If Drumph wins, I’ll blame the democrats.

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Man, the Ukraine thing is a sticky wicket.

It is feeding the military industrial complex and we can see evidence of the powers pushing it for this reason, so “they” can make millions.

But also, we should defend Ukraine because we promised them we would, and as pgg has eloquently pointed out, it is massively beneficial for us to weaken Russia.

I can certainly see why anyone could argue from either side and have great talking points that are essentially true.
 
FutureInternist said:
Its always a battle b/w 2 evils… Rep consistently have more evil policies

Forced pregnancies
Forced births
Cuts to social programs that help feed the poor
Tax cuts for corporations
Anti-LGBT
Anti-women
Anti-minority

There is no hate like the “love” of these “Christians”
Click to expand...
Also, I should point out - you reveal that you argue from a fallacious standpoint when you use language like “forced pregnancies”. No one is forcing someone to get pregnant. That is also called rape and pregnancy from rape is an entirely different subject.
 
epidural man said:
Also, I should point out - you reveal that you argue from a fallacious standpoint when you use language like “forced pregnancies”. No one is forcing someone to get pregnant. That is also called rape and pregnancy from rape is an entirely different subject.
Click to expand...

🤦‍♂️…
Not allowing someone to escape is same as forcibly keeping someone against their will…

Same here..

And again, arguing semantics is fine & good but it doesn’t take away from the fact that so many of Republican policies are fascist in nature… and if teaching TRUE US history offends their lily-white base then by golly they sure will ban it.

Keeping folks dumb & ignorant is how they get so many to vote against their own interests.
 

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FutureInternist said:
🤦‍♂️…
Not allowing someone to escape is same as forcibly keeping someone against their will…

Same here..

And again, arguing semantics is fine & good but it doesn’t take away from the fact that so many of Republican policies are fascist in nature… and if teaching TRUE US history offends their lily-white base then by golly they sure will ban it.

Keeping folks dumb & ignorant is how they get so many to vote against their own interests.
Click to expand...
Oh boy.

Okay I’ll bite.

But first, please define fascism.

(Most would say (since the word means a bundle) that fascism is when the state is authoritarian, controls the media, and controls corporations.)

Also, I don’t follow what your point is that keeping someone trapped and not letting someone leave is the same thing. What did that have to do with someone getting pregnant? I’m still very confused that you think people are forced to become pregnant outside of rape.
 
epidural man said:
Because we promised Ukraine we would 100% support them if they didnt develop nuclear weapons. They did what they said they would do. Should we be a people of our word? Or should we say like we did 1000x with native Americans “haha. You are so dumb for trusting us.”
Click to expand...


Ukraine had a lot of nukes, they didn’t need to develop them. And Russia made a similar promise to Ukraine.


theconversation.com

Ukraine got a signed commitment in 1994 to ensure its security – but can the US and allies stop Putin’s aggression now?

As Russia threatens to invade Ukraine, Ukrainians wonder about the worth of a 1994 agreement signed by Russia, the US and the UK, who promised to protect the newly independent state’s sovereignty.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
 
FutureInternist said:
🤦‍♂️…
Not allowing someone to escape is same as forcibly keeping someone against their will…

Same here..

And again, arguing semantics is fine & good but it doesn’t take away from the fact that so many of Republican policies are fascist in nature… and if teaching TRUE US history offends their lily-white base then by golly they sure will ban it.

Keeping folks dumb & ignorant is how they get so many to vote against their own interests.
Click to expand...
When you use deliberately provocative, and obviously false/disingenuous phrases like "forced pregnancy" it's clear you're just venting and not really arguing in good faith, or with the intent of convincing anyone.

There's a place for hyperbole in debate but I think it has to be self aware, spoken with a smirk or written with a smiley, to be effective. You come across as actually seriously believing that "forced pregnancies" are a thing and it undermines the rest of your argument. It makes you look like you just clicked over from WitchesVsPatriarchy with a 50/50 blend of armpit hair and cat fur. 🙂
 
pgg said:
When you use deliberately provocative, and obviously false/disingenuous phrases like "forced pregnancy" it's clear you're just venting and not really arguing in good faith, or with the intent of convincing anyone.

