Idiotic SDN Group Thinking

[Doctor McLovin]

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Dear My Fellow SDNers,

I wanted to make this thread and challenge some of the group thinking that has plagued the SDN Pre-Dental forum. People have made unfounded statements, which was followed by more people quoting them and agreeing with them or repeating them. This has turned these theories into laws and anyone who doesn't follow them into idiots.

Doctor McLovin's 1st challenge:

The reputation of the school among people in dentistry is more important than the reputation of the school among people in general.

There are some legitimate reasons that back this. It is true that the reputation of the school among dentists will be important because it'll certainly play a factor when you're looking for an associate position. But when you go through four tough years of undergrad and another four tougher years of dental school, are you dreaming about working as an associate? I would be willing to bet that ult more than one or two years, anyway. Ultimately, most of you want to run your own practice. So once you start running your own show, who do you want to impress - your fellow dentists or your prospective patients, who fall under the category of just people in general? SDNers would agree that Stony Brook has a better reputation than NYU as a dental school. But the general public doesn't know about dental school reputation. But they sure know about the overall school reputation and the consensus is that NYU is more reputable and prestigious than Stony Brook, in general. This means that when your future patients go to your website and check out your CV, they'll be happier to see NYU on there than to see Stony Brook. This is why reputation of the school overall is more important than the specific dental reputation of school.

I know that there are other sub par overall schools that are good dental schools like University of the Pacific, University of Iowa, and University of Texas at San Antonio. But I would never ever attend any of those schools because they have absolutely no reputation as general schools overall. However, I would attend schools like USC, NYU, and Tufts that may not have as high of reputations in dentistry but that do have great overall reputations as prestigious schools in general.

I know some idiot is gonna respond to this whining about "your patients don't care where you went to school cuz i shadows a dentist and he said no one's ever asked him where he went." If you really believe that, go to Howard.

 

[happyasaclam88]

i think both points have their merits - obviously, what your patients think of your cv will be mad important in building a practice, but what if the "underrated" great d-schools make you a better clinician and more likely to retain them or impress them with your skills?
and if we're gonna be totally obnoxious, let's just say that it'd be better to go to one of those schools that has a great reputation in the "real world" and in the dental world, say ucla, ucsf, or an ivy?

whatevs. as long as you're in dental school, you get to be a dentist, and i'm pretty sure that's enough to make me happy professionally!

 

[preOMFS]

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but last I checked UCLA and UCSF had two of the top dental programs in the country.

 

[happyasaclam88]

that's what i'm saying - those are schools that are not only rockin for dentistry, but are well regarded even by those who don't know about which dental schools are great. so if mclovin is asking whether it's better to go to a less reputable dental school the general populace thinks is great or a great dental school people may not know about, i'm playing devil's advocate and saying there are some places with both. 🙄
and again, as far as i'm concerned, any dental school that let's you become a dentist passes muster with me!

 

[razblo]

This means that when your future patients go to your website and check out your CV, they'll be happier to see NYU on there than to see Stony Brook. This is why reputation of the school overall is more important than the specific dental reputation of school.

I know some idiot is gonna respond to this whining about "your patients don't care where you went to school cuz i shadows a dentist and he said no one's ever asked him where he went." If you really believe that, go to Howard.

1 - Dentists have websites?

2 - I couldn't care less where a doctor of any kind went to school because if you're smart enough to get into the school, pass your boards, and graduate from it then I'll take my chances that you're good enough to work on my teeth or whatever.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

that's what i'm saying - those are schools that are not only rockin for dentistry, but are well regarded even by those who don't know about which dental schools are great. so if mclovin is asking whether it's better to go to a less reputable dental school the general populace thinks is great or a great dental school people may not know about, i'm playing devil's advocate and saying there are some places with both. 🙄
and again, as far as i'm concerned, any dental school that let's you become a dentist passes muster with me!

How's that devil's advocate? My point is, the overall school reputation is just as important, if not more important than the dental school reputation. But the SDN Group Thinking says that it's the dental school reputation that matters. I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion here and you're jumping in here on some oh-you're-giving-me-option-of-choosing-speed-or-power-well-i-choose-both-how-about-now-teehee type of stuff.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

1 - Dentists have websites?

