IDMTs

[Perrotfish]

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Related question for the Navy guys, can an IDC's first job be somewhere with a ship/battalion with no physician? Or do we always allow them a tour or two where they are in the same building with an actual doctor before putting them on a sub/destroyer?

 

[pgg]

I beg to differ, the system is not fine.

My god, you have poor reading comprehension skills. There I was, giving you the benefit of the doubt, acknowledging your honorable service under less-than-ideal conditions.

Indeed, the system is not fine.

Never claimed to be a doctor, never claimed experience replaces what doctors must go through to achieve MD.

Say what? That was the entire essence of your initial stream-of-consciousness rant!

Do you not remember writing it? Let's review.


Here you are starting off with a Bad Doctor story:

Had four years of high risk OB experience. Was a scrub tech on an emergency C-section and the 4th year resident cut the woman's bowel that required a bowel resection and hysterectomy after she developed coagulopathy and the senior attending had to come in and repair it. She lost her residency. My experience after a 6 hour surgery was draining because I had NEVER done any surgery assistance coming close to that. Had limited training on instruments albeit 2 weeks in OR having nothing to do with OB.

Here you are with a Bad Medical Student story, and a personal superiority story:

Watched medical student break bag with thick meconium on baby and he had no clue that heart rate was non-existant on Doppler. I was a tech and took it upon myself to yell down the hall to prepare for C-section because he didn't try to put electrode on head.

Here you are extolling the rigor and virtue of your 4 months of training:

IDMT school was intense and it was 8-5 mon-fri for 4 months. My experience was already suturing, casting, IM injections, medication administration, breathing treatments. First deployment as IDMT? Somalia. Daunting?

Here you are in a semi-literate fashion School O' Hard Knock'ing it:

Experience goes ALOT farther than you think and trust me that my training was no where close to what it needed to be to do the job expected of me.

Wait ... didn't you just say ...

Never claimed to be a doctor, never claimed experience replaces what doctors must go through to achieve MD.

... oh yeah, that.


Here you are in a semi-literate fashion giving **** to a forum full of people who have likely deployed more times in the last 10 years, to more dangerous places, than your retired-in-2004 happy-go-lucky self probably ever did in your entire career:

Unless your willing to deploy to ****holes and do the job then by all means deploy.

Here you are spouting some nonsense about how you'd like to see a pharmacist (?!?) doing primary care in the field:

Now I want that pharmacist to go out in the field with his education and see patients, examine, diagnose, differential diagnosis, and treat with limited equipment or drugs.

Here you are in a semi-literate fashion doing some chest thumping, declaring "no harm" when you're gloriously unqualified to even know if that's true or not:

I am comfortable with my twenty year career as an uneducated provider of patient care because I had too and I harmed no one.

Here you are (again) with another Bad Doctor anecdote neatly tied with a lookit-what-I-did-ma addendum:

diagnosed appendicitis on patient after two visits with a DOCTOR, and assisted with his surgery to remove it.

More chest thumping:

Assisted with anencephalics, hydrocephalus, quadruplets, diabetic emergencies, dental emergencies, put temporary fillings, checked water samples, food inspections, Gram stains, urine tests, performed hematocrits,, assisted with pap smears, minor surgeries, removed toenails, packed wounds, trained in medications, head to toe exams, EMT, ACLS, CPR instructed, Ambulance Instructor, IVs, chest tubes. Assisted with sigmoidoscopies, ent, urology and minor surgeries, orthopedic and internal medicine.

And here you are, one more time, bitching about terrible doctors and downplaying education:

I've seen my share of ****ty doctors regardless of education.

You show up on a physician forum, angry and nearly incoherent. The first thing you do is necrobump a NINE YEAR OLD thread, for the purpose of bitching and moaning about physicians.


You ...

Just ...

Go away.

 

[d2305]

I went to a ddg straight out of IDC school in Portsmouth, VA. I had already been on a carrier and shore duty. One had to be an IDC prior to applying to PA school at that time. I got accepted after 4 years on a ddg2.

