If I am a licensed psychologist, does it matter what my Ph.D. is in?

[psychologynbooks]

I have been accepted to Ph.D. programs in both school and clinical psychology. My top choice is a clinical Psy.D with an adolescent proficiency track. This school has waitlisted me, so I want to focus on the options that are real first. I hesitate to attend the clinical Ph.D. I'm accepted to b/c they only treat adults.

I know that counseling/school/and clinical students can become licensed. I compared the school/clinical curriculums of the schools I'm considering. They are pretty much identical. In fact, the school psych phd appears to be combined. I asked the professor (school psych phd) where students work post-grad and she says it's 50% schools/50% clinics/pp/etc. These students also have high apa match rates.

I want to work with children/adolescents (not adults), so this is why I applied to school psych. I know there is an ongoing debate about school vs. clinical programs, but if the classes/practicums in my program are the same... does it really matter? In the school psych one, I can choose to work in a clinic/hospital/or school each semester... Plus the program is 50% qualitative research...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[StellaB]

My understanding is that they can get the same license, but a degree in School Psych will limit your career options a lot more. Look at internship match rates (often very low for School Psych) and EPPP pass rates (typically lowest among School Psych) to get a sense of the hurdles to obtaining a license. Once licensed, other hurdles can persist (e.g. in my experience, far more employers will expect your degree to be in Clinical Psych). And a lot of clinical psychologists work exclusively with children/adolescents. You still need experiences with adults during grad school in order to develop the experience and knowledge base to pass the EPPP. Specialization is great, but you don't want to over-specialize very early on, because you learn a lot from the other experiences, even if you don't enjoy them as much.

 

[psych.meout]

Why did you apply to a PhD program that only focuses on adults if you don't want to treat adults? Were you honest about this during your interview?

 

[dynamicdog]

Is the program full school psych or a school/clinical program? I know/have worked with many psychologists from combined school/clinical programs who work exclusively in clinical settings and have not had (from what I can tell) difficulty doing so. I have nothing to back this up- just my own experience as a clinician who works pretty evenly with children and adults- but most of the people I have come across in my geographical area (NYC) who work at all with children come from school/clinical programs, or clinical programs like UHart with a child/adolescent track. IME, a lot of the clinical/counseling programs do not specifically train students for child work, and those, like myself, who have sought it out have done so completely through practica or other opportunities outside of my grad program. But to your question- I know very little about pure school psych programs. If the program in question is 50/50 for school/clinical placements- I might look/ask how they got there.

 

[Harry3990]

In fact, the school psych phd appears to be combined.

but a degree in School Psych will limit your career options a lot more.

If it is a combined clinical and school Ph.D. program that is APA accredited in both, my thought is that should NOT really limit your career options but will rather expand them because you will be eligible to be licensed in many states as a clinical psychologist and school psychologist (but please verify this as licensure laws differ by states, also verify with the school).

 

[dynamicdog]

I have been accepted to Ph.D. programs in both school and clinical psychology. My top choice is a clinical Psy.D with an adolescent proficiency track. This school has waitlisted me, so I want to focus on the options that are real first. I hesitate to attend the clinical Ph.D. I'm accepted to b/c they only treat adults.

I know that counseling/school/and clinical students can become licensed. I compared the school/clinical curriculums of the schools I'm considering. They are pretty much identical. In fact, the school psych phd appears to be combined. I asked the professor (school psych phd) where students work post-grad and she says it's 50% schools/50% clinics/pp/etc. These students also have high apa match rates.

I want to work with children/adolescents (not adults), so this is why I applied to school psych. I know there is an ongoing debate about school vs. clinical programs, but if the classes/practicums in my program are the same... does it really matter? In the school psych one, I can choose to work in a clinic/hospital/or school each semester... Plus the program is 50% qualitative research...

I also think it depends on what you want to do long term. If you want to do neuro peds or something more specialized, I imagine doing a school psych program will make that at best an uphill battle. If you want to work in community mental health, schools, or PP, you'll likely be fine.