2 - I couldn't care less where a doctor of any kind went to school because if you're smart enough to get into the school, pass your boards, and graduate from it then I'll take my chances that you're good enough to work on my teeth or whatever.

1 - Are you serious?

2 - Go study for your gen bio final, you're clueless.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

True that patients believe that a USC degree is more reputable than a UoP degree. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that UoP provides a superior dental education to USC. That education carries with you to being an associate, and finally owning your own practice. Let's say that each step along the way, the UoP trained dentist does a better job, makes fewer mistakes, and produces more quality work. Word of mouth spreads fast, and can make or break a practice. And let's say that the USC trained dentist does a good job as well, but makes a few more mistakes than the other. "MY (USC) dentist screwed up my crown. I need to get it fixed. Maybe I should see a different dentist for that." "Oh, you should see my (UoP) dentist, he's great, never makes a mistake and does quality work." In this scenario, the UoP dentist will have more patients and more loyal patient base, which is worth more than a more reputable name on a piece of paper. The quality of the dentist, as an individual, is worth more than the perceived public reputation of the school name on the degree.

I'm not trying to pick on USC or say that it's a bad school and UoP is a great school, I just used the two schools because you mentioned them and because they are in the same state. The point is that people should go to the best school that they get into, whether it has a strong reputation in the general public or not.

Anyways, I'm tired of pointless threads and pointless arguments on SDN, just like you are McLovin. I think I will retire from these boards.. if y'all want to find me, send me a PM 😉

You theory is far-fetched. Dentists that build good reputations will make themselves and their practices more popular, not their alma maters. Plus, SDN Group Thinkers have hard time believing that the prospective patients are intelligent enough to go on the internet to pull up a dentist's CV or the fact that the dental school names even matter. So what are the chances that a patient will have a bad experience with a USC educated dentist and afterwards, tell others that USC dentists are insufficiently trained?

An average person, who will make up the majority of your patients, will believe that NYU is better than Stony Brook and that USC is better than U of the Pacific. If you went to Stony Brook, your patients will most likely not know that your DAT score was 3 points higher than the average at NYU and assume that your education was probably inferior to the NYU dentist.

All I'm saying is, when it comes to the issue of reputation, you gotta think about who matters more - the dentist who knows that Stony Brook has an excellent dental school and hire you over the NYU grad for an associate position, or the prospective patients who will have no idea that Stony Brook is a better dental school than NYU.

 

[adizzle87]

just curious mclovin, where are you going for dental school?

 

[Doctor McLovin]

just curious mclovin, where are you going for dental school?

I go to a school with a top overall reputation as well as dental reputation.

UConn is another dental school that is like Stony Brook. Great reputation as a dental school but overall reputation just sucks. When average person sees a dentist who has graduated from UConn, I don't think he will be impressed as much.

 

[razblo]

I go to a school with a top overall reputation as well as dental reputation.

UConn is another dental school that is like Stony Brook. Great reputation as a dental school but overall reputation just sucks. When average person sees a dentist who has graduated from UConn, I don't think he will be impressed as much.

Interesting...

 

[adizzle87]

Look, you know as well as I do that people on SDN (or rather active posters of SDN) aren't representative of the real world. Do I get annoyed when people make ridiculous biased statements? You betcha...but I don't go making angry posts and bash on schools. Replying is one thing, but making a post just to vent in this way is a little overrated.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

I'm not venting and I'm certainly not bashing any particular school. I'm challenging the SDN Group Thinking in that regards to the reputation of the school, the overall reputation is more important then dental school reputation. I just mentioned schools like Stony Brook, U of the Pacific, and UConn as examples.

 

[razblo]

I'm not venting and I'm certainly not bashing any particular school. I'm challenging the SDN Group Thinking in that regards to the reputation of the school, the overall reputation is more important then dental school reputation. I just mentioned schools like Stony Brook, U of the Pacific, and UConn as examples.

But do you really think people are going to say to themselves "Oh man, that guy only went to the University of Florida. I'm not wasting my time going to see him. I'm going to see the dentist that graduated from Harvard!".

