Idaho DAT Scandal

[dddsmack]

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At my school, UofU, there has been rumors spreading like wildfire about 5-10 BYU-Idaho guys who all scored 27+ on the DAT (AA) and them being under investigation.

Anybody hear or know anything about this. This has huge implications to us out west. I have a cousin who wants to get into the IDEP program with creighton but was discouraged by how competitve the apps are up there after talking to a secretary. With only 5 to 10 spots open for these IDEP/RDEP programs, any cheating scandal could rock both states and effect the standing of nearly 500-600 predents.

Again, these are rumors only that I have heard and I was wondering if anybody had heard about this?

 

[ilikecows]

What in the world?? I would love to hear more about this if anyone has any info...

 

[dddsmack]

my thoughts exactly..........

 

[bruinpredent]

there has been a lot of byu trash talking as of late here on sdn, and now i guess it makes sense. in fact i recall there being a thread on this before, with all the byu people defending and saying it was a lie or whatever.

i might be wrong, but thats all i know

 

[johntara04]

You have to remember that these tests are designed for the majority of the population to score around a 16-18. They pay the 'experts' a lot of money to keep the tests that way. The DAT is a test to keep people out of dental school. This test allows the admissions committee to look at 4,000 applications and say, "okay, everyone with a DAT lower than _____ get rid of. Now we only have 500 applications to sift through."

So, when a group of people in a small geographical region score that good on the DAT (which is designed so nobody gets a 27) the takers of the test feel that the students had to have cheated. Now, I don't know if they did or not, but if they did not cheat, then the person that taught them how to study for the DAT will become rich teaching all of you how to study, and the makers of the DAT will be scrambing to completely change the test so that their technique no longer works.

 

[blue_moon01]

I personally don't think that getting a 27 AA is impossible. But 5 -10 people getting the same high score who happens to come from the same geographical area is highly suspicious to me. That is if 5-10 people from the same area really did get the same 27 AA score.

hehe 🙂 if it was a group of 5-10 asians getting a 27 AA then it would be more believable 😀 😀 kidding! kidding people.... or am I?

 

[Veneto]

I personally don't think that getting a 27 AA is impossible. But 5 -10 people getting the same high score who happens to come from the same geographical area is highly suspicious to me. That is if 5-10 people from the same area really did get the same 27 AA score.

hehe 🙂 if it was a group of 5-10 asians getting a 27 AA then it would be more believable 😀 😀 kidding! kidding people.... or am I?

A 27 is no more impossible than a school with 97% of its applying class being accepted into dental school. So 5-10 really high DAT scores coming from an area where there is a huge amount of mormons is not so unlikley. Whether you like the mormon religion or not alot of them are being accepted into dental school, and alot of them have very high scores on the DAT and have high GPA's. As far as what the quoted message says it's easy for me to believe a bunch of asians could attain the high score, because if you look at the asian culture there is much pride on academics. That is the same with the mormon culture where academic performance and education is looked very highly upon. Is that being stereotypical? Yes, but you cant dispute the stats.

 

[naivegrl124]

I personally don't think that getting a 27 AA is impossible. But 5 -10 people getting the same high score who happens to come from the same geographical area is highly suspicious to me. That is if 5-10 people from the same area really did get the same 27 AA score.

hehe 🙂 if it was a group of 5-10 asians getting a 27 AA then it would be more believable 😀 😀 kidding! kidding people.... or am I?

LOL that is so stereotypical! but how true...I had an asian friend who was taking a math course and on the first test everybody including him did really well (class average 95) and so he thought everybody in the class was a supergenius or something because the test was really hard and he had study his butt off. Well, then comes the next test where he didn't study at all for it and so he was worried/scared that he would end up last in the class and when the teacher gave back the graded test he failed.....including the 6 people around him lol..... .

 

[blue_moon01]

A 27 is no more impossible than a school with 97% of its applying class being accepted into dental school. So 5-10 really high DAT scores coming from an area where there is a huge amount of mormons is not so unlikley. Whether you like the mormon religion or not alot of them are being accepted into dental school, and alot of them have very high scores on the DAT and have high GPA's. As far as what the quoted message says it's easy for me to believe a bunch of asians could attain the high score, because if you look at the asian culture there is much pride on academics. That is the same with the mormon culture where academic performance and education is looked very highly upon. Is that being stereotypical? Yes, but you cant dispute the stats.

