left the interview room.

Okay noted. I do understand cheating I shouldn’t have worded my post this way. I just was explaining what happened. I know I make a mistake and I know I shouldn’t have done this and I will own up to this and never come close to making the same mistake again. I will learn from this and grow from it.

 

[zacky123]

Do you understand the concept of cheating? ????


This is a disqualifier for me! You did something knowingly that you were not supposed to do. That your friend was in crisis is irrelevant, you shouldn't have done it.

What you should have done was get your friend to a mental health expert.

If you explain this the way you did in your o p and just now, and I were interviewing you, I would reject you before you left the interview room.

My main question was just really have I killed my chances all together?

 

[Goro]

My main question was just really have I killed my chances all together?

I don't think so. You know, sometimes you have to apply with the app you have, warts and all, and see how the cycle shakes out.

IF you don't apply, your rejection rate will be 100%.

IA or no, always have a Plan B

 

[zacky123]

I don't think so. You know, sometimes you have to apply with the app you have, warts and all, and see how the cycle shakes out.

IF you don't apply, your rejection rate will be 100%.

IA or no, always have a Plan B

Thank you. I take the mcat this fall so wish me luck. I will just push forward and see how stuff works out. Thank you for your help with this one.

 

[JimKimSlim]

Hello,
So I’m in a bit of a bind. I was in orgo 2 and I had an A+ in the class. One of my closer friends was in the same class as me and a couple days before the final she had a death in her family ( a grandparent) and it threw her off completely. During our final she had a mental breakdown and a full on panic attack ans she asked me for help on the last two questions of the exam. Now, I know I made perhaps one of the worst mistakes of my life and I sent her my answer after I had submitted my exam. She decided to then copy it directly and our tests got flagged by our prof. I was given a D in the course and I have a meeting with the professor next week. I am NOT a cheater. I have worked my butt off to do well in my classes. Has this ruined my chances of med school or PA school? I know cheating is a big red flag, and I’m also not making excuses for my actions, but these were some extenuating circumstances. I don’t know if an IA will be on my record after this but if so, how bad does this look for my admission chances? I’m also a sophomore and am planning on applying next application cycle?

I agree with everyone that You will need some time between the incident and your application cycle. Try joining the school’s honor council, and a gap year is almost warranted. IMO, crushing the MCAT will go a long way, if you can pull off 525+.

 

[zacky123]

I agree with everyone that You will need some time between the incident and your application cycle. Try joining the school’s honor council, and a gap year is almost warranted. IMO, crushing the MCAT will go a long way, if you can pull off 525+.

Do you think doing a post bac would help?

 

[zacky123]

Do you think doing a post bac would help?

I’ll try my hardest to get a 525+

I agree with everyone that You will need some time between the incident and your application cycle. Try joining the school’s honor council, and a gap year is almost warranted. IMO, crushing the MCAT will go a long way, if you can pull off 525+.

 

[JimKimSlim]

Do you think doing a post bac would help?

It’s certainly one way to put some time between the incident and your application cycle. If SMP is your plan (which might be challenging given the IA), you should do an EC that shows you have matured since the IA.

If I were you, I’d look for a healthcare legal clerk job with patient contact. You can show legal maturity and gain clinical experience at the same time.

 

[zacky123]

It’s certainly one way to put some time between the incident and your application cycle. If SMP is your plan (which might be challenging given the IA), you should do an EC that shows you have matured since the IA.

If I were you, I’d look for a healthcare legal clerk job with patient contact. You can show legal maturity and gain clinical experience at the same time.

I’m already signed up for a CNA course that has a guaranteed job at the end of completion. Would that help?

 

[zacky123]

It’s certainly one way to put some time between the incident and your application cycle. If SMP is your plan (which might be challenging given the IA), you should do an EC that shows you have matured since the IA.

If I were you, I’d look for a healthcare legal clerk job with patient contact. You can show legal maturity and gain clinical experience at the same time.

