If doctors earned minimum wage, would you still go into medicine?

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Would you still do medicine with minimum wage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 11.1%
  • No

    Votes: 241 88.9%

  • Total voters
    271

pancakesyrup

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Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.

Like someone here
 
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I'm not going to pursue a career that doesn't allow me to provide for my family. No.
I think someone who answers yes is seriously underestimating how bad life on minimum wage is.. forget buying the people you love things or sending your kids to college. Forget health/car insurance, etc.
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.

Then I would tend to think that these aforementioned "some" are not physicians or medical students. The education process is far too laborious and expensive to end up only earning minimum wage. It's a non-issue for me, since I'm HPSP, but if I knew I was going to be taking about $250K in loans to pay for my medical education and then earning minimum wage out of it for the rest of my career, I'd think pretty carefully about pursuing it, since it would cease to be a wise career choice. If such a thing were even likely, I'd want to see medical school be free.

I think it's important and even critical to have a love of medicine when pursuing this path, but at the same time, one cannot ignore the very real practical aspects to the process.
 
I'm not going to pursue a career that doesn't allow me to provide for my family. No.
I think someone who answers yes is seriously underestimating how bad life on minimum wage is.. forget buying the people you love things or sending your kids to college. Forget health/car insurance, etc.

But "helping people" should be put ahead of everything else, even family. Its a sacrifice you're making for the good of others, not your own benefits, or so they say.....🙄
 
But "helping people" should be put ahead of everything else, even family. Its a sacrifice you're making for the good of others, not your own benefits, or so they say.....🙄

If this were true we'd all be on a plane to sub-saharan Africa right now.

This topic embodies the shamelessly self-aggrandizing nature of many pre-meds: come on, nobody buys it.
 
But "helping people" should be put ahead of everything else, even family. Its a sacrifice you're making for the good of others, not your own benefits, or so they say.....🙄

Who are these mythical "they" that you keep referring to? Based on your aforementioned statement, you obviously are not married and/or don't have a family. I think there might be something seriously wrong with your thought process.
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.
This is pretty silly. The reason doctors get paid such big paychecks is because medicine is 1) hard, and 2) expensive to get into. So you kind of need the incentive to work as a doctor. You may do some volunteer stuff at times (it's good to mix it up) but, at the end of the day, you need to provide for your family.

So if I, as a doctor, got paid minimum wage, I'd probably take up research instead.

P.S. If you answered yes, I'd have to question your sanity. I'd take a logical doctor over one who's an lunatic.
 
But "helping people" should be put ahead of everything else, even family. Its a sacrifice you're making for the good of others, not your own benefits, or so they say.....🙄

Who are, "they?" Someone who hasn't experienced much of life, I gather. It's pretty hard to render assistance to others when you are struggling to make it yourself. I would even argue that it's more important to take responsibility for your own life first. If your own house is on fire, go take care of it, and so forth. Anyway, there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and then from that place reaching out to be of benefit to others around you.
 
I was more of a fan of the pre-edit PS 1up 😀
 
But "helping people" should be put ahead of everything else, even family. Its a sacrifice you're making for the good of others, not your own benefits, or so they say.....🙄
Sorry dude. The doctors who lose touch with their own families are far and away from being in touch with their patients. That's just not going to work.
 
That's a pretty ridiculous question. Why would anyone go into a profession that requires at least 7 years of intensive training to make minimum wage and go into massive debt in the process?

Oh, and this:
I would have questions about the judgement of a doctor who would answer "yes"
Would you want Dr. Makesstupiddecisions cutting you open? I sure as **** wouldn't.
 
I knew it was time for another one of these threads. It's been practically 2 weeks since the previous one!
 
FYI, I'm not the one who answered "yes", whoever did was probably kidding
 
I'd do it for $70,000... $55,000 if medical school was free.
 
Minimum wage for the rest of my life? No.

:edit: BTW thanks for the 13000th thread asking this question.
 
To quote a better orator than myself.