 

[psychologynbooks]

My understanding is that they can get the same license, but a degree in School Psych will limit your career options a lot more. Look at internship match rates (often very low for School Psych) and EPPP pass rates (typically lowest among School Psych) to get a sense of the hurdles to obtaining a license. Once licensed, other hurdles can persist (e.g. in my experience, far more employers will expect your degree to be in Clinical Psych). And a lot of clinical psychologists work exclusively with children/adolescents. You still need experiences with adults during grad school in order to develop the experience and knowledge base to pass the EPPP. Specialization is great, but you don't want to over-specialize very early on, because you learn a lot from the other experiences, even if you don't enjoy them as much.

Thank you, this makes sense! The program is labeled as school psych but what is interesting is that the curriculum and practica are equally clinical/school. The eppp/apa match rates are also high which is unique for a school psych phd. I do understand gaining more diverse experiences, though. Perhaps if I did choose the school psych phd I could create my own experiences where I gain exposure to adult populations. Do you think having clinical experiences can supplement the need for employers to see a clinical doctorate degree? Or do they primarily care about the program title?

 

[psychologynbooks]

Is the program full school psych or a school/clinical program? I know/have worked with many psychologists from combined school/clinical programs who work exclusively in clinical settings and have not had (from what I can tell) difficulty doing so. I have nothing to back this up- just my own experience as a clinician who works pretty evenly with children and adults- but most of the people I have come across in my geographical area (NYC) who work at all with children come from school/clinical programs, or clinical programs like UHart with a child/adolescent track. IME, a lot of the clinical/counseling programs do not specifically train students for child work, and those, like myself, who have sought it out have done so completely through practica or other opportunities outside of my grad program. But to your question- I know very little about pure school psych programs. If the program in question is 50/50 for school/clinical placements- I might look/ask how they got there.

If it is a combined clinical and school Ph.D. program that is APA accredited in both, my thought is that should NOT really limit your career options but will rather expand them because you will be eligible to be licensed in many states as a clinical psychologist and school psychologist (but please verify this as licensure laws differ by states, also verify with the school).

Thank you! That's very helpful. The program is labeled school psych, but the curriculum and practica are entirely split half clinical/half school. It's also nice to know you were able to create your own experiences. My hope is that if I don't end up at Uhart (my top choice) I can make the school program more clinical or the clinical program more child-focused by getting outside internships!

Do you think experience matters more than the program title or is the opposite true/does it depend?

Why did you apply to a PhD program that only focuses on adults if you don't want to treat adults? Were you honest about this during your interview?

I knew programs were very competitive and figured it's better to have a program that isn't a perfect match than none at all. At my interview, I said I wanted to work with adults/adolescents but had both interests. (I do, but I definitely prefer working with children).

I also think it depends on what you want to do long term. If you want to do neuro peds or something more specialized, I imagine doing a school psych program will make that at best an uphill battle. If you want to work in community mental health, schools, or PP, you'll likely be fine.

That's a really good point. I definitely have a strong sense of what I want to do, and my interests all involve working in pp/clinics/schools/hospitals/etc. I do have interests such as trauma that a school psych program couldn't prepare me for. I'm hoping I could gain outside experiences in this case

__
I'm not sure if I'd be better off dealing with an adult-focused clinical program or not. I just didn't have that "I could see myself here" moment at the clinical phd interview, so I've been torn.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The school psych folks can speak more to their experiences with licensure, but to be licensed as a psychologist, you'd need to at least complete an (ideally APA-accredited) internship. This can be a bit tougher for school psych students to secure, but if you know from the beginning that it's your goal, you can try to tailor your training to make you competitive. You'd also want to be sure your coursework meets the criteria of whatever state licensing board(s) applies to you.

And I would strongly recommend against attending an adult clinical Ph.D. program if you plan on primarily or only seeing children and adolescents in your professional work. An adult program would likely not make you competent to do this, you'd potentially be quite unhappy during much of your graduate training, and you'd be taking that spot away from someone whose interests are better aligned with those of the training program.

 

[psych.meout]

I knew programs were very competitive and figured it's better to have a program that isn't a perfect match than none at all. At my interview, I said I wanted to work with adults/adolescents but had both interests. (I do, but I definitely prefer working with children).