My dentist went to the University of Iowa and I think he's great. By no means does it have any kind of great name recognition (at least that I'm aware of) like a Harvard, USC or a NYU but he's very personable which makes me feel comfortable going to see him and I've always been satisfied with the work he's done on me.

Some doctors may be better than others but just because you go to school at a place that has "great reputation" doesn't mean you'll be one of those better doctors.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

But do you really think people are going to say to themselves "Oh man, that guy only went to the University of Florida. I'm not wasting my time going to see him. I'm going to see the dentist that graduated from Harvard!".

My dentist went to the University of Iowa and I think he's great. By no means does it have any kind of great name recognition (at least that I'm aware of) like a Harvard, USC or a NYU but he's very personable which makes me feel comfortable going to see him and I've always been satisfied with the work he's done on me.

Some doctors may be better than others but just because you go to school at a place that has "great reputation" doesn't mean you'll be one of those better doctors.

I'm not saying that the reputation of the school will be the most important factor for patients, far from it. But when you're deciding on where to go to dental school, reputation is one of the many factors that you will put into the equation. I'm simply saying that when you consider this reputation, think about the school's overall reputation versus just the dental school reputation. I think University of Iowa is one of those schools that are highly regarded in the dental world but one that no one cares about outside of the dental world. Schools like that, Stony Brook, and U of the Pacific have no name recognition outside of the dental world. Schools that have worse reputation in the dental word like USC, NYU, and Tufts have much better overall reputation because of thier prestigious undergraduate and other graduate programs. People in general, who will make up the majority of your patients, will be more impressed with USC, NYU, or Tufts dentist than U of Iowa, Stony Brook, or U of the Pacific dentists.

SDN Group Thinkers praise schools that have great dental reputation but no so good overall reputation. I think that's wrong and that's why I'm challenging it. You have to make your own decision but you should be informed about both sides of the argument. SDN Group Thinkers make this difficult by spamming their delusional beliefs.

 

[rewJW]

True story: the orthodontist (we'll say Dr. X) that works at my office went to Harvard for dental & ortho residency. Another assistant and I were talking to a patient's mother when she was there for a recall. She told us that she had gotten her son's braces taken off early because she was going elsewhere because "Dr. X is an idiot and has no idea what he's doing." To this the other assistant responded, "Oh no, he's a very bright man, and really well trained, he went to Harvard." The pt's parent said "I don't care if he went to school on the moon, he's still an (insert expletive) and he ain't gettin' my money."

Take what you want from that story.

 

[DrReo]

Dear My Fellow SDNers,

I wanted to make this thread and challenge some of the group thinking that has plagued the SDN Pre-Dental forum. People have made unfounded statements, which was followed by more people quoting them and agreeing with them or repeating them. This has turned these theories into laws and anyone who doesn't follow them into idiots.

Doctor McLovin's 1st challenge:

The reputation of the school among people in dentistry is more important than the reputation of the school among people in general.

There are some legitimate reasons that back this. It is true that the reputation of the school among dentists will be important because it'll certainly play a factor when you're looking for an associate position. But when you go through four tough years of undergrad and another four tougher years of dental school, are you dreaming about working as an associate? I would be willing to bet that ult more than one or two years, anyway. Ultimately, most of you want to run your own practice. So once you start running your own show, who do you want to impress - your fellow dentists or your prospective patients, who fall under the category of just people in general? SDNers would agree that Stony Brook has a better reputation than NYU as a dental school. But the general public doesn't know about dental school reputation. But they sure know about the overall school reputation and the consensus is that NYU is more reputable and prestigious than Stony Brook, in general. This means that when your future patients go to your website and check out your CV, they'll be happier to see NYU on there than to see Stony Brook. This is why reputation of the school overall is more important than the specific dental reputation of school.

I know that there are other sub par overall schools that are good dental schools like University of the Pacific, University of Iowa, and University of Texas at San Antonio. But I would never ever attend any of those schools because they have absolutely no reputation as general schools overall. However, I would attend schools like USC, NYU, and Tufts that may not have as high of reputations in dentistry but that do have great overall reputations as prestigious schools in general.

I know some idiot is gonna respond to this whining about "your patients don't care where you went to school cuz i shadows a dentist and he said no one's ever asked him where he went." If you really believe that, go to Howard.