 

[Idmt]

My god, you have poor reading comprehension skills. There I was, giving you the benefit of the doubt, acknowledging your honorable service under less-than-ideal conditions.

Indeed, the system is not fine.



Say what? That was the entire essence of your initial stream-of-consciousness rant!

Do you not remember writing it? Let's review.


Here you are starting off with a Bad Doctor story:




Here you are with a Bad Medical Student story, and a personal superiority story:




Here you are extolling the rigor and virtue of your 4 months of training:




Here you are in a semi-literate fashion School O' Hard Knock'ing it:



Wait ... didn't you just say ...


... oh yeah, that.


Here you are in a semi-literate fashion giving **** to a forum full of people who have likely deployed more times in the last 10 years, to more dangerous places, than your retired-in-2004 happy-go-lucky self probably ever did in your entire career:




Here you are spouting some nonsense about how you'd like to see a pharmacist (?!?) doing primary care in the field:




Here you are in a semi-literate fashion doing some chest thumping, declaring "no harm" when you're gloriously unqualified to even know if that's true or not:




Here you are (again) with another Bad Doctor anecdote neatly tied with a lookit-what-I-did-ma addendum:




More chest thumping:




And here you are, one more time, bitching about terrible doctors and downplaying education:




You show up on a physician forum, angry and nearly incoherent. The first thing you do is necrobump a NINE YEAR OLD thread, for the purpose of bitching and moaning about physicians.


You ...

Just ...

Go away.

Thanks for the rant doctor. Now what are YOU doing about it? Apparently unethical standards are also placed on military doctors? Bitching about doctors and medical students? Examples suck, I know. The fact is IDMT's exist, continue to exist and work in austere environments to this day. Nothing will change it unless the climate changes. So stomp your feet, throw a fit, degrade, insult all you want. Do I agree with the practice? No. Choice? No. Next?

 

[Shikima]

 

[deleted480308]

Aren't qualified to do? AF says I was. You in the military?

The government's opinion of your qualifications is completely irrelevant to your actual qualifications...and yes

And you are embarassing yourself

 

[Gastrapathy]

Perrotfish,

IDCs go through a year long program but more than half of it is about admin. The clinical part is really short.

G

 

[Idmt]

The government's opinion of your qualifications is completely irrelevant to your actual qualifications...and yes

And you are embarassing yourself

Sb,
Thank you. Damn I was so worried. If I got your response correct, you will not be precepting IDMT's, IDC's, PA's, or NP's after you are in the military as an MD? Or is that just IDMT's and IDC's? You will not put your license in jeapordy due to "unethical, substandard, non-educated, personnel" taking care of your patients? Just want to be clear about your intentions and future? Here's the rub. I have worked with say a dozen or so MD's in the military as an IDMT. Probably 100 or more in my career. The "government's opinion" on what an IDMT, or IDC's responsibilities include do not surpass your ethical responsibilities to your patients and their safety. You are stating that you will not participate in that training and refuse? Clear up any misconceptions would you? You seem to have the answers. Last I checked I had ZERO MD's refusing to mentor, precept, or outright decline to participate. Amazing right? Most were accommodating, willing to share knowledge, experience and knew we had no formal education in regards to patient care. I see a whole bunch of BS on here but as of yet nobody steps up? I guess your the first. Tell me how that works out for you. It's easy, just say no.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Opening mouth and removing all doubt ^^^

 

[Idmt]

Opening mouth and removing all doubt ^^^

Yes your right thanks you proved my point.

 

[Idmt]

Just say no. It's easy

 

[idq1i]

Just say no. It's easy

I nominate you for the next surgeon general. If a nurse can....

 

[Idmt]

I nominate you for the next surgeon general. If a nurse can....