There's a place for hyperbole in debate but I think it has to be self aware, spoken with a smirk or written with a smiley, to be effective. You come across as actually seriously believing that "forced pregnancies" are a thing and it undermines the rest of your argument. It makes you look like you just clicked over from WitchesVsPatriarchy with a 50/50 blend of armpit hair and cat fur. 🙂
Click to expand...
Eh, personally I think the term forced pregnancy is an appropriate response to the pervading words on the conservative side where every abortion is a murder and must be stopped at all costs. It's hyperbole with a purpose.
 
pgg said:
When you use deliberately provocative, and obviously false/disingenuous phrases like "forced pregnancy" it's clear you're just venting and not really arguing in good faith, or with the intent of convincing anyone.

There's a place for hyperbole in debate but I think it has to be self aware, spoken with a smirk or written with a smiley, to be effective. You come across as actually seriously believing that "forced pregnancies" are a thing and it undermines the rest of your argument. It makes you look like you just clicked over from WitchesVsPatriarchy with a 50/50 blend of armpit hair and cat fur. 🙂
Click to expand...
It’s forced if you don’t want it and can’t terminate it.
 
pgg said:
When you use deliberately provocative, and obviously false/disingenuous phrases like "forced pregnancy" it's clear you're just venting and not really arguing in good faith, or with the intent of convincing anyone.

There's a place for hyperbole in debate but I think it has to be self aware, spoken with a smirk or written with a smiley, to be effective. You come across as actually seriously believing that "forced pregnancies" are a thing and it undermines the rest of your argument. It makes you look like you just clicked over from WitchesVsPatriarchy with a 50/50 blend of armpit hair and cat fur. 🙂
Click to expand...

Some would argue that saying “abortion is murder” is hyperbole.
 
pgg said:
When you use deliberately provocative, and obviously false/disingenuous phrases like "forced pregnancy" it's clear you're just venting and not really arguing in good faith, or with the intent of convincing anyone.

There's a place for hyperbole in debate but I think it has to be self aware, spoken with a smirk or written with a smiley, to be effective. You come across as actually seriously believing that "forced pregnancies" are a thing and it undermines the rest of your argument. It makes you look like you just clicked over from WitchesVsPatriarchy with a 50/50 blend of armpit hair and cat fur. 🙂
Click to expand...

His post would be hyperbole if it weren't for the number of states post-Dobbs which banned abortion with no rape exception
 
I find the entire political discussion rather pointless as we all watch Rome burn to the ground. Both parties poured gasoline on the fire then lit the matches. I feel very concerned for everyone here under the age of 40 that this nation will be third world before they die.


www.globaltimes.cn

Ballooning US debt a ticking time bomb for world economy - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn
 
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BLADEMDA said:
I find the entire political discussion rather pointless as we all watch Rome burn to the ground. Both parties poured gasoline on the fire then lit the matches. I feel very concerned for everyone here under the age of 40 that this nation will be third world before they die.
Click to expand...

Declinism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Don't fall for it. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic for America's future. People like Blade have been prognosticating America's decline and fall for 80 years. The idea that we will become a "third world" nation is ridiculous on etymological grounds alone. (The terms "First, Second and Third World" are holdovers for Cold War alignment, not indicators of economic development/collapse.)

Comparisons to the Fall of Rome or Britain are perennial among the doomers. Was January 6th equivalent to the Cataline conspiracy with Liz Cheney standing in for Cicero in the aftermath? Please.

There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about America's future:
- wealth and wage inequality has been declining over the past decade
- large (partially) bipartisan infrastructure bills were signed into law (CHIPs and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act)
- unemployment is less than 4%
- huge investments in clean energy development are starting to bear fruit especially in red states

Plenty of problems too to be sure, but the doomerism isn't warranted for the vast majority of Americans.
 
pgg said:
When you use deliberately provocative, and obviously false/disingenuous phrases like "forced pregnancy" it's clear you're just venting and not really arguing in good faith, or with the intent of convincing anyone.

There's a place for hyperbole in debate but I think it has to be self aware, spoken with a smirk or written with a smiley, to be effective. You come across as actually seriously believing that "forced pregnancies" are a thing and it undermines the rest of your argument. It makes you look like you just clicked over from WitchesVsPatriarchy with a 50/50 blend of armpit hair and cat fur. 🙂
Click to expand...

Would forced “continued” pregnancy be OK…
Either way.. its semantics.