Panda Bear said:
It doesn't matter because as long as I can make $60,000 a year as a physician I will be happy. Most people live pretty well on less than that and I can't imagine needing any more to be happy. In fact, just asking about salary shows that you are going into medicine for the wrong reasons and you may need to reconsider your career goals. As long as the underserved have no access to medical care, I would be embarrassed to ask them to spend their cigarette money on medicine while I wallow in the luxury that $60,000 per year will buy.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7026222
< /sarcasm >

OP, this subject has been bludgeoned and tenderized and minced ad nauseum on SDN. The indisputable fact is that yes, earning potential is a draw to medicine, and yes, it will have a very real impact on your future happiness, and yes, its an area teetering on a precarious precipice right now.

Now proceed to go ride your unicorn into the african wildernesss and go cure malaria with your magical stethoscope.
 
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I love medicine but I would never go that into debt to make minimum wage. I would never be able to have a family which is my other dream.
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.


Then "some" people are idiots. Medicine is a job. Nobody with an inkling of intelligence would choose eight years of education plus three to eight years of training to work a job making the same as a pimple faced teenager at McDonald's.

Money is always a factor when entering any profession. Before I decided to quit my job and start my postbacc, I asked myself if the sacrifice was worth the salary I'd make and the job satisfaction I'd have after I completed my training. I went for it based on those two factors.

Otherwise I'd rather be doing something else.
 
Four people actually voted YES???

Wow, you guys have **** for brains.
 
If I went to four years of undergrad, prepped for the MCAT, spent THOUSANDS applying, four years in medical school, 3-7 years in residency and ended up getting paid by 'the hour' or the same as some kid flipping burgers ... I'd want to kill myself.
 
Probably idealistic pre-meds who don't know what they are really going into.

No, the idealistic premeds are the ones that think they'll be rich (truthfully not many doctors will be)
 
In fairness, I know a great surgeon who said that "I would do this for free," and probably meant it. But most doctors are not as obsessed with what they do.
 
No, the idealistic premeds are the ones that think they'll be rich (truthfully not many doctors will be)
But many doctors will make a decent living. Money-wise, that's all I'm asking for, a decent living. I want to be able to fill my gas tank without having to gripe about prices. I want to be able to feed my family, to buy my wife nice things, to send my kids to nice schools, to live in a neighborhood where we won't get shot up. I mean, how can we take care of others if we don't take care of ourselves first?
 
In fairness, I know a great surgeon who said that "I would do this for free," and probably meant it. But most doctors are not as obsessed with what they do.

Is the person an older doctor (60 or older) that has finished paying off his loans and has a comfortable living with a nice amount in his savings account?

If yes, then surprise surprise.

If no, then I would be very surprised. Props to him.
 
But many doctors will make a decent living. Money-wise, that's all I'm asking for, a decent living. I want to be able to fill my gas tank without having to gripe about prices. I want to be able to feed my family, to buy my wife nice things, to send my kids to schools, to live in a neighborhood where we won't get shot up. I mean, how can we take care of others if we don't take care of ourselves first?

That is true, and most doctors will be able to do that (as long as they live within their means). But most will not be living in extravagance or "the high life", as in $1.5M+ house, expensive car, or other things that naive premeds dream of.
 
That is true, and most doctors will be able to do that (as long as they live within their means). But most will not be living in extravagance or "the high life", as in $1.5M+ house, expensive car, or other things that naive premeds dream of.

True, most doctors wont have celebrity status when it comes to living, but when "decent" is used in this context (for doctors) it means pretty good living.
 
Is the person an older doctor (60 or older) that has finished paying off his loans and has a comfortable living with a nice amount in his savings account?

If yes, then surprise surprise.

If no, then I would be very surprised. Props to him.

Not that old. Could be much richer in private practice but is in academics. A true obsession for surgery, which probably helps one get through the training and harsh lifestyle. When he is in the OR or talking about surgery, you can see how happy it makes him. Outside of surgery, you don't see doctors like this much.
 