I forgot to mention my nurse story. I will give you the short version. Patient was covered in diesel fuel c/o burning to upper torso and burning eyes. My doc was not present. I stripped him down gave copious amounts of saline with our nurses present. Asked them to continue with the saline and contacted the army Doc few miles away. While I'm doing this the nurse decides the patient has had blistering to the eyes. No he didn't I examined him. I hear screaming from outside the tent. The nurse decided he needed to lubricate his eyes with surgilube because he thought his eyelids were sticking. Lmfao.. I got pissed yanked the tube out of his hands poured untold amount of saline and got chopper in. Ohhhhhh wait, more chest thumping. Could have swore I heard that somewhere else? Oh yes the docs on here have deployed more than I ever thought of in my happy go lucky career. No chest thumping there?

 

[Idmt]

I nominate you for the next surgeon general. If a nurse can....

Thank you but I'm too busy with all of my brain surgeries I have scheduled due to my experience in the field. It's hard but somebody has to do it. Thanks for the mentoring. I feel confident I can do it.

 

[idq1i]

Is that story like in Inception the movie - a dream within a dream, or was it just a wet dream?

 

[Idmt]

My god, you have poor reading comprehension skills. There I was, giving you the benefit of the doubt, acknowledging your honorable service under less-than-ideal conditions.

Indeed, the system is not fine.



Say what? That was the entire essence of your initial stream-of-consciousness rant!

Do you not remember writing it? Let's review.


Here you are starting off with a Bad Doctor story:




Here you are with a Bad Medical Student story, and a personal superiority story:




Here you are extolling the rigor and virtue of your 4 months of training:




Here you are in a semi-literate fashion School O' Hard Knock'ing it:



Wait ... didn't you just say ...


... oh yeah, that.


Here you are in a semi-literate fashion giving **** to a forum full of people who have likely deployed more times in the last 10 years, to more dangerous places, than your retired-in-2004 happy-go-lucky self probably ever did in your entire career:




Here you are spouting some nonsense about how you'd like to see a pharmacist (?!?) doing primary care in the field:




Here you are in a semi-literate fashion doing some chest thumping, declaring "no harm" when you're gloriously unqualified to even know if that's true or not:




Here you are (again) with another Bad Doctor anecdote neatly tied with a lookit-what-I-did-ma addendum:




More chest thumping:




And here you are, one more time, bitching about terrible doctors and downplaying education:




You show up on a physician forum, angry and nearly incoherent. The first thing you do is necrobump a NINE YEAR OLD thread, for the purpose of bitching and moaning about physicians.


You ...

Just ...

Go away.

Is that story like in Inception the movie - a dream within a dream, or was it just a wet dream?

Incoherent? Saline is technically wet. Freud may have fun with you.

 

[Idmt]

Sb? You seem to be quiet? Anytime your ready, gather your thoughts. Reply at your leisure. Frantically type on google and let me know what your response is. Wet dreams aside and real world scenarios.

 

[pgg]

 

[pgg]

Related question for the Navy guys, can an IDC's first job be somewhere with a ship/battalion with no physician? Or do we always allow them a tour or two where they are in the same building with an actual doctor before putting them on a sub/destroyer?

One of the IDCs I worked with when I was a GMO was an ex-submarine IDC. I think he went straight to the sub, but I'm not sure.

I do know he was involuntarily PCS'd away from that job early over some concerns regarding his practice, so there must've been some supervision or oversight. Or at least chart review after the fact. To hear his side of it, no one was harmed, he was just treated unfairly, but I don't know the objective truth of it all. He was a good IDC for us, though he had some struggles leading and working with the Corpsmen.

 

[Idmt]

How long it take you to look that one up? C'mon you can do better, after all it is all about the patient.

 

[Idmt]

That is the discussion no? License? Where is that damn medical student? Just wish I could pick his brain on issues. He seems so intelligent.

 

[Perrotfish]

One of the IDCs I worked with when I was a GMO was an ex-submarine IDC. I think he went straight to the sub, but I'm not sure.

