If a prestigious university like Princeton had a DO school would it be a hit?

[flatearth22]

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One problem I see with DO schools is that many of them are either part of an independent and/or part of small, private, no-name universities. Very few are like Oklahoma State or Michigan State and are part of a land grant institution and none are part of a private, big name university. Having been treated by both MD's and DO's for various ailments I strongly feel that there is no difference in quality between one degree or the other...but I do think that DO schools suffer from a name brand issue just because people haven't heard of those universities that DO schools are a part of.

For example I'm applying to all the California MD and DO schools this cycle and when people ask me where I'm applying I rattle off the list (UCLA, USC, UC-Irvine, UCSD, etc. etc.) but when I get to Western and Tuoro they always ask more about those schools because they haven't heard of them. It seems like to me it's an issue of name brand with the university more so than the actual DO degree that I have to explain (explaining DO is easy...I tell them it's just MD with some manipulative techniques)

So my question is - if a really prestigious private school like Princeton (which currently has no professional schools) opened up a DO school would the Princeton name brand make it a more viable option for many people? Would it raise the status of DO schools as a whole?

The one thing that comes to mind as a comparison are the DMD and DDS degrees in dentistry where DDS is the "mainstream" degree but no one really questions DMD because Harvard offers it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't think anyone will really care, outside of pre-meds and medical students who already are supposed to know about this. A lot of people are frankly completely clueless when it comes to medical training.

 

[Postal]

If Princeton had a D.O. school, people still wouldn't know what a D.O. is. Its not just a "brand name" issue, it's just that many people haven't come across a D.O. knowingly because there are so few compared to M.D.s. I think it would be a hit within the osteopathic pre-med community but I don't think it would look more attractive to the average allopathic pre-med students because even if they got their degree from Princeton, they'd still have to explain what a D.O. is.

 

[megathunder]

Awesome thoughts thanks for bringing this up. I think starting a DO program at a large brand name school would be a fantastic idea. Honestly, this would bring immense credence to the degree. Reputation begins from within the community, and frankly speaking having a DO school at a place like Princeton would definitely begin the process of blurring the hierarchy between MD and DO. I mean, would you rather go to Princeton to study medicine if it meant getting a DO or go to some random state school and get an MD? I'm pretty sure I'd pick the former. As it stands many people already still choose to attend their small-time MD state school over larger, better established DO schools (to their detriment, IMO).

And honestly, I don't think such a proposition is that far off. The DO community is already very rapidly gaining ground in medicine and all it would take is a few big wigs to donate the amount of money needed to start a school at one of these universities. Once the ball starts rolling momentum will do the rest.

[EDIT]^^Jesus, that avatar is huge.

 

[MightyMoose]

I would love to see this. I do think this would add value within the medical community, because the DO program could be associated with a big name and give more access to research, grants, and scholarships. However, I think the general public will be just as clueless as they are now.

Btw, OP, my past experiences have led me to the understanding that people don't really care where you are going to school. You can say you applied to all the CA schools and they would be just as happy with that. Or you could say I applied to all 10 CA schools (or however many there are now). This will make them more likely to enjoy the conversation and you less likely to worry about the fact that they don't know schools you applied to (test it, I promise it works). Anyway, once I shortened my answer to "I am applying/going to medical school in X city" I have only had one person ask where specifically, and that was because he had friends in three of the local schools (mine being one of them). Everyone else just said, "Oh great! You'll love it... blah blah blah." So, really we are the ones who ultimately create the "explanation situation," if we let ourselves. 😉

 

[megathunder]

I would love to see this. I do think this would add value within the medical community, because the DO program could be associated with a big name and give more access to research, grants, and scholarships. However, I think the general public will be just as clueless as they are now.