There are many other things that I mentioned… but I don’t see you arguing against those 🙄
 
rowsdower88 said:

Declinism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Don't fall for it. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic for America's future. People like Blade have been prognosticating America's decline and fall for 80 years. The idea that we will become a "third world" nation is ridiculous on etymological grounds alone. (The terms "First, Second and Third World" are holdovers for Cold War alignment, not indicators of economic development/collapse.)

Comparisons to the Fall of Rome or Britain are perennial among the doomers. Was January 6th equivalent to the Cataline conspiracy with Liz Cheney standing in for Cicero in the aftermath? Please.

There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about America's future:
- wealth and wage inequality has been declining over the past decade
- large (partially) bipartisan infrastructure bills were signed into law (CHIPs and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act)
- unemployment is less than 4%
- huge investments in clean energy development are starting to bear fruit especially in red states

Plenty of problems too to be sure, but the doomerism isn't warranted for the vast majority of Americans.
Click to expand...
Every nation eventually declines. Do I want to see my children’s future be better than mine? Yes. But, can any of you explain how 50 trillion in debt will be dealt with by the nation? Is there a debt which does concern you? 100 trillion? PGG once said the debt doesn’t matter until one day it does. Remember, interest rates of 4% means this country must dedicate a larger portion of taxes towards interest repayment. The law of large numbers states this isn’t sustainable

Financial Report of the United States Government - Executive Summary - An Unsustainable Fiscal Path

www.fiscal.treasury.gov www.fiscal.treasury.gov

Conclusion​

  • Projections in the Financial Report indicate that the government’s debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to rise over the 75-year projection period and beyond if current policy is kept in place. The projections in this Financial Report show that current policy is not sustainable.
  • If changes in fiscal policy are not so abrupt as to slow economic growth and those policy changes are adopted earlier, then the required changes to revenue and/or spending will be smaller to return the government to a sustainable fiscal path.
 
rowsdower88 said:

Declinism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Don't fall for it. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic for America's future. People like Blade have been prognosticating America's decline and fall for 80 years. The idea that we will become a "third world" nation is ridiculous on etymological grounds alone. (The terms "First, Second and Third World" are holdovers for Cold War alignment, not indicators of economic development/collapse.)

Comparisons to the Fall of Rome or Britain are perennial among the doomers. Was January 6th equivalent to the Cataline conspiracy with Liz Cheney standing in for Cicero in the aftermath? Please.

There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about America's future:
- wealth and wage inequality has been declining over the past decade
- large (partially) bipartisan infrastructure bills were signed into law (CHIPs and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act)
- unemployment is less than 4%
- huge investments in clean energy development are starting to bear fruit especially in red states

Plenty of problems too to be sure, but the doomerism isn't warranted for the vast majority of Americans.
Click to expand...

Most of us are in the enviable position of being able to buy our way out of the fascist policies that Republicans are putting forth… so its mostly good for us
 
BLADEMDA said:
Every nation eventually declines. Do I want to see my children’s future be better than mine? Yes. But, can any of you explain how 50 trillion in debt will be dealt with by the nation? Is there a debt which does concern you? 100 trillion? PGG once said the debt doesn’t matter until one day it does. Remember, interest rates of 4% means this country must dedicate a larger portion of taxes towards interest repayment. The law of large numbers states this isn’t sustainable

Financial Report of the United States Government - Executive Summary - An Unsustainable Fiscal Path

www.fiscal.treasury.gov www.fiscal.treasury.gov

Conclusion​

  • Projections in the Financial Report indicate that the government’s debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to rise over the 75-year projection period and beyond if current policy is kept in place. The projections in this Financial Report show that current policy is not sustainable.
  • If changes in fiscal policy are not so abrupt as to slow economic growth and those policy changes are adopted earlier, then the required changes to revenue and/or spending will be smaller to return the government to a sustainable fiscal path.
Click to expand...

Taxes and inflation baby.

Going to take time but now that we aren't spending for two wars and have devoted more funding to the IRS, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw progress towards paying it down. Biden's recent budget proposal suggests deficit reduction of $3 trillion over the next decade. I'm sure whatever compromise is reached with R's will be even more austere. Relax, it's not the end of the US yet.

apnews.com

Biden rolls out budget plan, challenges GOP to follow suit

President Joe Biden chose a union training center in Philadelphia to lay out his new 10-year budget proposal and challenge congressional Republicans to release their own spending blueprint.
apnews.com apnews.com

FutureInternist said:
Most of us are in the enviable position of being able to buy our way out of the fascist policies that Republicans are putting forth… so its mostly good for us
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's going to suck for Trans people and others for the foreseeable future. No doubt. But I was responding to the idea that the US is on the verge of becoming a failed state. Blade over there has his "go bag" and is ready to flee to a compound in Montana. I don't have Steven Pinker levels of optimism, but I think there are good reasons to think better days are ahead.
 