That is true, and most doctors will be able to do that (as long as they live within their means). But most will not be living in extravagance or "the high life", as in $1.5M+ house, expensive car, or other things that naive premeds dream of.
You talk of one extreme and then you talk of another. What's your point? We can argue all night long about the true definition of an "idealistic" premed, but the fact of the matter is there's no way in hell I'd be a doctor if in the end I was making minimum wage or just scraping by. Would I become a doctor if I earned $1 million+ a year? Hell yes. Do you know why? Because why the hell not? But all I ask for is enough.
 
I think I hit "yes" on accident. Anyways, this is not a very practical question. The responsibilities and pressures that face a doctor are enough to justify a certain level of compensation, especially when those responsibilities and pressures are compared to other professions. Also, most people who earn minimum wage are miserable; I wouldn't want an unhappy person as my doctor. In fact, that's usually how I look at other premeds, "is this person some one I would want as MY doctor." Not always, but very often, an individuals who make more money, make more because they are very good at what they do.
 
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In fairness, I know a great surgeon who said that &quot;I would do this for free,&quot; and probably meant it. But most doctors are not as obsessed with what they do.
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Well saying you'll work for free is pretty easy when you're loaded...</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I'm not saying, I'm just saying...you know?</p>
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I doubt many physicians would be willing to work for minimum wage from the get-go...maybe after a set amount of time allowing them to pay off debt
 
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If I went to four years of undergrad, prepped for the MCAT, spent THOUSANDS applying, four years in medical school, 3-7 years in residency and ended up getting paid by 'the hour' or the same as some kid flipping burgers ... I'd want to kill myself.

1. Finally JP and I agree on something.

2. :troll: :bang:
 
You know, I wish I could make a poll that goes like...

"when you start a ******ed thread or poll, do you feel stupid the next day when you look at it again?"

(a) Yes, I feel stupid. I can't believe I hit the submit button.

(b) Yes, I feel stupid, but not as stupid as I should feel.

(c) All of the above
 
First, if you take out over $200k in student loans you will never be able to service them on minimum wage. Residents earn slightly more than minimum wage (per week, less by hour) and most feel the need to defer their loan payments because they find they can't do both that and pay the bills. So it's not a financially sound move. Most undergrads have never worked full time and had to pay the bills of a household so they don't have a good idea of how little minimum wage buys you. And once you have a family and a mortgage on top of student loans, you simply aren't capable of living a minimum wage lifestyle. There's a reason that minimum wage jobs have incredibly high turnover -- everyone wants to live better than this. There is simply no reason that someone who went to 4 years of college, 4 years of med school and probably 4 years of residency training should be paid the exact same as the kid who dropped out of high school 15 years earlier. Even if you don't make bank you need to at least make a return on your time investment

Second, since about 50% of applicants (and a greater percent of premeds) won't get into a US med school, it makes total sense to me that there are probably sad sack's out there who think this way -- that it's not fair that they can't become doctors and that they would genuinely do it for a fraction of the price. Living out your dream for a fraction of the salary is better than not at all. And there are plenty of countries in the world where doctor is a low paid job, so there is certainly precedent for this -- there are people out there who will do the job because it makes them happy, even if it makes them broke.

Finally, there's the whole altruism thing. A few weeks back someone put a very interesting news clip on the board of some dude in upstate NY who is practicing medicine for nearly nothing and using whatever money he earns to buy medicine and birthday cakes for his patients. And you will come across more than a few rural FPs who take chickens and venison as payment from their impoverished patients (a la Doc Hollywood), because that's what they have to pay with and there's no other doctor around. so yeah, there will always be mother theresa types out there who want to accomplish something other than earn a living, and I really have no problem with that. I have seen no convincing argument that such a person is a better "doctor", although he might be a better person. I personally don't consider altruism to be the any better a motivation than earning a living -- both should be side perqs for the job, and neither should be your primary motivation to go into a field. Actually being interested in and wanting to do the job and what it entails should be the real motivation. (Basically you should want to perform the tasks involved in being a doctor, and as a side benefit if you can earn a living and help people, that's great, but those latter things really shouldn't be your primary driving force). If giving away your services makes you happy, then go for it. But it shouldn't and needn't be your business model.