What personal experience do you have to state that?

 

[gryffindor]

I go to a school with a top overall reputation as well as dental reputation.

UConn is another dental school that is like Stony Brook. Great reputation as a dental school but overall reputation just sucks. When average person sees a dentist who has graduated from UConn, I don't think he will be impressed as much.

Lots of average and elite people love basketball and therefore usually have a lot to say when they hear UConn. Average people like practitioners they can relate to and would much rather see the guy/gal who will discuss the merits of UConn basketball with them rather than the cookie cutter robo-doc from Penn who wants to discuss NY Times headlines. Average and elite people have no idea if that restoration you put in has intact margins and beautiful anatomy, but they will remember if that injection hurt or if the doc had a rough personality. They will like you better if you related to them and made them feel comfortable therefore in this case, being a Husky will give you an advantage over being a Quaker.

 

[Oracle DMD]

McLovin, you're right...sort of. yes the average joe out there will say that USC, NYU, and UCONN (they got a sick basketball team which puts them on the radar) are better dental schools than pacific, stony brook, or utsa. It is also true that the group thought is that the more competitive schools to get into are the better schools to go to. but the reality is that you are overestimating the importance of school name (recognition) while your opposition overestimates the difference in going to a "top tier" school.

what both sides need to take into account for their arguement is this : 1. where you go to school will not make you a better dentist neccesarily 2. being a better technical dentist will not get you more patients/ will not make you more or less successful of a buisness owner.

the most successful dentists out there are NOT the dentists with the best handskills or the best education. they are the best buisnessmen(and women) who are also good at dentistry. now, i'm using the conventional definition of success so yes if your goal is to get into a "top tier" program then you will be more successful if you accomplish your goal. but let us use success in the "by convention" way in terms of buisness.

 

[preOMFS]

How's that devil's advocate? My point is, the overall school reputation is just as important, if not more important than the dental school reputation. But the SDN Group Thinking says that it's the dental school reputation that matters. I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion here and you're jumping in here on some oh-you're-giving-me-option-of-choosing-speed-or-power-well-i-choose-both-how-about-now-teehee type of stuff.

Really?? Could have fooled me.

 

[armorshell]

The problem you're having is that you're transferring your own values onto the population at large. While you yourself are feloniously concerned with things like reputation, ranking and prestige, as you've pointed out yourself many times, average people don't. Your average patient will have gone to a state school (or maybe not even college at all!) and are likely more interested in the services you provide, cost of treatment, availibility of parking, attractiveness of your hygienists, location of your practice relative to their house, amount of pain cause by your injections, size of the flat screens in your waiting room, etc...

I'm not saying for some people the school that you went to isn't on that list somewhere, it's just outcompeted by more important things.

Now there's literally no information on this in the literature (and there probably never will be), so this discussion will lie in the realm of completely theoretical, subjective and anecdotal. I'm certain you can find a few anecdotes from dentists who attribute their success to the reputation of their dental school, but I'll challenge you to find someone who attribute their failure to the lack of reputation of their dental school. If your scenario is true, this should be a fairly common occurrence in very competitive areas of the country.

 

[armorshell]

You theory is far-fetched. Dentists that build good reputations will make themselves and their practices more popular, not their alma maters. Plus, SDN Group Thinkers have hard time believing that the prospective patients are intelligent enough to go on the internet to pull up a dentist's CV or the fact that the dental school names even matter. So what are the chances that a patient will have a bad experience with a USC educated dentist and afterwards, tell others that USC dentists are insufficiently trained?

An average person, who will make up the majority of your patients, will believe that NYU is better than Stony Brook and that USC is better than U of the Pacific. If you went to Stony Brook, your patients will most likely not know that your DAT score was 3 points higher than the average at NYU and assume that your education was probably inferior to the NYU dentist.

You've seriously misread/misunderstood somthinpositiv's post. Try reading it a few more times.

Additionally, you might be way off base if the dentist is practicing in Long Island. If a dentist is practicing in Seattle, do you think they'd favor a USC dentist or a UW graduate? A Columbia grad might have a hard time vs. a MUSC grad if their patients think they graduated from Columbia Community College.