FutureInternist said:
Most of us are in the enviable position of being able to buy our way out of the fascist policies that Republicans are putting forth… so its mostly good for us
Click to expand...
I dont think we can buy our way out for long. Dow at 31,900 today. 2nd largest bank failure in US history happened today. Russia's use of the yuan has risen about 30% with trade involving China. This in an effort to insulate themselves from US sanctions in the future. Should the US Dollar lose World Reserve Currency status, we could easily become Britain. Bidens proposed budget, most likely a fantasy, but still, is loaded with inflationary items, which won't stem inflation and lagging wage growth if many of them are implemented. Sending equipment to Ukraine can stimulate our economy to a degree, but at the cost of new debt foisted on the taxpayer as interest rates continue to rise. Economic forecasts aren't favorable the next couple quarters. Who knows how bad it will get? I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about my economic outlook in retirement.
 
Last edited:
rowsdower88 said:
Taxes and inflation baby.

Going to take time but now that we aren't spending for two wars and have devoted more funding to the IRS, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw progress towards paying it down. Biden's recent budget proposal suggests deficit reduction of $3 trillion over the next decade. I'm sure whatever compromise is reached with R's will be even more austere. Relax, it's not the end of the US yet.

apnews.com

Biden rolls out budget plan, challenges GOP to follow suit

President Joe Biden chose a union training center in Philadelphia to lay out his new 10-year budget proposal and challenge congressional Republicans to release their own spending blueprint.
apnews.com apnews.com



Yeah, it's going to suck for Trans people and others for the foreseeable future. No doubt. But I was responding to the idea that the US is on the verge of becoming a failed state. Blade over there has his "go bag" and is ready to flee to a compound in Montana. I don't have Steven Pinker levels of optimism, but I think there are good reasons to think better days are ahead.
Click to expand...

Republicans - “What fascism”

Also Republicans -
www.wfla.com

Parents seeking treatments for trans kids could lose custody of child under new Florida bill

Child custody may become a political football amid Florida’s political process, with a state lawmaker filing legislation to allow divorced parents to remove a child from a parents’ care…
www.wfla.com

Democrats meanwhile -
 

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Angus Avagadro said:
Should the US Dollar lose World Reserve Currency status, we could easily become Britain
Click to expand...

If you had to put money on it, how likely of an event do you think this is in the next 10 years? I would wager $1000 against the idea that the $ will lose World Reserve Currency Status within 10yrs, you in? PM me bro


FutureInternist said:
Republicans - “What fascism”
Click to expand...

Yeah man, Rs are pretty fascy, no arguments against that here. I suppose you could argue they're an existential threat to the US if their policies continue, but that's going to take a lot of arguing and I'm a little skeptical. Like maybe we're one President Boebert away from becoming a failed state? Idk. Just as there are ways to tackle climate change, there are ways to combat authoritarianism.
 
rowsdower88 said:
Yeah man, Rs are pretty fascy, no arguments against that here. I suppose you could argue they're an existential threat to the US if their policies continue, but that's going to take a lot of arguing and I'm a little skeptical. Like maybe we're one President Boebert away from becoming a failed state? Idk. Just as there are ways to tackle climate change, there are ways to combat authoritarianism.
Click to expand...

The threat here is that we have a very unbalanced system of govt, especially as time has gone on and Congressional apportionment has not kept up. The Founders had in mind 1 US Rep per 30,000 constituents. We currently have 1 rep per ~760,000 as of 2023 which obviously severely disadvantages cities and densely populated areas which skew dem. Combine that with the silliness of the EC system, only having two senators per state, and the fact that the president gets to nominate justices for life... and you have a result where Republicans are immensely (and undeservingly) advantaged despite not having popular policies.

Furthermore, they know this current system is not sustainable. It's why you have Nikki Haley pointing out that ""We’ve lost the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 presidential elections"......" Our cause is right, but we have failed to win the confidence of a majority of Americans. Well, that ends today.”"

