If doctors earned minimum wage, would you still go into medicine?

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Would you still do medicine with minimum wage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 11.1%
  • No

    Votes: 241 88.9%

  • Total voters
    271
I was talking more along the lines of 'doctors aren't rich, but they do ok'. For all intents and purposes they ARE rich. They might not be Ferrari and a megayacht rich, but they definitely have money.

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I was talking more along the lines of 'doctors aren't rich, but they do ok'. For all intents and purposes they ARE rich. They might not be Ferrari and a megayacht rich, but they definitely have money.

Actually, a lot of primary care doctors that live in expensive areas (East coast and CA) are not rich, but upper middle class. They earn, say $150K. But the cost of living is very high, and taxes and malpractice are also high, and when all of those things are subtracted, they often end up with a modest amount of money. Not to mention debt of $200K. But in other areas where it's cheaper to live, doctors are more likely to be rich, because homes cost a fraction of what they cost in the aforementioned expensive areas, but doctors earn a similar income. Also, managed care may not be as tight.
 
i'd do it for free. i just really want to help people.
 
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Actually, a lot of primary care doctors that live in expensive areas (East coast and CA) are not rich, but upper middle class. They earn, say $150K. But the cost of living is very high, and taxes and malpractice are also high, and when all of those things are subtracted, they often end up with a modest amount of money. Not to mention debt of $200K. But in other areas where it's cheaper to live, doctors are more likely to be rich, because homes cost a fraction of what they cost in the aforementioned expensive areas, but doctors earn a similar income. Also, managed care may not be as tight.

The $150k figure is with malpractice insurance already accounted for. Nearly all salary surveys show salaries after malpractice insurance. Unless you work in a private practice, hospitals generally pay for your malpractice insurance.

Contrary to popular belief you don't need to be a billionaire to live in expensive areas. No one is saying you need to buy a 10 bedroom condo in Times Square because you're a doctor with appearances to keep. Not everyone living a decent life in New York is rich. Plenty of engineers live decently with their 'low' $60,000 a year salary.
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.


You might be ******ed, son.
 
The purpose of a college education, any college education, be it in business, medicine, law, english, or anything else, is so that you do not have to work for minimum wage. If I wanted to work for minimum wage, I would not have gone to college at all, much less medical school, especially with its notoriously high cost. So come on, it would be stupid to say yes.
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.

Like someone here


What you're really asking is whether medicine is as fun and fulfilling as you want and imagine it to be which is a legitimate question for a pre-med student to ask. The fact that you think it would be a worthwhile career if it paid next to nothing reveals the limits of your "reference frame." Because you are a student and have probably never had a valuable skill or done any productive work of any sort, you are projecting your current opinions and expectations onto the next seven to twelve years of your life. To date, the only criterion you have to evaluate an activity is whether entails fun or fills some non-financial need in your life. This is why pre-meds are so proud of their volunteer work among the Holy Underserved, that is, because while it may pay nothing and require no skill whatsoever, it is immensely gratifying.

Medicine can be a fun and fulfilling career. It certainly has its moments even though most of American Medicine is complete bull****. Somewhere, however, between your first day of medical school and your residency medicine stops being a calling or a lark or an exercise in self-fulfillment and becomes a job. You'd go through medical school if it paid minimum wage because, and stop me if this is obvious, you aren't making a dime but are instead hemorrhaging money continuously for four years. Hell, minimum wage would be nice even though it would not be necessary because medical school, in a strange way, is mostly fun. You're not doing any productive work, you have no responsibility to anyone but yourself, and nothing is expected of you.

The hospital will not seize up or fall apart if the medical students disappeared I mean. You are not even a factor during first and second year and during third year and fourth year, at the very best you are nothing but a useless appendage writing insanely long H&Ps that nobody ever reads and chugging away at useless scutwork.

Then you hit your intern year and now is is a job with strict hours, responsibility, and the need to perform. It's not so much fun anymore not for the least of which reasons that you are starting to get tired of your patients and their complaints. When you're a pre-med you dream of giving service, Mother Theresa-like, to the Saintly Underprivileged Who Are Without Stain Or Blemish. As a resident, you will grow to resent the stupid mother****er who sat on his couch all day smoking crack and at 5AM decided to call the ambulance for some vague chest pain that he has had for the last week. No sooner have you put your head down on your pillow in the call room after a call night of mostly ridiculous admissions hoping to get an hour or two of sleep before morning rounds when you are paged down to the Emergency Department to listen to his idiotic story and admit his sorry ass.