All I'm saying is, when it comes to the issue of reputation, you gotta think about who matters more - the dentist who knows that Stony Brook has an excellent dental school and hire you over the NYU grad for an associate position, or the prospective patients who will have no idea that Stony Brook is a better dental school than NYU.

What if we're talking about a specialist who relies primarily on referrals? Does the situation reverse then? I wonder how many times a dentist has referred a patient to a specialist and the patient said "Wait do, where did Dr. X go to school?"

I might agree with you that, assuming a dentist owns their own practice, that the schools reputation might be of greater importance in the patients eyes than in other dentists eyes. Of course, I mean that in the same way I mean 100000001 is a larger number than 100000000.

 

[a1pha]

Lets see... I completely agree with oracle that the best dentists are the best businessmen regardless of school. Before deciding on dentistry I was shadowing several dentists and physicians and the most successful dentist I shadowed was thriving off his business skills. He had amazing local publicity not to mention SMOKIN hot assistants. Anyway, SDN has a handful of great posters but to be honest, its group thought is absolutely idiotic and erroneous. The best advice I could give someone on the board is to find a real life mentor or start PMing one of the good posters because I'm frightened to consider what a lurker would take away from here. I'm pretty sure the biggest occurrence of this said public perception conundrum occurs with NYU to be honest. All my close friends are doing law and one got into NYU law a few months back and I was kinda like "uhh..cool? congrats for getting into a law school..." not realizing NYU law is like 5th in the nation. It really does suck that places with actual good schools like stony brook and pacific don't have any street cred cuz the undergrads aren't prominent. Btw, mclovin goes to columbia to whoever asked.

 

[setdoc7]

Now we're getting somewhere, Hot hygienists and smokin hot assistants!LOL But seriously, I think this entire discussion has gotten way out of hand. Having the opportunity to meet and greet numerous 4th year dental students who have applied to my program from all over the country and Canada (our friendly neighbor to the north), I can say without question that this argument about school reputation has little merit. I have met and worked with both great and not so great residents and attendings from lots of different schools. No one has the lock on graduating great dentists. And no school has an inpermeable reputation. Further, dental school gives you only the very basic clinical and interpersonal skills it takes to be a "great" dentist. It really takes about 10 years to get things together after school and learn all the things school does not have enought time to teach......and....it takes (pardon my use of this word) PRACTICE. Anyone who thinks they are coming right out of school with the same set of skills as someone who has been out a while is naive. In the old days, when dentistry was much simpler (40 years ago) it was easy to graduate and start a practice with no additional training. And anyone who thinks that any one set of schools can routinely produce superior practitioners is welcome to sit with me at interviews this fall....a real eye opener.

 

[setdoc7]

Perhaps not sit at interviews, but you get the point

 

[Doctor McLovin]

WE ARE DISCUSSING THE EFFECTS OF THE REPUTATION OF THE DENTAL SCHOOL. STOP MENTIONING IRRELEVANT THINGS LIKE PERSONAL/SOCIAL SKILLS AND BUSINESS SENSE THAT MAKE SOMEONE SUCCESSFUL. STICK TO THE SUBJECT.

I'm not a crafty multi-quoter like armorshell so please excuse my cluttered sporadic reply.

rewJW, am I really taking the time to discuss this garbage? What the hell does his having a bad personality have anything to do with his educational background. Like the patient said, it would not have mattered where he went to school. I'm just talking about considering the reputation of the school when one is choosing a dental school. You have to hold the other variables. With all other things being equal, a patient will gravitate towards a dentist with a USC resume than the one with a Loma Linda resume.

gryffindor, you must still be sensitive about our discussion of elites. No where in my thread did I even mention the word elite. But you're just like rewJW, talking about irrelavnt crap. I agree with you that it would be helpful for a dentist to be social and relate to the patient and talk about sports. We have NBA, NFL, and MLB for that and besdies, the school you went to has nothing to do with your ability to do that. If your patient is at your practice, then your school name and CV doesn't matter at that point. It's getting those prospective patients to come to your office and for that I believe your school name and CV does matter. No patient in his or right mind would choose the USC dentist so he or she can come talk about the SC quarterback that'll replace Mark Sanchez.