Too bad Nikki doesn't realize that losing 7 out of 8 means your cause maybe, just maybe isn't right.
 
vector2 said:
The threat here is that we have a very unbalanced system of govt, especially as time has gone on and Congressional apportionment has not kept up. The Founders had in mind 1 US Rep per 30,000 constituents. We currently have 1 rep per ~760,000 as of 2023 which obviously severely disadvantages cities and densely populated areas which skew dem. Combine that with the silliness of the EC system, only having two senators per state, and the fact that the president gets to nominate justices for life... and you have a result where Republicans are immensely (and undeservingly) advantaged despite not having popular policies.

Furthermore, they know this current system is not sustainable. It's why you have Nikki Haley pointing out that ""We’ve lost the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 presidential elections"......" Our cause is right, but we have failed to win the confidence of a majority of Americans. Well, that ends today.”"

Too bad Nikki doesn't realize that losing 7 out of 8 means your cause maybe, just maybe isn't right.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that. I think you and I would have similar goals wrt congressional and EC reapportionment to be more representative of people and not land.

But do you think the disproportionate advantage that R's carry electorally suggests we're approaching a scenario similar to what Blade was suggesting i.e. Fall of Rome? Do you agree with Declinism on an imminent timeframe except substituting Republican political advantage for overly burdensome National Debt?

Edit: There are even reasons to be positive wrt undemocratic advantages as well. There is significant talk on the Left regarding SCOTUS reform. There is talk about doing away with the filibuster (double edged sword for sure). Wrt the EC we're 72% of the way to securing the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact too! National Popular Vote Interstate Compact - Wikipedia

Many significant reasons to argue against Declinism and the Doomers.
 
vector2 said:
Furthermore, they know this current system is not sustainable. It's why you have Nikki Haley pointing out that ""We’ve lost the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 presidential elections"......" Our cause is right, but we have failed to win the confidence of a majority of Americans. Well, that ends today.”"

Too bad Nikki doesn't realize that losing 7 out of 8 means your cause maybe, just maybe isn't right.
Click to expand...

The recent election of the Speaker of The House was a lesson on how the minority and unpopular opinion can ruin things for everyone else. A lesson I’m sure that was lost on most of them.
 
rowsdower88 said:
I don't disagree. I still think it's a step in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...
Oh I hear you. I am a big fan of the Rome Statute and its ratification. All likely war criminals should be investigated, and that includes any Americans.
 
rowsdower88 said:
I agree with all of that. I think you and I would have similar goals wrt congressional and EC reapportionment to be more representative of people and not land.

But do you think the disproportionate advantage that R's carry electorally suggests we're approaching a scenario similar to what Blade was suggesting i.e. Fall of Rome? Do you agree with Declinism on an imminent timeframe except substituting Republican political advantage for overly burdensome National Debt?

Edit: There are even reasons to be positive wrt undemocratic advantages as well. There is significant talk on the Left regarding SCOTUS reform. There is talk about doing away with the filibuster (double edged sword for sure). Wrt the EC we're 72% of the way to securing the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact too! National Popular Vote Interstate Compact - Wikipedia

Many significant reasons to argue against Declinism and the Doomers.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wasn't really commenting on declinism or doom, but just rather that the GOP has a decidedly un - small d - democratic bent when it comes to national level politics. They would rather cement power through procedural/political means and voter suppression rather than actually have to win a popular vote. You combine that with their love of strongdaddy idiots like trump and you can see where it's not a stretch to say the modern gop, while obviously not outright fascist, has protofascist or fascistic tendencies (like Bolsonaro, Orban etc)
 

Increase the wealthy’s ACA tax: $344.37 billion​

Biden’s budget calls for increasing the 3.8% Affordable Care Act tax to 5% on Americans earning more than $400,000. The increase would go towards bolstering Medicare.

Close ACA tax loopholes: $305.94 billion​

This is another reform that would help shore up Medicare. If enacted, it would close the loophole to ensure the Obamacare tax is always applied to high earners’ so-called “pass-through businesses” where income flows to individual returns.

Increase top marginal income tax: $235.26 billion​

Building off of the billionaires’ tax, Biden’s budget outlines bumping the top payroll tax rate to 39.6%, up from 37%, on Americans making more than $400,000 annually and married couples earning more than $450,000 a year. If enacted, the income tax hike would reverse cuts made by former President Donald Trump in his 2017 tax bill.
 