I want to work with children/adolescents (not adults), so this is why I applied to school psych.

I'm confused. Do you or do you not want to work with adults?

 

[smalltownpsych]

I have been accepted to Ph.D. programs in both school and clinical psychology. My top choice is a clinical Psy.D with an adolescent proficiency track. This school has waitlisted me, so I want to focus on the options that are real first. I hesitate to attend the clinical Ph.D. I'm accepted to b/c they only treat adults.

I know that counseling/school/and clinical students can become licensed. I compared the school/clinical curriculums of the schools I'm considering. They are pretty much identical. In fact, the school psych phd appears to be combined. I asked the professor (school psych phd) where students work post-grad and she says it's 50% schools/50% clinics/pp/etc. These students also have high apa match rates.

I want to work with children/adolescents (not adults), so this is why I applied to school psych. I know there is an ongoing debate about school vs. clinical programs, but if the classes/practicums in my program are the same... does it really matter? In the school psych one, I can choose to work in a clinic/hospital/or school each semester... Plus the program is 50% qualitative research...

I am surprised that a clinical PhD program has only options for working with adults. If that is the case and you are sure you want to get experience with kids, then that would not be a very good choice. My own program had a mix of practicum opportunities that gave us the opportunity to experience various populations in various settings. The one requirement was that you had at least one year with kids and one with adults. Most internship sites will be looking for someone with broad experiences. Practicum opportunities lead to experience that sets you up for internship which sets you up for post-doc and eventually the job that you will have. Start broader because as you go things will change and narrow and it's difficult to predict at this point. I like to leave more doors open and tolerate the amibiguity rather than mitigate my anxiety by having a foreclosed identity.

 

[wtfook]

I have been accepted to Ph.D. programs in both school and clinical psychology. My top choice is a clinical Psy.D with an adolescent proficiency track. This school has waitlisted me, so I want to focus on the options that are real first. I hesitate to attend the clinical Ph.D. I'm accepted to b/c they only treat adults.

I know that counseling/school/and clinical students can become licensed. I compared the school/clinical curriculums of the schools I'm considering. They are pretty much identical. In fact, the school psych phd appears to be combined. I asked the professor (school psych phd) where students work post-grad and she says it's 50% schools/50% clinics/pp/etc. These students also have high apa match rates.

I want to work with children/adolescents (not adults), so this is why I applied to school psych. I know there is an ongoing debate about school vs. clinical programs, but if the classes/practicums in my program are the same... does it really matter? In the school psych one, I can choose to work in a clinic/hospital/or school each semester... Plus the program is 50% qualitative research...

I would say that generally speaking, you should go with the clinical PhD. Does the program advertise itself as STRICTLY adult? Like it says ADULT CLINICAL program? Or is it just a regular program but they happen to focus more on adult clinical experiences? Your academic training will pretty much be the same in all APA accredited programs just due to APA guidelines with some classes thrown in that track more toward the philosophy of the program type (clinical/school/counseling). But your statistics, assessments, basic master's level coursework, etc... should be about the same. I'm also interested in working with younger populations and so I chose to work with an advisor in my program who does research in that population so that my research tracks with my goals and will choose practicums in 3rd and 4th year that have a child/adolescent rotation or are strictly child/adolescent focused. Otherwise, as others have said, breadth of experience is important too. I'm part of Div53, the child and adolescent specialized division of the APA. They post job openings there a lot for positions ranging from research, hospital, outpatient, specialized clinic (anxiety, eating d/o, etc...), to a mixture of these. Many list qualifications as "clinical psych degree from an APA accredited institution" with others saying "clinical or counseling." Very few say simply "any psych degree from an APA accredited institution" and I have rarely seen (maybe 1 or 2) that specifically list school psych as a viable option. From that sample, I would suggest going the clinical route since it seems you're not exclusively interested in working in schools. Many non-school positions wont even consider you if you have a school psych PhD.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Wasn’t there a recent thread titled school psychology sucks? I would be wary of a degree that limited where you could practice. In theory, school psychology is important and could be very beneficial, but in practice they are pretty likely to stick you in a janitors closest with a desk. I have worked in schools myself but as a clinical psychologist either contracted with the school district or at a private and expensive therapeutic boarding school.