Btw, OP, my past experiences have led me to the understanding that people don't really care where you are going to school. You can say you applied to all the CA schools and they would be just as happy with that. Or you could say I applied to all 10 CA schools (or however many there are now). This will make them more likely to enjoy the conversation and you less likely to worry about the fact that they don't know schools you applied to (test it, I promise it works). Anyway, once I shortened my answer to "I am applying/going to medical school in X city" I have only had one person ask where specifically, and that was because he had friends in three of the local schools (mine being one of them). Everyone else just said, "Oh great! You'll love it... blah blah blah." So, really we are the ones who ultimately create the "explanation situation," if we let ourselves. 😉

Exactly, I tell people "I'm going to Kansas City University" and I get the same wow, congratulations, that's awesome, etc that I would get if I was going to any other med school in the country. A select few will tell me I'm going to love the barbecue or go on to talk about the weather/things to do but no one ever questions the degree.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

So my question is - if a really prestigious private school like Princeton (which currently has no professional schools) opened up a DO school would the Princeton name brand make it a more viable option for many people? Would it raise the status of DO schools as a whole?

Good question. I think that the Ivy League name is so marketable that applicants would flock there by the thousands, even if it was the ****tiest medical school in the country.

 

[guydudcl371]

I do not think that a big name school like Princeton needs to open a DO school in order for DOs to become more recognized, I think that DO schools need to get better at marketing. I think that many DOs are (for a lot of reasons) more humble people...we do not walk around bragging much about our education/institution, and so there are few conversations about DO schools and DOs in general. I think that current DO schools need to address this by doing more outreach and more marketing. Instead of waiting for one of their students to cure cancer and be linked back to the institution, the institution needs to be branding itself as a leader in the community and getting its name out there. While a school like Princeton opening up a DO program would definitely increase awareness, I also think it would distract from many of the attractive features of being a DO. IDK...I sort of see it as selling out in some weird way...hard to explain.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I do not think that a big name school like Princeton needs to open a DO school in order for DOs to become more recognized, I think that DO schools need to get better at marketing. I think that many DOs are (for a lot of reasons) more humble people...we do not walk around bragging much about our education/institution, and so there are few conversations about DO schools and DOs in general. I think that current DO schools need to address this by doing more outreach and more marketing. Instead of waiting for one of their students to cure cancer and be linked back to the institution, the institution needs to be branding itself as a leader in the community and getting its name out there. While a school like Princeton opening up a DO program would definitely increase awareness, I also think it would distract from many of the attractive features of being a DO. IDK...I sort of see it as selling out in some weird way...hard to explain.

I don't think any of this is rooted in reality. Furthermore even if Princeton were to advertise and parade it's new DO school, I doubt there would be a significant effect. If you want to have people know what a DO is you probably should start a show called House D.O. Regardless, most people don't care whether your a MD or a DO or a PA or even a RN just as long as you're proving decent care.
Also, why would it be selling out? Anyways... if Princeton were to opened up a medical school it would be unlikely to be a DO school as they would likely be able to open up an institute and easily get it ready for LCME accreditation. A lot of DO schools ( Specifically newer ones) lack essential aspects which a strong and powerful institute like Princeton has, and as such seek out accreditation from COCA and become DO schools as opposed to MD schools.

 

[MedIsInMyBlood]

I don't think anyone will really care, outside of pre-meds and medical students who already are supposed to know about this. A lot of people are frankly completely clueless when it comes to medical training.

I'll agree with this. I don't think it matters if I told my friends I was going to "UCLA" as opposed to "Touro-COM"...all they know is that I'm going to medical school and beyond that they have no idea what's happening.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'll agree with this. I don't think it matters if I told my friends I was going to "UCLA" as opposed to "Touro-COM"...all they know is that I'm going to medical school and beyond that they have no idea what's happening.

Most people rarely do... and it's really not as big deal a deal as some people are making it out to be. As long as the people understand I am a doctor, then I really don't care.

 

[Brachyury]

I don't think any of this is rooted in reality. Furthermore even if Princeton were to advertise and parade it's new DO school, I doubt there would be a significant effect. If you want to have people know what a DO is you probably should start a show called House D.O. Regardless, most people don't care whether your a MD or a DO or a PA or even a RN just as long as you're proving decent care.
Also, why would it be selling out? Anyways... if Princeton were to opened up a medical school it would be unlikely to be a DO school as they would likely be able to open up an institute and easily get it ready for LCME accreditation. A lot of DO schools ( Specifically newer ones) lack essential aspects which a strong and powerful institute like Princeton has, and as such seek out accreditation from COCA and become DO schools as opposed to MD schools.