I do know he was involuntarily PCS'd away from that job early over some concerns regarding his practice, so there must've been some supervision or oversight. Or at least chart review after the fact. To hear his side of it, no one was harmed, he was just treated unfairly, but I don't know the objective truth of it all. He was a good IDC for us, though he had some struggles leading and working with the Corpsmen.

I wonder what percentage of IDC billets are truly independent in the sub/ship sense, what percentage practice independently, but in a building with physicians, and what percentage involve real direct supervision by an actual physician. Does anyone know?

This thread makes me wonder if it would be possible to create a kind of pseudo-residency education for IDCs. We certainly have enough small MTF non-academic sites that would be happy for both the help and the opportunity to teach. We could make truly independent practice on ships and subs something they can only do after at least one tour of supervised practice.

It also makes me wonder if IDCs make sense at all in an era of NPs and PAs. Now that we have a civilian standard of care for midlevel practice, and many of our best IDCs are getting siphoned off into that pathway anyway, does it really make sense to maintain an enlisted pseudo-midlevel medical training pathway? This poster has also brought up the serious concern that a lot of our enlisted don't feel comfortable saying no to anything. Is it really reasonable to have a ship's medical staff headed by someone who feels uncomfortable saying no?

 

[Idmt]

I wonder what percentage of IDC billets are truly independent, what percentage practice independently, but in a building with physicians, and what percentage involve real direct supervision by an actual physician. Does anyone know?

This thread makes me wonder if it would be possible to create a kind of pseudo-residency education for IDCs. We certainly have enough small MTF non-academic sites that would be happy for both the help and the opportunity to teach. We could make truly independent practice on ships and subs something they can only do after at least one tour of supervised practice.

It also makes me wonder if IDCs make sense at all in an era of NPs and PAs. Now that we have a civilian standard of care for midlevel practice, and many of our best IDCs are getting siphoned off into that pathway anyway, does it really make sense to maintain an enlisted pseudo-midlevel medical training pathway? This poster has also brought up the serious concern that a lot of our enlisted don't feel comfortable saying no to anything. Is that really who you want as the most senior medical person on a ship?

You are completely wrong in that sense. Saying no is the norm. The JA that put a needle in a knee is the outrageous part. In no way does it reflect on others doing the job "thinking it's ok". As I have said and continue to say there is NO replacement for a DOCTOR to see patients. The point is that MD's have to decide what they will and will not do. Yes I told you of horror stories from residents, medical students, nurses. All true. We as technicians know that we are not the doctor or even close to it. The poster you are talking about is me. It's not personal until the term unethical, uneducated, or cowboy is brought up. We work under the guidance and direction of an MD..

 

[Idmt]

If you are going to blame anyone then how about the ones who created it, developed it and continue to nurture it? Your an MD, I'm a technician. You can blame us for ALOT of things and we have to rely on our experience to do the job but no formal education. I will fight you tooth and nail about who's in charge and who is making the decisions. Guess who?

 

[deleted480308]

It also makes me wonder if IDCs make sense at all in an era of NPs and PAs. Now that we have a civilian standard of care for midlevel practice, and many of our best IDCs are getting siphoned off into that pathway anyway, does it really make sense to maintain an enlisted pseudo-midlevel medical training pathway? This poster has also brought up the serious concern that a lot of our enlisted don't feel comfortable saying no to anything. Is it really reasonable to have a ship's medical staff headed by someone who feels uncomfortable saying no?

No, they don't. If we're going to place a group of soldiers in situations where they don't have access to a doctor, it would be far better to provide them with someone who is better trained. But I think the question here really comes down to money. The reason we don't have a physician with all those groups of soldiers if the lack of desire to pay one. So they give a much less expensive enlisted soldier an abbreviated course that they hope will allow that person enough knowledge to not ruin anything. If they drop a PA or a nurse in that role, they still have to drop another officer paycheck. It's a messed up situation to place someone in the spot where they are expected to provide a level of service they are untrained to do. It's messed up for the person being asked to the work and it's messed up for those that have to depend on the work being done.