Also, it’s not for sure I will receive an IA. I still have to have my meeting and based off what I’ve heard about my professor and provost, it seems I have a good chance of no IA being reported.

 

[JimKimSlim]

Also, it’s not for sure I will receive an IA. I still have to have my meeting and based off what I’ve heard about my professor and provost, it seems I have a good chance of no IA being reported.

Still, a D on your transcript can prompt ADCOMs to call the provost or the professor. However, no IA means no permanent record, which means no need to report on your application unless you’re specifically asked to (I think Cincinnati does on their secondary application).

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Horrible advice of the day: get a bunch of bad grades in the rest of your classes to make the D appear less anomalous, blame COVID to effect.
Post-bacc isn't necessary here, just have a good reason for why you got a bad grade.

to call the provost or the professor.

I am 90% sure that the provost/professor would be in violation of FERPA if they responded to this without your consent.

This is apparently wrong ^^

 

[maybeDRmaybenot]

Still, a D on your transcript can prompt ADCOMs to call the provost or the professor. However, no IA means no permanent record, which means no need to report on your application unless you’re specifically asked to (I think Cincinnati does on their secondary application).

They might be prompted to ask zacky123 about it during an interview, but no chance they contact the provost/professor regarding a D.

 

[zacky123]

They might be prompted to ask zacky123 about it during an interview, but no chance they contact the provost/professor regarding a D.

Yes that’s fine if they ask me about it. If there is no IA it can be attributed to being in a pandemic or burnout or something

 

[zacky123]

Horrible advice of the day: get a bunch of bad grades in the rest of your classes to make the D appear less anomalous, blame COVID to effect.
Post-bacc isn't necessary here, just have a good reason for why you got a bad grade.

I am 90% sure that the provost/professor would be in violation of FERPA if they responded to this without your consent.

Would post bacc be necessary if there does end up being an IA?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Would post bacc be necessary if there does end up being an IA?

Post bacc isn’t necessary either way.

 

[maybeDRmaybenot]

Would post bacc be necessary if there does end up being an IA?

You don't need to show that you're academically able to perform in med school. You need too show that you are a trustworthy person who won't cheat.

 

[zacky123]

You don't need to show that you're academically able to perform in med school. You need too show that you are a trustworthy person who won't cheat.

Would working as a CNA with no incidents help with that?

 

[zacky123]

Post bacc isn’t necessary either way.

Okay thank you for the help. I’m hoping it’s no IA.

 

[Flareicus]

Would working as a CNA with no incidents help with that?

It would be demonstrated through your volunteer work/engagement with the community.

You need to do everything you can to fight against the IA, and it's worse as it sounds like you're in your junior year. It's a stain you don't want on your record and will likely cost you 2-3 additional gap years in order for you to make up for it. Even beyond that, it may also knock you down the ladder in terms of the tier of school you will be competitive for.

While it doesn't close off your path to medical school, if it ends up on your record, it will be a gigantic pain in the butt to deal with.

 

[Stride]

Yes that’s fine if they ask me about it. If there is no IA it can be attributed to being in a pandemic or burnout or something

No, it cannot. That is a lie.

The more I read this thread, the more concerned I become for you. If you have no IA but still got the D because of cheating, you cannot respond to this question during your interview by attributing it to something that is not true. That is a clear misrepresentation, a lack of authenticity. In your secondaries, you will sign something that says that anything you provide to the admissions committee is accurate and truthful.

Words that are not written seem more transient but can be equally duplicitous. You do not want to get into medical school this way. Your best bet would be that it simply does not come up in interviews. If the school found out that you lied (they often take notes on your answers), your acceptance can be rescinded, even if you have already matriculated.

 

[candbgirl]

Imho if this does become an IA, this isn’t something that would fully kill the application for every school. It would certainly mean applying to schools far below this person’s tier but I can imagine adcoms giving leniency with a good enough explanation as well as the fact that OP did not stand to benefit from this action

So lower tiered schools are more likely to admit someone with an Academic Dishonesty IA than upper tier? Really?