Correct: in 2010, Princeton had more NIH funding than all DO schools combined, and with a large endowment and a large faculty, Princeton would have no trouble getting LCME accreditation. However, if you are trying to open a new school, it can be difficult to have the research facilities, faculty, and money to get LCME accreditation. Is that a bad thing? No: DO schools follow a different structure than MD schools

 

[TriagePreMed]

Princeton can never have an Osteopathic School. We already have a PCOM in our list 😀

 

[group_theory]

Princeton can never have an Osteopathic School. We already have a PCOM in our list 😀

What's wrong with Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine of Princeton University? Can still keep the PCOM title ... and it's close by 🙂 😀😛

You have Weill Cornell Medical College of Cornell University, Perelman School of Medicine of the University of Pennsylvania, and Alpert Medical School of Brown University.

EDIT: Not sure if PCOM-PU is a good abbreviation though

 

[DocEspana]

What's wrong with Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine of Princeton University? Can still keep the PCOM title ... and it's close by 🙂 😀😛

You have Weill Cornell Medical College of Cornell University, Perelman School of Medicine of the University of Pennsylvania, and Alpert Medical School of Brown University.

EDIT: Not sure if PCOM-PU is a good abbreviation though

Not that this fits in the "famous names" department, unless you're from NYC where Yeshiva is a household name, but this belongs in the ridiculous names group: Don't forget Albert Einstein School of Medicine at Yeshiva University (which, it is not *at*, in reality).

 

[Styria]

After the merger in California and the loss of the school there, when the California Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional not to license DOs there, the state legislature offered to the DOs the option of starting a new school at any UC campus that did not already have a medical school. They didn't take it, unfortunately. I'm sure COMP is good, and it gives the profession a school in the same metropolitan region as the one it lost, but who knows what could have been.

 

[DocEspana]

That's a seriously dumb move. Imagine UC Berkeley College of Osteopathic Medicine.

Used to be UC Irvine College of Osteopathic Medicine. Oh, back in the day.

 

[IDBasco]

Used to be UC Irvine College of Osteopathic Medicine. Oh, back in the day.

Um, no.

http://www.som.uci.edu/historicalTimeline.asp

 

[DocEspana]

Um, no.

http://www.som.uci.edu/historicalTimeline.asp

um, yes. "1896: Pacific Sanitarium and School of Osteopathic Medicine, what is known today as University of California, Irvine School of Medicine, is founded"

It was an osteopathic school until the early 1960s. The only reason why it wasnt called UC Irvine proper is because the undergraduate was built after, and around, the medical school which predates the undergrad's existence in Irvine by about 6 or 7 years and was an osteopathic school in that time frame.

 

[IDBasco]

The only reason why it wasnt called UC Irvine proper is because the undergraduate was built after,

So, no then? Yeah.

 

[DocEspana]

So, no then? Yeah.

Perhaps you misunderstand me, cause i do talk in a circuitous manner. Is Alpert Medical School not "Brown"? It's owned by Brown. It's on Brown's campus. Reimbursement checks for school events come from Brown, but its called Alpert.

Yes the names are only those below, but honestly, Irvine (the city) didnt even exist (literally) until ~15 years after the medical school and undergraduate existed. The school is named after the original land owner, a wealthy businessman, not the town which was later also named that. Anyway, sure. If you want to be a stickler it was never called that word for word, but being a stickler for wording is a pain when so many medical schools have such odd names and are known by their affiliation.

(the names): Pacific Sanitarium and School of Osteopathic Medicine (in Anaheim)
Pacific College of Osteopathy (In LA)
The College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons
California College of Medicine (Still osteopathic for a few years)
UC Irvine Medical School

 

[IDBasco]

And no matter how you try to spin your factual error, there never was a UC Irvine College of Osteopathic Medicine. Period. Carry on.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Does it really matter? UCICOM or PCO... it was a UC Irvine based osteopathic school.

 

[TriagePreMed]

And no matter how you try to spin your factual error, there never was a UC Irvine College of Osteopathic Medicine. Period. Carry on.