If they didn't have enough actual trained pilots to go around so we started having a few sergeants take a month or two and play with some simulators on their pc before telling a squad to pile into a helicopter so that sergeant could fly them around......it would be wrong. I don't see this as any different.

 

[j4pac]

IDMT...

 

[Idmt]

No, they don't. If we're going to place a group of soldiers in situations where they don't have access to a doctor, it would be far better to provide them with someone who is better trained. But I think the question here really comes down to money. The reason we don't have a physician with all those groups of soldiers if the lack of desire to pay one. So they give a much less expensive enlisted soldier an abbreviated course that they hope will allow that person enough knowledge to not ruin anything. If they drop a PA or a nurse in that role, they still have to drop another officer paycheck. It's a messed up situation to place someone in the spot where they are expected to provide a level of service they are untrained to do. It's messed up for the person being asked to the work and it's messed up for those that have to depend on the work being done.

If they didn't have enough actual trained pilots to go around so we started having a few sergeants take a month or two and play with some simulators on their pc before telling a squad to pile into a helicopter so that sergeant could fly them around......it would be wrong. I don't see this as any different.

Well said!!

 

[Idmt]

IDMT...

Lmao

 

[idq1i]

I will fight you tooth and nail about who's in charge and who is making the decisions. Guess who?

As a division chief, I wish you were working in my department, and with that attitude. I'd have a lot of fun. At your expense.

 

[Idmt]

As a division chief, I wish you were working in my department, and with that attitude. I'd have a lot of fun. At your expense.

That attitude? The statement was that the doctor is in charge and he/she is making the decisions not the other way around. I would take you up on your offer but you are 11 years too late. We could always do lunch and I assure you it wouldn't be at my expense.

 

[met19]

Alright I decided finally to say something on this resuscitated thread....Worked with many IDC's but I will relate 2 stories:

1) I was OIC of our STP in the 'stan and my IDC was great. Knew what to do, when to do it and perhaps the most important knew when to ask for assistance. (though I watched with a close eye). Gave him a ton of procedures. He did well and is currently retired, and I was proud to write a letter of rec for 1st civ div PA school

2) When I was at another location in the 'stan the Marine Bn surgeon was a PA (former IDC) who bullied the GMO into giving him the role (both were equal rank). The PA was a former sub IDC senior chief- all sorts of screwed up. He decided to go out on a patrol with part of the BN. Asked me as OIC of the STP to give him succ and etomidate to tube patients in the field. I politely told him no. He got all pissy and asked what would happen in a Marine who steps on an IED needs to be intubated. My reply: If they are that screwed up that they need to be tubed, a) it should be easy b/c they are gorked and b) if its not easy, I'd rather have the flight paramedic with >100 tubes or myself when they arrive do it rather than you with 10. I made my nurse count my meds prior to the patrol role out and after to make sure he didn't steal any because he would've tried it he had the opportunity.

Lessons from these 2 cases: know your limitations, and don't piss off a senior officer than controls the meds.

 

[Perrotfish]

So, more follow ups:

1) I've met PAs in training, but I've never seen an IDC candidate. Where do they train? Do they rotate through our clinics?

2) Are IDCs entirely under the jurisdiction of the medical corps or do they sometimes report to nurses/MSCs?

3) Are IDCs doctor trained? Are they creating their curriculum within their own community or are we supervising it?

4) Is there an 06 physician in charge of the whole IDC program somewhere, or is responsibility for the program divided up into little pieces across the entire Medical Corps?