Then it's just a job and you will regret mightily not throwing your medical school application in the trash when you had the chance. And you will laugh to think that you ever thought you'd do this sort of thing for the rest of your life for what Taco Bell pays.
 
What you're really asking is whether medicine is as fun and fulfilling as you want and imagine it to be which is a legitimate question for a pre-med student to ask. The fact that you think it would be a worthwhile career if it paid next to nothing reveals the limits of your "reference frame." Because you are a student and have probably never had a valuable skill or done any productive work of any sort, you are projecting your current opinions and expectations onto the next seven to twelve years of your life. To date, the only criterion you have to evaluate an activity is whether entails fun or fills some non-financial need in your life. This is why pre-meds are so proud of their volunteer work among the Holy Underserved, that is, because while it may pay nothing and require no skill whatsoever, it is immensely gratifying.

Medicine can be a fun and fulfilling career. It certainly has its moments even though most of American Medicine is complete bull****. Somewhere, however, between your first day of medical school and your residency medicine stops being a calling or a lark or an exercise in self-fulfillment and becomes a job. You'd go through medical school if it paid minimum wage because, and stop me if this is obvious, you aren't making a dime but are instead hemorrhaging money continuously for four years. Hell, minimum wage would be nice even though it would not be necessary because medical school, in a strange way, is mostly fun. You're not doing any productive work, you have no responsibility to anyone but yourself, and nothing is expected of you.

The hospital will not seize up fall apart if the medical students disappeared I mean. You are not even a factor during first and second year and during third year and fourth year, at the very best you are nothing but a useless appendage writing insanely long H&Ps that nobody ever reads and chugging away at useless scutwork.

Then you hit your intern year and now is is a job with strict hours, responsibility, and the need to perform. It's not so much fun anymore not for the least of which reasons that you are starting to get tired of your patients and their complaints. When you're a pre-med you dream of giving service, Mother Theresa-like, to the Saintly Underprivileged Who Are Without Stain Or Blemish. As a resident, you will grow to resent the stupid mother****er who sat on his couch all day smoking crack and at 5AM decided to call the ambulance for some vague chest pain that he has had for the last week. No sooner have you put your head down on your pillow in the call room after a call night of mostly ridiculous admissions hoping to get an hour or two of sleep before morning rounds when you are paged down to the Emergency Department to listen to his idiotic story and admit his sorry ass.

Then it's just a job and you will regret mightily not throwing your medical school application in the trash when you had the chance. And you will laugh to think that you ever thought you'd do this sort of thing for the rest of your life for what Taco Bell pays.

I think I'm in love with you.
 
Would a med school interviewer ever ask this question?
 
Not a chance, and I hope I do not end up in medical school with anyone who would do that.
 
Coming out of your education/training with 100-200K of debt would make earning minimum wage impossible. So no, I would not pursue a career in medicine while making minimum wage. It is one thing to focus on a career that you love; but another if you cannot afford to live while in that career.

Personally, I think the question of the OP is pointless/stupid.
 
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Yes I would work for minimum wage, then put a big red ball on my nose and go open up a clinic run by medical students and hope that my girlfriend isn't killed by a psychotic man. I'll them come up with a touching and deticated speech for the hearing in which I am going to be expelled from medical school for attempting to practice medicine without a license. Through my passionate speech about truly being a doctor, the entire ****ing medical board will see the errors of their ways and I will single handedly change the entire US medical system.



Oh yeah did I mention I was suicidal before doing all of this?
 
Yes I would work for minimum wage, then put a big red ball on my nose and go open up a clinic run by medical students and hope that my girlfriend isn't killed by a psychotic man. I'll them come up with a touching and deticated speech for the hearing in which I am going to be expelled from medical school for attempting to practice medicine without a license. Through my passionate speech about truly being a doctor, the entire ****ing medical board will see the errors of their ways and I will single handedly change the entire US medical system.



Oh yeah did I mention I was suicidal before doing all of this?

Wow. What are the odds? That's very similar to my life story.
 
Yes I would work for minimum wage, then put a big red ball on my nose and go open up a clinic run by medical students and hope that my girlfriend isn't killed by a psychotic man. I'll them come up with a touching and deticated speech for the hearing in which I am going to be expelled from medical school for attempting to practice medicine without a license. Through my passionate speech about truly being a doctor, the entire ****ing medical board will see the errors of their ways and I will single handedly change the entire US medical system.



