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IDEA

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by DoWannaBe, Mar 10, 1999.

  1. DoWannaBe

    DoWannaBe Junior Member
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    You know what.. I have an idea.. Let's make DO schools MD schools.. it should not be a problem.. and then, all the DO schools can offer optional degree (conjunction with MD) for those who wants to be trained as otheopaths as well..
    then,.. everything may be solved...

    just an idea I had..

     
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  3. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member
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    I've got a much better idea. How about if those people that want M.D. degrees attend schools that confer M.D. degrees and stay out of the osteopathic medical schools? This would satisfy both the people who want to be M.D.s and those of us who want to conserve this noble 100+ year old profession known as osteopathic medicine.

    Gregory

    [This message has been edited by Gregory Gulick (edited 03-10-99).]
     
  4. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member
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  5. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    I want to get a DO degree. It wouldn't be fair for those students who WANT to be an osteopathic physician to get an MD degree just because another classmate feels insecure about their professional designation. Yes, I realize that some people will discriminate against me because I do not have an MD degree. Who cares, those people are stupid. Some ignorant people discriminate against me because I'm Chinese, same issue here, they are stupid and their opinions don't count anyways.

    EDGAR
     
  6. Ponyboy

    Ponyboy Senior Member
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    here's my idea. how about we abolish both MD and DO degrees as well as the european MB, BS, BAO and have every medical school in the world offer a MP or PM degree (physician of medicine or medical physician, a little redundant but we need more than one letter to make a good abbreviation). each school can agree to teach a basic required medical curriculum plus whatever else they feel is necessary (OMM, research, etc). then physicians will no longer be divided thru this stupid political agenda system that we have now and physicians will be known not by which 'club' they belong to but by what they personally practice.


    in addition, i propose that we make the work week of a physician similar to that of a normal full-time job or even better, a more productive four-day workweek (which i think everyone should have) (of course some would have to work nights and weekends but this would be evenly distributed throughout the work force). this would increase both the energy level and the competency of the doctor (doctors who have been on their feet for the past 36 hours are not the type i want to trust my life with).

    then, how about if we stop paying enormous amounts of money to physicians and let them have salaries just a little above that of the mean income of whatever city they live in (in parts of europe, being a doctor isn't glorified or as well paying as it is here). that way, people will wish to become doctors because they wish to help people, not for the money.

    -just a thought
     
  7. cliff

    cliff Senior Member
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    This is not such a good idea I think. Looking at what happened in California (the try me first here state) backfired bad. UC Irvine roots were osteopathic. Look into the history of the medical profession for some insight.

    If you open your eyes to the past, the future becomes clear.

    later.
     
  8. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member
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    Can we hold off a few years before we decrease my future earnings to $35,000/year at least until I pay off my loans? I estimate that will be around the turn of the NEXT millenium.

    Hoping that my lender's computer isn't Y2K compliant...

    Gregory [​IMG]

     
  9. VM

    VM Senior Member
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    Turn DO schools to MD schools? Great, so then all schools will pick students by narrow stats! Give me a break.
     
  10. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    Ponyboy, be careful. All the things you suggest sound really great, however all of these things are present in countries where socialized medicine is practiced. I personally do not think this is the answer to our problems with health care in the United States. There is no easy fix, but our country is a capitalist society, and many of the problems you cite stem from this. I have lived in Scotland and Italy, both countries with socialized medicine. They are not problem free, either.

    I don't claim to have the answers for how to fix things, by the way! [​IMG]
     
  11. Karen

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    It is pathetic that everyone is carrying on about which letters they have behind thier name. With increasing competition to get into either osteopathic or allopthic(USA or foreign) medical school, one should be very happy at getting into any school. I thought the whole point was helping patients. Either type of school will get you to your goal - - - HELPING PEOPLE!!!
     
  12. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member
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    I think that the average salary of a physician is more than justified. After all, it's 8 years of school, 3-7 years residency and ~ 120K - 180K of debts.
    By the way, if money was my motivation, I would have gone with an MBA.