 

[wtfook]

Wasn’t there a recent thread titled school psychology sucks? I would be wary of a degree that limited where you could practice. In theory, school psychology is important and could be very beneficial, but in practice they are pretty likely to stick you in a janitors closest with a desk. I have worked in schools myself but as a clinical psychologist either contracted with the school district or at a private and expensive therapeutic boarding school.

To be fair, that thread was pretty grim and was indicative of a single case study. I'm not sure what the actual trend of the field is but if you're interested in working IN SCHOOLS, then school psych seems pretty reasonable since you'd be limiting yourself to the thing you want to do. However, it doesn't appear as though OP's main goals are to work in a school?? I could be wrong but that's the impression I got.

 

[foreverbull]

If you want to only work in schools and, for the most part, provide educational assessements/create education plans and occasional counseling (that's what school psychs do in my area), then school psych is the path to take. I'm not familiar with combined clinical/school programs, but each has a different licensure process (school psychs can't become licensed psychologists in my state--they become licensed educational psychologists, which limits how they practice, but if you do both, you have a separate process for obtaining training hours for each and separate credentials and fees for licensure).

You can work with kids/adolescents with a clinical or counseling degree; in fact, I started working with adolescents during my postdoc after I'd already graduated, so that is an option, although it'd be ideal to get practica sites working with children/adolescents during your grad program. You can opt to get training to work with kids/adolescents after you're licensed, as well, if you're willing to pay for supervision/training. If you do the combined program because you want to work in schools and want the flexibility of being a licensed psychologist, make sure you fully understand the requirements for licensure of both in your state.

 

[SchoolPsycho]

I'm a school psychologist and licensed psychologist who went through a fully funded school psych PHD program with a 100% APA match rate, AMA. I was the weird one in my program who actually wanted to work in schools instead of hospitals, clinics, or universities.

In my view, a degree is a means to an end. So to answer your question, think about what is at the end of the rainbow. If you are not certain of the type of setting and population you want to work with, and all else is equal (funding, match rates, etc.), then it behooves you to select the most flexible program. Clinical psychology is generally more flexible than school psychology.

That said, if you know what you want to do then school psychology can provide you with exactly the tools you need. The top school psychology programs are very good at preparing you for assessment and treatment of children and adolescents, especially from a behavioral perspective. Internships such as Kennedy Krieger, Munroe Meyer, and the Marcus Autism Center are examples of programs that love school psychologists. Of course, you can get this training in clinical programs too. School programs differ in that they sacrifice experience and training with adult patients for an emphasis in school-based assessment, academic interventions, and on individual and systems-level consultation - that is, changing adult behavior in order to impact child behavior. How can I get Mrs. Jones to stop belittling Jonny in front of his peers, and what would that mean for his anxiety? How can I get mom on board with setting up an effective bedtime routine? What should instruction look like for a student with autism or a learning disability? How can I get this district of 1000 teachers to implement evidence-based universal screening methods for reading problems, depression, and behavior disorders with high fidelity? How can we use all this screening data to develop tier 1 and tier 2 interventions to reduce the suicide rate and increase the graduation rate in our community?

Personally, I chose school psychology because I love behavioral consultation and I get to do it every day. I work in school districts because I see it as the best opportunity to provide interventions and supports to families who have a very hard time interfacing with the mental health community. I also like to work with sub-clinical populations who are still having a tough go of things, like a third grade teacher who struggles every day to get instructional control over his classroom. I can help with that, and make a meaningful and long-lasting difference in the lives of the teacher as well as every student in that classroom.

I think you need a reason why you would pick school over clinical psychology. But if you have that reason firmly established, then school psychology can be a very good choice.

 

[HopefulSchoolPsych]

I'm a school psychologist and licensed psychologist who went through a fully funded school psych PHD program with a 100% APA match rate, AMA. I was the weird one in my program who actually wanted to work in schools instead of hospitals, clinics, or universities.

In my view, a degree is a means to an end. So to answer your question, think about what is at the end of the rainbow. If you are not certain of the type of setting and population you want to work with, and all else is equal (funding, match rates, etc.), then it behooves you to select the most flexible program. Clinical psychology is generally more flexible than school psychology.