Oh yeah did I mention I was suicidal before doing all of this?

You forgot the part where you helped me flip cots and f*ck up imaginary creatures.
 
I would still go into medicine for if these FOUR points were met:
1)Undergraduate and Medschool was free
2)Doctors had the most respect and it was illegal for anyone to sue them.
3)For humanity, imagine you have so much knowledge with which you can change lives is a satisfaction in itself
4)If there was Universal health care like Canada (Procedures,prescriptions,surgeries,doctor's visits, medical equipment etc is all free) - I hate US system - its all about money, no wonder doctors get sued here. Go to Canada and you don't even hear anyone getting sued.
 
4)If there was Universal health care like Canada (Procedures,prescriptions,surgeries,doctor's visits, medical equipment etc is all free) - I hate US system - its all about money, no wonder doctors get sued here. Go to Canada and you don't even hear anyone getting sued.

No, you just hear a bunch of other complaints about the system.

Seeing as how UHC is seen as the cure for all that ails US medicine, and with a hat-tip to Dennis Miller, this dark cloud has a silver lining... which contains dangerously high levels of mercury.
 
I would still go into medicine for if these FOUR points were met:
1)Undergraduate and Medschool was free
2)Doctors had the most respect and it was illegal for anyone to sue them.
3)For humanity, imagine you have so much knowledge with which you can change lives is a satisfaction in itself
4)If there was Universal health care like Canada (Procedures,prescriptions,surgeries,doctor's visits, medical equipment etc is all free) - I hate US system - its all about money, no wonder doctors get sued here. Go to Canada and you don't even hear anyone getting sued.

Whoa. Canadian doctors do have malpractice insurance you know. If they were never sued they would never need it.

And medicine is all about money everywhere. Our European cousins in the Great Freeloaded Kingdoms Across the Ocean are perpetually preoccupied with it and in fact, the number one concern of any modern mammary state is how to come up with the money to pay for the benefits (medical care being one of the most expensive) for an aging population with a dwindling supply of productive workers.

Your desire to work for nothing will not help the poor one iota. It will just take some pressure off of government or your employer who will at last have found the inhuman zealot they are looking for who, unlike everybody else in the world, they don't have to pay.

Doctors are very well respected in the United States. Being sued has nothing to do with it. If I see 8000 patients a year and get sued once every three years (which is typical for Emergency Medicine), all this means is that out of 24,000 patients, one either hated my guts or got lured into suing by a predatory lawyer who thought he had a good case. Now, it's true that a lawsuit, whether you win or lose, can be devastating but if you step back a little, it is a small minority of patients who sue...and some of them may even have a legitimate case.

I get plenty of respect both in the hospital and in private life for being a physician. I also act the part and try to be responsible, level-headed, calm, and caring without being sloppy or weepy.
 
I'm not in this for the money, and even if I wasn't going to have a few hundred thousand in loans to pay off at the end of this... I'm planning on having a family to support and it would just be irresponsible and selfish of me to take a job that no only can't support them, but also would require every dime I make to pay off the education for it.

Saying yes to this question indicates you have absolutely no grounding in the real world and are far too idealistic for medicine.
 
Take out the cost and length of medical school and residency, and I still wouldn't do it for minimum wage. Having grown up in a family that essentially earns minimum wage, it's something I'd rather not be doing the rest of my life. I want a job where I can provide for my family, where I can send my kids to college on my dime, etc. How much I make doesn't matter provided I can meet my aforementioned goals.
 
If I see 8000 patients a year and get sued once every three years (which is typical for Emergency Medicine), all this means is that out of 24,000 patients, one either hated my guts or got lured into suing by a predatory lawyer who thought he had a good case.

Once every THREE years? Can you get sued in residency?

I assume these suits are "short and sweet" or taken care of by malpractice or something? Otherwise how're you going to have time to actually practice :confused::confused::confused: if you're fending off legal battles as a part-time job?
 
Yes I would work for minimum wage, then put a big red ball on my nose and go open up a clinic run by medical students and hope that my girlfriend isn't killed by a psychotic man. I'll them come up with a touching and deticated speech for the hearing in which I am going to be expelled from medical school for attempting to practice medicine without a license. Through my passionate speech about truly being a doctor, the entire ****ing medical board will see the errors of their ways and I will single handedly change the entire US medical system.



Oh yeah did I mention I was suicidal before doing all of this?

patch adams.
 
Might want to consider the wording of the question here...