5) Are there any reliable statistics concerning outcomes and sentinel events on ships and subs? Do we have any kind of real data regarding how IDCs (and GMOs, for that matter) are actually performing their jobs?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Thank you for your genius opinion! Now that you are in the military I'm certain your probably running a hospital now without administrative skills. As you have ascertained the military doesn't give you the option of yes or no in regards to what "they" want. I realize your post is way past old but felt compelled to add a bit of clarity being a former IDMT. A bit of history regarding my experience may help. My first assignment was Wilford Hall in Labor and Delivery in 1985 straight out of tech school. Yup six weeks and knew nothing about it and one of the few males assigned to it at that time.
Had four years of high risk OB experience. Was a scrub tech on an emergency C-section and the 4th year resident cut the woman's bowel that required a bowel resection and hysterectomy after she developed coagulopathy and the senior attending had to come in and repair it. She lost her residency. My experience after a 6 hour surgery was draining because I had NEVER done any surgery assistance coming close to that. Had limited training on instruments albeit 2 weeks in OR having nothing to do with OB. Watched medical student break bag with thick meconium on baby and he had no clue that heart rate was non-existant on Doppler. I was a tech and took it upon myself to yell down the hall to prepare for C-section because he didn't try to put electrode on head. No nurse present. Baby died. 2 years primary care experience after that, 1 year sterile supply, 3 years ER then IDMT school. Choice? No. You either passed the course or you got in trouble. IDMT school was intense and it was 8-5 mon-fri for 4 months. My experience was already suturing, casting, IM injections, medication administration, breathing treatments. First deployment as IDMT? Somalia. Daunting? Well doctor, next time you feel the need to chastise anybody then look no further than your employer, not the guy grabbing the chart. Experience goes ALOT farther than you think and trust me that my training was no where close to what it needed to be to do the job expected of me. Unless your willing to deploy to ****holes and do the job then by all means deploy. All of us do the best we can with what we have and the military decided we as enlisted had to fit that bill. Hell no it wasn't right and still isn't. Now I want that pharmacist to go out in the field with his education and see patients, examine, diagnose, differential diagnosis, and treat with limited equipment or drugs. I am comfortable with my twenty year career as an uneducated provider of patient care because I had too and I harmed no one. In fact very proud of my accomplishments. I assisted with a baby delivery in Somalia on a COT, diagnosed appendicitis on patient after two visits with a DOCTOR, and assisted with his surgery to remove it. Assisted with anencephalics, hydrocephalus, quadruplets, diabetic emergencies, dental emergencies, put temporary fillings, checked water samples, food inspections, Gram stains, urine tests, performed hematocrits,, assisted with pap smears, minor surgeries, removed toenails, packed wounds, trained in medications, head to toe exams, EMT, ACLS, CPR instructed, Ambulance Instructor, IVs, chest tubes. Assisted with sigmoidoscopies, ent, urology and minor surgeries, orthopedic and internal medicine. Anything else you would like to know about IDMTs? What the hell? I've seen my share of ****ty doctors regardless of education. We do/did the best we could and in most cases had no choice.

Hmmm....so I got an alert that someone quoted my post....9 years after I wrote it and 11 years after he retired. Needless to say, I no longer have any need to hear about what an IDMT is, especially from someone who communicates like you do.

Thanks for your service...I think.

 

[d2305]

When I went through, we did our clinics aboard the ships in Norfolk. The squadron medical officer (GMO) signed out SF 600 notes. I have no idea where they rotate now. I don't know where IDC school is now. All the medics/corpsman are trained at Fort Sam Houston.

 

[teacherman84]

I dont see IDMTs around my mtf at all and we train just about everyone.
My little brother just finished IDMT school with the AF. Hes a 21 yo 4N...worked in a FMclinic for the first few years of his service. For school he spent 2 months-ish in TX...mixed clinical and classroom. Now hes ready to go be an IDMT...per his report he doesnt feel ready to see clinic. His new assignment is sending him to paramedic school when he gets there for more training.
His end goal is prob PA...this was just an avenue to go play with AFSOC for a few years.

 

[Perrotfish]

When I went through, we did our clinics aboard the ships in Norfolk. The squadron medical officer (GMO) signed out SF 600 notes. I have no idea where they rotate now. I don't know where IDC school is now. All the medics/corpsman are trained at Fort Sam Houston.

Alright, this is legitimately concerning. Our IDC training process doesn't involve ANY rotations with a board certified physician?