OP don’t say “I’m not a cheater “ because that’s what you did.

 

[candbgirl]

My uni is split up into different colleges on campus and every IA situation like this goes to the provost of your college. They can either decide to give you a formal warning that goes on record or just a verbal warning and nothing that goes to the head of university. I have my meeting with provost in two weeks and I’m hoping she understands and won’t give me anything formal

So it has already moved to the next level? That’s what this sounds like. It’s above the professor level if you have a meeting with the Provost in two weeks. OP please be careful how you word things when you have your meeting. You still have not owned the fact that you in fact cheated. You keep talking about your friend and expecting mercy for being a good friend. You aren’t accepting responsibility for getting yourself into this mess. And that’s where you have to start.
Please let us know how this turns out.

 

[candbgirl]

Yes that’s fine if they ask me about it. If there is no IA it can be attributed to being in a pandemic or burnout or something

OMG don’t lie if asked about the D. You seem like a nice person but really immature in decision making. Maybe a couple of additional gap years is exactly what you need. Med School will always be there.

 

[zacky123]

So lower tiered schools are more likely to admit someone with an Academic Dishonesty IA than upper tier? Really?

OP don’t say “I’m not a cheater “ because that’s what you did

So it has already moved to the next level? That’s what this sounds like. It’s above the professor level if you have a meeting with the Provost in two weeks. OP please be careful how you word things when you have your meeting. You still have not owned the fact that you in fact cheated. You keep talking about your friend and expecting mercy for being a good friend. You aren’t accepting responsibility for getting yourself into this mess. And that’s where you have to start.
Please let us know how this turns out.

I have owned the fact I cheated. I said it multiple times in this thread that I know what I did was wrong amd that it’s cheating and that I will own up to it if asked about it. And no it has not gone to my university. That way my school is set up is the professor handles the academic sanction while the provost decides if any non academic sanction is warranted. So in my case, I see my provost and she decides if I get an IA to send to the dean to be put in my file. If she doesn’t and just gives a verbal warning but nothing on paper or on file than I have no IA. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[zacky123]

It would be demonstrated through your volunteer work/engagement with the community.

You need to do everything you can to fight against the IA, and it's worse as it sounds like you're in your junior year. It's a stain you don't want on your record and will likely cost you 2-3 additional gap years in order for you to make up for it. Even beyond that, it may also knock you down the ladder in terms of the tier of school you will be competitive for.

While it doesn't close off your path to medical school, if it ends up on your record, it will be a gigantic pain in the butt to deal with.

No I am in my sophomore year. I am a sophomore.

 

[zacky123]

It would be demonstrated through your volunteer work/engagement with the community.

You need to do everything you can to fight against the IA, and it's worse as it sounds like you're in your junior year. It's a stain you don't want on your record and will likely cost you 2-3 additional gap years in order for you to make up for it. Even beyond that, it may also knock you down the ladder in terms of the tier of school you will be competitive for.

While it doesn't close off your path to medical school, if it ends up on your record, it will be a gigantic pain in the butt to deal with.

Okay I am already planning on volunteeeing at my local food bank and crisis shelter for my county this summer.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

So lower tiered schools are more likely to admit someone with an Academic Dishonesty IA than upper tier? Really?

OP don’t say “I’m not a cheater “ because that’s what you did.

A lower tier DO school is far more likely to take a 3.9/515 with a dumb but not benefiting self IA then an Ivy league yep. The OP knows they ****ed up. No need to go on some self righteous crusade.

 

[zacky123]

A lower tier DO school is far more likely to take a 3.9/515 with a dumb but not benefiting self IA then an Ivy league yep. The OP knows they ****ed up. No need to go on some self righteous crusade.

Well my cumulative gpa isn’t a 3.9 I just got a 3.9 and a 4.0 in the quarters leading up to this incident. My cGPA is a 3.5 rn but I can get that to a 3.66+ By application time next summer.