Obamacare/ACA Tax is NOT indexed for inflation. That means it hits a lot more Americans in 2024 and even more in 2025 with inflation running at 6%. Second, 39.6% plus State tax for all income over $450,000 (married couples) is pretty steep if you ask me. Again, with inflation that should be a higher income.

Ultimately, taxes will be going up soon regardless of who wins the White House in 2024 but the question is how much?
 
The numbers on the left are the pre Trump Tax Cut era rates. I suspect that the middle class tax rates will remain unchanged but the tax rates for incomes over $450K will go back to 39.6%. Possibly, Congress will even add a 37% bracket in there.

1678554225961.png
 
BLADEMDA said:
Click to expand...


Sounds fine? I think taxes should go up on high earners. We're nowhere near the income tax rates of the 60's and 70's. The only thing I question is the "investment income tax", I don't know how popular that is or what it entails, we already have capital gains and dividend taxes. I would want to know more about it.
 
rowsdower88 said:
Sounds fine? I think taxes should go up on high earners. We're nowhere near the income tax rates of the 60's and 70's. The only thing I question is the "investment income tax", I don't know how popular that is or what it entails, we already have capital gains and dividend taxes. I would want to know more about it.
Click to expand...
Exactly, a 2-8% increase on tax on income over 400k isn't going to do much harm on the people earning that and if we are serious about trying to shore up the future for our kids we all need to pitch in. I am similarly fine on going after all the sweetheart capital gains rates (even though this will eventually hit me), estate taxes to avoid all the scammy step up basis bull****, and trying to capture tax on people who are wealthy enough to not need to earn money by a wage. It still baffles the mind how many politician can get elected on the premise of defending the wealthiest people in the world from paying taxes with one breath but scream about the deficit in the other while also promising not to cut anything that actually drives the budget in this country.

I come from a family with no estate that lived in near poverty, I will get 0 inheritance but even if I was due for the millions many of my colleagues are expecting would I really be upset if a chunk of that got taken for taxes knowing that it was free money I didn't even earn? Ridiculous.
 
chessknt said:
Exactly, a 2-8% increase on tax on income over 400k isn't going to do much harm on the people earning that and if we are serious about trying to shore up the future for our kids we all need to pitch in. I am similarly fine on going after all the sweetheart capital gains rates (even though this will eventually hit me), estate taxes to avoid all the scammy step up basis bull****, and trying to capture tax on people who are wealthy enough to not need to earn money by a wage. It still baffles the mind how many politician can get elected on the premise of defending the wealthiest people in the world from paying taxes with one breath but scream about the deficit in the other while also promising not to cut anything that actually drives the budget in this country.

I come from a family with no estate that lived in near poverty, I will get 0 inheritance but even if I was due for the millions many of my colleagues are expecting would I really be upset if a chunk of that got taken for taxes knowing that it was free money I didn't even earn? Ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Increase coorporate taxes, capital gains and other non w2 income, and lower the earned income tax rate for all, every middle class worker would be on board. Every republican, and a lot of democrats, would not be on board unfortunately.
 
dipriMAN said:
When a republican actually does something to help my tax situation significantly I will be all on board and vote for them.
Click to expand...

One hopes that there are other metrics… like equal rights for all, less voter disenfranchisement, higher corporate taxes, less religious fanaticism
 
dipriMAN said:
Agreed. Increase coorporate taxes, capital gains and other non w2 income, and lower the earned income tax rate for all, every middle class worker would be on board. Every republican, and a lot of democrats, would not be on board unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Lets start with the premise we need to raise taxes to pay down the national debt. Let's all agree the US govt. spends too much money. I can prove that govt. has increased spending well beyond inflation every year since 2010.

Now, the common sense approach is to raise some taxes while keeping a lid on govt. spending. But, we need to be careful not to raise investment taxes and corporate taxes to the point it hurts the economy and makes the USA not competitive with rest of the world.

I think raising the Medicare tax by 0.5% on everyone on all wages be a good place to start in shoring up the Medicare program. Maybe, at $450,000 you tack on another 1%? I am against massive corporate tax increases and stock buy back taxes which negatively impacts our economy, our investments and our 401Ks. But, the corporate tax rate needs to go up.

I actually support allowing the Trump tax cuts to expire because we are broke as a nation.
 
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