I have nothing against mormons, blacks, whites, catholics, jews, asians ...or whatever. I m suspicious of everyone equally. 😀 I just have a problem with people who cheats especially when their cheating affects me in any way. (Not that I'm saying cheating is involved here because it's not proven.) In this case, the people who are accused of cheating happens to be mormons. Some may focus on that but I, like most SDN members dont really care what religion, background you come from. If you cheat and your cheating affect us, we're gonna be riled up and that's that.
On the other hand, if you are a straightup genius, I have total mad respect for you as a person, your colouring and religion has got nothing to do with it.
😀 😀
I'm asian btw.

 

[dddsmack]

I appreciate all the opinions, but has anybody heard anything about this?

I am reserving my opinion purposely. As this may relate to the RDEP program indirectly.

 

[jmick101]

Two threads like this were posted back in August. Nobody knew anything about them either.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=312208&highlight=byu+cheating

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=312601&highlight=byu+cheating

 

[dddsmack]

I don't know if these two situations are related. Maybe.

This supposedly occurred in Rexburg.

 

[Red Falcon]

I call BS on multiple 27's on the DAT without cheating. The DAT scoring mechanism is structured like a standard bell curve. Most of the entering students in dental school score between 17-19 on the DAT. Many score 15-17 on their first attempts. Outside of that, it becomes increasingly difficult on the upward scoring trend. It is also extremely unlikely to find someone that scored a 7 on their DAT. You have to miss a plethora of questions to score that low. Likewise, you have to get almost every question correct on the sections to score 22+. That's why scoring 20 is such a big deal ont he DAT.

Why? Because the test is very forgiving for missing questions within a certain range. You can miss 25% of the questions on a section and still make a respectable score. If you miss 15% of the questions on a section, your score will vary little from that person that missed 25% of the questions on that section believe it or not. That's why many applicants become frustrated when they put in extra time to get a 20+ and still hit 19's. You can't miss more than 10% of the questions to get 20+ scores.

In order to achieve a 27 on the DAT, one would have to average insane point totals across all sections of the exam. The max for BIO is 29 and 28 for general chemistry. Anybody that scores that on those sections has aced that part of the exam. However, it's possible to score 30 on the organic chemistry section as well as the rest of the sections (QR, RC, PAT). I've seen a few 25-26's on this forum since I've been here. And remember how difficult the PAT was? ~21 on that section is considered 99% to give an idea of how difficult it is. So someone would have to surpass even that and score 26 on that section and ace the rest of the exam for a shot at a 27 DAT score.

I think the ADA has grounds to check into those DAT score reports up in Utah. An aggregation of 27s (even 25's) that close is very questionable. Then again, aliens could have crash-landed in Utah and shown the Mormon predental population how to score 27's across all sections in their spare time.

 

[denteng]

I don't know if these two situations are related. Maybe.

This supposedly occurred in Rexburg.

It sounds like you know more details. Why don't you fill us in on what you have heard.

 

[dddsmack]

Rexburg Idaho is where the latest scandal is supposedly taking place. Still mormon, but Idaho.

Has anybody heard anything about BYU-Idaho in Rexburg?

I don't know much more than I have told, but I am extremely interested. I do have an opinion that I will reserve for after dec one.

 

[denteng]

The reality is, there is very little one could do about this. I've already got my dat scores, did well, and so did quite a number of other SDN'ers.

I'm not going to stress about it, and I suggest other people do not either. It is mildly interesting gossip, but little beyond that.

 

[denteng]

Rexburg Idaho is where the latest scandal is supposedly taking place. Still mormon, but Idaho.

Has anybody heard anything about BYU-Idaho in Rexburg?

I don't know much more than I have told, but I am extremely interested. I do have an opinion that I will reserve for after dec one.

Do you seriously expect other people to comment if you will not give your own opinion? Basically, you're saying "I want you to help me, but I will not help you."

If you want to remain even more anonymous, create a new account and post your reply.

Otherwise, this is a worthless thread if people will not say what they've heard.

 

[denteng]

At my school, UofU,

Heh.. just noticed this. UofU. I like! 🙂 🙂

 

[dddsmack]

Denteng, I apologize if this thread is worthless to you. Don't post in it or read it. I am not going to make you. This may have an effect on where I go to D school. So while you are just on here to burn time before dec 1, I am sincerely interested.