"If doctors made minimum wage would you still go into medicine?"

Yes. I just wouldn't be a doctor. :thumbup:
 
Once every THREE years? Can you get sued in residency?

I assume these suits are "short and sweet" or taken care of by malpractice or something? Otherwise how're you going to have time to actually practice :confused::confused::confused: if you're fending off legal battles as a part-time job?

There are no "short and sweet" lawsuits. You recieve the subeona, give it to your hospital or your group's legal counsel, and then just do exactly as he says as the thing drags on for years at a time. You do not have to spend months in court but the time you have to spend giving depositions and testifying can run into a fair number of unproductive and unpaid days for you for which you are never reimbursed. The suit may be "taken care of" by your malpractice carrier but if they have a cap on damages they will pay and you lose, in many states the plaintiff's attorny can come after your assets.

Practically, it is very difficult to sue a resident so I wouldn't worry about it. But once you are an attending, you are fair game and as I have heard, malpractice suits take a heavy emotional toll on physicians even if they are found harmless.

The key is not whether you win or lose but how much money you cost your malpractice carrier. They would rather insure a doctor who lost eight cases in a row but only cost them $100,000 in aggragate damages (or whatever they call it in medical malpractice law) than a doctor who won eight cases but cost them two million bucks and your malpractice rates and insurability will reflect only this.

Additionally, judgements against you significantly complicate your credentialing and licensing. It's the difference between checking "Not Appicable" on the form and having to attach a few pages of explanation, make a personal appearance before your state board, and jumping through all kinds of hoops.

If you don't despise lawyers by now you will and you should.
 
:scared::scared::scared: That's...terrible.

You know, sometimes I have nightmares after reading your posts, Panda :( Stephen King should envy your talent for description.
 
OP,

I worked a minimun wage job before. I need to give you a good slap to the head for even thinking some nut case would even think longer then a split 0.0001 for being a doctor and make minimum wage. :poke:
 
Absolutely wouldn't even consider it. Even if med school was free. In fact, I probably wouldn't do it if it paid less than 100K a year, particularly with the cost and time associated with becoming a doctor as high as it is.
 
Let's be friggin honest here! Here we are as struggling pre-medders dealing with the MCAT, AMCAS, secondaries, volunteering, shadowing, and yada yada yada and you are telling me that it is selfish to say that I wouldn't pursue medicine at minimum wage? Anyone who wants pennies after all the hard work we have been putting in (and the hard work we WILL be putting in) is absolutely INSANE.
 
yea, 12+ years of education for minumum wage... HA
 
Good pickup on that one champ :thumbup:


OT: Since I watched Awakenings and I really liked it, I then decided to watch Patch Adams... but ...

-----------

and of course i wouldn't be a doctor for minimum wage. I have to take care of my parents when they get old, family, and la la la la la.
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.

Like someone here


all other things being constant....

then no way.
 
If medicine paid minimum wage, there probably wouldn't be enough competent students willing to go through with it.

I'd guess that salary is the number one or two incentive for >80% of premeds. If medicine didn't pay what it does (or close to it), I wouldn't even have considered it. Even if med school were free I wouldn't do it.

That being said, I'm glad that I've found a career where I can help people, and I think I'll make a good doctor.

edit:

If doctors didn't make a substantial amount of money, there wouldn't be enough doctors. Either the requirements for becoming a doctor would fall and the quality of doctors would suffer, or salaries would go up and we would be where we are now.
 
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In response to panda's emotional toll with malpractice suits...yes, they take a very very heavy toll. More so than most people. I watched my dad enter the deepest depression of his life during a malpractice suit because everything was stacked against him in the situation and he made one minor slip. I'm sure you have seen it happen to people to. It is a very noticeable tenseness to the air.


To the OP. No. I would not do it. I'd be moderately miserable working an office job that would make me only slightly less than what many family practice guys make. At least I'd have about 9 years of my life back to spend with family and friends, along with a minor debt burden relative to what I'll incur now.

While many of us don't do this to make tons of money. We'd be idiots to not demand something for our services. Is it selfish that I want a nice car, nice house, comfortable life, comfortable retirement and to pay for my kids' college without serious worry? I certainly hope not. I worked near full time making double minimum wage and still struggled with groceries, bills and rent. I can't imagine how any of these people can survive.
 
Of course I would want to practice medicine even if paid minimum wage. The only things that matter in life are passion, ideals, rainbows and puppy dogs.
 