That said, if you know what you want to do then school psychology can provide you with exactly the tools you need. The top school psychology programs are very good at preparing you for assessment and treatment of children and adolescents, especially from a behavioral perspective. Internships such as Kennedy Krieger, Munroe Meyer, and the Marcus Autism Center are examples of programs that love school psychologists. Of course, you can get this training in clinical programs too. School programs differ in that they sacrifice experience and training with adult patients for an emphasis in school-based assessment, academic interventions, and on individual and systems-level consultation - that is, changing adult behavior in order to impact child behavior. How can I get Mrs. Jones to stop belittling Jonny in front of his peers, and what would that mean for his anxiety? How can I get mom on board with setting up an effective bedtime routine? What should instruction look like for a student with autism or a learning disability? How can I get this district of 1000 teachers to implement evidence-based universal screening methods for reading problems, depression, and behavior disorders with high fidelity? How can we use all this screening data to develop tier 1 and tier 2 interventions to reduce the suicide rate and increase the graduation rate in our community?

Personally, I chose school psychology because I love behavioral consultation and I get to do it every day. I work in school districts because I see it as the best opportunity to provide interventions and supports to families who have a very hard time interfacing with the mental health community. I also like to work with sub-clinical populations who are still having a tough go of things, like a third grade teacher who struggles every day to get instructional control over his classroom. I can help with that, and make a meaningful and long-lasting difference in the lives of the teacher as well as every student in that classroom.

I think you need a reason why you would pick school over clinical psychology. But if you have that reason firmly established, then school psychology can be a very good choice.

If you don't mind me asking, what school psych PhD program did you attend?

 

[pontocerebellar]

I'm a school psychologist and licensed psychologist who went through a fully funded school psych PHD program with a 100% APA match rate, AMA. I was the weird one in my program who actually wanted to work in schools instead of hospitals, clinics, or universities.

In my view, a degree is a means to an end. So to answer your question, think about what is at the end of the rainbow. If you are not certain of the type of setting and population you want to work with, and all else is equal (funding, match rates, etc.), then it behooves you to select the most flexible program. Clinical psychology is generally more flexible than school psychology.

That said, if you know what you want to do then school psychology can provide you with exactly the tools you need. The top school psychology programs are very good at preparing you for assessment and treatment of children and adolescents, especially from a behavioral perspective. Internships such as Kennedy Krieger, Munroe Meyer, and the Marcus Autism Center are examples of programs that love school psychologists. Of course, you can get this training in clinical programs too. School programs differ in that they sacrifice experience and training with adult patients for an emphasis in school-based assessment, academic interventions, and on individual and systems-level consultation - that is, changing adult behavior in order to impact child behavior. How can I get Mrs. Jones to stop belittling Jonny in front of his peers, and what would that mean for his anxiety? How can I get mom on board with setting up an effective bedtime routine? What should instruction look like for a student with autism or a learning disability? How can I get this district of 1000 teachers to implement evidence-based universal screening methods for reading problems, depression, and behavior disorders with high fidelity? How can we use all this screening data to develop tier 1 and tier 2 interventions to reduce the suicide rate and increase the graduation rate in our community?

Personally, I chose school psychology because I love behavioral consultation and I get to do it every day. I work in school districts because I see it as the best opportunity to provide interventions and supports to families who have a very hard time interfacing with the mental health community. I also like to work with sub-clinical populations who are still having a tough go of things, like a third grade teacher who struggles every day to get instructional control over his classroom. I can help with that, and make a meaningful and long-lasting difference in the lives of the teacher as well as every student in that classroom.

I think you need a reason why you would pick school over clinical psychology. But if you have that reason firmly established, then school psychology can be a very good choice.

School psych PhD candidate at a program with a 100% match rate about to head off to an accredited internship in pediatric neuropsychology at a large children's hospital. Also AMA! Feel free to message me directly. (And thanks so much for sharing your balanced perspective. I often see people who misunderstand our programs and what we can do with our degrees, but I've found that my program was the PERFECT fit for me and I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing.)