Oracle DMD, I'm glad that you see my point. I disagree with and I think it does matter where you go to school. But that's another Group Thinking that I will write about in the future.

armorshell, you're the third person to talk about irrelevant things. What you said is true, but in discussing the effect of the school's reputation, we have to hold the other variables to be the same. I'm not talking about what makes a successful dentist; I'm talking about the effects of your school's reputation. Yes, to the patients in the state of Washington, a UW dentist will look more impressive than a USC dentist. But how about at the rest of the lower 48? USC has a better reputation throughout the country than UW. Patients in general will be more impressed with a USC CV than a UW CV.

a1pha, I have to admit that I was a victim to SDN Group Thinking as well. I crossed off UPenn off my list way quicker than I shold have. Althuogh I would not have gone there, I think UPenn is one of the best dental schools in the country if not the best. Same thing with NYU. The amount of hate that those two schools get on SDN is ridiculous. They need to each hire an armorshell equivalent to come on SDN and fight for justice.

 

[armorshell]

armorshell, you're the third person to talk about irrelevant things. What you said is true, but in discussing the effect of the school's reputation, we have to hold the other variables to be the same. I'm not talking about what makes a successful dentist; I'm talking about the effects of your school's reputation. Yes, to the patients in the state of Washington, a UW dentist will look more impressive than a USC dentist. But how about at the rest of the lower 48? USC has a better reputation throughout the country than UW. Patients in general will be more impressed with a USC CV than a UW CV.

I see you're having trouble with the multi quote thing, so I'll quote the rest of my post that you ignored so you can have a chance to read it again, since it more or less addresses everything you mentioned.

What if we're talking about a specialist who relies primarily on referrals? Does the situation reverse then? I wonder how many times a dentist has referred a patient to a specialist and the patient said "Wait do, where did Dr. X go to school?"

I might agree with you that, assuming a dentist owns their own practice, that the schools reputation might be of greater importance in the patients eyes than in other dentists eyes. Of course, I mean that in the same way I mean 100000001 is a larger number than 100000000.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

Specialists are exceptions to this rule because they rely on other dentists, who are in the dental world and know that garbage schools like Stony Brook and UoP have good dental programs.

Everything else being equal, a lay person will think that the USC dentist is better than the UoP dental because USC as an overall institution trumps U of the Pacific.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Specialists are exceptions to this rule because they rely on other dentists, who are in the dental world and know that garbage schools like Stony Brook and UoP have good dental programs.

Everything else being equal, a lay person will think that the USC dentist is better than the UoP dental because USC as an overall institution trumps U of the Pacific.

so the question is where, by your calculation, a person who is accepted to only uop, usc, and stony brook should go? do you go where patients think is the better school, where you think the better school is, or where your collegues think the better school is? ...for the sake of aguement you do not plan on specializing. the cheapest school is probly the right answer in almost any case. why? because ego aside, (yours, your ignorant patient, or your gassed up collegues) it doesn't make enough of a difference, so the only logical decision is cheapest/ best location in your opinion based on weather, family proximity or whatever.

 

[Doctor McLovin]

so the question is where, by your calculation, a person who is accepted to only uop, usc, and stony brook should go? do you go where patients think is the better school, where you think the better school is, or where your collegues think the better school is? ...for the sake of aguement you do not plan on specializing. the cheapest school is probly the right answer in almost any case. why? because ego aside, (yours, your ignorant patient, or your gassed up collegues) it doesn't make enough of a difference, so the only logical decision is cheapest/ best location in your opinion based on weather, family proximity or whatever.

That's going to depend on how much one values different factors like curriculum, cost, weather, proximity, and etc. I just hate seeing all the SDN Group Thinkers regurgitate the same garbage "laws of choosing a dental school" and making other believe what they read is 100% true. I only made this thread to challenge the SDN Group Thinkers - when one considers the reputation of the school to be one of the factors that go into choosing a dental school, one should be more concerned with the school's overall reputation rather than the school's dental program reputation.

I made zero comments about being personable or having a good business sense or any other traits that are essential in becoming a successful dentist.

 

[4thMolar]

I don't really see the point of this thread. What exactly were you expecting to hear from us? What do you suggest we do, not apply to schools like UoP or Stony Brook? In the end, it's not going to matter which dental school you graduated from, there will still be people everywhere who need dental care and you will have a good patient base and be successful.