OT: Since I watched Awakenings and I really liked it, I then decided to watch Patch Adams... but ...

Awakenings isn't too bad. Imagine the malpractice suit that would erupt on robin williams for slipping that extra medication in.

Patch adams gave me a great outlook on life. I think if I get some med school interviews, I'm just going to walk in there and say "No matter what you decide regarding me, I'm still going to be a doctor and you can't take that away from me."
 
I want a job where I can provide for my family, where I can send my kids to college on my dime, etc.

Even when we admit we expect to be paid appropriately for the eternally delayed gratification and sacrifices medicine involves, it still has to be hidden under being for "my family" because that's more noble seeming than "I want to drive a shiny new Benz". Well, I do want to drive a shiny new Benz and I expect that if I have to stay in school until I'm 30 being crapped on by every person in the hospital I'll end up with one.

There has never ever been a lawyer who asked this question of pre-law students. The eternal self-flagellating nature of premeds is like one of those strange but true facts of nature. It's long gone by second year of residency.
 
Even when we admit we expect to be paid appropriately for the eternally delayed gratification and sacrifices medicine involves, it still has to be hidden under being for "my family" because that's more noble seeming than "I want to drive a shiny new Benz". Well, I do want to drive a shiny new Benz and I expect that if I have to stay in school until I'm 30 being crapped on by every person in the hospital I'll end up with one.

There has never ever been a lawyer who asked this question of pre-law students. The eternal self-flagellating nature of premeds is like one of those strange but true facts of nature. It's long gone by second year of residency.

Mine was gone about three days after watching Patch Adams. I suppose that's a good thing.

I want the people who voted "yes" in earnest to post an explanation.
 
Even when we admit we expect to be paid appropriately for the eternally delayed gratification and sacrifices medicine involves, it still has to be hidden under being for "my family" because that's more noble seeming than "I want to drive a shiny new Benz". Well, I do want to drive a shiny new Benz and I expect that if I have to stay in school until I'm 30 being crapped on by every person in the hospital I'll end up with one.

There has never ever been a lawyer who asked this question of pre-law students. The eternal self-flagellating nature of premeds is like one of those strange but true facts of nature. It's long gone by second year of residency.
I'm glad somebody had the balls to say that. I'm going to be all about getting paid once I'm actually practicing. What's wrong with maximizing your potential?
 
Putting living expenses, family support, and paying off loans, I voted Yes for pursuing medicine for minimum wage - which is what i took that poll to be: a hypothetical question.

In the spirit of honesty, I am really glad that my what my dream career has come to be after all my experiences happens to be a high-paying one, even though its a really hard one to get into.
 
I don't think anyone would do it for minimum wage, but if the pay was $50-70k and my tuition was free then I would still go into medicine in the blink of an eye. I just couldn't afford pay for any necessities like food, housing, or even transportation to my medical practice on minimum wage. Basically your question asks, would you become a homeless, starving doctor, who bicycles (or walks b/c you probably can't afford a bicycle) 10 miles each way to work to bring home $56 a day?
 
Funny how people that are so big on being altruistic want to travel to Africa to help the sick. There are plenty of sick people in the United States that can't afford health care. I guess visiting Sally Meth Mouth's trailer park doesn't make as good a story as travelling to exotic places and helping people, right?
 
LOL, hell no. I'd be a nursing assistant and make $15 an hour and laugh at the docs who spent an additional 12 years in school that made a third of what I made. Minimum wage x 40 hours a week x 50 weeks a year is under the federal poverty level. That's really all that needs to be said.
 
Of course I would. I'd just have a tip-jar that I carried around with me. And spit in the prescription bottle if people were jack@$$es to me.
 
Dear OP,
What a ridiculous claim.

Best,
littles
 
For minimum wage, I would politely invite the medical profession to fornicate itself in every oriface of it's body. I am an altruistic guy, and I love science and medicine, but if I had the choice of:

A. Mopping a floor in some school for 10 bucks an hour, going home after 8 hours, and hanging out with my family OR

B. Going through the suckiness that is medical education, an 80 hour a week residency (where you, incidentally, make just about minimum wage), and a 40+ hour a week practice

I would throw down and sling tacos in no time. It's a lot of trouble to become a physician, and anyone who would do it for minimum wage (or even 40k a year) is a f***ing idiot (or such an idealist that they shouldn't be practicing medicine in the first place) If you want to make minimum wage and be a doctor, send me your money... I'll find something to do with it.
 
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