Go live and work in some impoverished area where folks can't pay your bills and have no insurance. Go be a missionary. That's great. But don't suggest that anyone else in the field ought to follow in your path. One or two folks like this in every crowd is sustainable. Having a lot in every crowd is damaging -- the better folks in the profession who not only want to be a doctor but also have a family and home ownership (not really haughty goals) simply won't be able to be a doctor and maintain these other dreams and so the profession will lose a big chunk of them. Bad idea for medicine. Having doctors paid poorly in other countries tends to mean the "best and brightest" move to other fields or other countries. The profession of medicine is taking many many financial hits already, with salaries losing ground against inflation for a decade and with reimbursements continuing to decline, and so it's not really helpful having foolhardy folks like the OP suggesting that "some say" minimum wage after maximum tuition is of import. Good doctors and adcoms don't suggest this. Missionaries and unsuccessful med school applicants may say this.
 
Depends on how much debt I would get after all the schooling/training. NO way I'll work minimum wage with 100K+ in debt...

Debt exists beyond med school student loans. If you ever want to take out a mortgage or send your kids to college you may have to take on this kind of obligation even if your own tuition were eliminated.
 
read response #42 again.


even if med school was free, i wouldn't do it. minimum wage? like federal minimum wage? are you serious? no way.



just think, everyone in the hospital around you, below you, cleaning piss pots, serving you chowder in the cafeteria...everybody will be making way more money than you.

to be fair to the OP, it had been at least a week and a half since the last poll like this one... and at least we went to the bottom now (minimum wage)
a single person barely will survive minimum wage (not federal standards though...that is death) not a family. boo poll 👎
 
Either minimum wage or hardly enough to get by (using every spare penny for debt repayment)

Some say if your answer is no, then you should not go into medicine.

Like someone here

I have a feeling you've never actually held a real job.
 
That is true, and most doctors will be able to do that (as long as they live within their means). But most will not be living in extravagance or "the high life", as in $1.5M+ house, expensive car, or other things that naive premeds dream of.

I like how doctors make 'good money'. The average household income is ~$48,000 a year BEFORE TAXES. Even family practice doctors clear nearly $90,000 a year AFTER TAXES. If you don't want to deal with student loans then do the HPSP or FAP program and they'll gladly pay off your $200k in loans. Either way you break it, doctors earn MUCH more money than the average person.
 
Absolutely not. At the end of the day medicine is still a job, and minimum wage is just not enough for me to provide for my (future) family. Not only this, but as a physician, you are a highly trained individual who has gone through many years of school. IF you are good, you should earn more as a reflection of this expertise.
 
I like how doctors make 'good money'. The average household income is ~$48,000 a year BEFORE TAXES. Even family practice doctors clear nearly $90,000 a year AFTER TAXES. If you don't want to deal with student loans then do the HPSP or FAP program and they'll gladly pay off your $200k in loans. Either way you break it, doctors earn MUCH more money than the average person.

Not so impressive when you factor in the 10+ years of income (and interest thereon) the average person earns while the doctor is effectively out of the work force learning his trade. But comparing someone with the most extensive professional schooling and training to the "average" household is bizarre. The average person did not invest the same kind of time and human capital. There is simply no reason to compare someone who took a professional path to average. You need to compare apples to apples. So if you want to compare someone with 4 years of post college education and 3+ years of training to other professions in this same grouping, then that's fine. But I don't get the average. You spent more time and money to get to where you are. your grades and scores were far higher throughout school than the average or you would never get into med school. Thus, if you didn't earn more than average, something would be horribly wrong with the system.

The places that forgive the student loans do so because you are forgoing a much higher salary doing primary care for underserved populations. Meaning either you could take a better job but have to pay off the $200k of debt, or you could enter one of these programs and earn about that much less but have no debt. It tends to be a wash, and so is only beneficial for folks who wanted to do that kind of medicine in the first place. So no, that's not really a solution for anyone.
 
Yeh, I don't get the comparison with average either. Med students are academically in the top 3% of the population (there about, depending on how you crunch the numbers). So a projected comparison with the median makes little sense to me, not even considering everything else that differentiates the profession, which would presumably set it apart even further.
 
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