 

[Gastrapathy]

They used to spend 1 week on an IM ward team functioning like a brand new ms3 or less at NMCSD. No idea about the current state of their training.

 

[Perrotfish]

So the million dollar question, I guess, is how do we fix this? Who is in charge, and how much of a change is reasonable to push for?

"All IDCs need to train under board certified physicians, and need to work for their first two years under the direct supervision of a licensed physician" seems like an eminently reasonable goal that is basically free to the Navy.

"As above, but also double the length of their clinical training" seems like an even better idea, but it would cost money.

"All IDCs need to be replaced with FM track NPs or PAs" is the best I can imagine hoping for, and is arguably a much more of a long term solution, but it involves some serious investment.

Thoughts? What do you guys think the proposal should be? Not what the system should ideally be (that's a doctor on every ship, which the Navy can't/won't fund, even if we ignore the issues of recruitment and skill atrophy), but if you were going to seriously take this to the Navy what would you suggest we should actually change?

 

[Shikima]

Problems come from those at the O-6 level and above.

 

[d2305]

Naval Hospital Portsmouth wanted nothing to do with us. So we headed through the tunnel to the fleet in port to learn from IDCs who had made a Mediterranean cruise without getting relived for cause. Looks like the school moved to Fort Sam Houston. Page 32 http://www.metc.mil/Catalog/METC_Catalog.pdf

 

[Perrotfish]

It seems like this program was designed to not attract attention to itself. Do board certified physicians ever interact with it? Other than the occasional O4 SMO on a ship, how often does anyone who has completed a residency have anything to do with IDCs? It seems like there's no opportunity for anyone to evaluate the program because no one sees it in action.

PAs and NPs, for all the controversy involving midlevel care, are at the very least completely integrated into our teams in both training and practice. Its not like we can say we don't know how they're doing.

 

[d2305]

Fort Sam Houston has board certified physicians en masse. It's a long drive to the fleet, however.

 

[Idmt]

Hmmm....so I got an alert that someone quoted my post....9 years after I wrote it and 11 years after he retired. Needless to say, I no longer have any need to hear about what an IDMT is, especially from someone who communicates like you do.

Thanks for your service...I think.

Your welcome, and thank you for your continued service............I think

 

[Idmt]

Problems come from those at the O-6 level and above.[/QUthinks

They take the same oath you did?

 

[Idmt]

He did his best in whatever situation he came upon, and is confusing his honorable service during which he thinks everything went OK, to be evidence that the system that put him in that position is just fine. Common logical fallacy 'round these parts, c.f. GMO tours.

Throw in some defensive shoulder-chippiness as he perceives insult, and there you go.

It's not perceived it's actual. Let's review

 

[Idmt]

Your defense for doing tasks you aren't quakified to do should be stronger than listing other people also doing things they aren't qualified to do.......that's not a defense

Ahhhhh there it is. Wait it get's better

 

[Idmt]

You harmed no one in 20 years of practicing uneducated medicine? Someone get Dr. House here a commendation medal.

So are the IDMT's, IDC's running this dog and pony show? This thread needs to be required reading for every medical student, IDMT, IDC, OR MD. Chasing the tail hasn't changed since the original poster 8 years ago. Got a medical student calling out unethical, dangerous care and NOTHING has changed. Who the hell is making the decisions? Been the same for almost every deployment I went on. Nurses bitching about why an enlisted guy is seeing patients. Doctors not familiar with IDMT training or what they can and can't do. Now it's our fault?

 

[HighPriest]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

I love this thread, btw. Big fan.

 

[idq1i]

Now it's our fault?

It's not your fault but your vocation is emblematic of what is wrong with milmed IMO

I can't understand the rest of your post. Speak english much?

 

[Idmt]

It's not your fault but your vocation is emblematic of what is wrong with milmed IMO

I can't understand the rest of your post. Speak english much?

I can only say it, whether you understand it is not my problem.