This thread may not get any info posted to it, but like the RDEP thread, it was worth a shot to me.

 

[blue_moon01]

. The max for BIO is 29 and 28 for general chemistry. Anybody that scores that on those sections has aced that part of the exam.

I got a 29 on general chem.....so 28 is not the max you can get

 

[dddsmack]

Nobody is sure exactly what you can get on the different sections of the version of the DAT you took.

All the norms are unique.

 

[lgreen_aci]

I'm in Boise, Idaho (opposite side of the state from Rexburg). Reading this thread is the first I have heard of it though. We don't have much of a dental community at my college (I think 4 of us want to be dentists out of 1000 students, lol) so news doesn't spread very fast. If I hear anything though I'll post it.

 

[ItsGavinC]

This topic will be interesting when somebody produces some evidence that cheating has occurred, or even that somebody (much less multiple people) even scored a 27.

 

[cbc32]

I am still curious about how one goes about cheating on the DAT. I took the DAT before I knew about this website and I consider people posting questions from their DAT's on this website a form of cheating also. Everybody should go into the test being completely clueless to what exactly is going to be on it. If students are able to figure out how the ADA rotates the tests then I could see students cheating. But with me, I was stripped of everything but my clothes when I went in to take the DAT so I am wondering how else a group of students could get away with this?

 

[blue_moon01]

I really wonder why people would cheat in the first place. IT seems like a lot of work and stress.

One way of cheating is......
you have to find people who can sell you information and trust that they won't sell you out or blackmail you later on. that's an easy way to get stomach ulcers, baldness and bankruptcy

The second one is to find a group of people with excellent memory and pay them to go in and memorize sections of the tests.
Needless to say, you will have to hire lots of people and have them take it multiple times. Then later on, worry about getting black-mailed. This is another easy way of getting stomach ulcers and baldness not to mention going broke.

The third way is to buy a state-of - the art spy equipment AKA hidden camera in eye-glasses or braces. hire people to go take the test and just take photos of the test.THen worry about getting black-mailed. this is also a way to go bankrupt and get stomach ulcers and go bald.

See? Cheating = going bald, stomach ulcers and bankruptcy.

I find it easier to just study, then you would only have to worry about baldness and ulcers.

 

[blue_moon01]

oh I've just thought of another way to cheat and get 28AA 29AA
I dont know about 30AA though

SO you find the smallest test center and find out exactly how many stations there are. Then you hire people to take tests and schedule it so that when you are taking your DAT, everyone in the center are your people. To make it less suspicious, make sure that the people you hire sign up for different tests like LSAt, GRE, MCAT( will be computerized in Jan 07), ect...

Then you roll in with experts in chem, o chem, bio, reading, math and oregami for the PAT. You even make sure to get your people in as proctors during the exam. This means that you have to hire people and have them replace workers in the test center. you might have to put these undercover agents in a year or two before you plan to take the test.

So there you go. When it's time to test, the test center is your playground, your experts will guide you and you can even have people there looking up answers.
And if you're really paranoid you can even hire a computer wiz who can tamper with the timing mechanism of the test and give you the whole damn day to complete your test.

Really simple plan, you just need lots of money and a trustworthy assassin to get rid of the people who help you cheat so they can't sell information or blackmail you afterward. Therefore reduce your stress level and prevent stomach ulcers and going bald.

 

[dddsmack]

This topic will be interesting when somebody produces some evidence that cheating has occurred, or even that somebody (much less multiple people) even scored a 27.

I agree, that is why I posted it, to see if anybody really knows anything. I am finding out that even though Utah and Idaho mormons make up a large chunk of the predent population, they don't really use SDN. I think I should quit too.

 

[nate28]

However, it's possible to score 30 on the organic chemistry section as well as the rest of the sections (QR, RC, PAT). And remember how difficult the PAT was? ~21 on that section is considered 99% to give an idea of how difficult it is.

I don't think you can get a 30 on O-chem... I got a 29, and I don't think you could get a 29 if you missed one question. It would probably drop to a 26. Then a 21 on PAT is 93.1%. And doesn't Napoleon Dynamite wear a shirt that says "Ricks College" (aka BYU-Idaho)?