The irony is that UCI is accepting that they had an Osteopathic school. Otherwise, they wouldn't add it to the website. But I don't understand. Do you think anyone actually derives some type of pride or something from acknowledging there was once an Osteopathic school at UCI?

 

[DocEspana]

And no matter how you try to spin your factual error, there never was a UC Irvine College of Osteopathic Medicine. Period. Carry on.

 

[IDBasco]

Do you think anyone actually derives some type of pride or something from acknowledging there was once an Osteopathic school at UCI?

It would seem that some do- reminiscing about a school that never existed. But really I just prefer accuracy, which apparently in this thread isn't highly valued.

Read the link I posted. They aren't claiming they had an osteopathic school at UCI. They are giving a history of a school that was in multiple locations and operated under multiple names, as an osteopathic and then allopathic school before UCI ever had anything to do with it.

it was a UC Irvine based osteopathic school.

No- lets try again. 5 years passed AFTER the school changed to allopathic before UCI took it over. In fact, UCI didn't even exist until after they switched.

Clear now?

 

[TriagePreMed]

It would seem that some do- reminiscing about a school that never existed. But really I just prefer accuracy, which apparently in this thread isn't highly valued.

Reminiscing? LOL nobody here was even alive when it happened, and nobody here gives a **** that it was UCI. UCI is not even the best of the UC campuses to be going gaga over. Anyway...

1957-1960

The University of California Regents votes to create three new campuses. After a lengthy search, Irvine Ranch was selected as a campus site.
1961-1962

The College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons becomes the California College of Medicine. In 1962, Proposition 22 passes enabling DOs to fall under jurisdiction of the California Board of Medical Examiners. As a result, members of the class of 1962 are granted MD degrees. Prior graduates of the school have their certificates of osteopathic medicine converted to MD degrees.

Accuracy pretty much says that UC Irvine's school was Osteopathic and they converted it.

 

[IDBasco]

Accuracy pretty much says that UC Irvine's school was Osteopathic and they converted it.

LOL, pretty much it doesn't. UCI started as a school 5 years after the DO med school was converted to MD. Go back and read all the way through '69.

And no, UCI isn't that big of a name, but the fact remains that there never was a UCI osteopathic school. Which means there are no doctors running around with DO degrees conferred from UCI. Is it that hard to understand? 😕

 

[DocEspana]

The building that is currently called UCI med school (or whatever the formal name is) was previously an osteopathic school in that exact location while UC Irvine was already named and existed. 5 years after the switch over is when the UG school RENAMED the med school (and consolidated together formally). Yes it was MD by then, but its the same exact school. Not just in spirit/ownership tradition, but the actual building.

and I'm sorry if you thought I was being literal, just musing that there was an osteopathic school thats affiliated with a popular cali school.

 

[DwightKSschrute]

I just read through all of this and this is like one of those arguments that kids have and then adults step in and yell "WHO CARES??" haha

 

[Postal]

I just read through all of this and this is like one of those arguments that kids have and then adults step in and yell "WHO CARES??" haha

Agreed!

 

[Honze55]

And no, UCI isn't that big of a name, but the fact remains that there never was a UCI osteopathic school. Which means there are no doctors running around with DO degrees conferred from UCI. Is it that hard to understand? 😕

there are lots of doctors around that carry DO/MD degrees from UCI. Some go by DO, some go by MD, some go by DO/MD.

 

[Whiskeypunch]

.

 

[ItzYaYa]

To address the MAIN topic, I'd say that the main 'problem' with the DO field is awareness. Not many people know about the osteopathic, holistic view of medicine and therefore are either quick to discredit it, lay false claims against it, and/or disregard it completely. If the DOs were to align themselves with a Tier 1, name brand school such as Princeton, I'm fairly sure that it would turn a lot of heads. A Princeton DO school would most likely be allocated funds far superior to other DO schools, and seeing as how most of the uninformed apply to schools solely based on name, I'm pretty sure it would have a more competitive app pool, one that would most likely rival that of some of the premier allopathic schools in the country.

This is all supposition of course. As was stated before, people really don't care about the letters after your name as long as you provide care.