 

[Oracle DMD]

That's going to depend on how much one values different factors like curriculum, cost, weather, proximity, and etc. I just hate seeing all the SDN Group Thinkers regurgitate the same garbage "laws of choosing a dental school" and making other believe what they read is 100% true. I only made this thread to challenge the SDN Group Thinkers - when one considers the reputation of the school to be one of the factors that go into choosing a dental school, one should be more concerned with the school's overall reputation rather than the school's dental program reputation.

I made zero comments about being personable or having a good business sense or any other traits that are essential in becoming a successful dentist.

i like your thought process, people should be able to defend their thinking on an issue. but i don't really see school reputation being a big deal unless their reputation is for not graduating dentists on time in which case it would be a huge deal. i agree with your position that if it is being considered as a factor then the whole instituion's rep should be weighed in i suppose. but if which school has the better football team or basketball squad is a real factor then logic probly isn't your strong suit to begin with and you might be chasing a little ego.

 

[a1pha]

I have to admit that I was a victim to SDN Group Thinking as well. I crossed off UPenn off my list way quicker than I shold have. Althuogh I would not have gone there, I think UPenn is one of the best dental schools in the country if not the best. Same thing with NYU. The amount of hate that those two schools get on SDN is ridiculous. They need to each hire an armorshell equivalent to come on SDN and fight for justice.

Yeah it's absurd that SDN has their anti-UPenn mindset. After my interview I was fairly set on attending there if I got in. It seemed like a sick school with an even sicker student body. There actually was an armorshell equivalent for UPenn named whlee or something? but he approached it poorly and just got torn to pieces by jocking the school a little too hard. The anti-xxx school movements are just a sad byproduct of an anonymous message board where rejects can vent their frustrations.

 

[gryffindor]

gryffindor, you must still be sensitive about our discussion of elites. No where in my thread did I even mention the word elite. But you're just like rewJW, talking about irrelavnt crap. I agree with you that it would be helpful for a dentist to be social and relate to the patient and talk about sports. We have NBA, NFL, and MLB for that and besdies, the school you went to has nothing to do with your ability to do that. If your patient is at your practice, then your school name and CV doesn't matter at that point. It's getting those prospective patients to come to your office and for that I believe your school name and CV does matter. No patient in his or right mind would choose the USC dentist so he or she can come talk about the SC quarterback that'll replace Mark Sanchez.

This discussion is not new on SDN. Few patients will choose you based on where you went to school. There are some dentists out there who advertise they are "Harvard trained." Certain communities eat the reputation thing up (Asians?). I would bet that the Howard trained dentists in those communities are not starving either since success of a dental practice mostly comes from all the other factors you don't want to discuss (like being a smart business person). I'm too lazy to look for an article, but I know dental practice consultants do surveys of patients all the time to figure out the main factors that drive them to choose dentist A over dentist B. Reputation of the doctor's dental school is very low on that list so that's why your discussion isn't really going anywhere. It's a very minor factor in a patient's decision to choose a dentist.

 

[PDizzle]

I've read all the arguments and replies so I'll just throw mine out there...

I'm saying this in terms of a potential student thinking about what school to go to.

To summarize: The long term difference in reputation of the school you went to is dwarfed by so many other things, the argument about it becomes moot.

Example #1: The "advantage" you get from going to USC over a state school with less popular rep is evaporated when you make your loan repayments every month.

Example #2: Basically everything Armor said in his first post.

I'm not saying school rep counts for nothing but it is no where near as important as predents think. Remember, most patients don't care. Ask a bunch of practicing dentists..they will tell you the same thing.

As for your basic statement: "The rep that your patients perceive is more important than what people in the field think", I would, in general, agree with you. However, since your patients will not care where you went to school, this argument becomes moot and IMO not be weighed very much when deciding where to attend dental school.

 

[armorshell]

I made zero comments about being personable or having a good business sense or any other traits that are essential in becoming a successful dentist.

No, you took a hotbed issue and defined the terms as such that no reasonable person could disagree, despite the fact that the premise of your argument has no basis in reality. There is no such thing as "all other things being equal."