    I have quite an experience with Drs. in Europe - so I don't want to be told that they are not glorified bc/ that's false (and they do make tones of money - at least specialists do).
    later
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03

     
  13. Ponyboy

    Ponyboy Senior Member
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    i think that one of the problems is also the incredible cost associated with medical school and higher education in general. again, in some countries, the cost of education is free or dirt cheap. anyways, tuition only makes up less than 10% of the actual income of a medical school. if the cost of medical school is lowered, then the debt is lowered and there is less incentive for making a lot of money.

    as for glorification, some countries do glorify docs while others don't. it really depends on which country you're in. i can't say that i think that we can actively destroy the pre-existing glorification of physicians. only that the removal of enormous monetary rewards will discourage those who see it as a means to get rich. also, if working conditions and salary are the same for all physicians, specialists will not be given more money because they are specialists.

    i didn't say that we should move to socialized medicine. living in canada, i know full well the troubles of universal public health. but i don't think that capitalism is the anwser either. i think that there is a happy medium somewhere in between that no one has found yet.

    here's another idea concerning medical education: entry into medical school starts one year after general studies at a university. admission is done thru a month long selection process where potential premed students are invited to the university and asked to join in workshops and activities where admission committees can evaluate their performance and motives. then after admission, a seven year med program begins (remember, this is assuming cheap or free education). in the first four years, students can learn the required material at a pace less intense and demanding than what they presently do. this is similar to what happens in the UK and is similar to their undergrad degree in medical science. during this time, instead of having to memorize useless facts like in undergrad, students are taught critical thinking skills, creative skills and problem-solving skills. they are still required to learn the basic science courses but they get the chance to avoid the repetitive undergrad memorization that we do at present and learn skills that are directly applicable to medicine and life in general (i have some theories about undergrad education but there's not enough time for that now). by doing a four year basic science program, they are given more free time to pursue their individual interests while also learning to think (something hardly seen in undergrad programs nowadays). after the first four years, students are given three years of clinical training, better preparing them for future practice. by giving them three years of experience, they gain more exposure and we don't end up with residents who've run an IV "a couple of times before"(i'm not making this up!). total time: 8 years same amount of time for most med students.
    -what do you think?
     
  14. Ponyboy

    Ponyboy Senior Member
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    BTW NICK, when they say that the average salary for an MBA is higher than that of an MD/DO for the first 10 years, they're talking about the mean salary for MBA's with jobs. the mode salary (the one that is most common) of MBA's is much lower than that of the mode salary docs. just like how the mean salary for baseball players is astronomical because there are a few players who get paid an enormous amount of money but most of the other players make much more modest amounts of money. also, an MBA is much riskier in terms of employment than a professional medcial degree. seems like being a doc is a better bet for getting rich than going into business (besides, it's way too boring).
    IMO, if i wanted money, i would have gone into dentistry or optometry: better hours, close to similar salary, and nearly the same amount of reverence (unfortuneatly, that would still be too boring and unfulfilling for me).
     
  15. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member
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    In France the education is free - including med schools. As to the curriculum, it's the same as in the UK - 7 years strait.

    By the way, I agree with Ponyboy's evaluation of the MBA (statistically speaking)- my own experience with MBAs salaries is a little different.

    To answer ponyboy's post above: I like the fact that the medical education is done in two different parts (undergrad. & grad). See, I had no idea I wanted to be a doctor right after high school, it came to me much later during my final years of college. The good thing about the American educational system is that you can go for history, art, psychology in undergrad and still and up in med school. You don't see that in Europe. In France everything is specialized early on, meaning that if you go for history, then you go for history until the end or you start over at the bottom. I assume that it is the same thing in the UK - I might be wrong.
    I simply thing that the American College education, all dough not one of the cheapest, is one of the very best as it allows people to get a "diverse" education if desired.
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03

     
  16. Henry

    Henry Senior Member
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    Are we wasting time in discussing this issue? I believe this MD/DO issue has been discussed for too long.
     
  17. ussdfiant

    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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  18. cornell2004

    cornell2004 Senior Member
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    this is like beating a dead horse, burying it, pissing on its grave, digging it back up and beating it again
     
  19. ussdfiant

    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    For fun, instead of studying, I like to bump up the oldest post in a forum and see if anyone realizes that the discussion has ended years earlier!
     
  20. cornell2004

    cornell2004 Senior Member
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    my bad, i thought u were just one of those people bringing up an annoying, neverending argument
     

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